Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.

Rental properties

Not to get into the politics of it, but looks like 2030 is the year by which rental properties have to have an EPC rating of at least a C.

at least a reasonable lead in time, and who knows what will change before then, but a heads up to any landlords amongst us and weighing up options.
«1

Comments

  • edited September 24
    Thanks, will make sure not to have any by then as no way victorian conversion is getting that rating, fortunately lad will be 20 by then and hope to be in a position to gift him one so he can deal with it. Live in it then sell it hopefully and remove the hideous capital gains tax currently vested in it.
  • edited September 25
    Thanks, will make sure not to have any by then as no way victorian conversion is getting that rating, fortunately lad will be 20 by then and hope to be in a position to gift him one so he can deal with it. Live in it then sell it hopefully and remove the hideous capital gains tax currently vested in it.
    Similar, all ours (Friendly society) bar a couple are pre 1900 built (we built them) and simply won't be cost effective in most instances and in some impossible. I'll see how it looks in detail over the coming 12 months but if it's a hard 'must be C' then suspect we'll start a slow sell off and move into other investments with an aim to be fully out by the end of 2028........ sorry Dartford.


  • The kidneys are bean-shaped organs that perform a number of functions, including: 
     
    Filtering blood: Kidneys filter blood to remove waste products and produce urine. 
     
    Regulating chemicals: Kidneys regulate the amount of salt, water, and other chemicals in the body. 
     
    Maintaining homeostasis: Kidneys eliminate excess fluid and solute, and control fluid and electrolyte balance. 
     
    Producing erythropoietin: Kidneys produce erythropoietin. 
     
    Modulating blood pressure: Kidneys modulate blood pressure. 
     
    Here are some other properties of the kidneys: 
     
    Location: Kidneys are located below the ribcage and behind the belly, between the intestines and diaphragm. 
     
    Size: Kidneys are about the size of a clenched fist. 
     
    Structure: Kidneys are made up of a renal capsule, renal cortex, and renal medulla. 
     
    Nephrons: Kidneys contain over a million filtering units called nephrons. 
     
    Glomerulus: Each nephron contains a filter called the glomerulus, which filters blood. 
     
    Tubule: Each nephron contains a tubule, which returns necessary substances to the blood and removes waste. 
     
    Urine: Urine is excreted through the ureter, a tube that leads to the bladder. 
     
  • Rob7Lee said:
    Thanks, will make sure not to have any by then as no way victorian conversion is getting that rating, fortunately lad will be 20 by then and hope to be in a position to gift him one so he can deal with it. Live in it then sell it hopefully and remove the hideous capital gains tax currently vested in it.
    Similar, all ours (Friendly society) bar a couple are pre 1900 built (we built them) and simply won't be cost effective in most instances and in some impossible. I'll see how it looks in detail over the coming 12 months but if it's a hard 'must be C' then suspect we'll start a slow sell off and move into other investments with an aim to be fully out by the end of 2028........ sorry Dartford.


    I hate to say it but this (landlords selling) is not necessarily a bad thing and an intended consequence of this, freeing up housing stock is a good thing. 

    There is talk about grants to improve the efficiency of houses.

    I bought a 1928 "traditional built" (no cavity) house at the start of 2022. The whole road is like this. Standard position was that I'd never get it above a D (2 contractors in the family told me this when I was buying) but having spoken to an expert in the field he basically said there is no house in the country that cant get to a C if not a B. It takes investment and its generally not cost effective for landlords but is very common across owner occupiers. There has been a massive change in our road since we moved in, about 10% have done external wall insulation, loads have talked about insulated plaster boarding inside, lots of people have done triple glazing. The rented houses aren't getting any of these upgrades done.

    On ours as we've been renovating we have upgraded bits as we've gone along, new windows (triple glazed), insulated plasterboard inside (learning to dot and dab plasterboard was an experience!), double the regs loft insulation, under floorboard insulation downstairs, draught proofing, new insulated front door and boarding the inside of the porch for an additional layer of insulation. When we have done the back of the house (ground floor extension and new windows) and done the external wall insulation our house will comfortably be a B rating. It is possible to do to old houses - only thing is to make sure the insulation is breathable in a traditional build house as the walls are designed to breath.

    What weve done so far other than windows I've done the majority myself as part of wider renovation work, the cost of these hasnt been huge - the marginal cost of insulated plasterboard compared to normal plasterboard isnt too much, rolls of insulation for loft and under floorboards pretty cheap. obviously the extension and external wall insulation are much larger jobs and so will require cash and professionals (hence why we havent got to them yet).
  • Rob7Lee said:
    Thanks, will make sure not to have any by then as no way victorian conversion is getting that rating, fortunately lad will be 20 by then and hope to be in a position to gift him one so he can deal with it. Live in it then sell it hopefully and remove the hideous capital gains tax currently vested in it.
    Similar, all ours (Friendly society) bar a couple are pre 1900 built (we built them) and simply won't be cost effective in most instances and in some impossible. I'll see how it looks in detail over the coming 12 months but if it's a hard 'must be C' then suspect we'll start a slow sell off and move into other investments with an aim to be fully out by the end of 2028........ sorry Dartford.


    I hate to say it but this (landlords selling) is not necessarily a bad thing and an intended consequence of this, freeing up housing stock is a good thing. 

    There is talk about grants to improve the efficiency of houses.

    I bought a 1928 "traditional built" (no cavity) house at the start of 2022. The whole road is like this. Standard position was that I'd never get it above a D (2 contractors in the family told me this when I was buying) but having spoken to an expert in the field he basically said there is no house in the country that cant get to a C if not a B. It takes investment and its generally not cost effective for landlords but is very common across owner occupiers. There has been a massive change in our road since we moved in, about 10% have done external wall insulation, loads have talked about insulated plaster boarding inside, lots of people have done triple glazing. The rented houses aren't getting any of these upgrades done.

    On ours as we've been renovating we have upgraded bits as we've gone along, new windows (triple glazed), insulated plasterboard inside (learning to dot and dab plasterboard was an experience!), double the regs loft insulation, under floorboard insulation downstairs, draught proofing, new insulated front door and boarding the inside of the porch for an additional layer of insulation. When we have done the back of the house (ground floor extension and new windows) and done the external wall insulation our house will comfortably be a B rating. It is possible to do to old houses - only thing is to make sure the insulation is breathable in a traditional build house as the walls are designed to breath.

    What weve done so far other than windows I've done the majority myself as part of wider renovation work, the cost of these hasnt been huge - the marginal cost of insulated plasterboard compared to normal plasterboard isnt too much, rolls of insulation for loft and under floorboards pretty cheap. obviously the extension and external wall insulation are much larger jobs and so will require cash and professionals (hence why we havent got to them yet).
    I don't disagree, but I think it will cause at least short to medium term pain in the rental market (for renters) as there will be less property available for rent.

    There's already a huge shortage of rental property in many areas, we will get 100+ applicants if we advertise a property for a weekend. It's already getting worse as BTL's are beginning to sell, I get offered at least a handful a month via our managing agent in Dartford as he has landlords continuously selling. In this area it means rents continue to increase to almost embarrassing amounts quite frankly.

    as for any house can get to a C, I think that's likely true for 95% (we have 4 out of now 53 that i've been told are highly unlikely to get to a C without demolition!), but it's the cost to get there. Once you build in the cost, the likelihood that the majority (of ours) will need to be empty, therefore no rent for a period, it's simple not viable (I am governed by certain rules on returns, investments etc).

    We've known it's been coming, and as above i'll await the fuller details over the next 12 months, but suspect almost immediately if we have a tenant vacate we'll sell and likely begin to give notice to our tenants from 2026 onwards with a view to liquidating in good time before 2030, sadly many of our tenants have been with us for a decade or sometimes 2! We'll keep around 4 house we have as they are more modern one's we've bought within the past few years.


  • My current property is an E. I remember looking around Kidbrooke Village where they were A's. I presume that means in winter you can light a candle and it will heat the whole house. 

    Out of interest, what would it take to bring up an average old-build house to a C? Presumably it's a bit more than insulating the roof
  • Chunes said:
    My current property is an E. I remember looking around Kidbrooke Village where they were A's. I presume that means in winter you can light a candle and it will heat the whole house. 

    Out of interest, what would it take to bring up an average old-build house to a C? Presumably it's a bit more than insulating the roof
    It really varies but some examples:

    Roof insulation (all roofs, including flat/sloping roofs)
    Wall Insulation
    Floor insulation
    Heat Pump or new, very efficient boiler, no other heat sources and TRV's on all rads. Over a certain size then likely split into zones.
    100% low energy lighting

    2 & to a degree 3 above are my issues/difficulties.

  • With thanks to @Rob7Lee bringing this up on an earlier thread, we wasn't aware of the possible EPC regulation changes on rental properties.

    With both our 2 bed and 1 bed victorian conversion flats in Blackheath (in the same building) rated D, so when we started to investigate how much it would take to rectify matters, it was running into large numbers.  All the windows needed replacing, and the one bed had two flat roofs on it (it was a duplex!) and that alone was eye watering.

    Along with the incoming Govt possibly changing CGT rates and the rules potentially on Landlords, we decided the time was right to sell.  Thankfully both sales have completed in the last 3 months.

    We were really pleased the long term tennant of the 2 bed ended up buying it.  She was the easiest tennant we could have wished for just over 10 years.

    We felt a but guilty about serving notice on the tennant of the 1 bed but she ended up moving in with her boyfriend so everything happens for a reason!

    We may look to buy again in the future but more likely would go for a more modern build instead.

    Blimey this forum is really useful sometimes, cheers Rob!
  • Sponsored links:


  • Having needed to obtain a new EPC rating for a house sale, I was surprised that mine is currently rated a D (54 points) but could be uprated to a B (84 points).
    It's a terraced cottage from 1797 with solid brick, flint and chalk walls, mostly single-glazed and with a 1970s loft conversion that contains next to no insulation in its flat roof.
    To get the rating improved (which I'm going to leave for the buyers to do), the key recommendations are:

    Step 1: Room-in-roof insulation

    Typical installation cost
    £1,500 - £2,700
    Typical yearly saving £465
    Potential rating after completing step 1 - 66

    Step 2: Internal or external wall insulation

    Typical installation cost
    £4,000 - £14,000
    Typical yearly saving £85
    Potential rating after completing steps 1 and 2 - 67

    Step 3: Floor insulation (suspended floor)

    Typical installation cost
    £800 - £1,200
    Typical yearly saving £56
    Potential rating after completing steps 1 to 3 - 69

    Step 4: Draught proofing

    Typical installation cost
    £80 - £120
    Typical yearly saving £29
    Potential rating after completing steps 1 to 4 - 70

    Step 5: Solar water heating

    Typical installation cost
    £4,000 - £6,000
    Typical yearly saving £60
    Potential rating after completing steps 1 to 5 - 71

    Step 6: Double glazed windows

    Replace single glazed windows with low-E double glazed windows

    Typical installation cost
    £3,300 - £6,500
    Typical yearly saving £127
    Potential rating after completing steps 1 to 6 - 74

    Step 7: Solar photovoltaic panels, 2.5 kWp

    Typical installation cost
    £3,500 - £5,500
    Typical yearly saving £576
    Potential rating after completing steps 1 to 7: 84 B


    Of these, only steps 1 and 7 would make much difference to the rating, and the payback is good for both. But good luck insulating the flat roof, i can only just stand up in it as it is!
  • Is this now actually law or still in consultation? 

    I think law for resi but still in consultation on commercial (where something like 80% of UK office space would fail so the cost/time and viability is literally impossible to achieve in the timeline if it comes in).

    Tech is improving all the time but I suspect won't be affordable for the mass market in time for the deadline.

    Ultimately we live on a small island surrounded by water with tonnes of wind and a little sun.  Improve our green energy production which should be relatively simple and I am not sure why making houses more efficient then matters - to the environment - it would obviously cost less to run them which is a benefit.

    I am probably missing something.
  • Is this now actually law or still in consultation? 

    I think law for resi but still in consultation on commercial (where something like 80% of UK office space would fail so the cost/time and viability is literally impossible to achieve in the timeline if it comes in).

    Tech is improving all the time but I suspect won't be affordable for the mass market in time for the deadline.

    Ultimately we live on a small island surrounded by water with tonnes of wind and a little sun.  Improve our green energy production which should be relatively simple and I am not sure why making houses more efficient then matters - to the environment - it would obviously cost less to run them which is a benefit.

    I am probably missing something.
    It was due to come in, in 2028, Tories cancelled it, Labour had it in their manifesto and announced it at the conference. So not law yet. That's from a housing perspective, TBH I've never really followed the commercial side as not of concern for me.

    IdleHans said:

    Of these, only steps 1 and 7 would make much difference to the rating, and the payback is good for both. But good luck insulating the flat roof, i can only just stand up in it as it is!

    I'm always wary of those estimates, also the pay back is for the tenant, not the owner (in a BTL situation).

    Overall I'm not against improving the thermal efficiency etc of rental housing stock as frankly a lot are awful (inc social housing). But it just needs to be carefully thought out, and I'm not convinced it has been, what we don't need right now is less rental housing stock, which is what we will end up with. As aside from being even more difficult to find a rental property, those rents will be even more expensive.  

    I have a meeting early next month and no doubt we'll discuss and make a future plan, but I just can't see anything other than sell up at this juncture, returns aren't as great as many may think, we certainly earn a much better return (currently) with the cash in the bank.
  • edited September 25
    If anyone is looking for epc’s, gas certs, eicr checks, pat testing etc in future feel free to drop me a message

    I’ve only ever really discussed football on cl in the past but I work for Eco Approach who are one of the leading epc providers in the UK. I’ve worked there for just over 10 years now.

    As above we also provide your typical landlord services like eicr checks, gas certs boiler servicing etc. 

    I’m not an energy assessor myself but I am the sales manager there so happy to help and provide quotes etc.
  • I'm glad I sold mine when I did.
  • How is this going to affect the rental market? Most of the changes over the last few years seem to increase rents - won't this mean less properties for rent? Although if many are sold, because it isn't necessarily cost justifiable for landlords to do what is necessary, could that be to people who were renters, so less people wanting a property to rent overall?

    I've just checked mine and am relieved to see they are a B and a C - not worried about the one that is a B as a new build (Enderby Wharf) but not sure if anything could impact the C

    Anyone else had to go jump through hoops to get their Landlord Selective Licence? What are people's thoughts on it? Isn't there (rightly of course) already legislation in place to tackle rogue landlords
  • How is this going to affect the rental market? Most of the changes over the last few years seem to increase rents - won't this mean less properties for rent? Although if many are sold, because it isn't necessarily cost justifiable for landlords to do what is necessary, could that be to people who were renters, so less people wanting a property to rent overall?

    I've just checked mine and am relieved to see they are a B and a C - not worried about the one that is a B as a new build (Enderby Wharf) but not sure if anything could impact the C

    Anyone else had to go jump through hoops to get their Landlord Selective Licence? What are people's thoughts on it? Isn't there (rightly of course) already legislation in place to tackle rogue landlords
    My stepfather rents out a few properties and his view is that pretty much every change made by the Tories and those planned by Labour has had or will have the effect of shrinking the supply of rental properties and raising the rental values on those that remain. Given that the changes were supposedly made to benefit renters, not really sure how that is working out. 
  • I'm a SAP assessor that produces EPCs on New Builds & Conversions. One massively irritating thing with the new building regulations is scaring people off from using highly efficient mains gas fired boilers on conversion projects (you're still allowed to use gas boilers but a lot of public don't believe this to be the case). People therefore put in panel heaters/electric boilers which cost an absolute fortune to run.

    The SAP/EPC Rating of a dwelling is heavily derived from the end running costs so even with a very well insulated dwelling you can get poor SAP Ratings by having an incredibly costly heating system. When the new Part L (2021) came in on the 15th June the unit cost of electricity was sky high so this is reflected on EPCs when using electric heating. Even heat pumps whilst miles better than panel heaters/electric boilers still don't perform as well as a highly efficient mains gas boiler from an EPC rating perspective in most cases.
  • Short term it’ll have a negative effect for renters, as generally a landlord will sell vacant possession. If we sell at the same time all 50, then for a period that’s 50 empty houses that once housed renters. Longer term of course they go back into the system but unlikely they will all be bought by people currently renting, no doubt the rental stock will reduce at a time when we need more rental properties. I could literally buy 100 houses in Dartford and rent them all no issue and very quickly.

    the answer of course is to build a lot of social housing, but no way that’s happening anytime soon in the right places.

    i also think EPC alone is the wrong target. We’ve just bought a newish build, already rated C but the place is a hovel!! We’ll of course be refurbishing it, but could easily rent as is if we wanted. So great it’s energy efficient, but I wouldn’t live there as is!!
  • There are lots and lots of exemptions for dwellings that cannot achieve the required C rating just FYI - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/domestic-private-rented-property-minimum-energy-efficiency-standard-landlord-guidance#registering-an-exemption

    These range from 'All relevant improvements made' to 'High Cost' - if the cost of the works of the cheapest recommended improvement is over £3500.00 then you can be exempt.


  • Sponsored links:


  • Rizzo said:
    How is this going to affect the rental market? Most of the changes over the last few years seem to increase rents - won't this mean less properties for rent? Although if many are sold, because it isn't necessarily cost justifiable for landlords to do what is necessary, could that be to people who were renters, so less people wanting a property to rent overall?

    I've just checked mine and am relieved to see they are a B and a C - not worried about the one that is a B as a new build (Enderby Wharf) but not sure if anything could impact the C

    Anyone else had to go jump through hoops to get their Landlord Selective Licence? What are people's thoughts on it? Isn't there (rightly of course) already legislation in place to tackle rogue landlords
    My stepfather rents out a few properties and his view is that pretty much every change made by the Tories and those planned by Labour has had or will have the effect of shrinking the supply of rental properties and raising the rental values on those that remain. Given that the changes were supposedly made to benefit renters, not really sure how that is working out. 
    this is what I was thinking. Someone has to pay for all the costs
  • Rizzo said:
    How is this going to affect the rental market? Most of the changes over the last few years seem to increase rents - won't this mean less properties for rent? Although if many are sold, because it isn't necessarily cost justifiable for landlords to do what is necessary, could that be to people who were renters, so less people wanting a property to rent overall?

    I've just checked mine and am relieved to see they are a B and a C - not worried about the one that is a B as a new build (Enderby Wharf) but not sure if anything could impact the C

    Anyone else had to go jump through hoops to get their Landlord Selective Licence? What are people's thoughts on it? Isn't there (rightly of course) already legislation in place to tackle rogue landlords
    My stepfather rents out a few properties and his view is that pretty much every change made by the Tories and those planned by Labour has had or will have the effect of shrinking the supply of rental properties and raising the rental values on those that remain. Given that the changes were supposedly made to benefit renters, not really sure how that is working out. 
    this is what I was thinking. Someone has to pay for all the costs
    And let's face it, it was never going to be the landlords!
  • Personally, I think anything ‘climate change’ driven will get put back.

    Any government led project or ‘initiative’ is doomed to failure, may never happen, mismanagement, seriously under costed or bound to created unintended negative consequences - select as many as appropriate.

    if they really want to improve the rental market, number and quality of properties and affordability then the only way that will ever happen if there is a financial incentive for private money to latch on to. Do that and the problem goes away pretty quickly.



  • edited September 26
    I'm glad I sold mine when I did.
    We have just spent 14k on one of our properties in Gloucester. Before we did it we worked out the economics and of course thought who was about to become head of this country and was it worth continuing, particularly as the tenant has broken one of the patio door leading to the conservatory which we are having to inspect tomorrow.

    It will take us 18 months of no issue problems to get our money back.

    I think we will sell once this tenancy is up. Anyone who thinks being a landlord is laughing all the way to the bank should give it a try.

    We have all of the above but as stated we shall probably not be landlords in 6 years time.
  • Rizzo said:
    Rizzo said:
    How is this going to affect the rental market? Most of the changes over the last few years seem to increase rents - won't this mean less properties for rent? Although if many are sold, because it isn't necessarily cost justifiable for landlords to do what is necessary, could that be to people who were renters, so less people wanting a property to rent overall?

    I've just checked mine and am relieved to see they are a B and a C - not worried about the one that is a B as a new build (Enderby Wharf) but not sure if anything could impact the C

    Anyone else had to go jump through hoops to get their Landlord Selective Licence? What are people's thoughts on it? Isn't there (rightly of course) already legislation in place to tackle rogue landlords
    My stepfather rents out a few properties and his view is that pretty much every change made by the Tories and those planned by Labour has had or will have the effect of shrinking the supply of rental properties and raising the rental values on those that remain. Given that the changes were supposedly made to benefit renters, not really sure how that is working out. 
    this is what I was thinking. Someone has to pay for all the costs
    And let's face it, it was never going to be the landlords!
    and why should it be?
  • I'm glad I sold mine when I did.
    We have just spent 14k on one of our properties in Gloucester. Before we did it we worked out the economics and of course thought who was about to become head of this country and was it worth continuing, particularly as the tenant has broken one of the patio door leading to the conservatory which we are having to inspect tomorrow.

    It will take us 18 months of no issue problems to get our money back.

    I think we will sell once this tenancy is up. Anyone who thinks being a landlord is laughing all the way to the bank should give it a try.

    We have all of the above but as stated we shall probably not be landlords in 6 years time.
    I'm going to sell up in a few years too
  • Got 3, will sell at least 1 in the next 2 to 3 years to put a bit more cash in the savings pot. Not too worried about CGT as they have not gone up that much. Again like others we have been impacted by piss poor tenants who basically couldn't give a shit and have cost us a fortune. Some people really do live like pigs.....
  • edited September 26
    Rizzo said:
    Rizzo said:
    How is this going to affect the rental market? Most of the changes over the last few years seem to increase rents - won't this mean less properties for rent? Although if many are sold, because it isn't necessarily cost justifiable for landlords to do what is necessary, could that be to people who were renters, so less people wanting a property to rent overall?

    I've just checked mine and am relieved to see they are a B and a C - not worried about the one that is a B as a new build (Enderby Wharf) but not sure if anything could impact the C

    Anyone else had to go jump through hoops to get their Landlord Selective Licence? What are people's thoughts on it? Isn't there (rightly of course) already legislation in place to tackle rogue landlords
    My stepfather rents out a few properties and his view is that pretty much every change made by the Tories and those planned by Labour has had or will have the effect of shrinking the supply of rental properties and raising the rental values on those that remain. Given that the changes were supposedly made to benefit renters, not really sure how that is working out. 
    this is what I was thinking. Someone has to pay for all the costs
    And let's face it, it was never going to be the landlords!
    and why should it be?
    I'm not saying it should. I was more commenting on the ridiculousness of all the measures brought in by central and local government supposedly to help out renters, that will inevitably result in fewer properties and higher rents. If anyone in government thought that landlords would just swallow the additional costs without passing them onto tenants, they need a checkup from the neck up. 
  • Rizzo said:
    Rizzo said:
    Rizzo said:
    How is this going to affect the rental market? Most of the changes over the last few years seem to increase rents - won't this mean less properties for rent? Although if many are sold, because it isn't necessarily cost justifiable for landlords to do what is necessary, could that be to people who were renters, so less people wanting a property to rent overall?

    I've just checked mine and am relieved to see they are a B and a C - not worried about the one that is a B as a new build (Enderby Wharf) but not sure if anything could impact the C

    Anyone else had to go jump through hoops to get their Landlord Selective Licence? What are people's thoughts on it? Isn't there (rightly of course) already legislation in place to tackle rogue landlords
    My stepfather rents out a few properties and his view is that pretty much every change made by the Tories and those planned by Labour has had or will have the effect of shrinking the supply of rental properties and raising the rental values on those that remain. Given that the changes were supposedly made to benefit renters, not really sure how that is working out. 
    this is what I was thinking. Someone has to pay for all the costs
    And let's face it, it was never going to be the landlords!
    and why should it be?
    I'm not saying it should. I was more commenting on the ridiculousness of all the measures brought in by central and local government supposedly to help out renters, that will inevitably result in fewer properties and higher rents. If anyone in government thought that landlords would just swallow the additional costs without passing them onto tenants, they need a checkup from the neck up. 
    If the tenant's rent costs are roughly equivalent to their reduction in heating costs, then everyone wins, at no cost to the tax payer. The tenant lives in a "better" home; the landlord owns a "better" asset; the government increases income, through the tax paid by the landlord on the increased rent (as tax gained on heating costs is lower).  
Sign In or Register to comment.

Roland Out Forever!