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UK loses AAA credit rating

Well obviously it comes to no surprise to me at all when we got the government borrowing more than we are receiving, has no logics on growth and not cutting enough. Well maybe a Labour government will solve everything? Well, judging by their economic polices and getting us into this debt in the first place I have no confidence whatsoever. I was watching Prime Ministers Questions sometime ago and when the debate was in discussion about the economy, David Cameron and Ed Milliband were actually both right because they were criticising each other, so they are bad as each other.

I am dreading the next few years unless we take some drastic messures that helps improve our economy. I personally think Growth starts by putting more money in people's pockets. That is best done by reducing the tax burden on businesses and lowering personal taxes. By failing to get a real grip on government spending, the chancellor has been unable to make people better off and the chickens have come home to roost.

Another big drain on our economy is the ongoing war in Afghanistan. God knows how much it is costing, but we know from past experience of war that it can bankrupt countries quicker than than any other disaster which befalls it. We have sent troops to be slaughtered, Costly equipment, aid in large amounts and yet more of the same for 12, or 13 years with no results whatsoever. Afghanistan can not be beaten! We tried many years ago and failed. The Ruskies tried several times and failed. Get out now and leave them to it and watch our credit rating rise again. Meanwhile, let's get out of the EU ASAP and the HR Act so we can export another drain on our finances.
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Comments

  • Towards the end of the last Labour administration George Osborne said in a speech that if we were to loose our triple A credit rating, which appeared possible at the time, it would prove that Labour's economic policies had failed. Yet, here we are a few years later and we have lost that rating under George Osborne, yet he doesn't feel his policies have failed and his remedy seems to be "more of the same". Jeez I fear for all our futures.
  • edited February 2013
    This is not a flippant comment. The UK is fecked.

    I wouldn't trust George Osborne or Ed Balls to make a decent job of organising my sock draw. My advice to anyone under age 30 is to get the hell out.
  • Can't say I'm relishing the thought of the next few years either Saga Lout. With the leaders this country have (of all political persuasions), think we're pretty much doomed.

    Watched a film called 'the Day' yesterday about survivors of some unspecified societal breakdown and I said to my missus that that will probably be our society in our lifetime. I was only half joking.
  • This is not a flippant comment. The UK is fecked.

    I wouldn't trust George Osborne or Ed Balls to make a decent job of organising my sock draw. My advice to anyone under age 30 is to get the hell out.

    Where would you go though?
  • Canada would be my preference.
  • Canada would be my preference.

    Was just about to say Canada.
  • Yep, Canada for me too. Wish my family never moved us back from there when I was a kid.
  • edited February 2013
    Its swings and roundabouts i think. I am personally better off now than ever ie this is the first time in my life that i dont literally lose sleep over how im gonna pay my rent.

    Never had a pot to piss in during the so called boom years but have now got sky tv, a season ticket at charlton, roof over my head, know where my next meal is coming from and may even be able to have a holiday this year.....that is what i consider a life of luxury. But is probably what society deems the norm now.

    I think most people i know probably have the same and are better off than their grandparents, great grandparents etc.

    I dont mean to be insensitive as if i lost my job tomorrow and couldnt get another one as many on here have it would all change but Ive been in that position before and would go back to labouring etc to pay the rent and get what i needed to survive.

    Maybe our perspective has changed and we have starting deeming luxuries like cars, owned homes, sky tv, i phones, laptops, xboxes and holidays etc as expected rights rather than luxuries that we are lucky to have.
    Not matter how bad things get under this and future govs in next decade i imagine we will all still have a better standard of living than 99.9 % of the world.

    There aren't bread queues forming and people aren't dying in the street.....they are still queing in new motors to get into Bluewater car park to buy more luxuries, drinking in pubs, eating Sunday carverys in packed pubs and booking holidays to the carribean and australia.

    Yes most people cant get what we want when we want maybe as easily as five or ten years ago but was it really any different? There was a period when the working and lower middle classes went through a boom of previouslyu unseen home ownership but that was an anomoly that has skewed the market and make most places unaffordable for the rest in areas like London. Havent got a mortgage yet and may never be able to get one but it's not the end of the world and im not gonna moan how unfair it is that previous generations found it easier to get one or that i have to move from greater london to get on the ladder.


    Times are hard (relative to when they were better/ less hard in previous years) for many but overall they are probably better for most than ever surely?
  • The thing is, we keep on stepping into random battles and wars and conflicts etc. and using up our resources to the benefit of others. Not only that, but we have let in far too many people in the past 20 years or so and that has taken it's toll. We have a housing problem due to giving them away all to easily to immigrants, we don't have the dosh to build more housing, and any new housing built is too expensive for people to pay for during the recession. This isn't limited to housing either, it can be applied to jobs and food too. The cost of living has risen enormously, yet wages haven't risen enough to keep up with that. In the last 10 years alone petrol has doubled in price, buses have gone from 70p to £2.40 and don't get me started on train tickets!

    We are a complete mess right now, what little money we have is being mis-spent, the economy cannot recover sufficiently to stop the recession and all the while jobs are becoming harder to obtain as some of the nations biggest companies are struggling to stay alive.

    As soon as my partner has finished all her studies we will be looking to get out of this poxy country
  • Same situation as you RCT really. Sounds harsh but it is my reality.
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  • edited February 2013
    The cost of living for the essential basics like rent, food, utilities and travel are ludicrously expensive and probably proportionately higher than my grandparents had to pay but at the same time they didnt have the non essentials that my generation seem to demand ie consumerables like mobile phones, sky tv, holidays, xboxes, new motors and nights out that we seem to expect but dont need and all cost money.

  • Have to agree Rodney. I am certainly better off than I have ever been but I have, fortunately, been with one employer for 28 years and worked hard to get to where I am. I am also fortunate to have been brought up in what I consider a good way. When I want to buy something, aside from usual weekly shop, I ensure that I save up for it. I don't use credit cards or have loans. But, I did in my 20s/early 30s and had to make sacrifices to finally get out of that situation. No holidays for years, no extravagances and certainly not much on myself.

    As for the country, surprised the AAA wasn't lost sooner. This government shot themselves in the foot by steadfastly stating that there was only one way. Plan A. They gave themselves no room to manoeuvre when the economy failed to improve and they are borrowing more and certainly not reducing the deficit...whatever they try to spout every opportunity they get.

    The damage this does to the strength of the pound will be seen in coming months as petrol, energy & food prices all rise further. It will only be tougher for another few years to come.
  • RCT - not sure mate but my standard of living has gone down over the past three years. Had a pay freeze for that time so with the cost of practically everything going up, in real terms a pay cut. My missus has been made redundant three times in that period and is now on a temporary contract. Haven't had a decent foreign holiday in that time even though physically and mentally I'm crying out for two weeks in the sun due to increased work stress.

    Need my lottery numbers to come up because I really don't see a positive upturn in my circumstances.
  • edited February 2013
    WSS said:

    Same situation as you RCT really. Sounds harsh but it is my reality.

    It's not meant to sound harsh or insensitive mate but it's swings and roundabouts. We were never "All in it together" and never will be.

    I was labouring 6 days a week and scrubbing toilets on building sites/worked minimum wage (and below) and lived in bedsits barely affording the rent whilst the media told me it was boom time and New Labour had saved the world and the future was bright for everyone. Didnt seem much of a gravy train to me back then but ten years later under the worst economic climate for generations ive never had it so good.

    Its the luck of the draw really. Doing ok now ie can afford luxuries like sky and the odd holiday but never gonna be able to afford to snort coke off a supermodel's navel as she lies on the bonnet of my new ferrari. Still i realise that now and even years back then when i didnt have a pot to piss in that i was living a much better standard of life that the vast majority of people in the world.

    I think we are spoilt in the UK and expect to much. I dont expect anything to be given to me as a right but we get free education, health care, housing, family allowance, state pension, benefits etc and its up to you to make the best of what you have. No goverment is ever going to give everyone a footballers lifestyle and no one owes anyone a living.

    Life isnt fair but the majority of people in this country have been dealt a pretty good hand just being born here.

    This made me laugh and sums up the "expect something for nothing" that too many people have in this country nowdays.... http://www.lbc.co.uk/listen-sacked-for-being-30-mins-late-for-work-67885
  • Totally agree with your sentiments in the latter half of the above post Rodders. Life is a struggle for me compared to some in this country but I still maintain a certain amount of happiness because at least I'm not trying to exist in some third world hellhole with no access to clean water or not knowing where my next meal is coming from.

    For that I count my blessings.
  • If your only choices of countries to move to are those with a Moody's AAA rating, then you have a pretty small list: Australia, Austria, Canada, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Isle of Man, Luxembourg, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, Switzerland, and the USA. You'll notice that some of those are quite difficult places to move to visa-wise, many are very cold places to live and often with very high rates of personal taxation.
    It's also interesting that Austria, Germany, Netherlands and USA are on negative watch and could well lose their AAA rating.
    BTW, S&P's list is different: Austria is already downgraded, HK and Lichenstein are AAA but Isle of Man isn't, while we are still AAA rated but the USA isn't.
    I said on another thread that the sooner that we stop getting hung up on growth - politicians of all colours can take the blame for this - the better. It is perfectly obvious that continous never-ending growth is utterly unattainable. Growth is only important to politicians because it allows them to carry on spending (flushing down the toilet) ever increasing amounts of money on stupid concepts like child benefit.
  • You wouldn't want to move to Simgapore unless you are very rich or have a good job. Condos are in excess of 1m landed property 2m. Ford focus circa 80k. Upside loan rates around 1.8% for personal, lower for mortgages and you can get 10 x your salary.

    It is not a country to retire to unless you had silly money.
  • The Aussies have a bumper sticker with a picture of their flag that says "Love it or leave it".

    If People really think they'd be better off elsewhere then they are more than welcome to fuck off as far as I'm concerned. Better that than them constantly whining and moaning about it and doing their best to make the rest of us miserable. You don't like your lot - then change it.

    The UK has many faults, but there's nowhere else I'd currently rather live.
  • Good sentiment Offy. As someone who has done it (moved abroad) I can assure you the grass isn't always greener. The UK is not a bad place to live, given the money we would divide our time between here and Britain. The government here is far more corrupt and controlling than in the UK, believe me. International credit ratings supposedly mean very little according to one article I read?
  • By far the best analysis of the UK's predicament and why none of the major parties have yet "got it" (or perhaps got the balls to do the necessary).

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/liamhalligan/9889901/Britains-credit-downgrade-is-a-call-to-live-within-our-means.html
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  • Off_it said:

    The Aussies have a bumper sticker with a picture of their flag that says "Love it or leave it".

    If People really think they'd be better off elsewhere then they are more than welcome to fuck off as far as I'm concerned. Better that than them constantly whining and moaning about it and doing their best to make the rest of us miserable. You don't like your lot - then change it.

    The UK has many faults, but there's nowhere else I'd currently rather live.

    It's piss easy isn't it. "If you don't like it fuck off" I'm 57 and have a job with a pension that I can't afford to abandon at this stage. I have newly married daughter who one day no doubt will give me grandchildren. It's not as simple as you suggest. What I was suggesting is that if I knew then what I know now I think it would have been the right decision for me to move abroad. I have advised my daughter to think about it.I wish I had had the knowledge and balls to do it. But thanks for your usual aggressive response.
  • Can I ask a silly question? Who do "we" owe all this money to?
  • I thought the bankers owed me a few quid after my tax pounds bailed them out. Don't think I'll hold my breath for it tho.
  • edited February 2013

    I thought the bankers owed me a few quid after my tax pounds bailed them out. Don't think I'll hold my breath for it tho.

    Im sure they'll pay it back when everyone pays back in full the mortgages, overdrafts, credit cards, loans and other borrowings they lent them.

    The bankers are wankers but same time people need to take responsibility and have a different mindest eg buy what they can afford and live within their means like previous generations used to. Cannot believe how many people still use credit cards, loans etc for things they dont need but want and go to any shopping centre and people are still getting debted up to the hilt buying crap on credit every day to make themselves feel better. Madness.

    Easy to blame it all on the bankers and politicians but almost everyone enjoyed the credit they offered and now have the hump they have to pay it back.

    Have mates who piss and moan about being skint and not being able to afford a deposit on a mortgage but wont think twice of pissing away £10k on a credit card to pay for must have foreign holidays and cars.
  • edited February 2013

    Can I ask a silly question? Who do "we" owe all this money to?

    Everybody who owns Government Bonds. So financial institutions, banks & pension funds around the world.

  • Dont have any credit or mortgage. Why am I in the same boat as everyone else then Rodders? :-)
  • Dont have any credit or mortgage. Why am I in the same boat as everyone else then Rodders? :-)

    The capitalist system unfortunately i suppose Algarve. Abramovic and and Carlos Slim at the top and kids going through rubbish mounts for food scraps, making Nike sportswear or starving to death from birth at the bottom with most of us somewhere in between on the spectrum.

  • Off_it said:

    The Aussies have a bumper sticker with a picture of their flag that says "Love it or leave it".

    If People really think they'd be better off elsewhere then they are more than welcome to fuck off as far as I'm concerned. Better that than them constantly whining and moaning about it and doing their best to make the rest of us miserable. You don't like your lot - then change it.

    The UK has many faults, but there's nowhere else I'd currently rather live.

    It's piss easy isn't it. "If you don't like it fuck off" I'm 57 and have a job with a pension that I can't afford to abandon at this stage. I have newly married daughter who one day no doubt will give me grandchildren. It's not as simple as you suggest. What I was suggesting is that if I knew then what I know now I think it would have been the right decision for me to move abroad. I have advised my daughter to think about it.I wish I had had the knowledge and balls to do it. But thanks for your usual aggressive response.
    You seem to have taken my comments personally, which was not how they were intended - I wasn't thinking specifically of you when I wrote them, just more generically.

    Of course it's probably not that easy for some - but largely that is again through personal choice. If things were really that bad here for you then you could have always jacked in your job and move somewhere else to try and start again, but you have chosen not to. Be that because of family or whatever, but you've obviously deciuded that - for all it's ills - this country is the place you wanted to be. Presumably because the alternatives did not stack up.

    I'm not saying you're right or wrong to have made the choices you've made - I would have no idea so wouldn't dream of passing judgement - but you must have had choices, even if they weren't the most attractive.
  • Canada would be my preference.

    Unfortunately they've closed the door with a foot firmly against it.
    Try the online application form.
  • Canada would be my preference.

    Unfortunately they've closed the door with a foot firmly against it.
    Try the online application form.
    Like in many countries it depends on your job.

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