Never heard the term spelunking before so was keen to look it up (especially as you wrote it @Carter) as I thought I’d learn about a debauched activity.
Was quite disappointed when I found out the meaning!
Why does anyone have the need to inhale smoke into their lungs?
You could say this about many things though.
Why do some people drink themselves into oblivion? Why does half the world stick powder up their nose? Why does anyone have the need to take crystal meth? Why do some people go cave diving? Why do some of these influencers feel the need to jump from building to building with a risk of falling and dying? Why do some people spend a fortune each year traveling around the country watching Charlton?
I'm afraid the genie is well and truly out of the vaping bottle in the UK. It was always utter madness to allow them to be consumed without a prescription as a controlled aid to quitting smoking, and we are already reaping the rewards. There's a reason big tobacco started piling investment into these products years ago.
It's all very well suggesting these things can be sold to adults in a controlled manner but that requires adequate resources to do so, which aren't there by some distance. It ignores the long term impact of ingesting any chemicals into the lungs, let alone on a child's lungs.
Lots of them are dangerous from a product safety point of view, oversized, without the appropriate warnings and marketed at children. They're also an environmental disaster and antisocial with it.
The UK is swamped with non-compliant vapes and if stocks are seized, they are replaced within hours because much of the market is operated by OCG's as it's very profitable, especially when there's no tax paid, a great way to launder money and carries little in the way of penalty, even if a case eventually gets before the courts.
Smoking should just be taxed out of existence and vaping needs to be banned now. Taking anything into your lungs apart from air is not a good thing over the long term. If we don’t nail vaping now then all we’ll have done is replace one evil with another for no benefit.
It will be if Rishi gets his way. No one now aged 14 will be able to buy cigarettes. Now the just have to ban Vaping too.
Smoking should just be taxed out of existence and vaping needs to be banned now. Taking anything into your lungs apart from air is not a good thing over the long term. If we don’t nail vaping now then all we’ll have done is replace one evil with another for no benefit.
It will be if Rishi gets his way. No one now aged 14 will be able to buy cigarettes. Now the just have to ban Vaping too.
I’m not sure that will ever happen. The Tories have a habit of announcing things, but not following through with it.
Smoking should just be taxed out of existence and vaping needs to be banned now. Taking anything into your lungs apart from air is not a good thing over the long term. If we don’t nail vaping now then all we’ll have done is replace one evil with another for no benefit.
It will be if Rishi gets his way. No one now aged 14 will be able to buy cigarettes. Now the just have to ban Vaping too.
I’m not sure that will ever happen. The Tories have a habit of announcing things, but not following through with it.
I think the policy is a little clumsy and very difficult to make work. I’m rather hoping a new Labour government would go somewhat further.
Disposable vapes are to be banned in the UK as part of a drive to protect children’s health, as Prime Minister Rishi Sunak warned that youth vaping could become “endemic”.
Sunak will today also announce new powers to restrict vape flavours and require plain packaging as part of an attempt to make sure the products do not appeal to children.
Bloke I work with vapes and smokes. The only reason I think he's taken up vaping is because, in his head, he can vape in places he's not allowed to smoke in. In the work van for example; the rows we've had on long journeys (Barrow to SE London) where he's constantly at it and it aint a little "toot", its like you got Bob Marley sitting in the back. He couldn't give a f*** that the other three of us in the motor end up getting out the van the other end with headaches and suspect coughs. Any fake smells or flavours, such as those plug in air freshners, turn my stomach.
I have given up vaping for about 2 weeks now. I smoked for 20 years, wanted to give up and vaping helped me stop which was amazing at the time. However I then got addicted to vaping and instead of having a few puffs whenever I craved a fag I was doing it all the time. I was vaping constantly in doors when i would have never smoked in doors. I was vaping as soon as i got up, when i went for a crap, when working at home its was just non stop.
The last 2 years I had been suffering from poor circulation, my hands and feet were freezing all the time, even in the summer, got to the point this winter where my toes were literally brusing up they were so cold. I also play darts and trying to throw with cold hands is just horrible. I gave up vaping 2 weeks ago and within 2 days without nicotine my hands and feet were back to normal, yes they would go cold when it was cold outside but as soon as I went inside they would warm up again like normal. Vaping clearly has health risks attached, and some benefits too, however I do beleive it should only be available on prescription and after time they lower your dosage to wein you off it completey.
Never touched a disposable vape and have
no intention to, so don't really have any strong feelings of opposition to this. Will certainly have a positive environmental impact too. All
the ex-smokers I know that now vape use refillables rather than disposables,
seems to be the youth and largely those who never smoked who use the
disposables. Although I work for the NHS and they're quite heavily used in the NHS currently, so will be interesting to see how that will be navigated. Not sure
I agree with the stuff about limiting flavours in future - seems a bit ‘double
standards’ when you consider the alcohol industry does this all the time. Been
a while since my youth drinking era, but always remember things like Sourz,
flavoured vodkas etc. being sold cheaply to young drinkers (they to come around
the tables with test tubes/pipettes of the stuff!).
Tobacco industry pressure I’m sure has had an impact in this recent legislation. They are well known in the
political environment for their lobbying and definitely see the threat to their
industry of vaping/e-cigarettes. The IEA for example has been part-funded by the tobacco industry for decades. For a long time now smoking rates have been
dropping (same with alcohol) but it's been a gradual decline that they have
time to react and adapt to, but the sudden drop in smokers with the
introduction of e-cigarettes/vapes has been a big, largely unexpected, shock on
their profitability. They have started to try and develop their own vaping products alongside their tobacco offerings, but they were too stubborn to adapt to it initially and came too late on the scene to have any kind of decent market share now.
The government is all too aware of the financial impact of
a suffering tobacco industry too. Firstly, tobacco is a big income stream for
the treasury (smokers contribute via taxation more than
they drain through treating smoking related illnesses) and secondly, there is a
significant risk here for public pensions and local authority/council investments. If you have a public sector pension it's
most likely that your pension is heavily invested in the tobacco industry (pretty
much guaranteed if you have an LGPS pension!).
It seems to be a bit of a smoke
screen attempt to take focus away from the abject failure by the government to
police the practice of selling vapes to those underage. If there was proper
policing/oversight of this and stiff sentences and fines for those caught it
would be far more effective than these restrictions being proposed. We're at risk of turning into a bit of a nanny state here - I'd rather we just make it as hard as possible for underage people to get hold of it and tax it to a level to where it helps the public purse whilst still being a cheaper alternative to tobacco, and let people make their own decisions as to whether they want to do it or not (as they currently do with alcohol).
It does confuse me the extent some
people hate smoking and vaping to be honest. I was having a pint with a gent last
week who was having an impassioned rant about vaping – how it should definitely be banned
and how he couldn’t understand why people would knowingly put a toxin inside
their body etc. etc. – as he was chugging down his pint, with absolutely no hint of irony in
his sentiments whatsoever! Just bizarre...
Fantastically interesting posts about this. I think I’m one of those almost evangelical haters of smoking and vaping by association. I spent a long long time working in cancer care and saw first hand and up close and personal the effects that smoking has. Although there is nowhere near as much data on vaping, there is enough to know it’s not great. With vaping we’re at the thin end of what ultimately could be a very bad health wedge. We can at this point stop it. Do I drink ? Am I a hypocrite ? I drink about four units of alcohol per month. Zero spirits, zero wine. If alcohol was a newish phenomenon I think I’d be opposed to it and am quite happy for the tax on alcohol to be high to discourage it as much as is possible and to assist with financing its social consequences.
Never touched a disposable vape and have
no intention to, so don't really have any strong feelings of opposition to this. Will certainly have a positive environmental impact too. All
the ex-smokers I know that now vape use refillables rather than disposables,
seems to be the youth and largely those who never smoked who use the
disposables. Although I work for the NHS and they're quite heavily used in the NHS currently, so will be interesting to see how that will be navigated. Not sure
I agree with the stuff about limiting flavours in future - seems a bit ‘double
standards’ when you consider the alcohol industry does this all the time. Been
a while since my youth drinking era, but always remember things like Sourz,
flavoured vodkas etc. being sold cheaply to young drinkers (they to come around
the tables with test tubes/pipettes of the stuff!).
Tobacco industry pressure I’m sure has had an impact in this recent legislation. They are well known in the
political environment for their lobbying and definitely see the threat to their
industry of vaping/e-cigarettes. The IEA for example has been part-funded by the tobacco industry for decades. For a long time now smoking rates have been
dropping (same with alcohol) but it's been a gradual decline that they have
time to react and adapt to, but the sudden drop in smokers with the
introduction of e-cigarettes/vapes has been a big, largely unexpected, shock on
their profitability. They have started to try and develop their own vaping products alongside their tobacco offerings, but they were too stubborn to adapt to it initially and came too late on the scene to have any kind of decent market share now.
The government is all too aware of the financial impact of
a suffering tobacco industry too. Firstly, tobacco is a big income stream for
the treasury (smokers contribute via taxation more than
they drain through treating smoking related illnesses) and secondly, there is a
significant risk here for public pensions and local authority/council investments. If you have a public sector pension it's
most likely that your pension is heavily invested in the tobacco industry (pretty
much guaranteed if you have an LGPS pension!).
It seems to be a bit of a smoke
screen attempt to take focus away from the abject failure by the government to
police the practice of selling vapes to those underage. If there was proper
policing/oversight of this and stiff sentences and fines for those caught it
would be far more effective than these restrictions being proposed. We're at risk of turning into a bit of a nanny state here - I'd rather we just make it as hard as possible for underage people to get hold of it and tax it to a level to where it helps the public purse whilst still being a cheaper alternative to tobacco, and let people make their own decisions as to whether they want to do it or not (as they currently do with alcohol).
It does confuse me the extent some
people hate smoking and vaping to be honest. I was having a pint with a gent last
week who was having an impassioned rant about vaping – how it should definitely be banned
and how he couldn’t understand why people would knowingly put a toxin inside
their body etc. etc. – as he was chugging down his pint, with absolutely no hint of irony in
his sentiments whatsoever! Just bizarre...
Thats among the most balance and sense I've ever read on this site, take yourself away, pick a side and launch some insults man!
Joking aside, I'm not a fan of government interference especially with stuff like this. Fund the police and relevant trading standards bodies effectively and let them police the illegal sale of vapes, alcohol and tobacco to minors, thats it. More rules that clearly there isn't the resource to enforce anyway will not make a difference.
I know several people who hsve quit smoking for vapes theyare now even more addicted to nicotine than before. These things should never been allowed for general sale on only given out on prescription to those quitting smoking . Who knows what the long term effects are
I know several people who hsve quit smoking for vapes theyare now even more addicted to nicotine than before. These things should never been allowed for general sale on only given out on prescription to those quitting smoking . Who knows what the long term effects are
Exactly no one knows what the long term effects are. So what is the answer? Continue smoking, which we know the long term health effects, or vape which may or may not have some effect on your health. I think you'll find the "several people" you know are not more addicted to nicotine it's that you probably see them vaping more than you saw them smoking. Do you actually ask them the nicotine levels that are in the vapes they're using. I started with a quite high strength level and am now almost at zero nicotine. I'm sure in a world where everything that is considered bad for you would be banned. Fortunately we don't live in that world so until we know what the facts are perhaps we should give people the benefit of allowing them to make the best decision for themselves. As an aside I have never used or agree with disposable vapes.
We already know vaping is bad. That’s a fact. Better than smoking cigarettes quite possibly but we don’t know how much better or in fact if better at all. A cigarette burns tobacco and the smoke that is inhaled into the lungs contains tar, nicotine and umpteen chemicals but the inhalations are in terms of particle size quite large. Yes they get lodged in the lungs but mostly because of the particle size do not get down into the deepest part of the lungs. The lungs are not like a bag. They are made up of tiny sacks called alveoli. Vaping the heated vapour allows the contents of the vape to get right into that deep area and god only knows what long term exposure will do. I can tell you this much. It won’t be as good as not vaping. We should kill this problem now while it’s in its infancy. It’s all well and good saying allow people the choice. We are constantly protected from our own stupidity and rightly so. Seat belts, crash helmets, drugs, guns, dangerous dogs. All for our own protection. People are stupid.
We know vaping is bad, yes, no-one is disputing this. We don’t know quite how bad the long-term effects could be, but we certainly know it’s not as bad as smoking - even in worst case scenario the long-term effects of vaping won’t get anywhere near the long term consequences of smoking. There has been plenty of money piled into research for that so we do know that for a fact, and the NHS’s own long-term simulation research into this puts vaping at around 95% healthier than smoking long-term. The nicotine isn’t the really harmful bit of the cigarette, it’s the tar and carbon monoxide that really do the damage.
The bit where you talk about particles and inhalation etc, I don’t quite agree with – in fact from all the medical research I’ve seen (either through my work or via personal study of medical research) it’s rather the opposite. Smoke particles are much more easily absorbed by the lungs and vaping has around half the nicotine consumption rate of cigarettes. I do agree that some vapers, even taking that into account, do indeed vape far more nicotine than they would ever have smoked though, but that’s their own problem for not doing their research and taking care to calculate their dosage. The disposables are worse for this, as they contain a low amount of liquid but that liquid is super strong. There definitely needs to be more regulation of what companies put into their disposable vapes - it exists but isn't robust enough in my opinion.
I guess where I’m coming from here is that it’s clear now it’s far healthier than smoking so I’m not sure all the legislation and vilifying of vaping is necessary – it’s got to be better than smoking, no? And if people are basically saying to outlaw it because it’s unhealthy, then why stop there – ban alcohol, foods above a certain level of fat/calories, fizzy drinks etc. – these are far bigger public health issues. Let's not forget these things weren't invented for 12 year olds to use, they were to be a healthier alternative to smoking and get people to quit - and they've been hugely successful in doing that. Of course kids will get hold of them, the same way they have always done with cigarettes and alcohol.
I don’t have any issue with people not liking vaping, it’s bad for you after all and if you've never smoked/vaped why wouldn't you dislike them, but the hypocrisy people have is what I find issue with. May be just the way my mind works (largely analytical, evidence-based, methodological thinking – I’m gathering that is clear from my posts and probably explains why I have the job I do to be honest), but I just don’t understand how people can be so against something and calling for it to be banned (i.e. vaping), yet have no issue with something which is undoubtedly, and that it is certain – there is plenty of medical research on this - more unhealthy (alcohol/fast food etc.). That viewpoint makes zero sense at all to me. It would be like being against handgun ownership, but also being in full support of automatic/semi-automatic gun ownership at the same time.
May not come across in what I write, but my personal opinion for what it’s worth is I don’t think any of them should be banned – but then I hate government intervention on people’s personal life choices. Tax it by all means, use the tax receipts to pay for rehabilitation/advisory services/policing of the practice, but let people make their own decisions – much in the same way people do with alcohol currently. I.e. oi, government - mind your own bloody business and stop telling us what we can and can't do! (is that better Carter? )
We don’t know that vaping won’t be as bad as smoking cigarettes. We just don’t. As for the particles inhaled. Vaping has ultrafine particles not associated with cigarettes smoking. I’m really not sure where you are getting your research from but your post is actually wrong on a few levels.
Well it's not exactly my direct research, I'm not lab-based or anything, but the data and modelling I do have access to comes from my line of work. For my job I need to know this sort of thing - the NHS spends a lot of money on ecigarettes/vaping products, and those of us making the decisions on how and with who we spend that money on have a keen eye for detail, facts, data and evidence. If we make a wrong move we could cause serious health implications for a huge chunk of the population (my patch covers a population of around 3 million for reference). So we don't do what we do without having the best expert advice possible at the time those decisions are made. If you think our advice/research is 'wrong' then I guess there's not much point arguing about it on what is a football forum at the end of the day, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
I was a heavy smoker 20-30 a day. Never had a smokers cough. Ever. Gave up back in lockdown 2020 using a vape. Lasted about a year before I got the worst smokers/vapers cough ever and knocked it on the head. I use Nordic Spirit (Similar to Snus) now. I need to give those up too. I’m grateful for the vape back then but my god did I feel worse than smoking a cigarette. The youngsters that annoy me with vapes. Sat round the barbers at the weekend, young teenager sat there vaping away in front of everyone. Same inside McDonalds. All sat at a table thinking they’re hard with a vape. Just strange.
While I can see the points being made by both parties, for me it's a case that being less harmful than smoking is a very low hurdle to clear.
I am not entirely convinced that vaping is/will be a real solution when the primary argument seems to be that at least its just not AS BAD as a cigarette.
Everyone at my school vapes now. Not everyone, not the posh ones, but most kids. Year 10 to 13 definitely, probably a few year 9s and below. Don’t know if it’s been said but some parents buy them for their kids, just like you might buy your kid alcohol for a party. But also like alcohol, you can buy them in every corner shop or dodgy phone repair shop. You just need to know which ones don’t ask for id. It’s unethical but I guess it’s business. One of my mates was the one who did the runs down the shop and then sold them about, but he’s given up now and is smoking instead, but plans to quit that too. I’ve vaped once (as in sucked on the little end of one of those wanky usb sticks just the one time) when I was hammered and it was shite, didn’t taste of anything, didn’t give me anything, tasted like I’d had a lick of a tictac, then the fella offering it me stumbled away into a toilet.
Shite little gadgets, glad they’re gone. Just drink instead.
edit: just seen snus is gone too, that shits like 10x worse. Also if anyone wonders if people vape at school, the answer is ye. All the time, going into toilets to vape. Vape alarms now installed above the cubicles everywhere so the lads are getting more creative. One lad got a vape sowed into the sleeve of his blazer for easy access, think he used to vape in class haha. Wanker.
Sums up why they should be banned and available only on prescription for people trying to quit smoking.
I was a heavy smoker 20-30 a day. Never had a smokers cough. Ever. Gave up back in lockdown 2020 using a vape. Lasted about a year before I got the worst smokers/vapers cough ever and knocked it on the head. I use Nordic Spirit (Similar to Snus) now. I need to give those up too. I’m grateful for the vape back then but my god did I feel worse than smoking a cigarette. The youngsters that annoy me with vapes. Sat round the barbers at the weekend, young teenager sat there vaping away in front of everyone. Same inside McDonalds. All sat at a table thinking they’re hard with a vape. Just strange.
Was a heavy smoker for 25 years - tried everything to get off the fags and my quitting usually lasted no more than a week before I was back on them - tried vaping multiple times and I just didn't get on with it - personally i've always thought people that vape look ridiculous to me...
Anyway I heard aboout the nictone pouches from a work colleague and gave them a go just before christmas (I use the Pablo ones which are pretty strong to be fair) - but I haven't touched a cigerette or even wanted to ever since - zero cravings and I only have one in the morning and one in the evening and that sorts me right out. The hope is to be able to cut down the nictotine strength I use gradually but we will see how it goes, but I will say i'm saving about £80 a week plus and after a rough first week I'm no longer coughing my lungs out each morning which I take a positive sign.
I'm not trying to endorse it but it is just something that has worked for me personally, as someone who has tried and failed multiple times to quit outright, this time has thus far been an absolute doddle and this is by far the longest I've gone without falling off the wagon so to speak - although i'm sure there are still health risks involved with them (I should do a bit more research into them really though)
Well it's not exactly my direct research, I'm not lab-based or anything, but the data and modelling I do have access to comes from my line of work. For my job I need to know this sort of thing - the NHS spends a lot of money on ecigarettes/vaping products, and those of us making the decisions on how and with who we spend that money on have a keen eye for detail, facts, data and evidence. If we make a wrong move we could cause serious health implications for a huge chunk of the population (my patch covers a population of around 3 million for reference). So we don't do what we do without having the best expert advice possible at the time those decisions are made. If you think our advice/research is 'wrong' then I guess there's not much point arguing about it on what is a football forum at the end of the day, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Never heard the term spelunking before so was keen to look it up (especially as you wrote it @Carter) as I thought I’d learn about a debauched activity.
Was quite disappointed when I found out the meaning!
I've never heard of it either. But I'm disappointed by your disappointment.
Edit - just looked it up and the Dictionary gives an example of 'virginal spelunking in the mountains', got to be up your street, surely.
As far as I’m aware no e cigarettes or vaping products are available on the NHS. Quite why Big C in his job thinks the NHS are spending and I quote “a lot of money on e cigarettes and vaping products” I can only guess at. Perhaps he could correct me if I’m wrong.
As far as I’m aware no e cigarettes or vaping products are available on the NHS. Quite why Big C in his job thinks the NHS are spending and I quote “a lot of money on e cigarettes and vaping products” I can only guess at. Perhaps he could correct me if I’m wrong.
Would he maybe be talking abut the "swap to stop" initiative? I believe that is planned in for this year unless i'm misinformed - 1 million free vape kits supposedly to be handed out
Comments
Was quite disappointed when I found out the meaning!
Why do some people drink themselves into oblivion?
Why does half the world stick powder up their nose?
Why does anyone have the need to take crystal meth?
Why do some people go cave diving?
Why do some of these influencers feel the need to jump from building to building with a risk of falling and dying?
Why do some people spend a fortune each year traveling around the country watching Charlton?
Illegal vapes seized at UK Border Control
2021- 4,430
2022 - 988,064
2023 (10 months) - 4,537,689
Stop messing about, just ban retail sale of the whole bloody lot and make them prescription only!
It is beyond ridiculous the UK is passively sitting on it's arse watching a massive, long term public health problem developing.
Sunak will today also announce new powers to restrict vape flavours and require plain packaging as part of an attempt to make sure the products do not appeal to children.
The last 2 years I had been suffering from poor circulation, my hands and feet were freezing all the time, even in the summer, got to the point this winter where my toes were literally brusing up they were so cold. I also play darts and trying to throw with cold hands is just horrible. I gave up vaping 2 weeks ago and within 2 days without nicotine my hands and feet were back to normal, yes they would go cold when it was cold outside but as soon as I went inside they would warm up again like normal. Vaping clearly has health risks attached, and some benefits too, however I do beleive it should only be available on prescription and after time they lower your dosage to wein you off it completey.
Never touched a disposable vape and have no intention to, so don't really have any strong feelings of opposition to this. Will certainly have a positive environmental impact too. All the ex-smokers I know that now vape use refillables rather than disposables, seems to be the youth and largely those who never smoked who use the disposables. Although I work for the NHS and they're quite heavily used in the NHS currently, so will be interesting to see how that will be navigated. Not sure I agree with the stuff about limiting flavours in future - seems a bit ‘double standards’ when you consider the alcohol industry does this all the time. Been a while since my youth drinking era, but always remember things like Sourz, flavoured vodkas etc. being sold cheaply to young drinkers (they to come around the tables with test tubes/pipettes of the stuff!).
Tobacco industry pressure I’m sure has had an impact in this recent legislation. They are well known in the political environment for their lobbying and definitely see the threat to their industry of vaping/e-cigarettes. The IEA for example has been part-funded by the tobacco industry for decades. For a long time now smoking rates have been dropping (same with alcohol) but it's been a gradual decline that they have time to react and adapt to, but the sudden drop in smokers with the introduction of e-cigarettes/vapes has been a big, largely unexpected, shock on their profitability. They have started to try and develop their own vaping products alongside their tobacco offerings, but they were too stubborn to adapt to it initially and came too late on the scene to have any kind of decent market share now.
The government is all too aware of the financial impact of a suffering tobacco industry too. Firstly, tobacco is a big income stream for the treasury (smokers contribute via taxation more than they drain through treating smoking related illnesses) and secondly, there is a significant risk here for public pensions and local authority/council investments. If you have a public sector pension it's most likely that your pension is heavily invested in the tobacco industry (pretty much guaranteed if you have an LGPS pension!).
It seems to be a bit of a smoke screen attempt to take focus away from the abject failure by the government to police the practice of selling vapes to those underage. If there was proper policing/oversight of this and stiff sentences and fines for those caught it would be far more effective than these restrictions being proposed. We're at risk of turning into a bit of a nanny state here - I'd rather we just make it as hard as possible for underage people to get hold of it and tax it to a level to where it helps the public purse whilst still being a cheaper alternative to tobacco, and let people make their own decisions as to whether they want to do it or not (as they currently do with alcohol).
It does confuse me the extent some people hate smoking and vaping to be honest. I was having a pint with a gent last week who was having an impassioned rant about vaping – how it should definitely be banned and how he couldn’t understand why people would knowingly put a toxin inside their body etc. etc. – as he was chugging down his pint, with absolutely no hint of irony in his sentiments whatsoever! Just bizarre...
Joking aside, I'm not a fan of government interference especially with stuff like this. Fund the police and relevant trading standards bodies effectively and let them police the illegal sale of vapes, alcohol and tobacco to minors, thats it. More rules that clearly there isn't the resource to enforce anyway will not make a difference.
So what is the answer?
Continue smoking, which we know the long term health effects, or vape which may or may not have some effect on your health.
I think you'll find the "several people" you know are not more addicted to nicotine it's that you probably see them vaping more than you saw them smoking.
Do you actually ask them the nicotine levels that are in the vapes they're using.
I started with a quite high strength level and am now almost at zero nicotine.
I'm sure in a world where everything that is considered bad for you would be banned.
Fortunately we don't live in that world so until we know what the facts are perhaps we should give people the benefit of allowing them to make the best decision for themselves.
As an aside I have never used or agree with disposable vapes.
We don’t know that vaping won’t be as bad as smoking cigarettes. We just don’t. As for the particles inhaled. Vaping has ultrafine particles not associated with cigarettes smoking. I’m really not sure where you are getting your research from but your post is actually wrong on a few levels.
The youngsters that annoy me with vapes. Sat round the barbers at the weekend, young teenager sat there vaping away in front of everyone. Same inside McDonalds. All sat at a table thinking they’re hard with a vape. Just strange.
I am not entirely convinced that vaping is/will be a real solution when the primary argument seems to be that at least its just not AS BAD as a cigarette.
Was a heavy smoker for 25 years - tried everything to get off the fags and my quitting usually lasted no more than a week before I was back on them - tried vaping multiple times and I just didn't get on with it - personally i've always thought people that vape look ridiculous to me...
Anyway I heard aboout the nictone pouches from a work colleague and gave them a go just before christmas (I use the Pablo ones which are pretty strong to be fair) - but I haven't touched a cigerette or even wanted to ever since - zero cravings and I only have one in the morning and one in the evening and that sorts me right out. The hope is to be able to cut down the nictotine strength I use gradually but we will see how it goes, but I will say i'm saving about £80 a week plus and after a rough first week I'm no longer coughing my lungs out each morning which I take a positive sign.
I'm not trying to endorse it but it is just something that has worked for me personally, as someone who has tried and failed multiple times to quit outright, this time has thus far been an absolute doddle and this is by far the longest I've gone without falling off the wagon so to speak - although i'm sure there are still health risks involved with them (I should do a bit more research into them really though)
Edit - just looked it up and the Dictionary gives an example of 'virginal spelunking in the mountains', got to be up your street, surely.
https://vapoholic.co.uk/2024/01/09/swap-to-stop-free-vapes/
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/smokers-urged-to-swap-cigarettes-for-vapes-in-world-first-scheme
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/smokers-encouraged-to-quit-this-new-year-for-their-health