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How Do We Become A Top 6 Team?
Mendonca In Asdas
Posts: 22,650
I might be wrong, but apart from alphabetically, we haven’t been in the the top 6 since before a ball was kicked, at the start of the season.
So realistically how many transfer windows do we need to become a serious team to challenge for the top 2 / top 6, feels like same old, same old at the moment, lack of away wins, can’t keep a clean sheet, injury after injury etc, surely it has to change sometime.
I don’t want to have Wrexham and Millwall in our division next season, otherwise it will be another season wasted and down the Swanny.
So realistically how many transfer windows do we need to become a serious team to challenge for the top 2 / top 6, feels like same old, same old at the moment, lack of away wins, can’t keep a clean sheet, injury after injury etc, surely it has to change sometime.
I don’t want to have Wrexham and Millwall in our division next season, otherwise it will be another season wasted and down the Swanny.
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Comments
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Go down to League 2. Le Bosh26
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One of us has to win huge on euromillions1
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Better players.
Better coaching.
Better manager.
Probably takes 2/3 windows if we have no money and need to get lucky with some frees. Could take 1 window with owners willing to invest heavily.4 -
If we look at Barnsley as a potential top six team we probably don't have to do too much. I would say bring in a bit more physicality and don't rely on two players to get most of the goals. Of course we can do more to get even better but we are not far away IMO from being a top six team.3
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Start building a squad capable of achieving top six instead of stumbling from window to window with major overhauls. This window sign two quality permanent signings. In the summer sign four more. Next January we should then be close.0
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Shift the dead wood. Identify talent better, that includes players already at the club as well as new signings. Convince everyone to pull together as a team. Ensure we've always got at least one player on the pitch who scares the hell out of the opposition (and his own teammates for that matter).1
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Consistency in management and coaching
Consistent style/method of play while retaining flexibility
Better balance in the squad
Cautious use of academy players
More experienced senior but not over the hill players
More leadership on the pitch
Improved management of fitness and injury
Long term realistic squad planning
Investment in players who can potentially play above league one
Better use of the incoming loan market
Better pitches and facilities at Sparrows Lane such as pitch drainage and indoor training facilities
Better, bigger and broader scouting of opponents and potential signings.
Better use of outgoing loans so young players go to higher level clubs where they can develop
I think it's more than just "sign better players". Those better players need to come into a functional, not the often in recent times dysfunctional, set up so they have the best chance to impact on performances.
It's a team game and we need to build a "team" not just a group of talented individuals.30 -
Start as a premiership team and wait.11
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Flooding with cash.0
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By finishing above the team in 7th
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Join a league with 6 teams in it32
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Get better players and a better squad0
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Buy Poleon from Ebbsfleet in Jan.0
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Probably need to be able beat even the half-decent teams at this level. Not beaten anyone in the top half yet. Appleton hasn’t beaten anyone above 17th and 4 of his 5 wins were against teams in the bottom 7 at home…3 -
We are yet to play 6 of the top 7 at home though, so if we can keep our home form good then that could be a way for us to gain ground on themNabySarr said:Probably need to be able beat even the half-decent teams at this level. Not beaten anyone in the top half yet. Appleton hasn’t beaten anyone above 17th and 4 of his 5 wins were against teams in the bottom 7 at home…1 -
I think it's basically just recruitment. All you need is one good summer. We've proved that before and other teams have done the same recently. Wigan signed 22 players and went up.
Next season I think there are only about 8 senior players still contracted. There's an opportunity there to build a proper team.
We also have the added problem of keeping our recruited players fit. Surely by law of averages, we're due a 4-5 season run without having a single player injured.5 -
Similar has been said every summer for a number of years now and yet we're still mid-table.Chunes said:I think a lot of factors can be overplayed. It's basically just recruitment. All we need is one good summer. We've proved that before and other teams have done the same recently.
Next season I think there are only about 8 senior players still contracted. There's an opportunity there to build a proper team.
Yes, recruitment has to improve but what does that mean? Spending more isn't enough if the manager is changed a few weeks later, if the players are injured soon after joining or are asked to play out of position because the squad isn't balanced and includes players bought by the last three managers.
I think the problems go a lot deeper and go right to the top of the club and have for some time.
That has left a lot of what should be basic infrastructure, physical and organisational, lacking.
Sort that and the better/better suited players that arrive plus the good academy players will have an fertile environment in which to thrive.
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A lot of the 'infrastructure' was poor under RD, and arguably a lot poorer than it is now. In 2018 he even stopped giving water to the youth players and yet in 2019 LB got us promoted. All he had was a good squad.Henry Irving said:
Similar has been said every summer for a number of years now and yet we're still mid-table.Chunes said:I think a lot of factors can be overplayed. It's basically just recruitment. All we need is one good summer. We've proved that before and other teams have done the same recently.
Next season I think there are only about 8 senior players still contracted. There's an opportunity there to build a proper team.
Yes, recruitment has to improve but what does that mean? Spending more isn't enough if the manager is changed a few weeks later, if the players are injured soon after joining or are asked to play out of position because the squad isn't balanced and includes players bought by the last three managers.
I think the problems go a lot deeper and go right to the top of the club and have for some time.
That has left a lot of what should be basic infrastructure, physical and organisational, lacking.
Sort that and the better/better suited players that arrive plus the good academy players will have an fertile environment in which to thrive.
I feel like a lot of these things (although they no doubt play their role) are often used as an excuse by club management.
I wouldn't argue about signings players to fit one system them hiring a manager who plays another. But again, all you need is a one good summer.1 -
Look at what happened to us and to Wigan (your other example) and to teams like Sheffield Wednesday this season. One good summer or good players can get you up, but you won’t progress long term and unless you get the rest of it right you’ll end up straight back down againChunes said:
A lot of the 'infrastructure' was poor under RD, and arguably a lot poorer than it is now. In 2018 he even stopped giving water to the youth players and yet in 2019 LB got us promoted. All he had was a good squad.Henry Irving said:
Similar has been said every summer for a number of years now and yet we're still mid-table.Chunes said:I think a lot of factors can be overplayed. It's basically just recruitment. All we need is one good summer. We've proved that before and other teams have done the same recently.
Next season I think there are only about 8 senior players still contracted. There's an opportunity there to build a proper team.
Yes, recruitment has to improve but what does that mean? Spending more isn't enough if the manager is changed a few weeks later, if the players are injured soon after joining or are asked to play out of position because the squad isn't balanced and includes players bought by the last three managers.
I think the problems go a lot deeper and go right to the top of the club and have for some time.
That has left a lot of what should be basic infrastructure, physical and organisational, lacking.
Sort that and the better/better suited players that arrive plus the good academy players will have an fertile environment in which to thrive.
I feel like a lot of these things (although they no doubt play their role) are often used as an excuse by club management.
I wouldn't argue about signings players to fit one system them hiring a manager who plays another. But again, all you need is a one good summer.3 - Sponsored links:
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Get more points than the bottom 18 teams.0
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I agree the club needs to get the next window right after promotion. At the same time, we were very unlucky to come back down again. I'm sure it's not worth going into the situations at Wigan & Sheff Weds. Chris Powell also did it in one big summer.NabySarr said:
Look at what happened to us and to Wigan (your other example) and to teams like Sheffield Wednesday this season. One good summer or good players can get you up, but you won’t progress long term and unless you get the rest of it right you’ll end up straight back down againChunes said:
A lot of the 'infrastructure' was poor under RD, and arguably a lot poorer than it is now. In 2018 he even stopped giving water to the youth players and yet in 2019 LB got us promoted. All he had was a good squad.Henry Irving said:
Similar has been said every summer for a number of years now and yet we're still mid-table.Chunes said:I think a lot of factors can be overplayed. It's basically just recruitment. All we need is one good summer. We've proved that before and other teams have done the same recently.
Next season I think there are only about 8 senior players still contracted. There's an opportunity there to build a proper team.
Yes, recruitment has to improve but what does that mean? Spending more isn't enough if the manager is changed a few weeks later, if the players are injured soon after joining or are asked to play out of position because the squad isn't balanced and includes players bought by the last three managers.
I think the problems go a lot deeper and go right to the top of the club and have for some time.
That has left a lot of what should be basic infrastructure, physical and organisational, lacking.
Sort that and the better/better suited players that arrive plus the good academy players will have an fertile environment in which to thrive.
I feel like a lot of these things (although they no doubt play their role) are often used as an excuse by club management.
I wouldn't argue about signings players to fit one system them hiring a manager who plays another. But again, all you need is a one good summer.
Over the last four seasons we've frequently been outperformed by clubs with far less resources than us, not because they have more/better infrastructure, but because our recruitment has been poor. We signed people like Stockley, Innis & Gilbey (take your pick, many more) to be key players for a promotion campaign, when they were barely good enough for League One.
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Stop gambling on sick note players and it will make team selection a question of picking the best players rather than those available. Then we might get some consistency in performances. We're like a kite dancing in a hurricane every season at the moment.
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Don’t think we are massively far away tbh. Losing some of the dead wood is the most important thing, but for me it’s two key changes in attack and defence.
Attack:1) Sign someone who can take a decent set piece.2) Keep Aneke fit/ sign someone who can hold the ball up top.
Defence:
1) An intelligent defender with strong leadership skill at the back, who can organise and handle pressure which can turn 1-1s into 1-0 wins.
2) Sign a CM who can partner Dobson who is defensively minded. A young Josh Cullen would transform us over night.We aren’t miles away, but none of those 4 players will be found on the free transfer/loan market. Will need to spend to sign quality.0 -
That’s a great chart Naby thanks1
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As a few posters have already said, and @Henry Irving nailed it, consistency of players & management. In essence......
Find a good manager
Sign players on 3 year contracts (or 2 with a clause on our favour)
Loan players as fillers to make up a squad, not mainstays like JRS was. Very few loan players stay past their loan period...some dont even stay after January.
Stop the churn.
Sign the best players from League One, not the worst (or injured) from Championship.
Dont rely on the yoof. Stand outs like Gomez & Shelvey are rare. The norm are Lapslie & Morgan.
Spend money.
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Get a competent recruitment team.
Bring in 6-10 decent players.
One window.
None of this slow build nonsense because a) the best players leave and you never get there and b) we lose way too much money so our owners get fed up too quickly for slow builds.
Done.4 -
well said - i've said the same myself many times - a good manager and good players and it can be done in one window as LB and CP provedChunes said:
A lot of the 'infrastructure' was poor under RD, and arguably a lot poorer than it is now. In 2018 he even stopped giving water to the youth players and yet in 2019 LB got us promoted. All he had was a good squad.Henry Irving said:
Similar has been said every summer for a number of years now and yet we're still mid-table.Chunes said:I think a lot of factors can be overplayed. It's basically just recruitment. All we need is one good summer. We've proved that before and other teams have done the same recently.
Next season I think there are only about 8 senior players still contracted. There's an opportunity there to build a proper team.
Yes, recruitment has to improve but what does that mean? Spending more isn't enough if the manager is changed a few weeks later, if the players are injured soon after joining or are asked to play out of position because the squad isn't balanced and includes players bought by the last three managers.
I think the problems go a lot deeper and go right to the top of the club and have for some time.
That has left a lot of what should be basic infrastructure, physical and organisational, lacking.
Sort that and the better/better suited players that arrive plus the good academy players will have an fertile environment in which to thrive.
I feel like a lot of these things (although they no doubt play their role) are often used as an excuse by club management.
I wouldn't argue about signings players to fit one system them hiring a manager who plays another. But again, all you need is a one good summer.0 -
I remember pondering this question back in 97.....and then we signed Mendonca.
I'm many ways we've already signed his modern day equivalent. Just need a Manager that can assemble a side to get the very best out of him.2 -
not necessarily - in LB and CP's case they had the rug pulled from them once promoted - if they had been left to get on with what they were doing with just some reasonable backing they would have been fineNabySarr said:
Look at what happened to us and to Wigan (your other example) and to teams like Sheffield Wednesday this season. One good summer or good players can get you up, but you won’t progress long term and unless you get the rest of it right you’ll end up straight back down againChunes said:
A lot of the 'infrastructure' was poor under RD, and arguably a lot poorer than it is now. In 2018 he even stopped giving water to the youth players and yet in 2019 LB got us promoted. All he had was a good squad.Henry Irving said:
Similar has been said every summer for a number of years now and yet we're still mid-table.Chunes said:I think a lot of factors can be overplayed. It's basically just recruitment. All we need is one good summer. We've proved that before and other teams have done the same recently.
Next season I think there are only about 8 senior players still contracted. There's an opportunity there to build a proper team.
Yes, recruitment has to improve but what does that mean? Spending more isn't enough if the manager is changed a few weeks later, if the players are injured soon after joining or are asked to play out of position because the squad isn't balanced and includes players bought by the last three managers.
I think the problems go a lot deeper and go right to the top of the club and have for some time.
That has left a lot of what should be basic infrastructure, physical and organisational, lacking.
Sort that and the better/better suited players that arrive plus the good academy players will have an fertile environment in which to thrive.
I feel like a lot of these things (although they no doubt play their role) are often used as an excuse by club management.
I wouldn't argue about signings players to fit one system them hiring a manager who plays another. But again, all you need is a one good summer.2
