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Even when we get the right manager we cock it up.
MuttleyCAFC
Posts: 47,742
I was thinking back on previous managers. In reality since 2010 we have had two decent ones and maybe a couple that weren't given a proper chance. But in terms of the decent ones, they were badly let down by those running the club at the time. Powell was on a path to promotion IMO when Cash pulled out his cash, then he was undermined by Roland. Bowyer was on an upward path and Roland decided he wasn't going to ride the unexpected promotion wave that he had created and destroyed all that to the point Bowyer had experienced too much and needed to go for his own good when he did. If we do get a good manager, we always have too many a*holes somewhere or other to mess it all up. I listened to Rodwell last year and my bullshit meter went off the scale. Jones has a record of great success or falling into the sea in flames. But if he achieves the former he is going to fall out with somebody before long and we will be back to square one isn't he? I'd like to support a club that was an a*hole free zone but it is looking like an impossibility. Is anybody out there feeling better about things and can cheer me up?
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We could have guardiola and Birmingham’s budget and we’d still probably end up mid-table in league 117
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Thats not cheering me up. But I think you are right.NabySarr said:We could have guardiola and Birmingham’s budget and we’d still probably end up mid-table in league 10 -
I think it’s important to find a manager with a track record of previous successes because that proves that they can do it. Journeyman managers like Appleton gives you only a very small chance of success. Practically every manager and certainly those that would be available to us will have a crash and burn on their CV too. It’s either that or get lucky with a newbie like Curbs, Bowyer or Powell. I think that there might be an issue that’s peculiar to Jones in that he’s about as passionate as it gets bordering on batshit crazy. His way or the highway and I’d guess liked or loathed by his players and difficult when it’s going wrong.2
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Not going to cheer you up, but I suspect that most of the fans of the 92 clubs feel like this. Few clubs ever win anything and there are a few that have never even been in the 2nd tier let alone a few seasons at the top table. Got a feeling you are of my generation (apologies if you are not an old git) and we have seen some of the greatest days in the clubs history. I feel sorry for thos that have not had memories prior to 2006.MuttleyCAFC said:I was thinking back on previous managers. In reality since 2010 we have had two decent ones and maybe a couple that weren't given a proper chance. But in terms of the decent ones, they were badly let down by those running the club at the time. Powell was on a path to promotion IMO when Cash pulled out his cash, then he was undermined by Roland. Bowyer was on an upward path and Roland decided he wasn't going to ride the unexpected promotion wave that he had created and destroyed all that to the point Bowyer had experienced too much and needed to go for his own good when he did. If we do get a good manager, we always have too many a*holes somewhere or other to mess it all up. I listened to Rodwell last year and my bullshit meter went off the scale. Jones has a record of great success or falling into the sea in flames. But if he achieves the former he is going to fall out with somebody before long and we will be back to square one isn't he? I'd like to support a club that was an a*hole free zone but it is looking like an impossibility. Is anybody out there feeling better about things and can cheer me up?2 -
We could have the 1970 Brazil team managed by a 2004-era Mourinho and we would still be hoping "to nick something" at Cheltenham away to secure 14th place.3
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I think the biggest error this club has made is failing to utilise the expertise and experience of arguably the greatest manager we’ve ever had.18
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No, we've suffered more than fans of any other League club. It's a scientific fact, I've had it verified. Bradford City is the only other club in the conversation and they came out as 'slightly less cursed' when the computer spat out the dataKap10 said:
Not going to cheer you up, but I suspect that most of the fans of the 92 clubs feel like this. Few clubs ever win anything and there are a few that have never even been in the 2nd tier let alone a few seasons at the top table. Got a feeling you are of my generation (apologies if you are not an old git) and we have seen some of the greatest days in the clubs history. I feel sorry for thos that have not had memories prior to 2006.MuttleyCAFC said:I was thinking back on previous managers. In reality since 2010 we have had two decent ones and maybe a couple that weren't given a proper chance. But in terms of the decent ones, they were badly let down by those running the club at the time. Powell was on a path to promotion IMO when Cash pulled out his cash, then he was undermined by Roland. Bowyer was on an upward path and Roland decided he wasn't going to ride the unexpected promotion wave that he had created and destroyed all that to the point Bowyer had experienced too much and needed to go for his own good when he did. If we do get a good manager, we always have too many a*holes somewhere or other to mess it all up. I listened to Rodwell last year and my bullshit meter went off the scale. Jones has a record of great success or falling into the sea in flames. But if he achieves the former he is going to fall out with somebody before long and we will be back to square one isn't he? I'd like to support a club that was an a*hole free zone but it is looking like an impossibility. Is anybody out there feeling better about things and can cheer me up?6 -
I am indeed officially an old git sadly.Kap10 said:
Not going to cheer you up, but I suspect that most of the fans of the 92 clubs feel like this. Few clubs ever win anything and there are a few that have never even been in the 2nd tier let alone a few seasons at the top table. Got a feeling you are of my generation (apologies if you are not an old git) and we have seen some of the greatest days in the clubs history. I feel sorry for thos that have not had memories prior to 2006.MuttleyCAFC said:I was thinking back on previous managers. In reality since 2010 we have had two decent ones and maybe a couple that weren't given a proper chance. But in terms of the decent ones, they were badly let down by those running the club at the time. Powell was on a path to promotion IMO when Cash pulled out his cash, then he was undermined by Roland. Bowyer was on an upward path and Roland decided he wasn't going to ride the unexpected promotion wave that he had created and destroyed all that to the point Bowyer had experienced too much and needed to go for his own good when he did. If we do get a good manager, we always have too many a*holes somewhere or other to mess it all up. I listened to Rodwell last year and my bullshit meter went off the scale. Jones has a record of great success or falling into the sea in flames. But if he achieves the former he is going to fall out with somebody before long and we will be back to square one isn't he? I'd like to support a club that was an a*hole free zone but it is looking like an impossibility. Is anybody out there feeling better about things and can cheer me up?2 -
But that is part of the point, a*holes who think they know best!ShootersHillGuru said:I think the biggest error this club has made is failing to utilise the expertise and experience of arguably the greatest manager we’ve ever had.2 -
The worst thing is, I and many others were convinced this was the season we'd be good. Then we won our first 3 games and only two weeks ago we were top two. The speed at which it's gone irrevocably down the plughole is genuinely impressive10
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Jesus, give it a rest. Let the guy crack on with his career back in Belgium as a teacherShootersHillGuru said:I think the biggest error this club has made is failing to utilise the expertise and experience of arguably the greatest manager we’ve ever had.
……Upon reflection, I’m not sure if you were talking about mr Fraeye!15 -
Which means that form can change again at an equal rate?Leuth said:The worst thing is, I and many others were convinced this was the season we'd be good. Then we won our first 3 games and only two weeks ago we were top two. The speed at which it's gone irrevocably down the plughole is genuinely impressive3 -
If Barnsley hadn't scored that injury time winner against Brentford, or we hadn't conceded that last gasp equaliser against Birmingham then the last fours years of our checkered history might have been completely different.Hey Ho!8
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And who do I blame? Not really the SMT. They appointed someone who could reasonably have been thought of as a good manager and provided ample funds for player signings and wages. Do I blame Jones? Actually I do a bit. He's built a squad whose limitations his playing style hasn't been able to compensate for, and he's clearly antagonising them one by one as he sinks deeper into madness, knowing this is probably his last shot to be regarded as a serious management option. But most of all? I blame the vibe. We exude the stench of death, and at this point I don't know what can pull us out of it. The second anything goes wrong, catastrophe is a self-fulfilling prophecyLeuth said:The worst thing is, I and many others were convinced this was the season we'd be good. Then we won our first 3 games and only two weeks ago we were top two. The speed at which it's gone irrevocably down the plughole is genuinely impressive6 -
to this day that Barnsley goal at Brentford still irritates the f*ck out of mebobmunro said:If Barnsley hadn't scored that injury time winner against Brentford, or we hadn't conceded that last gasp equaliser against Birmingham then the last fours years of our checkered history might have been completely different.Hey Ho!10 -
He died back in 1966, though, makes it tricky.ShootersHillGuru said:I think the biggest error this club has made is failing to utilise the expertise and experience of arguably the greatest manager we’ve ever had.
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I don’t have much faith that Sandgaard would have kept us in the championship anywayElthamaddick said:
to this day that Barnsley goal at Brentford still irritates the f*ck out of mebobmunro said:If Barnsley hadn't scored that injury time winner against Brentford, or we hadn't conceded that last gasp equaliser against Birmingham then the last fours years of our checkered history might have been completely different.Hey Ho!2 -
“Irrevocably down the plug hole”Leuth said:
And who do I blame? Not really the SMT. They appointed someone who could reasonably have been thought of as a good manager and provided ample funds for player signings and wages. Do I blame Jones? Actually I do a bit. He's built a squad whose limitations his playing style hasn't been able to compensate for, and he's clearly antagonising them one by one as he sinks deeper into madness, knowing this is probably his last shot to be regarded as a serious management option. But most of all? I blame the vibe. We exude the stench of death, and at this point I don't know what can pull us out of it. The second anything goes wrong, catastrophe is a self-fulfilling prophecyLeuth said:The worst thing is, I and many others were convinced this was the season we'd be good. Then we won our first 3 games and only two weeks ago we were top two. The speed at which it's gone irrevocably down the plughole is genuinely impressive
”Exude the stench of death”
This is filling me with the belief that I might actually be right to be staying positive about our long term prospects for once. If you’re on Leuth’s side, you’re probably wrong..!A few rocky results have all come at once. Fans are getting twitchy because we’ve seen this go sideways before and they’re projecting their uneasy sentiments onto the players. I don’t think we suffer the same fate under Nathan Jones as we have under Adkins, Garner, Holden and Appleton. It’s a long season, still firmly believe we’ll be in the top six picture by March / April.5 -
Excuse me for this, but you're in America aren't you? You have access to the xG stats but you don't attend games? ('hurr hurr if you're on Leuth's side you're probably wrong' well touche mate.) Trust me, this is going down in flames. It's already started and when it starts with us it's impossible to stop.Callumcafc said:
“Irrevocably down the plug hole”Leuth said:
And who do I blame? Not really the SMT. They appointed someone who could reasonably have been thought of as a good manager and provided ample funds for player signings and wages. Do I blame Jones? Actually I do a bit. He's built a squad whose limitations his playing style hasn't been able to compensate for, and he's clearly antagonising them one by one as he sinks deeper into madness, knowing this is probably his last shot to be regarded as a serious management option. But most of all? I blame the vibe. We exude the stench of death, and at this point I don't know what can pull us out of it. The second anything goes wrong, catastrophe is a self-fulfilling prophecyLeuth said:The worst thing is, I and many others were convinced this was the season we'd be good. Then we won our first 3 games and only two weeks ago we were top two. The speed at which it's gone irrevocably down the plughole is genuinely impressive
”Exude the stench of death”
This is filling me with the belief that I might actually be right to be staying positive about our long term prospects for once. If you’re on Leuth’s side, you’re probably wrong..!A few rocky results have all come at once. Fans are getting twitchy because we’ve seen this go sideways before and they’re projecting their uneasy sentiments onto the players. I don’t think we suffer the same fate under Nathan Jones as we have under Adkins, Garner, Holden and Appleton. It’s a long season, still firmly believe we’ll be in the top six picture by March / April.1 -
Just in case you missed it.Callumcafc said:
“Irrevocably down the plug hole”Leuth said:
And who do I blame? Not really the SMT. They appointed someone who could reasonably have been thought of as a good manager and provided ample funds for player signings and wages. Do I blame Jones? Actually I do a bit. He's built a squad whose limitations his playing style hasn't been able to compensate for, and he's clearly antagonising them one by one as he sinks deeper into madness, knowing this is probably his last shot to be regarded as a serious management option. But most of all? I blame the vibe. We exude the stench of death, and at this point I don't know what can pull us out of it. The second anything goes wrong, catastrophe is a self-fulfilling prophecyLeuth said:The worst thing is, I and many others were convinced this was the season we'd be good. Then we won our first 3 games and only two weeks ago we were top two. The speed at which it's gone irrevocably down the plughole is genuinely impressive
”Exude the stench of death”
This is filling me with the belief that I might actually be right to be staying positive about our long term prospects for once. If you’re on Leuth’s side, you’re probably wrong..!A few rocky results have all come at once. Fans are getting twitchy because we’ve seen this go sideways before and they’re projecting their uneasy sentiments onto the players. I don’t think we suffer the same fate under Nathan Jones as we have under Adkins, Garner, Holden and Appleton. It’s a long season, still firmly believe we’ll be in the top six picture by March / April.
We have just lost 3 games on the trot against poor opposition.
Our next 3 or 4 games are against much tougher opposition.
We are currently 13th in the league and playing crap football.
I fully expect to be even lower come the end of October.
Leuth is correct in his assessment.5 -
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(I'll add that I'd love to be wrong and that we're gonna somehow win on Saturday and then get 4 points out of Barnsley and Stockport, but honestly? I think we're going to lose all three games, and that Jones will have to be sacked)0
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There’s an argument to be made that being detached from all the emotions that come with being there in person allows for more objective thought on our shortcomings but I’ll leave that to the side. :-)Leuth said:
Excuse me for this, but you're in America aren't you? You have access to the xG stats but you don't attend games? ('hurr hurr if you're on Leuth's side you're probably wrong' well touche mate.) Trust me, this is going down in flames. It's already started and when it starts with us it's impossible to stop.Callumcafc said:
“Irrevocably down the plug hole”Leuth said:
And who do I blame? Not really the SMT. They appointed someone who could reasonably have been thought of as a good manager and provided ample funds for player signings and wages. Do I blame Jones? Actually I do a bit. He's built a squad whose limitations his playing style hasn't been able to compensate for, and he's clearly antagonising them one by one as he sinks deeper into madness, knowing this is probably his last shot to be regarded as a serious management option. But most of all? I blame the vibe. We exude the stench of death, and at this point I don't know what can pull us out of it. The second anything goes wrong, catastrophe is a self-fulfilling prophecyLeuth said:The worst thing is, I and many others were convinced this was the season we'd be good. Then we won our first 3 games and only two weeks ago we were top two. The speed at which it's gone irrevocably down the plughole is genuinely impressive
”Exude the stench of death”
This is filling me with the belief that I might actually be right to be staying positive about our long term prospects for once. If you’re on Leuth’s side, you’re probably wrong..!A few rocky results have all come at once. Fans are getting twitchy because we’ve seen this go sideways before and they’re projecting their uneasy sentiments onto the players. I don’t think we suffer the same fate under Nathan Jones as we have under Adkins, Garner, Holden and Appleton. It’s a long season, still firmly believe we’ll be in the top six picture by March / April.0 -
If Leuth is correct and the situation is irrevocable, do you support sacking Nathan Jones today?blackpool72 said:
Just in case you missed it.Callumcafc said:
“Irrevocably down the plug hole”Leuth said:
And who do I blame? Not really the SMT. They appointed someone who could reasonably have been thought of as a good manager and provided ample funds for player signings and wages. Do I blame Jones? Actually I do a bit. He's built a squad whose limitations his playing style hasn't been able to compensate for, and he's clearly antagonising them one by one as he sinks deeper into madness, knowing this is probably his last shot to be regarded as a serious management option. But most of all? I blame the vibe. We exude the stench of death, and at this point I don't know what can pull us out of it. The second anything goes wrong, catastrophe is a self-fulfilling prophecyLeuth said:The worst thing is, I and many others were convinced this was the season we'd be good. Then we won our first 3 games and only two weeks ago we were top two. The speed at which it's gone irrevocably down the plughole is genuinely impressive
”Exude the stench of death”
This is filling me with the belief that I might actually be right to be staying positive about our long term prospects for once. If you’re on Leuth’s side, you’re probably wrong..!A few rocky results have all come at once. Fans are getting twitchy because we’ve seen this go sideways before and they’re projecting their uneasy sentiments onto the players. I don’t think we suffer the same fate under Nathan Jones as we have under Adkins, Garner, Holden and Appleton. It’s a long season, still firmly believe we’ll be in the top six picture by March / April.
We have just lost 3 games on the trot against poor opposition.
Our next 3 or 4 games are against much tougher opposition.
We are currently 13th in the league and playing crap football.
I fully expect to be even lower come the end of October.
Leuth is correct in his assessment.
With regard to the results of our upcoming games, we will see how they play out. One of those much tougher opponents just lost 1-0 at Stevenage three days after we lost 1-0 at Stevenage.0 -
And therefore conversely if we won 3 out of our next 4 we'd likely to be top 6 & only a few points off top 2.Leuth said:The worst thing is, I and many others were convinced this was the season we'd be good. Then we won our first 3 games and only two weeks ago we were top two. The speed at which it's gone irrevocably down the plughole is genuinely impressive
Imo Nathan Jones needs to be given time & hopefully he'll realise he's made mistakes and rectify them. I'd love him to go 442 or 4312 and get the players creating chances for the main 2 strikers of Leaburn & Godden.
We aren't that far away.6 -
I support sacking Nathan Jones after a particularly cathartic sacrificial defeat. Losing in the last minute to Northampton was an absolutely incredible way to expunge Appleton, for example. If Rovers had turned 3-0 into 5-0 rather than 3-2 then this would be a great time.
Birmingham City is very promising though. If they gub us, with 2 weeks to go until the next game, it'd be a perfect moment for it. And if we play unexpectedly well and get a result, well, that's nice - vindication really. Worst-case scenario is a narrow or heaven forfend 'battling' defeat, which, because we're cursed, is almost certainly what's going to happen0 -
This.Elthamaddick said:
to this day that Barnsley goal at Brentford still irritates the f*ck out of mebobmunro said:If Barnsley hadn't scored that injury time winner against Brentford, or we hadn't conceded that last gasp equaliser against Birmingham then the last fours years of our checkered history might have been completely different.Hey Ho!
My son has an irrational hatred of Thomas Frank & Brentford & swears blind we were seconds away from staying up if it wasn't for the "tactician & his white board"1 -
With regards to sacking Nathan Jones it's a tricky one.Callumcafc said:
If Leuth is correct and the situation is irrevocable, do you support sacking Nathan Jones today?blackpool72 said:
Just in case you missed it.Callumcafc said:
“Irrevocably down the plug hole”Leuth said:
And who do I blame? Not really the SMT. They appointed someone who could reasonably have been thought of as a good manager and provided ample funds for player signings and wages. Do I blame Jones? Actually I do a bit. He's built a squad whose limitations his playing style hasn't been able to compensate for, and he's clearly antagonising them one by one as he sinks deeper into madness, knowing this is probably his last shot to be regarded as a serious management option. But most of all? I blame the vibe. We exude the stench of death, and at this point I don't know what can pull us out of it. The second anything goes wrong, catastrophe is a self-fulfilling prophecyLeuth said:The worst thing is, I and many others were convinced this was the season we'd be good. Then we won our first 3 games and only two weeks ago we were top two. The speed at which it's gone irrevocably down the plughole is genuinely impressive
”Exude the stench of death”
This is filling me with the belief that I might actually be right to be staying positive about our long term prospects for once. If you’re on Leuth’s side, you’re probably wrong..!A few rocky results have all come at once. Fans are getting twitchy because we’ve seen this go sideways before and they’re projecting their uneasy sentiments onto the players. I don’t think we suffer the same fate under Nathan Jones as we have under Adkins, Garner, Holden and Appleton. It’s a long season, still firmly believe we’ll be in the top six picture by March / April.
We have just lost 3 games on the trot against poor opposition.
Our next 3 or 4 games are against much tougher opposition.
We are currently 13th in the league and playing crap football.
I fully expect to be even lower come the end of October.
Leuth is correct in his assessment.
With regard to the results of our upcoming games, we will see how they play out.
Changing manager every season like we have been doing is obviously not working.
There comes a time when you have to back a manager and give him time to get the job done.
But if we fail to win any of our next 3 or 4 games and drop ever lower down the table the atmosphere in the crowd will definitely turn against him.
How long the SMT will be prepared to let the situation continue I have no idea.
But if things have not improved come Xmas I expect he will get the push.3 -
I've hated Brentford with a passion since that day. Missed a bloody open goal when it was 1-1 too.bobmunro said:If Barnsley hadn't scored that injury time winner against Brentford, or we hadn't conceded that last gasp equaliser against Birmingham then the last fours years of our checkered history might have been completely different.Hey Ho!2 -
surely he has to get the season?!?!.....we'd become even more of a joke than we are if we sack him.
FWIW I don't think we're under any pressure of relegation, not many managers turn things around in a single transfer window and surely the most successful ones are given a bit of time and 2/3 windows to complete the rebuild.
don't get me wrong, the football is absolutely sh*t at the moment - but I'm clinging onto the fact he's had previous success and he'll have it again.
I actually like the fella and I'm sure we all want him to succeed8 -
Agreed 100% that is the worse thing about the situation.Leuth said:The worst thing is, I and many others were convinced this was the season we'd be good. Then we won our first 3 games and only two weeks ago we were top two. The speed at which it's gone irrevocably down the plughole is genuinely impressive
For once I think most of us believed that this would be our season before a ball was kicked as we now had a Manager that knows what he is doing and the owners were spending on investment not just on players who on paper seemed ideal for a promotion tilt but also on club infrastructure. The 1st 3 games reinforced this and we were home and dry for promotion. Then the wheels fell off ( I cant work out whats happened ) and the shocking fact that maybe we arent getting promoted and maybe the Manager or new much praised new players are not what they were supposed to be has hit me like a train ! and it is totally depressing, far more so than previous seasons when expectations were more in hope than certainty.
This is coming from someone who honestly doesnt crave Premiership football for my club ( I couldnt bear getting thumped every week lol) a decent Championship side would do me great but Im starting to think it will never happen again2
