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Charlton publish 23/24 Accounts
Comments
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ateamofcorygibbs said:Methven paying himself and his mates massive salaries while running the club into the ground? Who could have predicted this!13
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Braziliance said:AFKABartram said:On the missing records, this is the auditors comment…
I've never known a company to be folded by a single cyber attack. Do big companies not also keep things in writing, have back up files/fail-safes. I understand systems going down for a period of time, happens to massive companies, but to lose records completely?
Without getting the tin hat out, it almost sounds deliberate.5 -
Scoham said:ateamofcorygibbs said:Methven paying himself and his mates massive salaries while running the club into the ground? Who could have predicted this!
Those costs are covered by the owners. We're not borrowing money to cover debt. I'ts coming from the owners pockets?2 -
These are the accounts for a season in which we finished in our lowest league position in 80 years (I believe) and had three managers! Revenue was bound to be down and losses increased. Those losses are covered by the ownership and there is nothing to indicate any drop in commitment to continue to cover future losses. The owners will of course want to see progression on the pitch and we can surely all agree that we have seen that this season (after a dodgy start). If we get promoted this year then I would think that will be ahead of the expectations of the owners' long term plan. 2024/25 will still be showing an operating loss, as will 2025/26 especially if we get promoted.One of the big criticisms of Tommy Boy was the lack of a functioning executive team, he ran it along with Raylene and his boy! The new owners put in an executive team, the selection of that team is up for debate but it was put in place and moves have been made to mitigate that selection. So no executive team under TS and one put in place by the new owners in their first season of ownership - no shit Sherlock that executive pay increased! CM, JR, AS et al didn't set their own pay and the right people command commensurate remuneration. Hopefully the right people will be out in place but I would not expect the new CEO to be earning less than CM.27
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Chris_from_Sidcup said:Chris_from_Sidcup said:The 71.5m of losses are over how long a time period?
I'm assuming it's historical going back to the Roland years?0 -
TheHerminator said:Scoham said:ateamofcorygibbs said:Methven paying himself and his mates massive salaries while running the club into the ground? Who could have predicted this!
Those costs are covered by the owners. We're not borrowing money to cover debt. I'ts coming from the owners pockets?I hope we go up as much as anyone, but I’m not sure where it leaves us if we don’t. If gambling on getting promoted this season was the goal at the start of the season then that looked very risky in August and even now with us in a very good position the play-offs are still a lottery.I’m not sure how happy the owners will be to absorb those losses indefinitely - and in fact they’re clearly not, as they’ve already got rid of him!3 -
ateamofcorygibbs said:Methven paying himself and his mates massive salaries while running the club into the ground? Who could have predicted this!7
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Staggering to me that people are still willing to defend Methven when he’s repeatedly shown his true colours. His one trick is to persuade a club to pay him and his mates a massive salary for as long as he can get away with it and then waltz off. He barely even tries to hide it!8
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1. Turnover down - it was our worst ever season so no surprise really.
2. £1.9M on the SMT seems a very large amount, but there were a lot of them; Methven, Warwick, Lenegan, Rodwell, Scott, Elliot and other non execs. The owners surely would have signed off our budget for this so whilst Methven maybe got away with an inflated salary the owners clearly thought it was value at the time they employed him.
3. Ransomware - it is one of the biggest "businesses" turnover wise, globally (sad but true). Loads of companies are affected by it, smaller companies (and with sub £10m turnover that is what we are); are less likely to have systems in place as a backup.
4. If the owners were really fooled by Methvens chat about reducing losses to £2m then "fools and their money are easily parted" readily springs to mind. I don't think they are fools.0 -
Weegie Addick said:This was shared at the online directors’ Q&A in January showing the current financial year with a similar outturn to 22/23. The accounts just released are for the year inbetween.
Now we know why.16 - Sponsored links:
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Rothko said:The owners saw the numbers and took action, seems the owners aren’t negligent
I am not against the owners, but to play devil's advocate a bit:
- they would have signed off the £1.9M on the SMT.
- if they "saw the numbers" from the draft financial accounts and "took action" I would suggest they are negligent as they should have noticed the £250K per week they were pumping in since acquiring us and noticed the worst league position in 80 years last season and acted sooner...6 -
A very damming audit report
A company this size should have made backs ups/ have a disaster recovery plan
Obviously these figures are now 9 months out of date. Are managemenent accounts produced on a monthly basis (normal ptractice and I should hope so)? If they are, then why did it take so long so for the owners to take action?
If I was the Finance Director I would definately be looking for another job.2 -
bobmunro said:These are the accounts for a season in which we finished in our lowest league position in 80 years (I believe) and had three managers! Revenue was bound to be down and losses increased. Those losses are covered by the ownership and there is nothing to indicate any drop in commitment to continue to cover future losses. The owners will of course want to see progression on the pitch and we can surely all agree that we have seen that this season (after a dodgy start). If we get promoted this year then I would think that will be ahead of the expectations of the owners' long term plan. 2024/25 will still be showing an operating loss, as will 2025/26 especially if we get promoted.One of the big criticisms of Tommy Boy was the lack of a functioning executive team, he ran it along with Raylene and his boy! The new owners put in an executive team, the selection of that team is up for debate but it was put in place and moves have been made to mitigate that selection. So no executive team under TS and one in put in place by the new owners in their first season of ownership - no shit Sherlock that executive pay increased! CM, JR, AS et al didn't set their own pay and the right people command commensurate remuneration. Hopefully the right people will be out in place but I would not expect the new CEO to be earning less CM.I’d hope any new appointment has a more performance related remuneration structure.3
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ateamofcorygibbs said:TheHerminator said:Scoham said:ateamofcorygibbs said:Methven paying himself and his mates massive salaries while running the club into the ground? Who could have predicted this!
Those costs are covered by the owners. We're not borrowing money to cover debt. I'ts coming from the owners pockets?I hope we go up as much as anyone, but I’m not sure where it leaves us if we don’t. If gambling on getting promoted this season was the goal at the start of the season then that looked very risky in August and even now with us in a very good position the play-offs are still a lottery.I’m not sure how happy the owners will be to absorb those losses indefinitely - and in fact they’re clearly not, as they’ve already got rid of him!3 -
Athletico Charlton said:Rothko said:The owners saw the numbers and took action, seems the owners aren’t negligent
I am not against the owners, but to play devil's advocate a bit:
- they would have signed off the £1.9M on the SMT.
- if they "saw the numbers" from the draft financial accounts and "took action" I would suggest they are negligent as they should have noticed the £250K per week they were pumping in since acquiring us and noticed the worst league position in 80 years last season and acted sooner...
Mad, maybe. But negligent?1 -
Rothko said:The owners saw the numbers and took action, seems the owners aren’t negligent27
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Airman Brown said:Rothko said:The owners saw the numbers and took action, seems the owners aren’t negligent1
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Off_it said:Athletico Charlton said:Rothko said:The owners saw the numbers and took action, seems the owners aren’t negligent
I am not against the owners, but to play devil's advocate a bit:
- they would have signed off the £1.9M on the SMT.
- if they "saw the numbers" from the draft financial accounts and "took action" I would suggest they are negligent as they should have noticed the £250K per week they were pumping in since acquiring us and noticed the worst league position in 80 years last season and acted sooner...
Mad, maybe. But negligent?
My point was that if the owners saw this set of accounts and were surprised by them enough to take action it would have been negligent.
Our owners are grown up business people, I don't expect these numbers to have come as a surprise to them, especially when they have been underwriting our losses throughout.
I would guess that Methven is more likely to have gone because this year's numbers 24/25 are not showing sufficient signs of improving.1 -
TelMc32 said:bobmunro said:These are the accounts for a season in which we finished in our lowest league position in 80 years (I believe) and had three managers! Revenue was bound to be down and losses increased. Those losses are covered by the ownership and there is nothing to indicate any drop in commitment to continue to cover future losses. The owners will of course want to see progression on the pitch and we can surely all agree that we have seen that this season (after a dodgy start). If we get promoted this year then I would think that will be ahead of the expectations of the owners' long term plan. 2024/25 will still be showing an operating loss, as will 2025/26 especially if we get promoted.One of the big criticisms of Tommy Boy was the lack of a functioning executive team, he ran it along with Raylene and his boy! The new owners put in an executive team, the selection of that team is up for debate but it was put in place and moves have been made to mitigate that selection. So no executive team under TS and one in put in place by the new owners in their first season of ownership - no shit Sherlock that executive pay increased! CM, JR, AS et al didn't set their own pay and the right people command commensurate remuneration. Hopefully the right people will be out in place but I would not expect the new CEO to be earning less CM.I’d hope any new appointment has a more performance related remuneration structure.Nevertheless it’s reasonable to assume that Methven was handsomely rewarded - the £300k figure has been mentioned by people in the game - and there are questions about who pays GFP “sporting director”Simon Lenagan, as well as what he does. It was always bleedin’ obvious the senior management was top heavy and the excessive cost won’t be confined to executive pay.12
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Is Dr Will Abbott included in the executive pay?
He's the only one I can think of apart from Nathan that has earned their corn.2 - Sponsored links:
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23/24 was always going to look horrible in the accounts. A poor season in the league, with 2 managerial sackings. Plus the previous season 22/23 had the income from the EFL Cup run (with the game at Old Trafford).
The senior exec team in place until recently did seem rather excessive in number for a 3rd division side, reflected in the wages.1 -
Henry Irving said:Weegie Addick said:This was shared at the online directors’ Q&A in January showing the current financial year with a similar outturn to 22/23. The accounts just released are for the year inbetween.
Now we know why.A board that cannot, without an exceptional excuse, produce reliable financial forecasts part way through that current year is about the biggest failure of financial oversight the board can demonstrate to shareholders. That’s why management of a competently run business will never, never base profit forecasts on unreliable sources of revenue. It’s the guaranteed chop for those responsible if “hoped for” revenue does not materialise.
There are only 4 sources of revenue so should not require a genius to work out.8 -
ateamofcorygibbs said:TheHerminator said:Scoham said:ateamofcorygibbs said:Methven paying himself and his mates massive salaries while running the club into the ground? Who could have predicted this!
Those costs are covered by the owners. We're not borrowing money to cover debt. I'ts coming from the owners pockets?I hope we go up as much as anyone, but I’m not sure where it leaves us if we don’t. If gambling on getting promoted this season was the goal at the start of the season then that looked very risky in August and even now with us in a very good position the play-offs are still a lottery.I’m not sure how happy the owners will be to absorb those losses indefinitely - and in fact they’re clearly not, as they’ve already got rid of him!
Who knows what the future holds. but people suggesting this is damning and unexpected honestly probably don't understand how businesses are run.
I agree with your point on the owners indefinite money pit being unlikely. But they will have known year 1 and 2 will be expensive.
They will have planned for non promotion this year and expected it next.1 -
ateamofcorygibbs said:Methven paying himself and his mates massive salaries while running the club into the ground? Who could have predicted this!
I'm not defending him as these are pretty terrible financial figures, but he hasn't sat there and thought 'yeah i'll pay myself £1m no one will notice'.0 -
guinnessaddick said:AFKABartram said:Am I reading this correctly, it’s saying that due to the publicised cyber attack, a load of financial records were completely wiped and couldn’t be retrieved?0
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TheHerminator said:ateamofcorygibbs said:TheHerminator said:Scoham said:ateamofcorygibbs said:Methven paying himself and his mates massive salaries while running the club into the ground? Who could have predicted this!
Those costs are covered by the owners. We're not borrowing money to cover debt. I'ts coming from the owners pockets?I hope we go up as much as anyone, but I’m not sure where it leaves us if we don’t. If gambling on getting promoted this season was the goal at the start of the season then that looked very risky in August and even now with us in a very good position the play-offs are still a lottery.I’m not sure how happy the owners will be to absorb those losses indefinitely - and in fact they’re clearly not, as they’ve already got rid of him!
Who knows what the future holds. but people suggesting this is damning and unexpected honestly probably don't understand how businesses are run.
I agree with your point on the owners indefinite money pit being unlikely. But they will have known year 1 and 2 will be expensive.
They will have planned for non promotion this year and expected it next.
For instance. Your highly paid executive committee tell you what a great managerial acquisition Dean Holden will be. Months later he is shown the door for being well out of his depth. The whole process starts again and the top execs come back with Michael Appleton. We all know how that ended up.
And these are just the decisions that are common knowledge. One can only imagine some of the unseen brain storming.
Luckily for us, someone took the reigns off of the executive ' dream team' and we are seeing some shoots of recovery.
But surely the money men are looking at parts of their wage bill and seeing that they really had their pants pulled down?3 -
The bigger issue for me is that even if there were no executive salary payments and no severance pay offs, our losses would've still been 12m, which is a big increase on the 9.5m from the year before.
How have we found a way to lose an extra 2.5m?0 -
Chris_from_Sidcup said:ateamofcorygibbs said:Methven paying himself and his mates massive salaries while running the club into the ground? Who could have predicted this!
I'm not defending him as these are pretty terrible financial figures, but he hasn't sat there and thought 'yeah i'll pay myself £1m no one will notice'.
Yeah, I think the owners fell for it, like they did at Sunderland - I didn't say Methven was bad at doing what he does, I just don't think the thing he does well is running football clubs4 -
Chris_from_Sidcup said:The bigger issue for me is that even if there were no executive salary payments and no severance pay offs, our losses would've still been 12m, which is a big increase on the 9.5m from the year before.
How have we found a way to lose an extra 2.5m?
I think we had pretty a bloated squad last season too, with a fair amount of deadwood.2 -
Chris_from_Sidcup said:The bigger issue for me is that even if there were no executive salary payments and no severance pay offs, our losses would've still been 12m, which is a big increase on the 9.5m from the year before.
How have we found a way to lose an extra 2.5m?
Poor attendances
Payoff of Kirk3