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POST MATCH THREAD : Charlton Athletic Vs Oxford Utd : Monday 1st January 2024 : KO 15:00
Comments
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The thing I hate about all this, ‘at least they were competitive stuff’ (not aimed at you or anyone who’s mentioned it) is that it’s taken this bad a run for them to show they’re willing to put the extra effort in, or it appears so, as many people have picked up on it. It’s such a crock of crap because the effort should be there every bloody week so you don’t notice them ‘busting a gut’ etcRodneyCharltonTrotta said:LargeAddick said:My only complaints were the non sensical subs. Thomas was an effort to protect a point and it immediately backfired and we are then chasing the game with a left footed centre half at right back with a right back on the bench. Then taking off CBT to bring on Casey, I mean WTF? Not a game to bring Casey on. Keep CBT up front and give that a go. Kanu didn't look as shattered as Anderson or Campbell so why not keep Kanu on and stick someone up top alongside him? And what has Watson done wrong? Shagged Apples missus? I don't care if he's going back tomorrow he should at least have come off the bench today, he is forward thinking and can pick out a pass. I thought the subs were all wrong. Apples got it wrong. He's got to go. I've zero faith in him getting us out of this league, ever.
Other than that I've no real complaints. Every one of them put in the required committment, busted every gut, tried their best but some are not good enough whilst others not experienced enough. The players were not to blame today.
There was a moment in second half when Tyreece Campbell ran chasing a ball with the grit and determination of an olympic 100m final sprinter which underlined that along with players like Watson and Jones smashing into tackles and throwing themselves in front of shots.
Can't fault the players today generally although Fraser's corner was abysmal when you're paid to play football.
Could tell with about 20 mins to go we weren't up for winning it whereas Oxford were. A lack of confidence compounded by a lack of ability throughout the team.
Need a solid couple of windows to change things and make us competitive in this league.
and it’s not just about competing. Effort comes in many ways. When you’ve got a defence as Manilow pointed out that are all of an age and experience that we have, then it’s not about chasing down players, it’s about putting the effort in to make sure you defend better both individually and as a unit. Just because a player looks like they’re harrying and hassling, anybody can do that. Put me on the pitch and I’ll run around and make myself look busy. Effort at that level is working on your mistakes, studying the opposition, doing extra training when we go on this sort of a run. If you’re someone like Hector, our ‘rolls Royce of a player at this level 🤢’ what’s he doing with his colleagues at the back in the whole context of where we are as a club. I don’t just want to see, ‘oh, so and so is chasing harder, ergo we’re competing more.’
you do that as standard5 -
I'd like Bowyer back with Curbs on the board, doing a bit of directing.
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Yet another painful watch.
Tactics are not working - we are incredibly predictable and very easy to deal with. Even if May was in the team today, almost every team knows all they need to do is to double/triple up on CB-T and we offer no threat. Our goal naturally came when they gave CB-T space, and then they smartened up shortly after, rode the storm and punished our defensive frailty on our left with a goal of their own. Whatever this system is supposed to be, I just feel it has been figured out by teams up and down the league.
Without Aneke (or Leaburn - but I still don't think he really cuts it as the only one up front YET imho), the whole system falls apart. With May being your main man, you should be building around him and this necessitates having 2 up front - either playing him in the 10 or right of the 3 isn't a good fit, and it's credit to him that he has made it work. Kanu is obviously trying, but he could be man-marked by experienced players who dealt with him all day. This cascades into trying to force in (the appaling today) Fraser or other square pegs. Adding in all the various injuries and trying to make the likes of Anderson, C Campbell or any of the other U23s into our midfield just means we get torn apart.
There are some underperformers - T Campbell has less than zero confidence right now, Edun can't defend properly and Fraser is just not someone you can rely on. However, the system sets them up to fail and this is why I struggle to defend Appleton. I don't think it is this, but to any cynical fan, it feels like he is setting the team up like this to fail and prove a point to Scott about how bad the squad is. Serving up this toothless, aimless football with minimal threat and nullifying football when we cannot defend is painful to watch. We can't even park the bus because we are so poor defensively.
I want Appleton to switch it up, do something different. Play 3 at the back. Play 2 up front. Don't just do the same f***ing thing and expect a different result. Don't just blame the injuries or fatigue - other teams are dealing with it, you have what you have and you have to make it work until numbers can get through the door. We're hurting and it's quite clear that we risk getting dragged down the table even further if we can't beat the teams below us at home.10 -
Meh - just same old, same old
But here is something that hit me today (and older CL’s will out do me here)
Dad first took me 1976 - we went down to Div 3 in 79/80 - but bounced back next season - so between 1976 and 2008 I only watched Charlton in Div 3 for one season
Since 2008 I have watched Charlton in Div 3 for ……… just depressing5 -
You could tell from 60+ minutes that we would lose. I bet 90% of the crowd could see it, but still Appleton does nothing.5
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I would axe Fraser until he learned how to be a footballer and use his brain, he has become a luxury player who cannot even take a corner kick, these are the signs IMHO of a player who is no longer fighting for the cause of the club and not prepared to roll up his sleeves to get his hands dirty!
It is not fair for the fans who are putting in their hard-earned cash to watch the effort of individuals like Fraser!
Fraser is clearly a sulker and thinks he is too big for this club, so get rid along with MA!!!4 -
That’s got to be his next career move then to Spain as a Matador! All he needed was a cape 🤬SELR_addicks said:
Fraser actively moves out of the way to let him past.Croydon said:
How much time do we want to give their man??
Would need to see a different angle of it, but could AMB have done better with their goal? He looks to take an age to get over.
Fineable that.4 -
Honestly I'd rather have Albie Morgan back in the side than Fraser...
At least Morgan could stick a foot in when required. Always looked to try things and worked his nuts off.
However neither are promotion material and we don't have the option so may as well be L.Watson15 -
This is what I meant every match preview every week, that the game is a 'must win'. Some folks thought that was ridiculous and in some way piling on pressure.cabbles said:
The thing I hate about all this, ‘at least they were competitive stuff’ (not aimed at you or anyone who’s mentioned it) is that it’s taken this bad a run for them to show they’re willing to put the extra effort in, or it appears so, as many people have picked up on it. It’s such a crock of crap because the effort should be there every bloody week so you don’t notice them ‘busting a gut’ etcRodneyCharltonTrotta said:LargeAddick said:My only complaints were the non sensical subs. Thomas was an effort to protect a point and it immediately backfired and we are then chasing the game with a left footed centre half at right back with a right back on the bench. Then taking off CBT to bring on Casey, I mean WTF? Not a game to bring Casey on. Keep CBT up front and give that a go. Kanu didn't look as shattered as Anderson or Campbell so why not keep Kanu on and stick someone up top alongside him? And what has Watson done wrong? Shagged Apples missus? I don't care if he's going back tomorrow he should at least have come off the bench today, he is forward thinking and can pick out a pass. I thought the subs were all wrong. Apples got it wrong. He's got to go. I've zero faith in him getting us out of this league, ever.
Other than that I've no real complaints. Every one of them put in the required committment, busted every gut, tried their best but some are not good enough whilst others not experienced enough. The players were not to blame today.
There was a moment in second half when Tyreece Campbell ran chasing a ball with the grit and determination of an olympic 100m final sprinter which underlined that along with players like Watson and Jones smashing into tackles and throwing themselves in front of shots.
Can't fault the players today generally although Fraser's corner was abysmal when you're paid to play football.
Could tell with about 20 mins to go we weren't up for winning it whereas Oxford were. A lack of confidence compounded by a lack of ability throughout the team.
Need a solid couple of windows to change things and make us competitive in this league.
and it’s not just about competing. Effort comes in many ways. When you’ve got a defence as Manilow pointed out that are all of an age and experience that we have, then it’s not about chasing down players, it’s about putting the effort in to make sure you defend better both individually and as a unit. Just because a player looks like they’re harrying and hassling, anybody can do that. Put me on the pitch and I’ll run around and make myself look busy. Effort at that level is working on your mistakes, studying the opposition, doing extra training when we go on this sort of a run. If you’re someone like Hector, our ‘rolls Royce of a player at this level 🤢’ what’s he doing with his colleagues at the back in the whole context of where we are as a club. I don’t just want to see, ‘oh, so and so is chasing harder, ergo we’re competing more.’
you do that as standard
Having a no biggie attitude has taken us to where we are today, not from the fans I might add.
We will get more of the 'give such and such a chance blah blah blah' because of the January window.
No.
Win at Port Vale and every match after that. Is that ask too much for the delicate sensibilities of those at the club?
Realism is such a drag right now.1 -
Absolutely, Edun is a weak link in the side. Not the only one but clearly one.peterreeves said:We can all forgive some players who at least try.. Take Alfie, no wonder he's done his back in it's because he's been carrying most of the squad.
Overall my take on today and the season so far.... Tennai had his best game alongside Jones too.
Hector was better but there's always a cock up in him like the goal with being on the wrong side but I didn't think Edun did enough to close down the winger, in fact Edun for me is the weak link, he gives way too much space to the opposing player and couldn't close a shop door in my opinion.
CBT is a complete enigma, first half threatening, second half didn't come out.
Dobbo looks knackered and completely fed up and needs help in midfield but he may leave anyway.
Kanu, Anderson and Tyreece need to go to League 2 like Aaron Henry.
Tedic needs to go back to City, LWatson is probably going back anyway and Chem probably should go back.
So by my rough count we need at least 6 or 7 players in the hope that Alfie will be back soon along with McAmbles and Camera at the end of the month. I'm excluding Chucks as who knows when he's back and more importantly for how long.
Apples has used all the excuses up and should be on the next bus along with Scotty as I wouldn't trust either of them with a pen let alone a cheque book.
Give Pearce the baton for the remainder and let's see what happens.
However, this is Charlton so it will be just three signings and all the buddies get to keep there jobs.
Not a brilliant time to be a fan.3 - Sponsored links:
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Took a deflection. Very harsh to blame him at all.Croydon said:
How much time do we want to give their man??
Would need to see a different angle of it, but could AMB have done better with their goal? He looks to take an age to get over.4 -
And why, out of all the players, the manager, the recruitment team and the ownership, you repeatedly single out CBT as the cause of all our woes? Bizarre.LargeAddick said:
Why am I not surprised that you are the first and only person to mention a possible penalty? Why is that di you think?RonnieMoore said:Very difficult to take again did not deserve to lose , what a strike for the goal 25 yard out and right in the corner , this was just after we should have had pen when a clear foul on Hector especially as the ref had spoke to the defender seconds before about holding … but this was a young side with very little on the bench to change things in fact two 16 year olds came on .. not sure what people think MA can do without 9 players….. again not much wrong with performance if Oxford are 5th best team in today showing not much between these sides and when they start pretending to be injured to time waste against our kids that tells you all you need to know… but again it was all about the wingers , CBT allowed his man to attack our box Edun had two men , perfect cross something CBT and T Campbell wasted time and time again
MOM T Watson was suberb
And defend Apples all you like, those were abysmal substitutions and that's on him.3 -
For the first goal not the second. The first shows, not for the first time, that he cannot understand that the six yard box has to be his responsibility, he should be diving at the strikers feet not rooted to his line.Croydon said:
How much time do we want to give their man??
Would need to see a different angle of it, but could AMB have done better with their goal? He looks to take an age to get over.1 -
Honestly, I think Fraser just doesn't really care that much - this is just a paid gig at a club that he cares little for and, play well or not, he still gets paid. Absolutely just going through the motions. I've had questions about his fitness and desire to track/defend since day one, and he does little to even justify the "luxury" tag any more. Luxury suggests that you might see some magic, but I just think his legs are gone and the magic won't ever come back. He's doesn't fit alongside Dobson, and doesn't fit if May plays as 10.
I just think either the body or mind is willing at this point, and I'll be astonished if we ever see form again from him anywhere near what the expectation. Only thing in his favour right now is his age and experience, and even then, he's played worse than the younger players on the regular.5 -
Thought the players gave their all today but weren’t good enough. Again we had good opportunities to score a second goal but always chose the wrong option of passing or shooting. TC was through with CBT and Kanu in the box but shot over the bat, CBT and both Campbells got in good positions but their final pass or cross was crap, C Campbell has a free header in the box and put it wide.Could see after an hour that Anderson was knackered but he wasn’t substituted.
Anderson at fault for their first goal letting the ball bounce over him and constantly lost the ball throughout the match.
Thought Hector defended well apart from his poor marking for their first goal but his passing was erratic at best.Jones defended well but he slows down our play at the back and his passing is slow and rarely in front of a team mate.
Dobson, Watson, Edou and Hector put in some big tackles and brave blocks.
Kanu worked his socks off but needed someone playing closer to him.
CBT done a few good bits but then doesn’t track back and looks disinterested and rarely puts any form of tackle in.
Both fullbacks look better going forward than defending.
TC was better today but not the player he was at the start of the season3 -
eastterrace6168 said:wake up and smell the coffee it’s all down to Appleton.Not all down to Apples, we have now got 4 centre forwards out FOUR, Chuks, Alfie, Miles, and Tedic, as highlighted by Curbs, the team is too young, and we are playing kids everywhere, because we have no choice, the team is knackered and dejected because of lack of experience, so not all down to him.
We desperately need some new faces and quickly or yes things will continue on the downward spiral...
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eastterrace6168 said:wake up and smell the coffee it’s all down to Appleton.Not all down to Apples, we have now got 4 centre forwards out FOUR, Chuks, Alfie, Miles, and Tedic, as highlighted by Curbs, the team is too young, and we are playing kids everywhere, because we have no choice, the team is knackered and dejected because of lack of experience, so not all down to him.
We desperately need some new faces and quickly or yes things will continue on the downward spiral...
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agreed about the keeper, would have taken a good save but that is (supposedly) what he's paid forCroydon said:
How much time do we want to give their man??
Would need to see a different angle of it, but could AMB have done better with their goal? He looks to take an age to get over.0 -
Not seen the first again but think that’s harsh on AMB. Hector was at fault for that. Edun maybe could have done a bit better but even so it was a great ball inside him and the winger put in a very good cross. Goals against happen and in the grand scheme of things that was a long, long way from being the worst we have conceded this season.Bailey said:
For the first goal not the second. The first shows, not for the first time, that he cannot understand that the six yard box has to be his responsibility, he should be diving at the strikers feet not rooted to his line.Croydon said:
How much time do we want to give their man??
Would need to see a different angle of it, but could AMB have done better with their goal? He looks to take an age to get over.4 -
Utterly depressing.
Yet SO predictable.
Most concerning on a personal note was that I sat on my settee, Oil of Olbas, tissues and soothing throat sweets to hand when we scored....Oh, and the not so lucky humbugs.
....and didn't celebrate in any shape or form. Not even a croaky " YEEESSSSS!"
Why, you may ask.
Because I knew that we'd be unable to hold on to that lead, with a much needed 3 points relinquished yet again and another step in the downwards spiral we're seemingly unable to stop.
Whilst admitting that there were more positives to take from today's performance than the previous 2 put together, especially from young Tyreece who seemed to have his mojo back, the overall picture still shows that we've lost the ability to maintain any semblance of a team that can seriously compete over 90+ minutes.
I find it difficult to put a finger on specific inadequacies but maybe others can confidently state that it's the defence...others that it's the midfield.....and we're all too aware of the issues with strikers especially when Alfie is missing or played out of his most influential position. A high percentage of the games of late is that said issues can so readily spread like wildfire actoss the rest of the team.
But, just as concerning as this malaise is the question that appears to divide the faithful.
How can this soul destroying situation be turned around before our beloved club slips ever further into the abyss ?
I've posted my thoughts on here already - before today's defeat and I saw nothing this afternoon to change that view.
Of course, we have a ridiculous number of injured squad players. And, partly as a result, an unnatural number of U21s in the matchday squad. In addition, "old heads"/leaders on the pitch are in short supply ....and at times during a match, Inevitably it shows.
Then there is the question asked often by Lifers ...."What do they do on the training field ?"
And last, but by no means least is the "R" factor.
Recruitment....of both the manager and the players.And whether the right man for the job is in situ ?
So, is there a common denominator here ?
IMO it basically comes down to budget- money if you like, in the case of our club.
And what price those with their hands on the purse strings put on a manager who will, on past experience & reputation take our club forwards, whose input to the purchase of players in his squad will be paramount, whose choice of those in his management team will be agreed and who will be given a contract long enough to prove himself & his methods.
We know that JJ had a clause in his contract regarding the position in the league where he would be safe in his managerial role under TS. Not ideal but maybe something for the SMT/owners to consider as a reasonable inclusion for their choice to replace MA , after perhaps 2 years ? But really I know nothing as I'm always happy to point out.
What I DO know is that something has to change before it's too late.
That means now.13 - Sponsored links:
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Perspective my arse. I never bet against Charlton and I lose many more bets than I win, but I stuck money on Oxford at 5-1 with 10 minutes to go because it was bloody obvious what was going to happen!MarcusH26 said:
if that “wonder goal” had not have miraculously gone past Pat Jennings mk 2’s sprawling wrong glove, I’m pretty convinced that, given that we were parked on the edge of our area all half, Oxford’s 3rd XI would have manufactured a way to get another of their attempts to get past his wall-like presence between the sticks.2 -
Isn't he a mate of scotts ? I doubt that he had any "searching" questions to answerOakster2 said:What was Appleton’s response during the job interview when he surely was asked how do you, like all managers have to at some point, get through an injury crisis? What’s your plan that makes you different from all the other candidates?1 -
I liked Michael Appleton when he captained and opened the batting for England, I even enjoy his Test Match commentary. Sadly he seems a different guy since he surprisingly got the job as a football manager at Charlton, who are well known for leaving no stone unturned and make money no object when they are searching for the greatest manager available - as we can see with the last 5. I’m starting to think football isn’t really his game.11
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I actually thought the starting 11 did well and put in a lot of effort. Started the game putting pressure on everything that Oxford did, snapping into tackles. T Watson hammered into one of theirs quite early, I didn't know he had it in him.
T Watson had his best game for us so far, if he could turn that performance in regularly we have a decent player, let's hope it is a marker. T Campbell looked back to his best, thought he played really well and very surprised at some comments on here about how he should be on loan, sent over a few lovely crosses, including one to Chem Campbell in both halves I thought he should have done better with. Kanu worked his socks off with little service and does need to be on loan like he was, hopefully Southend will have him back once we have shores up in January. Chem Campbell, despite being a bit profligate was excellent, great running with the ball and persistence - a complete mystery as to why Apple's binned him for so long. Dobbo was back to his best at least first 60mins. We were decent.
The issue was Edun, CBT and Jones were weak as piss on the left hand side defensively (Jones overall was ok but assume he is a natural Right CB as he was just leaving too big a gap to Edun all the time to start). The first chance Oxford had that AMB saved there was a yawning gap between Jones and Edun and we had a warning. Apples did nothing to solve it, and hey presto the next time they scored. After the goal it seemed to be sorted but that was too late.
Then on 65/70mins we were dead on our feet, I thought to myself that nothing I had seen this season meant we would not concede. Anderson (who gave everything, hassled, hurried and really worked hard) was done and needed to come off to regain a midfield foothold, Watson was the blatant sub on. Anderson stayed on.
With Oxford really needing the win they were pulling forward and I thought there was half a chance we could hit them in the break with some pace. Apples took off CBT with his pace and replaced him with Fraser. Two minutes later Fraser steps out of the Oxford players way and it's 2-1 (great strike but scandalous amount of space after all that work).
On 88 mins, Apples moves again, off comes our lone striker and on comes a young 18 yr old for his debut. Upfront. On his own. Against a tonne of defenders by now. Just a nonsense decision, bring him on, sure but have 2 upfront.
Then on 90mins we get a corner, Chem Campbell had taken superb corners in the first half, hitting the danger area each time, before he can take it, Apples strikes again, hauls him off for Rylah and Fraser wanders over to stick the corner out of play. Even after that we win another after great persistence from T Campbell and Fraser can't clear the first man in 2 efforts.
Those subs said to me Apples wants out, wants to be sacked and actively worked against the team.
If I was one of the starting 11 who sweated, harried, blocked and threw everything at that and watched as Apples left L Watson on the bench because of some, I can only assume, pathetic falling out, I would be absolutely livid. If I was Dobbo it would push me closer to the door.
Apples was solely to blame for that today.17 -
801912601 said:Thought the players gave their all today but weren’t good enough. Again we had good opportunities to score a second goal but always chose the wrong option of passing or shooting. TC was through with CBT and Kanu in the box but shot over the bat, CBT and both Campbells got in good positions but their final pass or cross was crap, C Campbell has a free header in the box and put it wide.Could see after an hour that Anderson was knackered but he wasn’t substituted.
Anderson at fault for their first goal letting the ball bounce over him and constantly lost the ball throughout the match.
Thought Hector defended well apart from his poor marking for their first goal but his passing was erratic at best.Jones defended well but he slows down our play at the back and his passing is slow and rarely in front of a team mate.
Dobson, Watson, Edou and Hector put in some big tackles and brave blocks.
Kanu worked his socks off but needed someone playing closer to him.
CBT done a few good bits but then doesn’t track back and looks disinterested and rarely puts any form of tackle in.
Both fullbacks look better going forward than defending.
TC was better today but not the player he was at the start of the season
AMB saved that chance.2 -
Dream on Golfie ( & I know the comment is tongue in cheek) appleton has downsized it in his interview with "hoping to bring in 1or 2 new players"golfaddick said:PWR......
mainly because I've be waiting for a for a bus for an hour. Finally discovered it was on a route diversion so didnt come down Charlton Church Lane instead just carried on merrily past Charlton Village onto the Royal Standard.
And that folks is why I hate public transport & will always drive a car.
.......
Onto the football.
Wasn't anything less than I expected but very sanguine about it all as I'm reassured by Scott that we will be bringing in a load of new players & Appleton has reassured us that he is a good manager given the tools.
So.....all aboard the Apple train.0 -
Off who, Dobson?MuttleyCAFC said:
Took a deflection. Very harsh to blame him at all.Croydon said:
How much time do we want to give their man??
Would need to see a different angle of it, but could AMB have done better with their goal? He looks to take an age to get over.0 -
I clapped the players off today, Appleton lost us that, not them8
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The heartbreaking thing for myself is what is this continual failure is doing to our clubs future, as I have witnessed my young nephew go from living & breathing Charlton in his first full season to now I worry when season ticket renewal time comes around he will not want to come again next season.
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I think every post here tonight has been a negative, and not without reason. I'm therefore posting a few positives as it wasn't all that bad, was it? Here goes:
- Not much traffic about today so the journey to The Valley was very quick and easy.
- The Belvedere Cob is back in the middle of its roundabout - no more Goodbye Horse.
- As the A206 sped its way past Thamesmead, there was an opportunity to witness Europe's largest collection of unused traffic cones. About three miles of them closing off one lane of traffic for no reason whatsoever. Normally this would be incredibly frustrating, but with the low traffic levels, it just added to the heightened sense of speed.
- Roadworks meant that we had the rare opportunity to go 'the wrong way' past Plumstead Bus Garage. As we turned the corner we were rewarded with stunning views, from a better angle than usual, of the beautiful gold dome on the Woolwich Mosque.
- Lack of crowds at Charlton meant that parking was easy. I got the plum spot right at the bottom of the Eastmoor Street steps.
- The builders have done a magnificent job of restoring the facia of The Victoria Pub. It looks good enough to go in. And, you'll be able to soon - if you like grossly overpriced pizza.
- Had time to enjoy a drink with my son in the north stand. I've got to say, it's the tastiest pint of line cleaner I've had since I was last at The Valley.
- The gentleman who served us at the bar was a cripplingly-shy, socially-inept mute, who hated his job and the customers and resented the fact that he had to be there on a bank holiday. The great thing about this was that the distinct lack of friendly chit-chat, or in fact anything that could be broadly described as communication, meant that not one unnecessary nanosecond was wasted talking to people and there was consequently no queue.
- Prior to going out, I found amongst my clothes an old string vest that I'd only ever worn once before; to dress up as Rab C. Nesbitt for a fancy dress party. I thought, 'what the heck', and slipped it on. With my moobian protuberances snuggled within the fishnet-like material, I felt as snug as you like all afternoon. I've always scoffed at such things before. But it worked a treat and I suspect will fast become required apparel.
- It was ever so nice of the Oxford fans to pay tribute to our own Trotter family with a blow up doll.
- For the most part the first XI played ok, until Mickey upset the Applecart and ruined it for us.
- The rain that was persistent for most of the second half eased up in time to allow us to walk back to the car. Most Charlton fans were walking about with storm clouds over their heads, but at least they stayed dry.
- Another really quick and easy journey home.
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