Starting to really get really frustrated with Stephens. Against Bournemouth as the first comment said he was different class and ran the show but in alot of games i forget he was on the pitch. He clearly has lots of potential but i wished he would show it more and played well on the consistent basis!
Think in the last few games we've been closed down very quickly, and often by their 3 cms against our 2, and have so often chosen to bypass the midfield.
He has got quality, but we need to use him properly and get him on the ball in positions where he can hurt the other team.
A season and a bit on, what do people make of Dale and his progress?
I think its fair to say he has his fair share of critics as well as fans. I personally think he has alot of ability and one of the only players in the squad who can put his foot on the ball and dictate the play. He can be sloppy at times which is something I hope he improves with age, I have no problem with his passing side ways providing he is finding a red shirt.
I think his biggest problem is that he sits too deep, I am not sure if he has been told to do this by CP but I dont think its bringing the best out of him.
Dont get on his back, hes still only 22 and has alot of potential imo.
I hate the phrase but he is a marmite player who people seem to love or hate.
He can pass, shoot and tackle. Against that he is not particularly mobile (although in fairness may still be carrying a bit of an injury at the moment) and does tend to go missing.
In a strong midfield he could be a positive asset and the fulcrum of creativity. In Charlton's midfield as it stands he is a luxury we cannot carry.
I'm sounding like Parky when he left Shelvey out, something I strongly disagreed with. Parky though replaced Shelvey with Racon who offered nothing different to Shelvey and rather less of their similar characteristics. The number of games he's played for Millwall when fit says it all.
I think the only way Stephens can be accommodated is in a midfield five. The question then is alongside whom?
My choice would be Wagstaff / Haynes, Dervite, Pritchard, Kerkar
Waggy appears to have been frozen out and Haynes is made of glass and only good for the odd 30 minutes so in reality Green would have to play on the right.
I have been saying he is massively over rated for about 6 months now & constantly get told I'm wrong. Looks like some people are finally starting to see it!
I'm not saying he is shit, but he is nowhere near as good as some on here seem to think he is!
Thought it was 800k - 1m? Like Dale but he needs the right players along side to allow him to play his game and bring out the best of him. Dont relish CP selection options at the moment, we dont really have a CM battler
For me he has to start doing more. You rarely come on here and see people saying how well Stephens played or how he controlled the midfield
If we rejected 2m for him then we have shot ourselves in the foot as I can imagine in 2 years time we'll be saying the exact same criticisms of him as we have now
He has come on a bit this year and is quicker into the tackle etc but he just doesn't seem to have the engine which is why, i think, he doesn't seem to pass and move, give an go etc, which, for a perceived 'playmaker' / 'creative player', isa hell of a drawback.He makes a pass and then watches - i liken him to an underpowered estate car.
Stephens was bottom or close to the bottom of the CL ratings last season.
He's 16th out of 20 this season.
We can't all be wrong.
I still can't believe on Saturday he just stood there & watched the ball rolling slowly towards the West Stand touchline, near the players entrance. He was motionless for a few seconds, before he decided he'd better run after it.
If he was unfit I forgive him, although not sure he should have been on the pitch in that case.
If not, that's not acceptable. That was the type of thing some of our previous relegation team would do.
I can stomach losing if we try 100%, but not that.
For me that was just about the most upsetting thing about Saturday.
Stephens is a very poor mans Glen Hoddle (don't laugh). He likes to stand around & ping passes about. He's a luxury player, that you can afford, if you have the rest of the midfield, tackling & making runs. Unfortunately,we don't.
Michael Carrick is a good comparison. Like Stephens, some people just don't rate him, others think he's a very good player. He doesn't stand out, and if you're struggling people question if he's doing enough. If you're doing well he keeps possession, is comfortable on the ball etc.
The obvious thing to me is that we don't get the best out of him playing alongside Hollands and Jackson (plus Green if in a 4 man midfield). We got away with it in League 1, but they're too slow at this level to play together. Pritchard's quicker but has the same weaknesses in that he's not comfortable running with the ball.
I'm not sure about him playing further forward, he's clearly more comfortable dropping deep and passing the ball, rather than making runs and dribbling with the ball.
I think he'd look a very good player in the right midfield (while others wouldn't be able to make the step up). Ideally I'd say that would be a Scott Parker type in the middle - someone that puts tackles in, can carry the ball and add drive, pace and energy. Then out wide if we had a Championship standard winger (Wilson is only one looking like he might get there at the moment) and another creative player (a Reid or Jensen type).
Last season some compared him to Steven Gerrard - he's not that type of player. We're not going to see him drive forward with the ball, dominate the midfield and be creative in the way players like Reid or Jensen were - but alongside better players he could be capable of stepping up.
He can spreads the ball out wide fairly well, but at the same time he slows things down and the opposition get back behind the ball. With the right midfielders next to him they would be the ones upping the tempo and running with the ball, Stephens would be the one getting the ball off the defence and giving it to them.
For me, the moment people say things like 'he'd be okay with the right players around him' i think you have the answer. It's like the BWP debate - neither BWP or Stephens are good enough to build a team around in my opinion.
His best atribute is his ability to produce the defence splitting pass, unfortunately he rarely seems to get into dangerous positions, as he spends most of the game shuttling around the half way line.
I do worry about his engine, he's not very mobile, if he could improve his fitness/mobility and become more of a box to box player, he'd be a much better player.
He's certainly wasted playing so deep, somehow we need to get him forward where his ablity to pick out a pass the rest just don't see could open up defences.
Well Pritchard seems to get far more positive reviews, yet I cannot see why IMO. What does Pritchard have in his locker thatg makes him so much stronger?
Well Pritchard seems to get far more positive reviews, yet I cannot see why IMO. What does Pritchard have in his locker thatg makes him so much stronger?
Maybe Pricthard works hard / harder - but then again so would I, but I doubt I would be anywhere near peoples first choice on here!
You need more than hard work in the champ - and for me, Stephens provides that.
Different types of players for me. I really like Bradley Pritchard. Has decent ball control and will put himself about.
Stephens is the sort of player who really could come into his own if we had more possession of the ball. Plus he can hit a shot from range better than anyone else in the squad.
The England players tend to have better players around them, unfortuately usually called Xavi, Juan, Lionel and playing for France, Spain, Italy etc....
I think that Stephens is the one player who can get on the ball and pass it. He does have things that he need to work on, sometimes trys the wrong pass, a little slow to react at time however he is still only 22 so has time to learn.
However he isnt someone who will just lump the ball forward and if there isnt a pass on he will rather keep possession and pass sideways rather than just giving the ball back to the opposition, which as in many games we arent going to have much possession is key as we need a break from chasing the ball when other team has it.
The problem for him is that there isnt enough pace around him, we arent quick enough with our attacks and when we do have a slow build up which at times is fine the movement off the ball is non-existent. This means that often than not he is seen on the ball in a deep midfield position with 2 banks of 4 to pass through if the ball is to go forward with a lack of movement from players higher up the park. This means the only options are to go sideways, backwards or try a pass that isnt on. It at this point the crowd then gets on his back.
To complete a pass it take the movement from the players off the ball as well as the person making the pass being able to pick them out. I think we have all seen the Stevens has a great range of passing, just not people in positions to pass to.
I do however feel at times I would like to see Stephens get involved and for his movement to also be better to receive a pass in a dangerous position. It would be good to see him further up the park as I think he has the ability to make surges into the box and support the attack more. I think Stephens is one of our best players and with his ability we should be looking to play to his strengths which at present I don’t think we are.
Stephens needs a solid defensive midfielder alongside him. He "CAN" pass, tackle, run and score goals, but he doesn't do it often enough because of the job asked of him and i think that is why people don't rate him that highly, because he spends a lot time over exposed in midfield caused by the people around him. If he were given the freedom to push forward a bit more i think he would be great player for us. In a strong midfield i honestly think he would be a excellent. However until he has some strength around him he will disappear on occasions and seem ineffective.
Well Pritchard seems to get far more positive reviews, yet I cannot see why IMO. What does Pritchard have in his locker thatg makes him so much stronger?
Maybe Pricthard works hard / harder - but then again so would I, but I doubt I would be anywhere near peoples first choice on here!
You need more than hard work in the champ - and for me, Stephens provides that.
Why not both? Stephens needs pace and energy alongside him, Pritchard needs players with more quality on the ball.
Pritchard showed in the first half on Saturday he closes down much better than Stephens, Jackson or Hollands, and is probably better at getting into the box at this level.
I hope to see 4-5-1 tonight with Dervite, Pritchard and one of Stephens, Jackson and Hollands.
Stephens needs a solid defensive midfielder alongside him. He "CAN" pass, tackle, run and score goals, but he doesn't do it often enough because of the job asked of him and i think that is why people don't rate him that highly, because he spends a lot time over exposed in midfield caused by the people around him. If he were given the freedom to push forward a bit more i think he would be great player for us. In a strong midfield i honestly think he would be a excellent. However until he has some strength around him he will disappear on occasions and seem ineffective.
Agreed. I can just see an Ambrose scenario happening where if he were to go to somebody else in the upper half of the Championship then he would be banging em in all over the place.
Comments
He is a good league one player with potential.
He has gone missing for long periods recently, hopefully he'll come good again.
Think in the last few games we've been closed down very quickly, and often by their 3 cms against our 2, and have so often chosen to bypass the midfield.
He has got quality, but we need to use him properly and get him on the ball in positions where he can hurt the other team.
I think its fair to say he has his fair share of critics as well as fans. I personally think he has alot of ability and one of the only players in the squad who can put his foot on the ball and dictate the play. He can be sloppy at times which is something I hope he improves with age, I have no problem with his passing side ways providing he is finding a red shirt.
I think his biggest problem is that he sits too deep, I am not sure if he has been told to do this by CP but I dont think its bringing the best out of him.
Dont get on his back, hes still only 22 and has alot of potential imo.
Decent player, capable of playing at this level & has potential to go further.
He can pass, shoot and tackle. Against that he is not particularly mobile (although in fairness may still be carrying a bit of an injury at the moment) and does tend to go missing.
In a strong midfield he could be a positive asset and the fulcrum of creativity. In Charlton's midfield as it stands he is a luxury we cannot carry.
I'm sounding like Parky when he left Shelvey out, something I strongly disagreed with. Parky though replaced Shelvey with Racon who offered nothing different to Shelvey and rather less of their similar characteristics. The number of games he's played for Millwall when fit says it all.
I think the only way Stephens can be accommodated is in a midfield five. The question then is alongside whom?
My choice would be Wagstaff / Haynes, Dervite, Pritchard, Kerkar
Waggy appears to have been frozen out and Haynes is made of glass and only good for the odd 30 minutes so in reality Green would have to play on the right.
I'm not saying he is shit, but he is nowhere near as good as some on here seem to think he is!
If we rejected 2m for him then we have shot ourselves in the foot as I can imagine in 2 years time we'll be saying the exact same criticisms of him as we have now
He's 16th out of 20 this season.
We can't all be wrong.
I still can't believe on Saturday he just stood there & watched the ball rolling slowly towards the West Stand touchline, near the players entrance. He was motionless for a few seconds, before he decided he'd better run after it.
If he was unfit I forgive him, although not sure he should have been on the pitch in that case.
If not, that's not acceptable. That was the type of thing some of our previous relegation team would do.
I can stomach losing if we try 100%, but not that.
For me that was just about the most upsetting thing about Saturday.
Stephens is a very poor mans Glen Hoddle (don't laugh). He likes to stand around & ping passes about.
He's a luxury player, that you can afford, if you have the rest of the midfield, tackling & making runs. Unfortunately,we don't.
The obvious thing to me is that we don't get the best out of him playing alongside Hollands and Jackson (plus Green if in a 4 man midfield). We got away with it in League 1, but they're too slow at this level to play together. Pritchard's quicker but has the same weaknesses in that he's not comfortable running with the ball.
I'm not sure about him playing further forward, he's clearly more comfortable dropping deep and passing the ball, rather than making runs and dribbling with the ball.
I think he'd look a very good player in the right midfield (while others wouldn't be able to make the step up). Ideally I'd say that would be a Scott Parker type in the middle - someone that puts tackles in, can carry the ball and add drive, pace and energy. Then out wide if we had a Championship standard winger (Wilson is only one looking like he might get there at the moment) and another creative player (a Reid or Jensen type).
Last season some compared him to Steven Gerrard - he's not that type of player. We're not going to see him drive forward with the ball, dominate the midfield and be creative in the way players like Reid or Jensen were - but alongside better players he could be capable of stepping up.
He can spreads the ball out wide fairly well, but at the same time he slows things down and the opposition get back behind the ball. With the right midfielders next to him they would be the ones upping the tempo and running with the ball, Stephens would be the one getting the ball off the defence and giving it to them.
I do worry about his engine, he's not very mobile, if he could improve his fitness/mobility and become more of a box to box player, he'd be a much better player.
Give him some protection in a 4-5-1 or dont play him.
Set piece delivery - Stephens
Creativity / assists - Stephens
Goals - Stephens
Maybe Pricthard works hard / harder - but then again so would I, but I doubt I would be anywhere near peoples first choice on here!
You need more than hard work in the champ - and for me, Stephens provides that.
Stephens is the sort of player who really could come into his own if we had more possession of the ball. Plus he can hit a shot from range better than anyone else in the squad.
However he isnt someone who will just lump the ball forward and if there isnt a pass on he will rather keep possession and pass sideways rather than just giving the ball back to the opposition, which as in many games we arent going to have much possession is key as we need a break from chasing the ball when other team has it.
The problem for him is that there isnt enough pace around him, we arent quick enough with our attacks and when we do have a slow build up which at times is fine the movement off the ball is non-existent. This means that often than not he is seen on the ball in a deep midfield position with 2 banks of 4 to pass through if the ball is to go forward with a lack of movement from players higher up the park. This means the only options are to go sideways, backwards or try a pass that isnt on. It at this point the crowd then gets on his back.
To complete a pass it take the movement from the players off the ball as well as the person making the pass being able to pick them out. I think we have all seen the Stevens has a great range of passing, just not people in positions to pass to.
I do however feel at times I would like to see Stephens get involved and for his movement to also be better to receive a pass in a dangerous position. It would be good to see him further up the park as I think he has the ability to make surges into the box and support the attack more.
I think Stephens is one of our best players and with his ability we should be looking to play to his strengths which at present I don’t think we are.
Pritchard showed in the first half on Saturday he closes down much better than Stephens, Jackson or Hollands, and is probably better at getting into the box at this level.
I hope to see 4-5-1 tonight with Dervite, Pritchard and one of Stephens, Jackson and Hollands.