We lived in Brussels for just over 3 years and immediately after that went to Jakarta for a similar stint. With 4 kids, just like at home, a substantial amount of our time was spent ferrying them around to sports and friends and therefore naturally a lot of our socialising was with parents of their friends and of course work colleagues and their families from a variety of countries.
The great thing about Indonesia was that our boys went to the international school as opposed to the British school in Brussels. With pupils from around 120 countries attending the international school our sons appreciated at an early age that people are people regardless of skin colour, language, culture and religion.
We used the majority of our holidays to travel to other countries, driving across Europe from Brussels, or around Asia, Australia and New Zealand when in Indonesia. Instead of travelling home to the UK we encouraged family to visit us.
If we hadn’t had a young family I would have loved to have moved around even more but after moving 6 times in 15 years, including a couple of periods in Aberdeen, stability for our children and their education became the priority.
I lived in Hong Kong for about 10 years and am now in Sri Lanka trying to buy a place here. I have travelled all over Asia including Thailand many many times and also used to spend a lot of time in Mainland China.
It's an absolute blast. A pleasure. A joy. Your heart beats faster, the food tastes better, the sun shines brighter, the cities vibrate and the sea glitters.
Embrace it. Learn the culture and history. Take lessons in Thai from Day 1 (even crap local language skills wins over locals, even if you look stupid in the process) It makes you look humble and breaks the ice. I still have old ladies correcting my terrible Cantonese tones when buying stuff in local shops in Hong Kong.
Never had a problem with the ex-pat scene in HK. Most are adventurous and alternative but a few are only into the money or can't live without brown sauce and still think it's the glory days of the empire.
One word of advice is don't burn your boats. If you can afford to, keep a your place in the UK or let it out or Airbnb it, or whatever works. Particularly in the early days. It's nice to know home is still there if you need it.
I want to provide a bit of balance on the "stay away from Brits/westerners" advice.
I lived in Taiwan for 5 years and China for 7...
During both of those experiences I thoroughly enjoyed having ready made community with other foreigners from around the world (and in Urumqi I'm talking a handful or Brits and Americans and a whole bunch of central Asians, Russians, Saudis, Pakistanis) who would seek each other out to socialise and e.g. form football teams etc. It brings people together in a way that you just don't get "back home". Like.... people are a lot more open to mixing with each other and less discerning about who they might socialise with...and...there are lots of positives to that. Whenever I've moved back to the UK I've missed thay sense of community and found it much much harder to make friends and find people to socialise with.
Having said that, at the same time I managed to learn decent Chinese and integrate well with locals through e.g. football, snowboarding, work...and...well...being single at the time.
So.... it's not an either/or... and I'd say that tapping into local foreigner networks in Bangkok is a good way to start to integrate into your new environment.....
I'm guessing you will be going with the Mrs (remember you got married recently). It's different for western women in SE/E Asia... in a whole manner of ways. There are (as far as I experienced) far fewer western women living in the orient than men. There are a wide range of factors at work, but not insignificant amongst them seems to be just feeling big compared to local women. That's what I was told, anyway.... but yeah... Foreigner communities could also be useful in that regard.... as well as, crucially, making those connections with the locals...
Hope that helps. Feel free to pm me for any reason.
Love Thailand .... especially the diving... and just...how easy it is to travel there and how friendly the general feel is to the place
You've made me want to move there just from bringing it up. Have a great time
Thanks mate, appreciate the balance. Good to read different viewpoints.
I want to provide a bit of balance on the "stay away from Brits/westerners" advice.
I lived in Taiwan for 5 years and China for 7...
During both of those experiences I thoroughly enjoyed having ready made community with other foreigners from around the world (and in Urumqi I'm talking a handful or Brits and Americans and a whole bunch of central Asians, Russians, Saudis, Pakistanis) who would seek each other out to socialise and e.g. form football teams etc. It brings people together in a way that you just don't get "back home". Like.... people are a lot more open to mixing with each other and less discerning about who they might socialise with...and...there are lots of positives to that. Whenever I've moved back to the UK I've missed thay sense of community and found it much much harder to make friends and find people to socialise with.
Having said that, at the same time I managed to learn decent Chinese and integrate well with locals through e.g. football, snowboarding, work...and...well...being single at the time.
So.... it's not an either/or... and I'd say that tapping into local foreigner networks in Bangkok is a good way to start to integrate into your new environment.....
I'm guessing you will be going with the Mrs (remember you got married recently). It's different for western women in SE/E Asia... in a whole manner of ways. There are (as far as I experienced) far fewer western women living in the orient than men. There are a wide range of factors at work, but not insignificant amongst them seems to be just feeling big compared to local women. That's what I was told, anyway.... but yeah... Foreigner communities could also be useful in that regard.... as well as, crucially, making those connections with the locals...
Hope that helps. Feel free to pm me for any reason.
Love Thailand .... especially the diving... and just...how easy it is to travel there and how friendly the general feel is to the place
You've made me want to move there just from bringing it up. Have a great time
Thanks mate, appreciate the balance. Good to read different viewpoints.
He’s definitely not wrong, a balance is key, I just find it quite sad when I meet people that have been here over a decade, can’t speak a word of the language, don’t have local friends and live on a diet of frozen nuggets and KFC.
I want to provide a bit of balance on the "stay away from Brits/westerners" advice.
I lived in Taiwan for 5 years and China for 7...
During both of those experiences I thoroughly enjoyed having ready made community with other foreigners from around the world (and in Urumqi I'm talking a handful or Brits and Americans and a whole bunch of central Asians, Russians, Saudis, Pakistanis) who would seek each other out to socialise and e.g. form football teams etc. It brings people together in a way that you just don't get "back home". Like.... people are a lot more open to mixing with each other and less discerning about who they might socialise with...and...there are lots of positives to that. Whenever I've moved back to the UK I've missed thay sense of community and found it much much harder to make friends and find people to socialise with.
Having said that, at the same time I managed to learn decent Chinese and integrate well with locals through e.g. football, snowboarding, work...and...well...being single at the time.
So.... it's not an either/or... and I'd say that tapping into local foreigner networks in Bangkok is a good way to start to integrate into your new environment.....
I'm guessing you will be going with the Mrs (remember you got married recently). It's different for western women in SE/E Asia... in a whole manner of ways. There are (as far as I experienced) far fewer western women living in the orient than men. There are a wide range of factors at work, but not insignificant amongst them seems to be just feeling big compared to local women. That's what I was told, anyway.... but yeah... Foreigner communities could also be useful in that regard.... as well as, crucially, making those connections with the locals...
Hope that helps. Feel free to pm me for any reason.
Love Thailand .... especially the diving... and just...how easy it is to travel there and how friendly the general feel is to the place
You've made me want to move there just from bringing it up. Have a great time
Thanks mate, appreciate the balance. Good to read different viewpoints.
He’s definitely not wrong, a balance is key, I just find it quite sad when I meet people that have been here over a decade, can’t speak a word of the language, don’t have local friends and live on a diet of frozen nuggets and KFC.
I want to provide a bit of balance on the "stay away from Brits/westerners" advice.
I lived in Taiwan for 5 years and China for 7...
During both of those experiences I thoroughly enjoyed having ready made community with other foreigners from around the world (and in Urumqi I'm talking a handful or Brits and Americans and a whole bunch of central Asians, Russians, Saudis, Pakistanis) who would seek each other out to socialise and e.g. form football teams etc. It brings people together in a way that you just don't get "back home". Like.... people are a lot more open to mixing with each other and less discerning about who they might socialise with...and...there are lots of positives to that. Whenever I've moved back to the UK I've missed thay sense of community and found it much much harder to make friends and find people to socialise with.
Having said that, at the same time I managed to learn decent Chinese and integrate well with locals through e.g. football, snowboarding, work...and...well...being single at the time.
So.... it's not an either/or... and I'd say that tapping into local foreigner networks in Bangkok is a good way to start to integrate into your new environment.....
I'm guessing you will be going with the Mrs (remember you got married recently). It's different for western women in SE/E Asia... in a whole manner of ways. There are (as far as I experienced) far fewer western women living in the orient than men. There are a wide range of factors at work, but not insignificant amongst them seems to be just feeling big compared to local women. That's what I was told, anyway.... but yeah... Foreigner communities could also be useful in that regard.... as well as, crucially, making those connections with the locals...
Hope that helps. Feel free to pm me for any reason.
Love Thailand .... especially the diving... and just...how easy it is to travel there and how friendly the general feel is to the place
You've made me want to move there just from bringing it up. Have a great time
Thanks mate, appreciate the balance. Good to read different viewpoints.
He’s definitely not wrong, a balance is key, I just find it quite sad when I meet people that have been here over a decade, can’t speak a word of the language, don’t have local friends and live on a diet of frozen nuggets and KFC.
How can anyone manage that?!🤣 We have so many kinds of great food here in China. Unbelievable.
I lived in Hong Kong for about 10 years and am now in Sri Lanka trying to buy a place here. I have travelled all over Asia including Thailand many many times and also used to spend a lot of time in Mainland China.
It's an absolute blast. A pleasure. A joy. Your heart beats faster, the food tastes better, the sun shines brighter, the cities vibrate and the sea glitters.
Embrace it. Learn the culture and history. Take lessons in Thai from Day 1 (even crap local language skills wins over locals, even if you look stupid in the process) It makes you look humble and breaks the ice. I still have old ladies correcting my terrible Cantonese tones when buying stuff in local shops in Hong Kong.
Never had a problem with the ex-pat scene in HK. Most are adventurous and alternative but a few are only into the money or can't live without brown sauce and still think it's the glory days of the empire.
One word of advice is don't burn your boats. If you can afford to, keep a your place in the UK or let it out or Airbnb it, or whatever works. Particularly in the early days. It's nice to know home is still there if you need it.
My best piece of advice is to find a lower league football team to follow in your new country. Great way to integrate with locals rather than follow one of the glory teams and also a good way to replicate the the long suffering feeling of being a Charlton fan.
My best piece of advice is to find a lower league football team to follow in your new country. Great way to integrate with locals rather than follow one of the glory teams and also a good way to replicate the the long suffering feeling of being a Charlton fan.
I want to provide a bit of balance on the "stay away from Brits/westerners" advice.
I lived in Taiwan for 5 years and China for 7...
During both of those experiences I thoroughly enjoyed having ready made community with other foreigners from around the world (and in Urumqi I'm talking a handful or Brits and Americans and a whole bunch of central Asians, Russians, Saudis, Pakistanis) who would seek each other out to socialise and e.g. form football teams etc. It brings people together in a way that you just don't get "back home". Like.... people are a lot more open to mixing with each other and less discerning about who they might socialise with...and...there are lots of positives to that. Whenever I've moved back to the UK I've missed thay sense of community and found it much much harder to make friends and find people to socialise with.
Having said that, at the same time I managed to learn decent Chinese and integrate well with locals through e.g. football, snowboarding, work...and...well...being single at the time.
So.... it's not an either/or... and I'd say that tapping into local foreigner networks in Bangkok is a good way to start to integrate into your new environment.....
I'm guessing you will be going with the Mrs (remember you got married recently). It's different for western women in SE/E Asia... in a whole manner of ways. There are (as far as I experienced) far fewer western women living in the orient than men. There are a wide range of factors at work, but not insignificant amongst them seems to be just feeling big compared to local women. That's what I was told, anyway.... but yeah... Foreigner communities could also be useful in that regard.... as well as, crucially, making those connections with the locals...
Hope that helps. Feel free to pm me for any reason.
Love Thailand .... especially the diving... and just...how easy it is to travel there and how friendly the general feel is to the place
You've made me want to move there just from bringing it up. Have a great time
Thanks mate, appreciate the balance. Good to read different viewpoints.
He’s definitely not wrong, a balance is key, I just find it quite sad when I meet people that have been here over a decade, can’t speak a word of the language, don’t have local friends and live on a diet of frozen nuggets and KFC.
Integrating is the key.
There is an Irish bar ten minutes by car from me. We drove past it one day and popped in to see what time they were open. I asked the fella in Portuguese what time they opened and he replied back in English. One word brought another and it turns out that he has been living here in Brazil for fourteen years and does not speak the language at all. He owns the pub with a dutch guy.
I have met him a couple of times and the fella is alright but I can only think that he is missing out on things, but he seems happy enough.
Having worked in Paris occasionally I can only give a few bits of advice -
Make sure that everyone you encounter understands that you are British and therefore their rules and customs do not apply to you
Stick only to foods you know, its a well edtablished fact that British food is superior to all other food. Share this knowledge with the locals and they SHOULD hold you in high esteem.
There really is no need to learn any other language as most places worth going teach English as a second language in schools, also if someone tries to speak to you in a native lingo then you should point blank refuse to even acknowledge they have spoken, maybe just hand them a tissue like they sneezed.
Follow the above and you will be a social butterfly.
To be fair, expanding on the mix/ dont mix with expats seriously, it really depends on what you want out of the experience, for instance, Im 36 and moved to Madrid with my Spanish missus, my life is here so make like a local and enjoy it (except the Spanish bureaucracy, fck you)
A lot of the Brit and continental kids I work with are just that, young 20's straight out of university wanting to live abroad and work for a bit, they all live, work and hang out together and want to party it up all weekend as 6 months down the line they're probably moving on to Sevilla or some other country entirely. Some of the older ones are here long term but just want to live in Spain so dont care much outside of their bubble and make a life out of "living British but with better weather"
Its obviously, worth meeting up with others as gives a social circle, and will stop you from going mad, but just work it to your wants and needs.
Join a foreigners/migrants language course. If they have one, they are a great place to learn a language. The best thing is that everyone there is totally crap at the outset. It's a great meeting place for getting new friends that are like you, starting out in a new country. I have now got friends, from Holland, Uganda (via Greenwich - sadly not a football fan), Philippines, Ecuador, Vietnam, Lithuania, Ukraine, and many others.
When you are all crap you don't feel embarrassed and its surprising how much fun it can be.
If you can, try the Duolingo App for daily lessons. I've got a streak running for over 2 years. I'm by no means great, but the constant revision does eventually stick.
Agree with Stu, I moved to Vietnam, avoided the expat area for a while and enjoyed going out of my comfort zone. There will be lots of people in a similar position to you so most will be approachable and friendly. Picking up some phrases does you a world of good with locals, the effort is always appreciated. Thailand having a completely different alphabet makes it tough, but still worth giving it a go.
Found Facebook to be a good tool for finding things to do/hobbies, I used to join a weekly football group that played 7 a-side every Thursday. I'm sure there's similar in Thailand.
I've only really explored parts of Northern Thailand, did the Mai Hong Son (spelling might be wrong) motorbike loop with some friends over Lunar New Year a couple years back. Chiang Mai was really nice and the nature there is great. I also enjoyed Pai but it's very "backpacker" so depends if that's what you're into or not.
Very well thanks. Settled in well to an apartment, and have an enjoyable daily routine of some work and a swim. Starting at a language school next month to learn Thai, and looking forward to the challenge and meeting more people.
Join a foreigners/migrants language course. If they have one, they are a great place to learn a language. The best thing is that everyone there is totally crap at the outset. It's a great meeting place for getting new friends that are like you, starting out in a new country. I have now got friends, from Holland, Uganda (via Greenwich - sadly not a football fan), Philippines, Ecuador, Vietnam, Lithuania, Ukraine, and many others.
When you are all crap you don't feel embarrassed and its surprising how much fun it can be.
If you can, try the Duolingo App for daily lessons. I've got a streak running for over 2 years. I'm by no means great, but the constant revision does eventually stick.
7 years Danish for me on Duolingo. Started it to keep the brain ticking over at a boring job. Can read it relatively competently but because I have never visited the country and immersed in the culture, have bugger all chance of speaking and pronouncing it, other than to be ridiculed by the locals...
Why Danish?
Fancied the bird Prime Minister off of Borgen played by Sidse Babbet Knudson
My big regret in life is not staying put long enough in places abroad, to do all the wonderful stuff some of you guys have done. I have travelled for business only AND Charlton.
Join a foreigners/migrants language course. If they have one, they are a great place to learn a language. The best thing is that everyone there is totally crap at the outset. It's a great meeting place for getting new friends that are like you, starting out in a new country. I have now got friends, from Holland, Uganda (via Greenwich - sadly not a football fan), Philippines, Ecuador, Vietnam, Lithuania, Ukraine, and many others.
When you are all crap you don't feel embarrassed and its surprising how much fun it can be.
If you can, try the Duolingo App for daily lessons. I've got a streak running for over 2 years. I'm by no means great, but the constant revision does eventually stick.
7 years Danish for me on Duolingo. Started it to keep the brain ticking over at a boring job. Can read it relatively competently but because I have never visited the country and immersed in the culture, have bugger all chance of speaking and pronouncing it, other than to be ridiculed by the locals...
Why Danish?
Fancied the bird Prime Minister off of Borgen played by Sidse Babbet Knudson
My big regret in life is not staying put long enough in places abroad, to do all the wonderful stuff some of you guys have done. I have travelled for business only AND Charlton.
This is frying my brain😂
I mean, I fancied her too, but blimey!
Well you better not watch the Czech crime series Clona on Walter Presents, starring Vika Kekeres as one of the cops. You'll be through the whole of Czech Duolingo in a year, and its a right bastard of a course, too
Keep paying into the uk state pension….. I think you can still do it by paying a self employed stamp by direct debit. Find best way(s) to send money to/from your uk and Thailand bank accounts What jabs will you need like Hep, rabies etc, get them done before you go….. Take proof of no claims driving discount…. it mattered for Canada don’t know about Thailand?
Keep paying into the uk state pension….. I think you can still do it by paying a self employed stamp by direct debit. Find best way(s) to send money to/from your uk and Thailand bank accounts What jabs will you need like Hep, rabies etc, get them done before you go….. Take proof of no claims driving discount…. it mattered for Canada don’t know about Thailand?
I use Wise to exchange and transfer funds between Australia UK and Thailand. Excellent exchange rates and very quick. You can also get a Debit card and load it with different currencies. Beware the New Thai Tax law, if you spend more than 180 days in Thailand you are liable for income tax on funds bought into Thailand on money that was generated overseas. Double taxation treaties may help, but you still may have to lodge a return or employ an accountant. For me I've decided to avoid the situation by spending slightly under 180 days there going forward.
As today is 8 months since I moved to Thailand, thought I'd share a quick update for those who helped with so much great advice before.
It's been a wonderful experience so far and enjoying living here. Have made some good friends from around the world while at the Thai language lessons attending weekly, and it's been great hanging out with ex-colleagues from various Thai companies I've worked with in the past.
After 6 months of lessons, I can speak Thai to a conversational level, and able to read fairly well (if not slowly), writing is the most difficult, and short sentences are as much as can achieve for now.
Toughest aspect has been not visiting parents as would have when living in London, although they are visiting in February, which is going to be a special moment.
Thanks again for all the great advice and suggestions from everyone.
Well done. I'm still working in England whilst living in Sweden. My problem is still the language level. I have been at Swedish For Immigrants school (SFI), since September 23, going two weeks each month and working in England the rest of the time. My Swedish is passable but it is not enough to find professional work, hence my routine. I'd love a proper job in Sweden but there are difficulties for foreigners and older people which create a disadvantage.
It's not great and there are headaches for sure. Learning a new language to A level or above standard (which is required by all the employers I've approach in the last 2 years, is really tough. I think others that are at it full-time learn faster, but I'm also a geriatric so the brain doesn't go as quick as the young ones.
One thing of note is the tax system. Its higher in Sweden. Basic tax is 33% on anything earned or through investment, property, savings, investments, etc, above the personal tax free threshold of about £1100 per year (even if earned in UK). Of course it raises to much higher once you get to the £45k+ bracket.
As today is 8 months since I moved to Thailand, thought I'd share a quick update for those who helped with so much great advice before.
It's been a wonderful experience so far and enjoying living here. Have made some good friends from around the world while at the Thai language lessons attending weekly, and it's been great hanging out with ex-colleagues from various Thai companies I've worked with in the past.
After 6 months of lessons, I can speak Thai to a conversational level, and able to read fairly well (if not slowly), writing is the most difficult, and short sentences are as much as can achieve for now.
Toughest aspect has been not visiting parents as would have when living in London, although they are visiting in February, which is going to be a special moment.
Thanks again for all the great advice and suggestions from everyone.
Comments
We used the majority of our holidays to travel to other countries, driving across Europe from Brussels, or around Asia, Australia and New Zealand when in Indonesia. Instead of travelling home to the UK we encouraged family to visit us.
If we hadn’t had a young family I would have loved to have moved around even more but after moving 6 times in 15 years, including a couple of periods in Aberdeen, stability for our children and their education became the priority.
It's an absolute blast. A pleasure. A joy. Your heart beats faster, the food tastes better, the sun shines brighter, the cities vibrate and the sea glitters.
Embrace it. Learn the culture and history. Take lessons in Thai from Day 1 (even crap local language skills wins over locals, even if you look stupid in the process) It makes you look humble and breaks the ice. I still have old ladies correcting my terrible Cantonese tones when buying stuff in local shops in Hong Kong.
Never had a problem with the ex-pat scene in HK. Most are adventurous and alternative but a few are only into the money or can't live without brown sauce and still think it's the glory days of the empire.
One word of advice is don't burn your boats. If you can afford to, keep a your place in the UK or let it out or Airbnb it, or whatever works. Particularly in the early days. It's nice to know home is still there if you need it.
Enjoy!
- Make sure that everyone you encounter understands that you are British and therefore their rules and customs do not apply to you
- Stick only to foods you know, its a well edtablished fact that British food is superior to all other food. Share this knowledge with the locals and they SHOULD hold you in high esteem.
- There really is no need to learn any other language as most places worth going teach English as a second language in schools, also if someone tries to speak to you in a native lingo then you should point blank refuse to even acknowledge they have spoken, maybe just hand them a tissue like they sneezed.
Follow the above and you will be a social butterfly.A lot of the Brit and continental kids I work with are just that, young 20's straight out of university wanting to live abroad and work for a bit, they all live, work and hang out together and want to party it up all weekend as 6 months down the line they're probably moving on to Sevilla or some other country entirely. Some of the older ones are here long term but just want to live in Spain so dont care much outside of their bubble and make a life out of "living British but with better weather"
Its obviously, worth meeting up with others as gives a social circle, and will stop you from going mad, but just work it to your wants and needs.
When you are all crap you don't feel embarrassed and its surprising how much fun it can be.
If you can, try the Duolingo App for daily lessons. I've got a streak running for over 2 years. I'm by no means great, but the constant revision does eventually stick.
Why Danish?
Fancied the bird Prime Minister off of Borgen played by Sidse Babbet Knudson
My big regret in life is not staying put long enough in places abroad, to do all the wonderful stuff some of you guys have done. I have travelled for business only AND Charlton.
I mean, I fancied her too, but blimey!
Well you better not watch the Czech crime series Clona on Walter Presents, starring Vika Kekeres as one of the cops. You'll be through the whole of Czech Duolingo in a year, and its a right bastard of a course, too
Find best way(s) to send money to/from your uk and Thailand bank accounts
What jabs will you need like Hep, rabies etc, get them done before you go…..
Take proof of no claims driving discount…. it mattered for Canada don’t know about Thailand?
Beware the New Thai Tax law, if you spend more than 180 days in Thailand you are liable for income tax on funds bought into Thailand on money that was generated overseas. Double taxation treaties may help, but you still may have to lodge a return or employ an accountant.
For me I've decided to avoid the situation by spending slightly under 180 days there going forward.
Toughest aspect has been not visiting parents as would have when living in London, although they are visiting in February, which is going to be a special moment.
Loving your enthusiasm.
Well done and keep it up 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻♥️
It's not great and there are headaches for sure. Learning a new language to A level or above standard (which is required by all the employers I've approach in the last 2 years, is really tough. I think others that are at it full-time learn faster, but I'm also a geriatric so the brain doesn't go as quick as the young ones.
One thing of note is the tax system. Its higher in Sweden. Basic tax is 33% on anything earned or through investment, property, savings, investments, etc, above the personal tax free threshold of about £1100 per year (even if earned in UK). Of course it raises to much higher once you get to the £45k+ bracket.
Swings and roundabouts.