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Duchatelet is THE Problem
Comments
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carly burn said:arny23394 said:Can anyone explain the correlation between owning a stadium and being successful on the pitch. Man City don’t own their stadium and they do alright.The problem is we keep signing shit players and employing shit managers.
It's a completely different story for the clubs in the lower echelons. The ground is the base from which to build the brand. Or at least keep It ticking over.It is a lifeline and an important one.
Look at Wrexham. They are on their way to bigger and brighter things, but what did the owners do early on? Reunite the club with the ground.
It's an expensive exercise, but one that Ryan Reynolds and his people realised they needed to do. I don't get the impression it is at the top of this lots list for that very reason.4 -
PeanutsMolloy said:ElfsborgAddick said:Any owners that we have who do not purchase The Valley will surely hinder our prospects on the pitch.
With the lease winding down rapidly I can see a bleak future unless someone comes in and buys everything.
We’ve had enough experience of that but the current owners are not shysters.
Their intentions are good, the plans sensible and the money is there. Whether Jones is a sound appointment to achieve their immediate objectives is another matter.
What happens when the money men ask questions on why we are being outperformed by Mansfield, Lincoln, Exeter etc? They’ll either believe the wise sages that are making our football decisions or not. If they don’t then I see them pulling the money and walking away or appointing people into those roles who are just as effective as those who’ve had those roles over the last 10-15 years.
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paulbaconsarnie said:PeanutsMolloy said:ElfsborgAddick said:Any owners that we have who do not purchase The Valley will surely hinder our prospects on the pitch.
With the lease winding down rapidly I can see a bleak future unless someone comes in and buys everything.
We’ve had enough experience of that but the current owners are not shysters.
Their intentions are good, the plans sensible and the money is there. Whether Jones is a sound appointment to achieve their immediate objectives is another matter.
What happens when the money men ask questions on why we are being outperformed by Mansfield, Lincoln, Exeter etc? They’ll either believe the wise sages that are making our football decisions or not. If they don’t then I see them pulling the money and walking away or appointing people into those roles who are just as effective as those who’ve had those roles over the last 10-15 years.10 -
paulbaconsarnie said:PeanutsMolloy said:ElfsborgAddick said:Any owners that we have who do not purchase The Valley will surely hinder our prospects on the pitch.
With the lease winding down rapidly I can see a bleak future unless someone comes in and buys everything.
We’ve had enough experience of that but the current owners are not shysters.
Their intentions are good, the plans sensible and the money is there. Whether Jones is a sound appointment to achieve their immediate objectives is another matter.
What happens when the money men ask questions on why we are being outperformed by Mansfield, Lincoln, Exeter etc? They’ll either believe the wise sages that are making our football decisions or not. If they don’t then I see them pulling the money and walking away or appointing people into those roles who are just as effective as those who’ve had those roles over the last 10-15 years.
At the price tag for the Club alone we’re continually vulnerable.
But, especially for a League 1 club, buying a London-based ground at anything like Duchatelet’s asking price is a lousy return on investment (or if you like lousy deployment of scarce resources), at least in the short term.
Please stop bashing the non-playing management.It’s not the doddle people think it is.2 -
Stu_of_Kunming said:paulbaconsarnie said:PeanutsMolloy said:ElfsborgAddick said:Any owners that we have who do not purchase The Valley will surely hinder our prospects on the pitch.
With the lease winding down rapidly I can see a bleak future unless someone comes in and buys everything.
We’ve had enough experience of that but the current owners are not shysters.
Their intentions are good, the plans sensible and the money is there. Whether Jones is a sound appointment to achieve their immediate objectives is another matter.
What happens when the money men ask questions on why we are being outperformed by Mansfield, Lincoln, Exeter etc? They’ll either believe the wise sages that are making our football decisions or not. If they don’t then I see them pulling the money and walking away or appointing people into those roles who are just as effective as those who’ve had those roles over the last 10-15 years.0 -
Duchatelet was the main contributor to the problem and still has an influence on it. The solution as far as I am concerened has always been success which has been elusive.1
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How did Coventry sail through divisions past us without owning their ground? Why can't we replicate their success?5
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I think the old bastard put a curse on us, we will never get anywhere until he falls off the perch...4
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paulbaconsarnie said:PeanutsMolloy said:ElfsborgAddick said:Any owners that we have who do not purchase The Valley will surely hinder our prospects on the pitch.
With the lease winding down rapidly I can see a bleak future unless someone comes in and buys everything.
We’ve had enough experience of that but the current owners are not shysters.
Their intentions are good, the plans sensible and the money is there. Whether Jones is a sound appointment to achieve their immediate objectives is another matter.
What happens when the money men ask questions on why we are being outperformed by Mansfield, Lincoln, Exeter etc? They’ll either believe the wise sages that are making our football decisions or not. If they don’t then I see them pulling the money and walking away or appointing people into those roles who are just as effective as those who’ve had those roles over the last 10-15 years.
Everything they've put in up to now is sunk gone spent, there's categorically no pulling that back
If they reduced the budget they're prepared to use to maintain/improve the club, what can their possible outcomes be then?
Any club is dependent on the persistence of its main banker(s)
Methven made it pretty clear that the major barrier to reuniting club & real estate is the douchebag's deluded valuation. The existing lease is manageable/sensible so real estate simply isn't a priority in the project.
The operating budget provided by the current consortium hasn't been spent any more effectively than Skintgaard's or douchebag's, Southall obviously had no budget at all - quite the reverse, so we linger at the wrong end of division 3 watching truly shitty 'football'. We'll find out if the current owners are as trigger happy with managers as we've seen before or whether they'll try relative stability as a tactic rather than the hire/fire/rinse/repeat which has brought us down to this dismal level.
It is self-evident that recruitment remains woefully substandard. As supporters we can only guess where the responsibility for choosing so many duffers over so many windows actually lies.
NJ sounds ever more like a clueless gobshite, this weekend he's spluttering about defending set plays - FFS there was all that hoo hah about recruiting a set play coach - as if defending or attacking a cross is any damn different because we call it a corner or a freekick! 🤡.
NJ also whinged about deficiencies that predated his arrival - if that's supposed to be squad deficiencies he's talking utter shite cos he's overseen an almost total overhaul, he's only got about 4 senior players (plus Chuks!!) who've been there longer than him.
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Bilko said:msomerton said:ElfsborgAddick said:Any owners that we have who do not purchase The Valley will surely hinder our prospects on the pitch.
With the lease winding down rapidly I can see a bleak future unless someone comes in and buys everything.11 - Sponsored links:
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Algarveaddick said:I think the old bastard put a curse on us, we will never get anywhere until he falls off the perch...
Normally I'd dismiss such claims as nonsensical clap-trap, but going by Occam's Razor, it seems to be the simplest explanation of how shit we've been for years on end and how every minor uplift is followed by a huge comedown.3 -
Has it been there since the end of tbe 1956/1957 season then.1
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It’s not an accident that we keep failing and it’s not enough to point at the players, the manager or any one individual behind the scenes. I have no confidence in the current management but I think they are a product of the bigger picture, just as their recent predecessors were.Equally it’s no coincidence that Charlton succeeded in the 1990s and early 2000s just because you can’t put it down directly to the ownership or redevelopment of The Valley.The club in that era was a crusade, with everyone committed to a common goal. The directors were clearly part of that. The management was passionate and engaged. This mission, as Curbs has often related, was transmitted to the players. It had an effect although in the Premier League it became increasingly marginal to the players.My point is that we have no current narrative in which people can believe. The owners are remote and the management isn’t able to communicate sincerity of ambition or purpose. There is nothing positive for the players to take from that, even if they were collectively good enough. In short nobody believes in what is currently going on. They are all going through the motions, as are many of us, and even those doing their best on the pitch cannot overcome the situation on their own. No surprise we fail and I fear we will continue to do so, until something fundamental changes. It’s not acquiring the ground per se - although comparisons with publicly owned stadia are irrelevant - it’s what that would mean about the club.29
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Stig said:Algarveaddick said:I think the old bastard put a curse on us, we will never get anywhere until he falls off the perch...4
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Billy_Mix said:paulbaconsarnie said:PeanutsMolloy said:ElfsborgAddick said:Any owners that we have who do not purchase The Valley will surely hinder our prospects on the pitch.
With the lease winding down rapidly I can see a bleak future unless someone comes in and buys everything.
We’ve had enough experience of that but the current owners are not shysters.
Their intentions are good, the plans sensible and the money is there. Whether Jones is a sound appointment to achieve their immediate objectives is another matter.
What happens when the money men ask questions on why we are being outperformed by Mansfield, Lincoln, Exeter etc? They’ll either believe the wise sages that are making our football decisions or not. If they don’t then I see them pulling the money and walking away or appointing people into those roles who are just as effective as those who’ve had those roles over the last 10-15 years.
Everything they've put in up to now is sunk gone spent, there's categorically no pulling that back
If they reduced the budget they're prepared to use to maintain/improve the club, what can their possible outcomes be then?
Any club is dependent on the persistence of its main banker(s)
Methven made it pretty clear that the major barrier to reuniting club & real estate is the douchebag's deluded valuation. The existing lease is manageable/sensible so real estate simply isn't a priority in the project.
The operating budget provided by the current consortium hasn't been spent any more effectively than Skintgaard's or douchebag's, Southall obviously had no budget at all - quite the reverse, so we linger at the wrong end of division 3 watching truly shitty 'football'. We'll find out if the current owners are as trigger happy with managers as we've seen before or whether they'll try relative stability as a tactic rather than the hire/fire/rinse/repeat which has brought us down to this dismal level.
It is self-evident that recruitment remains woefully substandard. As supporters we can only guess where the responsibility for choosing so many duffers over so many windows actually lies.
NJ sounds ever more like a clueless gobshite, this weekend he's spluttering about defending set plays - FFS there was all that hoo hah about recruiting a set play coach - as if defending or attacking a cross is any damn different because we call it a corner or a freekick! 🤡.
NJ also whinged about deficiencies that predated his arrival - if that's supposed to be squad deficiencies he's talking utter shite cos he's overseen an almost total overhaul, he's only got about 4 senior players (plus Chuks!!) who've been there longer than him.Yes, extend the lease if you can but that will come at a premium too. It’s a massive issue and those arguing it’s not a priority need to say when it becomes one.11 -
ElfsborgAddick said:Any owners that we have who do not purchase The Valley will surely hinder our prospects on the pitch.
With the lease winding down rapidly I can see a bleak future unless someone comes in and buys everything.2 -
Dazzler21 said:Improve our team and the ground becomes more expensive...0
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Algarveaddick said:I think the old bastard put a curse on us, we will never get anywhere until he falls off the perch...2
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PeanutsMolloy said:ElfsborgAddick said:Any owners that we have who do not purchase The Valley will surely hinder our prospects on the pitch.
With the lease winding down rapidly I can see a bleak future unless someone comes in and buys everything.
We’ve had enough experience of that but the current owners are not shysters.
Their intentions are good, the plans sensible and the money is there. Whether Jones methven & friends is a sound appointment to achieve their immediate objectives is another matter.0 -
soapy_jones said:Algarveaddick said:I think the old bastard put a curse on us, we will never get anywhere until he falls off the perch...3
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J BLOCK said:ElfsborgAddick said:Any owners that we have who do not purchase The Valley will surely hinder our prospects on the pitch.
With the lease winding down rapidly I can see a bleak future unless someone comes in and buys everything.2 -
Airman Brown said:Billy_Mix said:paulbaconsarnie said:PeanutsMolloy said:ElfsborgAddick said:Any owners that we have who do not purchase The Valley will surely hinder our prospects on the pitch.
With the lease winding down rapidly I can see a bleak future unless someone comes in and buys everything.
We’ve had enough experience of that but the current owners are not shysters.
Their intentions are good, the plans sensible and the money is there. Whether Jones is a sound appointment to achieve their immediate objectives is another matter.
What happens when the money men ask questions on why we are being outperformed by Mansfield, Lincoln, Exeter etc? They’ll either believe the wise sages that are making our football decisions or not. If they don’t then I see them pulling the money and walking away or appointing people into those roles who are just as effective as those who’ve had those roles over the last 10-15 years.
Everything they've put in up to now is sunk gone spent, there's categorically no pulling that back
If they reduced the budget they're prepared to use to maintain/improve the club, what can their possible outcomes be then?
Any club is dependent on the persistence of its main banker(s)
Methven made it pretty clear that the major barrier to reuniting club & real estate is the douchebag's deluded valuation. The existing lease is manageable/sensible so real estate simply isn't a priority in the project.
The operating budget provided by the current consortium hasn't been spent any more effectively than Skintgaard's or douchebag's, Southall obviously had no budget at all - quite the reverse, so we linger at the wrong end of division 3 watching truly shitty 'football'. We'll find out if the current owners are as trigger happy with managers as we've seen before or whether they'll try relative stability as a tactic rather than the hire/fire/rinse/repeat which has brought us down to this dismal level.
It is self-evident that recruitment remains woefully substandard. As supporters we can only guess where the responsibility for choosing so many duffers over so many windows actually lies.
NJ sounds ever more like a clueless gobshite, this weekend he's spluttering about defending set plays - FFS there was all that hoo hah about recruiting a set play coach - as if defending or attacking a cross is any damn different because we call it a corner or a freekick! 🤡.
NJ also whinged about deficiencies that predated his arrival - if that's supposed to be squad deficiencies he's talking utter shite cos he's overseen an almost total overhaul, he's only got about 4 senior players (plus Chuks!!) who've been there longer than him.Yes, extend the lease if you can but that will come at a premium too. It’s a massive issue and those arguing it’s not a priority need to say when it becomes one.
If there were a prospective owner willing to offer a price that Duchatelet might conceivably accept, of course it would be ideal.
Unless you know otherwise, there is no such owner.
So it cannot be a priority.
It would be a damn sight easier to imagine one if we were near the top end of the Championship.1 -
Airman Brown said:It’s not an accident that we keep failing and it’s not enough to point at the players, the manager or any one individual behind the scenes. I have no confidence in the current management but I think they are a product of the bigger picture, just as their recent predecessors were.Equally it’s no coincidence that Charlton succeeded in the 1990s and early 2000s just because you can’t put it down directly to the ownership or redevelopment of The Valley.The club in that era was a crusade, with everyone committed to a common goal. The directors were clearly part of that. The management was passionate and engaged. This mission, as Curbs has often related, was transmitted to the players. It had an effect although in the Premier League it became increasingly marginal to the players.My point is that we have no current narrative in which people can believe. The owners are remote and the management isn’t able to communicate sincerity of ambition or purpose. There is nothing positive for the players to take from that, even if they were collectively good enough. In short nobody believes in what is currently going on. They are all going through the motions, as are many of us, and even those doing their best on the pitch cannot overcome the situation on their own. No surprise we fail and I fear we will continue to do so, until something fundamental changes. It’s not acquiring the ground per se - although comparisons with publicly owned stadia are irrelevant - it’s what that would mean about the club.
This current ownership group talk a good game, (3+3+3) as did their predecessors(European football in 3 seasons!) but there is absolutely never any substance to back it up.
When your sole intention is to flip the club when it finds itself in a better place (and I believe that has been the intention of ALL of the owners we've had in recent times, including now)then
I suppose this kind of general attitude is borne.
Bluster and bullshit I think they call it.5 -
PeanutsMolloy said:Airman Brown said:Billy_Mix said:paulbaconsarnie said:PeanutsMolloy said:ElfsborgAddick said:Any owners that we have who do not purchase The Valley will surely hinder our prospects on the pitch.
With the lease winding down rapidly I can see a bleak future unless someone comes in and buys everything.
We’ve had enough experience of that but the current owners are not shysters.
Their intentions are good, the plans sensible and the money is there. Whether Jones is a sound appointment to achieve their immediate objectives is another matter.
What happens when the money men ask questions on why we are being outperformed by Mansfield, Lincoln, Exeter etc? They’ll either believe the wise sages that are making our football decisions or not. If they don’t then I see them pulling the money and walking away or appointing people into those roles who are just as effective as those who’ve had those roles over the last 10-15 years.
Everything they've put in up to now is sunk gone spent, there's categorically no pulling that back
If they reduced the budget they're prepared to use to maintain/improve the club, what can their possible outcomes be then?
Any club is dependent on the persistence of its main banker(s)
Methven made it pretty clear that the major barrier to reuniting club & real estate is the douchebag's deluded valuation. The existing lease is manageable/sensible so real estate simply isn't a priority in the project.
The operating budget provided by the current consortium hasn't been spent any more effectively than Skintgaard's or douchebag's, Southall obviously had no budget at all - quite the reverse, so we linger at the wrong end of division 3 watching truly shitty 'football'. We'll find out if the current owners are as trigger happy with managers as we've seen before or whether they'll try relative stability as a tactic rather than the hire/fire/rinse/repeat which has brought us down to this dismal level.
It is self-evident that recruitment remains woefully substandard. As supporters we can only guess where the responsibility for choosing so many duffers over so many windows actually lies.
NJ sounds ever more like a clueless gobshite, this weekend he's spluttering about defending set plays - FFS there was all that hoo hah about recruiting a set play coach - as if defending or attacking a cross is any damn different because we call it a corner or a freekick! 🤡.
NJ also whinged about deficiencies that predated his arrival - if that's supposed to be squad deficiencies he's talking utter shite cos he's overseen an almost total overhaul, he's only got about 4 senior players (plus Chuks!!) who've been there longer than him.Yes, extend the lease if you can but that will come at a premium too. It’s a massive issue and those arguing it’s not a priority need to say when it becomes one.
If there were a prospective owner willing to offer a price that Duchatelet might conceivably accept, of course it would be ideal.
Unless you know otherwise, there is no such owner.
So it cannot be a priority.
It would be a damn sight easier to imagine one if we were near the top end of the Championship.7 -
Radostanradical said:Bilko said:msomerton said:ElfsborgAddick said:Any owners that we have who do not purchase The Valley will surely hinder our prospects on the pitch.
With the lease winding down rapidly I can see a bleak future unless someone comes in and buys everything.1 -
Airman Brown said:PeanutsMolloy said:Airman Brown said:Billy_Mix said:paulbaconsarnie said:PeanutsMolloy said:ElfsborgAddick said:Any owners that we have who do not purchase The Valley will surely hinder our prospects on the pitch.
With the lease winding down rapidly I can see a bleak future unless someone comes in and buys everything.
We’ve had enough experience of that but the current owners are not shysters.
Their intentions are good, the plans sensible and the money is there. Whether Jones is a sound appointment to achieve their immediate objectives is another matter.
What happens when the money men ask questions on why we are being outperformed by Mansfield, Lincoln, Exeter etc? They’ll either believe the wise sages that are making our football decisions or not. If they don’t then I see them pulling the money and walking away or appointing people into those roles who are just as effective as those who’ve had those roles over the last 10-15 years.
Everything they've put in up to now is sunk gone spent, there's categorically no pulling that back
If they reduced the budget they're prepared to use to maintain/improve the club, what can their possible outcomes be then?
Any club is dependent on the persistence of its main banker(s)
Methven made it pretty clear that the major barrier to reuniting club & real estate is the douchebag's deluded valuation. The existing lease is manageable/sensible so real estate simply isn't a priority in the project.
The operating budget provided by the current consortium hasn't been spent any more effectively than Skintgaard's or douchebag's, Southall obviously had no budget at all - quite the reverse, so we linger at the wrong end of division 3 watching truly shitty 'football'. We'll find out if the current owners are as trigger happy with managers as we've seen before or whether they'll try relative stability as a tactic rather than the hire/fire/rinse/repeat which has brought us down to this dismal level.
It is self-evident that recruitment remains woefully substandard. As supporters we can only guess where the responsibility for choosing so many duffers over so many windows actually lies.
NJ sounds ever more like a clueless gobshite, this weekend he's spluttering about defending set plays - FFS there was all that hoo hah about recruiting a set play coach - as if defending or attacking a cross is any damn different because we call it a corner or a freekick! 🤡.
NJ also whinged about deficiencies that predated his arrival - if that's supposed to be squad deficiencies he's talking utter shite cos he's overseen an almost total overhaul, he's only got about 4 senior players (plus Chuks!!) who've been there longer than him.Yes, extend the lease if you can but that will come at a premium too. It’s a massive issue and those arguing it’s not a priority need to say when it becomes one.
If there were a prospective owner willing to offer a price that Duchatelet might conceivably accept, of course it would be ideal.
Unless you know otherwise, there is no such owner.
So it cannot be a priority.
It would be a damn sight easier to imagine one if we were near the top end of the Championship.
In the absence of seriously wealthy fans our only hope is football ignorant owners.
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The constant turnover of players/ management makes it very hard for the club to move forward on the pitch. You always need a few that ‘get it’ and that feel invested in the club. Dobson / Jackson / Bowyer all fell into this catagory in recent times, but we simply don’t hang onto these people. The ‘churn’ of players and managers mean that we end up with players ‘going through the motions’. When you get a gem like Dobson, you need to build a team around him, not offer him a sub standard contract. Otherwise we’ll never get out of this dreadful division
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It's rather embarrassing to see what the team at the top of the table and 16 points above us have spent on recruitment when compared to us. In all competitions they have won 9 on the bounce and lost just one game in their last 18 which was a 2-1 defeat to Aston Villa in the League Cup. This is their XI with the most League 1 games this season (appearances in brackets):
Franco Ravizolli (13) - free from MK Dons
Jack Grimmer (14) - free from Coventry
Joe Low (15) - undisclosed from Bristol City
Caleb Taylor (11) - on loan from WBA
Daniel Harvie (15) - undisclosed from MK Dons
Garath McLeary (13) - free from Reading
Aaron Morley (12) - on loan from Bolton
Josh Scowan (13) - free from Sunderland
Cameron Humphreys (12) - on loan from Ipswich
Daniel Udoh (14) - undisclosed from Shrewsbury
Richard Kone (15) - free following successful trial after playing for an Essex League club
All of the above have started at least 10 of their 15 matches and no other player has commenced more than 6 games for them this season. Three undisclosed payments which probably amount in total to less than we paid for Ahadme and the rest of them either frees or loans. Virtually half of that XI joined this season too.
It wouldn't matter if we owned the ground or not because we could have signed any number of those if we really wanted to.
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Addick Addict said:It's rather embarrassing to see what the team at the top of the table and 16 points above us have spent on recruitment when compared to us. In all competitions they have won 9 on the bounce and lost just one game in their last 18 which was a 2-1 defeat to Aston Villa in the League Cup. This is their XI with the most League 1 games this season (appearances in brackets):
Franco Ravizolli (13) - free from MK Dons
Jack Grimmer (14) - free from Coventry
Joe Low (15) - undisclosed from Bristol City
Caleb Taylor (11) - on loan from WBA
Daniel Harvie (15) - undisclosed from MK Dons
Garath McLeary (13) - free from Reading
Aaron Morley (12) - on loan from Bolton
Josh Scowan (13) - free from Sunderland
Cameron Humphreys (12) - on loan from Ipswich
Daniel Udoh (14) - undisclosed from Shrewsbury
Richard Kone (15) - free following successful trial after playing for an Essex League club
All of the above have started at least 10 of their 15 matches and no other player has commenced more than 6 games for them this season. Three undisclosed payments which probably amount in total to less than we paid for Ahadme and the rest of them either frees or loans. Virtually half of that XI joined this season too.
It wouldn't matter if we owned the ground or not because we could have signed any number of those if we really wanted to.
We are struggling and i'm not saying we'd be doing as well as them but i'm confident that if we'd had the likes of Leaburn, Jones, Ramsay, Edwards and Chuks fit all season we'd be doing much better than we are.6 -
If we signed all them players under the coaching of NJ we’d be midtable dross and half of them would have broken down with injuries7