Higher division, higher costs for club means higher prices. That’s a fact for all clubs that get promoted. GET REAL for those that expect something for nothing. Amen!!
And the prize for not having read or understood the thread goes to.. our friend here.
Have the club got to worry about the amount of season tickets it sells? There'll be quite a few games where the away end will sell out. That puts a few more thousand on the gate. I can see an average gate of roundabout 20000. So are the club saying we're not really bothered if we don't sell many more season tickets?
For all those completely relaxed by the increase I assume will make no comment when their replica shirt /beer/ burger / Charlton TV next season also costs more.
Oh and no comments about our lack of transfer marquee signings
I’d assumed if anything a deluge of emails this week imploring me to buy a ST / be part of the journey etc. But no.
No one is forcing anyone to buy replica shirts, beer in the ground or food in the ground and if Charlton TV goes up by £5 I still think that's good value.
I think you're just sour because you couldn't get a Wembley ticket. Let's also consider that of the few people on CL voicing they are unhappy about S/T prices, many had no intention of buying a S/T in any case.
We're a big club was the cry, we can compete in The Premier League, where some clubs have massive waiting lists for S/Ts that are far more expensive than ours.
Well, let's see how big we are and if we can even compete in The Championship. ONE of the reasons we've struggled to maintain modest success over the years, is because when push comes to shove we don't have enough fans willing to back the club financially. Twas ever thus.
I did get a ticket for your reference. Your assertion is wrong.
My point (even if you choose to categorise as sour) is the lost opportunity.
Our recent history boasted of affordable football.
That supports his point really. Ie a lot Charlton fans / floating fans want top end Championship football, but at mid-table League One prices. Ideally, PL football at good prices & a coach service thrown in.
All this talk of ‘massive potential’ or Wembley shows what a ‘massive’ club Charlton is, is quite ironic, given the fact we mockingly call Sheffield Wednesday ‘the massive’, when they actually do get 24-30,000 gates despite high prices & being crap.
As aside, my point earlier in this thread was that I don’t think hard-nosed American businessmen give a shit about being benevolent owners. They will just see it as charging the going rate. Right or wrong. And clearly fans are divided into both camps.
If increasing season ticket/ticketing prices was a significant enough revenue to mean we can spend a lot more on the team then that would be a fair argument. Realistically it isn’t though, the bulk of income is TV deal money. And that’s before the argument that a slightly lower price point would encourage more people to buy (as we’ve just seen there’s demand to be capitalised on) and that could actually increase revenue
For all those completely relaxed by the increase I assume will make no comment when their replica shirt /beer/ burger / Charlton TV next season also costs more.
Oh and no comments about our lack of transfer marquee signings
I’d assumed if anything a deluge of emails this week imploring me to buy a ST / be part of the journey etc. But no.
No one is forcing anyone to buy replica shirts, beer in the ground or food in the ground and if Charlton TV goes up by £5 I still think that's good value.
I think you're just sour because you couldn't get a Wembley ticket. Let's also consider that of the few people on CL voicing they are unhappy about S/T prices, many had no intention of buying a S/T in any case.
We're a big club was the cry, we can compete in The Premier League, where some clubs have massive waiting lists for S/Ts that are far more expensive than ours.
Well, let's see how big we are and if we can even compete in The Championship. ONE of the reasons we've struggled to maintain modest success over the years, is because when push comes to shove we don't have enough fans willing to back the club financially. Twas ever thus.
I did get a ticket for your reference. Your assertion is wrong.
My point (even if you choose to categorise as sour) is the lost opportunity.
Our recent history boasted of affordable football.
That supports his point really. Ie a lot Charlton fans / floating fans want top end Championship football, but at mid-table League One prices. Ideally, PL football at good prices & a coach service thrown in.
All this talk of ‘massive potential’ or Wembley shows what a ‘massive’ club Charlton is, is quite ironic, given the fact we mockingly call Sheffield Wednesday ‘the massive’, when they actually do get 24-30,000 gates despite high prices & being crap.
As aside, my point earlier in this thread was that I don’t think hard-nosed American businessmen give a shit about being benevolent owners. They will just see it as charging the going rate. Right or wrong. And clearly fans are divided into both camps.
If increasing season ticket/ticketing prices was a significant enough revenue to mean we can spend a lot more on the team then that would be a fair argument. Realistically it isn’t though, the bulk of income is TV deal money. And that’s before the argument that a slightly lower price point would encourage more people to buy (as we’ve just seen there’s demand to be capitalised on) and that could actually increase revenue
I was talking about the fans perspective. Rather than the economics of it. I think a lot of the floating support want good football, at low prices. Why wouldn’t they? That just means we have to rely mostly on the loyal hardcore.
Higher division, higher costs for club means higher prices. That’s a fact for all clubs that get promoted. GET REAL for those that expect something for nothing. Amen!!
And the prize for not having read or understood the thread goes to.. our friend here.
And in case RoytheBoy is thinking "What have I misunderstood?"
The complaint is about how the Club has messed up the opportunity to get more season tickets sold off the back of the last weeks euphoria by being too quick to raise the prices on Monday. If they had waited another two weeks they will probably have shifted a shed load more season tickets because people will have been on a high. An example is my mate who misses about 1/3 of the games but was texting me directly after the 2nd home play off versus Wycombe telling me had coughed up for a season ticket at £485. He didnt think it through, just got caught up in the excitement. You probably could have multiplied that effect on Monday 26th but instead we get a big (and not very well pre-announced) increase.
Most people on here will have renewed at £460 or £485 so it doesnt directly affect them yet (but wait for next season!).
Have the club got to worry about the amount of season tickets it sells? There'll be quite a few games where the away end will sell out. That puts a few more thousand on the gate. I can see an average gate of roundabout 20000. So are the club saying we're not really bothered if we don't sell many more season tickets?
I agree. If we averaged 14,200 home fans with at a guess 1,000 away fans in L1 =15,200. In The Championship if we get 17,500 home fans & 2,500 away = 20,000. I think it's more than reasonable to expect an extra 3,300 home fans.
Thought about this one, now I'm a renewed immediately person so will hit next year.
Basically all the arguments about more money for better quality etc. stack up. What will be telling is how Jones speaks about the recruitment he is allowed to do. If he clearly isnt pleased and we get obliterated every week, then the price rise will be for nothing for the owners.
People will just stop coming, we will slip back to league 1 with 1200 turning up when they can be arsed and a bigger wage bill to foot.
Just noticed that the 16-20 year old only blocks have been moved to those areas nearest the away fans, who thought that a good idea.
They haven’t, it’s just awful map design. The blocks at the end of the West/Crubs stand are blacked out as they’re unavailable for ST’s. You’re about the fifth person to make that mistake (not a dig), the club really need to make it clearer
Just noticed that the 16-20 year old only blocks have been moved to those areas nearest the away fans, who thought that a good idea.
They haven’t, it’s just awful map design. The blocks at the end of the West/Crubs stand are blacked out as they’re unavailable for ST’s. You’re about the fifth person to make that mistake (not a dig), the club really need to make it clearer
the club need some one to improve their presentation on line. It will also con some of the 16-20 year old`s as well.
Have the club got to worry about the amount of season tickets it sells? There'll be quite a few games where the away end will sell out. That puts a few more thousand on the gate. I can see an average gate of roundabout 20000. So are the club saying we're not really bothered if we don't sell many more season tickets?
I agree. If we averaged 14,200 home fans with at a guess 1,000 away fans in L1 =15,200. In The Championship if we get 17,500 home fans & 2,500 away = 20,000. I think it's more than reasonable to expect an extra 3,300 home fans.
We used to reckon 600 average away sales in L1 and 1,600 in the Championship. That’s very rule of thumb and you can probably disprove it with a bit of research, plus times change, but 2,500 is a bit ambitious IMO.
Have the club got to worry about the amount of season tickets it sells? There'll be quite a few games where the away end will sell out. That puts a few more thousand on the gate. I can see an average gate of roundabout 20000. So are the club saying we're not really bothered if we don't sell many more season tickets?
Daft if they are. Match sales are worth more but guaranteed income regardless of KO time and form is better.
Higher division, higher costs for club means higher prices. That’s a fact for all clubs that get promoted. GET REAL for those that expect something for nothing. Amen!!
The vast majority of the financial boost from promotion comes from central income - PL solidarity and EFL TV deals. 5,000 extra spectators at, say £20 net of VAT at 23 games would still equal only £2.3m.
3,000 ST holders paying an extra £50 net on average = £150k. Barely noticeable in the big picture:
Have the club got to worry about the amount of season tickets it sells? There'll be quite a few games where the away end will sell out. That puts a few more thousand on the gate. I can see an average gate of roundabout 20000. So are the club saying we're not really bothered if we don't sell many more season tickets?
I agree. If we averaged 14,200 home fans with at a guess 1,000 away fans in L1 =15,200. In The Championship if we get 17,500 home fans & 2,500 away = 20,000. I think it's more than reasonable to expect an extra 3,300 home fans.
We used to reckon 600 average away sales in L1 and 1,600 in the Championship. That’s very rule of thumb and you can probably disprove it with a bit of research, plus times change, but 2,500 is a bit ambitious IMO.
Ok so if we had 14,600 home fans (we all know about comps) and we’ll get 1,600 away fans. We need another 3,800 fans to average 20,000.
Have the club got to worry about the amount of season tickets it sells? There'll be quite a few games where the away end will sell out. That puts a few more thousand on the gate. I can see an average gate of roundabout 20000. So are the club saying we're not really bothered if we don't sell many more season tickets?
I agree. If we averaged 14,200 home fans with at a guess 1,000 away fans in L1 =15,200. In The Championship if we get 17,500 home fans & 2,500 away = 20,000. I think it's more than reasonable to expect an extra 3,300 home fans.
We used to reckon 600 average away sales in L1 and 1,600 in the Championship. That’s very rule of thumb and you can probably disprove it with a bit of research, plus times change, but 2,500 is a bit ambitious IMO.
Ok so if we had 14,600 home fans (we all know about comps) and we’ll get 1,600 away fans. We need another 3,800 fans to average 20,000.
Personally, I think that’s doable.
I find it hard to debate attendances since the official figures are so obviously nonsense. I agree what you say is possible but we don’t start from 14,600.
Apologies for the rambles about money, but the point I am trying to make, is that it isn't just as simple as a price increase, there are outside factors and variables.
My rent went up from £825 to £925 within 2 years.
My car insurance went up from £75 a month to £91
My electric rose by approx £10 p/m.
Every bill in the real world rose. When you factor that in with a football price hike, it becomes unmanageable to a lot of people.
I was also choosing to deliberately slash working hours to ensure attending games. I.e. I was taking less overtime to attend games, and I was using overtime for holiday days instead of actual cash to ensure I could book certain days off work to attend games, as not everyone has weekends free or can make Tuesday evening kick offs.
Which will be another variable next season, the amount of games moving will make the season ticket way less desirable to some people.
Personally I think the prices should have been frozen for at least a year, and if we managed to stay up and were bringing in a certain level of footballer, then they could justify a price increase.
I will reluctantly pay, but I'm not happy about it, and it is looking very likely to be another season of missing out on overtime, using up time in lieu and parting with approximately 10-15% of my yearly salary to cover travel costs, match tickets and potentially hotels. That isn't right.
Wouldn’t the club also be facing very similar prices rises with utilities, staff wages, travel costs? Football has become ridiculously expensive in England, but it’s not a Charlton issue and I’m not sure what the alternative is as long as player wages stay at the insane level they’re at.
If we do well, The Valley will be 20,000 or above. First game will be busy as alot of Wembley crowd likely to come, especially if one of the more established clubs in the Championship are the opposition.
If we have a dip in form, will be interesting to see what happens to the numbers.
Apologies for the rambles about money, but the point I am trying to make, is that it isn't just as simple as a price increase, there are outside factors and variables.
My rent went up from £825 to £925 within 2 years.
My car insurance went up from £75 a month to £91
My electric rose by approx £10 p/m.
Every bill in the real world rose. When you factor that in with a football price hike, it becomes unmanageable to a lot of people.
I was also choosing to deliberately slash working hours to ensure attending games. I.e. I was taking less overtime to attend games, and I was using overtime for holiday days instead of actual cash to ensure I could book certain days off work to attend games, as not everyone has weekends free or can make Tuesday evening kick offs.
Which will be another variable next season, the amount of games moving will make the season ticket way less desirable to some people.
Personally I think the prices should have been frozen for at least a year, and if we managed to stay up and were bringing in a certain level of footballer, then they could justify a price increase.
I will reluctantly pay, but I'm not happy about it, and it is looking very likely to be another season of missing out on overtime, using up time in lieu and parting with approximately 10-15% of my yearly salary to cover travel costs, match tickets and potentially hotels. That isn't right.
Wouldn’t the club also be facing very similar prices rises with utilities, staff wages, travel costs? Football has become ridiculously expensive in England, but it’s not a Charlton issue and I’m not sure what the alternative is as long as player wages stay at the insane level they’re at.
True, but without sounding arrogant, I don't need Charlton, but they need me.
And that applies to wider football and every fan of every club. If fans decided to stop watching, it would all crumble. Luckily for football clubs, a lot of fans are addicted, or it's their life, or they'll get fomo etc.
But when you break it down simply, football is just entertainment, if it ever gets too much, people can just find that entertainment elsewhere. That has already been happening to a lot fans at bigger clubs than us.
In all honesty though Charlton isn't near that point, I just think it's a pisstake that they've increased prices so much without any real warning.
Higher division, higher costs for club means higher prices. That’s a fact for all clubs that get promoted. GET REAL for those that expect something for nothing. Amen!!
The vast majority of the financial boost from promotion comes from central income - PL solidarity and EFL TV deals. 5,000 extra spectators at, say £20 net of VAT at 23 games would still equal only £2.3m.
3,000 ST holders paying an extra £50 net on average = £150k. Barely noticeable in the big picture:
We’re talking about £50 or so - that a round at the green man once a year or £1 a week - if that’s the going rate and you wasn’t prepared to pay up front in case we were in league 1 then I’m sorry but you aren’t as committed as those who got it a bit cheaper by committing if we hadn’t gone up - let’s call it the price of success or the penalty for a shortfall in loyalty
I don't understand all these weird snipey digs at other fans.
A season ticket rewards commitment up front so does buying a season ticket before you know what division you are in - as did buying a 10 year ticket without knowing if the club was going to go bust in 92 - I’d be concerned if loyal fans could no longer afford their seat but not newbies who couldn’t commit a few weeks ago - not that I don’t want them on board but we have to charge the going rate rather than offer up something on the cheap
Still digging at fans, can't help yourself.
Nope - I’ve given my opinion and if you think I’m digging at fans that’s your problem - I’m praising the loyal fans and saying they are the ones the club should look after rather than pandering to the waverers coz we know most will disappear again when it turns to shit
Not even been a week since the final. At least have some positivity 😂
Looking back at our last periods in the Championship, I would expect average gates over the season of 16,000 to 17,000. The new pricing will not do much to encourage more.
Comments
There'll be quite a few games where the away end will sell out.
That puts a few more thousand on the gate.
I can see an average gate of roundabout 20000.
So are the club saying we're not really bothered if we don't sell many more season tickets?
The complaint is about how the Club has messed up the opportunity to get more season tickets sold off the back of the last weeks euphoria by being too quick to raise the prices on Monday. If they had waited another two weeks they will probably have shifted a shed load more season tickets because people will have been on a high. An example is my mate who misses about 1/3 of the games but was texting me directly after the 2nd home play off versus Wycombe telling me had coughed up for a season ticket at £485. He didnt think it through, just got caught up in the excitement. You probably could have multiplied that effect on Monday 26th but instead we get a big (and not very well pre-announced) increase.
Most people on here will have renewed at £460 or £485 so it doesnt directly affect them yet (but wait for next season!).
If we averaged 14,200 home fans with at a guess 1,000 away fans in L1 =15,200.
In The Championship if we get 17,500 home fans & 2,500 away = 20,000.
I think it's more than reasonable to expect an extra 3,300 home fans.
Basically all the arguments about more money for better quality etc. stack up. What will be telling is how Jones speaks about the recruitment he is allowed to do. If he clearly isnt pleased and we get obliterated every week, then the price rise will be for nothing for the owners.
People will just stop coming, we will slip back to league 1 with 1200 turning up when they can be arsed and a bigger wage bill to foot.
We need another 3,800 fans to average 20,000.
Personally, I think that’s doable.
TIA
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And that applies to wider football and every fan of every club. If fans decided to stop watching, it would all crumble. Luckily for football clubs, a lot of fans are addicted, or it's their life, or they'll get fomo etc.
But when you break it down simply, football is just entertainment, if it ever gets too much, people can just find that entertainment elsewhere. That has already been happening to a lot fans at bigger clubs than us.
In all honesty though Charlton isn't near that point, I just think it's a pisstake that they've increased prices so much without any real warning.