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How Big A Step Up
AndyG
Posts: 5,915
I was talking to a Wrexham fan today and asked him how many players he thought they need to make the step up to the championship he thought 4 which surprised me as I think a lot more.
if we get promoted how many of our current squad can be competitive? I think maybe 7
if we get promoted how many of our current squad can be competitive? I think maybe 7
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Honestly, I think it will be very difficult for us to stay up if we can make it. If we do get up, we know the other two sides promoted alongside us are on a different level financially. That means we’re up against fairly established Championship sides in the relegation fight + possibly one or two sides that got promoted from L1 who can outspend us.We’ll need to be very canny in the transfer market alongside being ruthless in getting rid of players who aren’t up for it (even if they’ve played a role in getting us promoted). It’s not impossible for us to survive but it’s a big big ask as I don’t think too many of the current squad are really Championship level, seven may even be generous.4
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If we get to the championship, they cannot look to the U21 squad to fill in the gaps. The owners will need 11 new good quality players. I doubt they have the funding to do that at Championship level.5
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Wrexham need a lot more than 4. Rodriguez and Fletcher are ancient. Very shrewd signings to get them out of League 1 but not gonna cut it in the Championship anymore.AndyG said:I was talking to a Wrexham fan today and asked him how many players he thought they need to make the step up to the championship he thought 4 which surprised me as I think a lot more.
if we get promoted how many of our current squad can be competitive? I think maybe 7
They built a squad in the National League that was good enough to be competitive in League 1. They've tweaked it since then. Putting aside all the irritating showbiz stuff, it's a very well run club. But we've played to our potential since Christmas and have been better than them. If we'd found our feet a month earlier we'd be going up in second.
We will struggle next year if we go up, as I don't think we'll be throwing money at it. And I hope someone's warned Wrexham's owners about the financial differences between League 1 in the Championship, because they'll struggle as well without major investment. I don't see many in their squad that I think world make a big difference for us next year.
Having said that, and possibly contradicting myself a bit, if you look at the sides that finished between 15th and 21st in the Championship this year, you don't need to spend millions to be in an even fight with them to stay out of the bottom three.10 -
Edwards, Jones, Ramsay, Small, Coventry, Docherty, Godden, TC, Leaburn should all be more than capable of doing a job at Championship level.
Previously i would've said the step up was big, but having seen the 3 promoted clubs all survive this season, including Oxford, and i don't think any of them really spent big, it makes me think that maybe the gap between top 6 in league one and the bottom half of the Championship isn't that big after all.18 -
I don't think it's that big a step up to the bottom half of the Championship and a few of our players would be fine. I also think the way we way play would probably help us. We don't try and play expansive possession football, we try and start with an organised solid base and build from there, so we wouldn't be going in trying to outplay teams that may have better players.
Unlike the Premier league where certainly recently the promoted teams have all been coming straight back down, in the Championship teams have been staying up. In the last 4 seasons only 2 of the 12 promoted sides came straight back down.7 -
This. It'll take a lot for us to adjust should we go up but I think Wrexham need more - though they are likely to spend more.MrLargo said:
Wrexham need a lot more than 4. Rodriguez and Fletcher are ancient. Very shrewd signings to get them out of League 1 but not gonna cut it in the Championship anymore.AndyG said:I was talking to a Wrexham fan today and asked him how many players he thought they need to make the step up to the championship he thought 4 which surprised me as I think a lot more.
if we get promoted how many of our current squad can be competitive? I think maybe 7
They built a squad in the National League that was good enough to be competitive in League 1. They've tweaked it since then. Putting aside all the irritating showbiz stuff, it's a very well run club. But we've played to our potential since Christmas and have been better than them. If we'd found our feet a month earlier we'd be going up in second.
We will struggle next year if we go up, as I don't think we'll be throwing money at it. And I hope someone's warned Wrexham's owners about the financial differences between League 1 in the Championship, because they'll struggle as well without major investment. I don't see many in their squad that I think world make a big difference for us next year.
Having said that, and possibly contradicting myself a bit, if you look at the sides that finished between 15th and 21st in the Championship this year, you don't need to spend millions to be in an even fight with them to stay out of the bottom three.
They have a much bigger squad, a lot of whom are over 30 (or well over 30) who won't make the step up or are no longer good enough for that level but will be under contract. We have more young players capable of stepping up. Still plenty of gaps that need filling and you need a bigger squad in the championship than we have currently. Depends on who we keep but I think TC, Leaburn, Godden, Berry, Cov, Small, Jones, Ramsay, Edwards, Gilly are all capable of stepping up. Others like Doc, Manion are find backups/squad players.1 -
As intimated above, I think the gap between l1 and champ lower is not a great leap. We played well against Preston and only really lost due to a poor backpass. They have also been obsessing over Thierry Small since that game so our players seem good enough.0
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This feels like an incredibly optimistic view, but each to their own. I watch a fair amount of Championship games on Sky and it really does seem like a big step up from the pub league we’re currently in.BalladMan said:As intimated above, I think the gap between l1 and champ lower is not a great leap. We played well against Preston and only really lost due to a poor backpass. They have also been obsessing over Thierry Small since that game so our players seem good enough.0 -
Why as many as 11 new players? If we go up and that’s your expectation I think you’ll be disappointed.msomerton said:If we get to the championship, they cannot look to the U21 squad to fill in the gaps. The owners will need 11 new good quality players. I doubt they have the funding to do that at Championship level.
No doubt we’d bring in signings, but part of this ownerships plan is to bring academy players through, so there will be gaps in the squad where NJ feels we can make room for an u21 player. As long as it’s not forced on him and the players are genuinely good enough then that’s a positive thing.
In time I also see us funding a bigger budget via player sales. We’ve signed some good players in their early to mid 20s like Ramsay and Edwards will be worth a lot more than the amount we paid for them, and plenty of academy players are progressing, even if at this stage it’s only obvious with TC.2 -
Wrexham fans thinking they only need 4 players is one of the funniest things I've read on here. More like double figures to replace the amount of average 30+ players they've got.
I think we'd be in a lot better of a position if promoted then they will be.
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Main issue for Wrexham will be shifting the dead weight. Mullin, Palmer, O’Connell, Lee, Faal etc aren’t up to Championship level but will be on such big wages they’d be stupid to leave1
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Some will make the step up and some won’t. Some will surprise us on both sides of the equation. A first choice GK. Without doubt we’ll need two strikers to come in. I doubt our centre back options are adequate barring Jones so probably two there also. Central midfield as is wont compete in The Championship so I’d say at least two there. That’s seven before we’ve turned a wheel. I’d also like to think that our owners are smart enough to realise that a promotion followed by an immediate relegation is a disaster financially. We’d basically be back to square one. Not saying I expect them to spend a fortune but unless there is a realistic amount spent then the long term future isn’t as rosy as I thought it might be. We also mustn’t forget PL loans. We’ll need to be clever in that aspect of recruitment. I know Jones isn’t a fan of loans but with a budget he’ll probably have available we’ll definitely need the loan market.2
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Doc is one of our better players and wasn't wanted by Hull who narrowly avoided relegation.
Gillesphey couldn't get a game at Plymouth who were relegated.
I think Edwards, Jones, Ramsey, Coventry, Small and TC all could step up. Doc & Godden would be fine squad players. Leaburn it's unclear. We would need 10-15 new players on top which would be a sea change of investment for our owners whilst also ensuring we passed FFP rules.1 -
We definitely won’t be getting 10 - 15 players coming in. Not a chance.Athletico Charlton said:Doc is one of our better players and wasn't wanted by Hull who narrowly avoided relegation.
Gillesphey couldn't get a game at Plymouth who were relegated.
I think Edwards, Jones, Ramsey, Coventry, Small and TC all could step up. Doc & Godden would be fine squad players. Leaburn it's unclear. We would need 10-15 new players on top which would be a sea change of investment for our owners whilst also ensuring we passed FFP rules.4 -
What have Oxford United done (or Plymouth the season before)?Theirs is the kind of example we are likely to follow in terms of squad development following any promotion…which is still not yet achieved.0
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jose said:What have Oxford United done (or Plymouth the season before)?Theirs is the kind of example we are likely to follow in terms of squad development following any promotion…which is still not yet achieved.
Mainly frees with a couple of £400k-1m signings for Oxford. Maxed out on loans.
Main signing was £2m on an Indonesian international striker from Holland - makes sense with their owners.1 -
jose said:What have Oxford United done (or Plymouth the season before)?Theirs is the kind of example we are likely to follow in terms of squad development following any promotion…which is still not yet achieved.
According to Transfermarkt then INCLUDING loans (number of loans in brackets). No idea how many might have been for u21 squads etc of course.
- Oxford in 24/25 have 21 new signings (4)
- Plymouth who were already in the Championship for a year made 16 new signings in 24/25 (6)
- Portsmouth in 24/25 made 24 signings (7)
- Derby in 24/25 made 19 signings (6)
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Zach Mitchell should be in our Championship squad if we get there.
Has had rave reviews for his time up in Scotland.2 -
I think our starting 11 would be fine to make up the squad plus players like Zach Mitchell should be given a chance, in reality it all depends what you want to do. If we are talking about survival i think we need 3/4 more (GK, 2 Midfielders, Full back) who are first team level. If we are talking pushing for promotion I'm not sure many if any of our starting 11 would be good enough frankly, maybe Small, Edwards, Jones, Coventry and Campbell (if he becomes more consistent) would be the only ones who can make an argument but its no foregone conclusion.AndyG said:I was talking to a Wrexham fan today and asked him how many players he thought they need to make the step up to the championship he thought 4 which surprised me as I think a lot more.
if we get promoted how many of our current squad can be competitive? I think maybe 7
Equally you may have to start looking abroad for players because the quality of the players needed will be too expensive if we remain buying from other EFL clubs at that level but its also a gamble to spend money on foreign players who are unproven under the demand so f the English football season.
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Forget the step up question. Regardless of which league we are in next season I think we’ll need to replace, improve and refresh a number of positions in the current squad.2
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As ever, player recruitment and the 'quality' we get will depend on what MONEY is available.
I m o we will need seven new faces at least. The midfield and strikers need a right overhaul, an experienced keeper and central defender. If you've seen the relegated Prem teams on the TV and /or the promoted clubs into the Prem, they would all murder us if we played them now.
As said above, the money and resources available to their managers leaves us looking like paupers.
If/when we go up, whoever we can sign, survival will take a mammoth effort0 -
It will be far easier to recruit this season than it has been for a while. Charlton are clearly an improving team, with an established, successful manager and a stable ownership. When were we last able to say that to prospective recruits?2
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There's 3 different steps for me.
Step 1, buy 3 or 4 players and try to survive.
Step 2, buy 6 or 7 players and try to establish.
Step 3, buy 10 or 11 players and try to springboard.
I suspect we'll do step 2.
For me it would be:
NEW GK, Mannion
NEW RWB, Small
Ramsay, A.Mitchell
Jones, Z.Mitchell
New CB, Gillesphey
Edwards, NEW LWB
Docherty, NEW CM
Coventry, Anderson
NEW CAM, Berry
Godden, NEW ST
Campbell, Leaburn
Wildcards/backups of Kanu, Dixon, Mbick, Enslin
Moved on/not retained: the loanees, AMB, Watson, Taylor, Aneke, Ahadme, Hylton
That would be the majority of the team held together, but with 4 distinct upgrades in the first XI, and hopefully stronger depth in other key areas4 -
Oxford United and Derby County both got in proven Championship managers to turn their seasons around. And I do think manager know how is very important in the Championship, especially for clubs on a limited budget. Indeed, if Plymouth (& Birmingham City previously) had’t mucked around with the Wayne Rooney experiment they would have stayed up.Chris_from_Sidcup said:Edwards, Jones, Ramsay, Small, Coventry, Docherty, Godden, TC, Leaburn should all be more than capable of doing a job at Championship level.
Previously i would've said the step up was big, but having seen the 3 promoted clubs all survive this season, including Oxford, and i don't think any of them really spent big, it makes me think that maybe the gap between top 6 in league one and the bottom half of the Championship isn't that big after all.Cardiff City had been circling the relegation drain for a while & Luton Town had a weird season. So you’d assume it’ll be tougher next season, as maybe only Stoke City remain as club getting worse year on year.0 -
We need 4 who to compete for 1st IX in spine of the team.
Goalkeeper, CB, CM/10 and Striker. The rest can be made up of loans and young players. IMO1 -
Agree with this, but also add an extra striker/attacker unless we really back Mbick/Kanu/Dixon (I don’t think so at championship level yet). So 8 signingssam3110 said:There's 3 different steps for me.
Step 1, buy 3 or 4 players and try to survive.
Step 2, buy 6 or 7 players and try to establish.
Step 3, buy 10 or 11 players and try to springboard.
I suspect we'll do step 2.
For me it would be:
NEW GK, Mannion
NEW RWB, Small
Ramsay, A.Mitchell
Jones, Z.Mitchell
New CB, Gillesphey
Edwards, NEW LWB
Docherty, NEW CM
Coventry, Anderson
NEW CAM, Berry
Godden, NEW ST
Campbell, Leaburn
Wildcards/backups of Kanu, Dixon, Mbick, Enslin
Moved on/not retained: the loanees, AMB, Watson, Taylor, Aneke, Ahadme, Hylton
That would be the majority of the team held together, but with 4 distinct upgrades in the first XI, and hopefully stronger depth in other key areas
Jones has said he doesn’t like loans but I think that attitude changes a lot if we go up. When you have one of the bigger budgets in the league like we do now, it’s easy to not have to rely on loans. In the championship our budget will be much smaller than most teams so we will need to use the loan market more than we have this season1 -
Championship is a jump both technically and physically. I actually think the physical gap between the leagues is what is growing, it’s been spoken about a lot with the Championship to premier league gap and why teams are struggling, but I listened to an interview with Gary Rowett yesterday where he said the jump between league 1 and the championship in terms of physicality is also huge and been a challenge for Oxford this season. I think we are in a good place to bridge the gap, as physically we are probably one of the better sides in league 1 in terms of fitness and size, but I do think we’d need to add some more power and pace to the squad to have a chance of staying up
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Pretty much agree, although wont be surprised if Hylton retires, and joins the Coaching teamsam3110 said:There's 3 different steps for me.
Step 1, buy 3 or 4 players and try to survive.
Step 2, buy 6 or 7 players and try to establish.
Step 3, buy 10 or 11 players and try to springboard.
I suspect we'll do step 2.
For me it would be:
NEW GK, Mannion
NEW RWB, Small
Ramsay, A.Mitchell
Jones, Z.Mitchell
New CB, Gillesphey
Edwards, NEW LWB
Docherty, NEW CM
Coventry, Anderson
NEW CAM, Berry
Godden, NEW ST
Campbell, Leaburn
Wildcards/backups of Kanu, Dixon, Mbick, Enslin
Moved on/not retained: the loanees, AMB, Watson, Taylor, Aneke, Ahadme, Hylton
That would be the majority of the team held together, but with 4 distinct upgrades in the first XI, and hopefully stronger depth in other key areas0 -
We are better placed than 2019 IMO. Firstly we had loan players playing a key role then which we couldn't sign again and then we lost Aribo. I think having young improving players, they can step up to the level being a season older. It is very hard in reality to know how many new players we would need. It could be quite a small number.
When we went up last time we missed out on staying up by goal difference and a poor late ref's decision at Barnsley with a situation that looked like we were trying to fail. What we can also look at within all this talking up the level is that the three promoted teams from last season stayed up. I'm not saying it won't be hard but maybe it won't be as hard as we think and anything is probably possible.3 -
Last time we were a bit unfortunate with injuries to Sam Field, Lye Taylor and Beram Kayal. Covid didn't seem to help much either. The Valley crowd had been excellent in getting behind the team and there were some impressive backs to the wall victories.
I think we'd need at least six new good ones and hope that the youngsters keep improving.
Then it will be down to form, managerial skill and luck with injuries.3
