positive discrimination.
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I'm going for a 14:17 finish for this.0
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Its an absolute joke. Makes you wonder if they are already doing it in some way.
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They are. The met regularly hold open days for women to apply for specialist posts such as fire arms and dog handling.0
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Anyone wanna buy some popcorn?0
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Madness
The job is open to anyone who wants to apply regardless of background and they all get tested the same way, so if they dont apply that would suggest they are not wanting a role with the police, if they fail then that means they are not good enough.
End off
My place done it and got caught and got into trouble, backfired as the role was aimed at females, they were not interested took the add to there husbands who applied instead fo them0 -
Where is this reported ? might be worth getting the whole story before anyone flies off the handle.0
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Daily mail today.0
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It was on BBC News last night0
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/02/met-police-law-positive-discrimination
http://www.itv.com/news/london/update/2013-06-03/the-mets-response-to-consideration-of-positive-discrimination/
http://www.london24.com/news/crime/met_may_use_positive_discrimination_in_next_recruitment_drive_1_2220935
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22754227
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Yep see it on BBC news last night0
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Just going to run this by the society of white lawyers.0
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LOL, can you imagine if we had this, such a racist group would be banned, the lefties would call it BNP or EDL in suitsJT said:Just going to run this by the society of white lawyers.
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Don't know if this initiative will work but I do know that unless a police force generally reflects the population it polices there is a greater possibility of tensions that might lead to civil problems.
And I don't think any of us want that do we?0 -
id be happier ifthe £100million spent a year on translation services was spent of actual FRONT line services.
Dont give a rats arse what skin pigment a coppers skin is as long as he/she responds when im in the shit and can actually do the job.
So if your in a "white area" do you only get "white" O Bill ????0 -
I'm a straight, white, British male. I've never suffered any sort of discrimination in my life, I've never felt any barriers to me doing what I want to do other than my own intellect and hard work. I think it's very difficult for anyone who is in my demographic to understand the impact of prejudice and discrimination (whether real or perceived). It's not as easy as saying:
If it was, why are only 10% of cops in London ethnic minorities ? Are such a huge swathe of society (40% in one of the articles quoted) completely dis-interested or too thick to make the grade ?leftbehind said:Madness
The job is open to anyone who wants to apply regardless of background and they all get tested the same way, so if they dont apply that would suggest they are not wanting a role with the police, if they fail then that means they are not good enough.
End off
I'm not sure if this is the answer to the problem, probably not, but clearly something needs to be done as London becomes a more diverse city.0 -
They also have ethnic recruitment dates that concentrate on bringing in minorities. I know this as I was told that was why my application was rejected.smudge7946 said:They are. The met regularly hold open days for women to apply for specialist posts such as fire arms and dog handling.
It makes sense to both increase the amount of females and ethnic minorities into the police imo though, they can better connect in a short time with their own sex or race without being able to label the officer as discriminatory.0 -
would assume it'd be mixed partnerships...Goonerhater said:id be happier ifthe £100million spent a year on translation services was spent of actual FRONT line services.
Dont give a rats arse what skin pigment a coppers skin is as long as he/she responds when im in the shit and can actually do the job.
So if your in a "white area" do you only get "white" O Bill ????
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Ethnic minority, 10% is quite a decent sized "minority" if you ask mese9addick said:I'm a straight, white, British male. I've never suffered any sort of discrimination in my life, I've never felt any barriers to me doing what I want to do other than my own intellect and hard work. I think it's very difficult for anyone who is in my demographic to understand the impact of prejudice and discrimination (whether real or perceived). It's not as easy as saying:
If it was, why are only 10% of cops in London ethnic minorities ? Are such a huge swathe of society (40% in one of the articles quoted) completely dis-interested or too thick to make the grade ?leftbehind said:Madness
The job is open to anyone who wants to apply regardless of background and they all get tested the same way, so if they dont apply that would suggest they are not wanting a role with the police, if they fail then that means they are not good enough.
End off
I'm not sure if this is the answer to the problem, probably not, but clearly something needs to be done as London becomes a more diverse city.0 -
Agree with this post from start to finish - it's a complex problem that needs bold moves to solve. Ultimately it would be preferable for people to apply for the Met etc. in the same race/gender/sexual orientation etc. proportions as live in the area - but that doesn't happen for a number of reasons.se9addick said:I'm a straight, white, British male. I've never suffered any sort of discrimination in my life, I've never felt any barriers to me doing what I want to do other than my own intellect and hard work. I think it's very difficult for anyone who is in my demographic to understand the impact of prejudice and discrimination (whether real or perceived). It's not as easy as saying:
If it was, why are only 10% of cops in London ethnic minorities ? Are such a huge swathe of society (40% in one of the articles quoted) completely dis-interested or too thick to make the grade ?leftbehind said:Madness
The job is open to anyone who wants to apply regardless of background and they all get tested the same way, so if they dont apply that would suggest they are not wanting a role with the police, if they fail then that means they are not good enough.
End off
I'm not sure if this is the answer to the problem, probably not, but clearly something needs to be done as London becomes a more diverse city.
To just let that microcosym position 'evolve' will take too long - there needs to be some sort of catalyst. Or you could just take the view that it's OK for just 10% of cops to be from ethnic minorities - clearly the Met themselves don't agree with that view.
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Here's the UK demographics based on the 2001 census:
Ethnic group Population % of total
White British 50,366,497 85.67%
White (other) 3,096,169 5.27%
Indian 1,053,411 1.8%
Pakistani 977,285 1.6%
White Irish 691,232 1.2%
Mixed race 677,117 1.2%
Black Caribbean 565,876 1.0%
Black African 485,277 0.8%
Bangladeshi 283,063 0.5%
Other Asian (non-Chinese) 247,644 0.4%
Chinese 247,403 0.4%
Other 230,615 0.4%
Black (others) 97,585 0.2%
Obviously this vastly changes per location, cities in particular have very different demographics, according to the Office for National Statistics, based on the 2011 Census estimates, 59.8 per cent of the 8,173,941 inhabitants of London were White, with 44.9 per cent White British, 2.2 per cent White Irish, 0.1 per cent gypsy/Irish traveller and 12.1 per cent classified as Other White.
20.9 per cent of Londoners are of Asian and mixed-Asian descent. 19.7 per cent of Londoners are of full Asian descent, with those of mixed-Asian heritage comprising 1.2 of the population. Indians account for 6.6 per cent of the population, followed by Pakistanis and Bangladeshis at 2.7 per cent each. Chinese peoples account for 1.5 per cent of the population, with Arabs comprising 1.3 per cent. A further 4.9 per cent of Londoners are classified as "Other Asian".
15.6 per cent of London's population are of Black and mixed-Black descent. 13.3 per cent of Londoners are of full Black descent, with those of mixed-Black heritage comprising 2.3 per cent of the population. Black Africans account for 7.0 per cent of London's population, with 4.2 per cent as Black Caribbean and 2.1 per cent as "Other Black".
5.0 per cent of Londoners are of mixed race.
You can see from the above where the 40% figure comes from with 59.8% being white, meaning all various minorities total 40.2%.0 -
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Should also say, there's no such thing as positive discrimination, just discrimination. It's always positive for those on the good side of it and bad for those on the other side. Even if the used with the best possible motives discrimination will always have negative consequences, even if you just start with the resentment these policies create.0
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thisrandy andy said:Should also say, there's no such thing as positive discrimination, just discrimination. It's always positive for those on the good side of it and bad for those on the other side. Even if the used with the best possible motives discrimination will always have negative consequences, even if you just start with the resentment these policies create.
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Honkeyse9addick said:I'm a straight, white, British male. I've never suffered any sort of discrimination in my life, I've never felt any barriers to me doing what I want to do other than my own intellect and hard work. I think it's very difficult for anyone who is in my demographic to understand the impact of prejudice and discrimination (whether real or perceived). It's not as easy as saying:
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When I joined the fire service there were physical conditions on joining, both in build and strength, plus an upper age limit. They all disappeared about a decade ago, far too discriminatory.0
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I can't help but feel the Met are missing the point here.
In an ideal world, with no discrimination, surely the demographic make-up of the police would broadly reflect that of the general population, as would the demographic make-up of those who apply to join, and the demographic make-up of those recruited.
The BBC story says that currently 17% of new recruits come from ethnic minority backgrounds, compared with much higher ethnic minority figures in the population at large. Surely the Met should be looking at the existing reasons for this, before advocating so-called 'positive' discrimination. (Incidentally this is a term which I hate - as randy andy said there is no such thing as 'positive' discrimination).
There can only be two possible reasons for this:
1. The demographics of applicants reflect the general population, but for some reason those from certain ethnic groups are less likely to be selected. This suggests some sort of bias within the selection process, which needs to be looked at by the Met.
2. The demographics of applicants does NOT reflect the general population, suggesting that certain ethnic groups are less likely to apply to join the Met than others. Again, I would suggest that the Met should be looking into the reasons for this.
Either way, I think the problem lies closer to home. Positive discrimination is not the answer - this will just breed resentment both within and outside the police.0 -
Are we discussing the same Met who were once labelled "institutionally racist"? And people think encouraging applications from ethnic minorities is a bad thing...
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Many governmental bodies and states in USA have tried this, I don't know what is the current situation.
Years ago in Florida it was tried with one city's fire fighters. One 'caucasian' applicant insisted that he was of African extraction. 'No you're not' said the authorities, 'prove it' said the applicant. The case went high up the US/State appeals and legal procedures, eventually the attempt at positive discrimination was thrown out by the judges.
There is no known test to genetically prove 100% what is an individual's racial make up. You can get close but never 100%. if I had one African ancestor 1000 years ago, would that qualify me as a minority ?, would that genetic inheritance show up in a test ?
The tests and legislation would have to get very close to apartheid South African theory to have any affect.
In several US states, native Americans are allowed to open gambling establishments in reservation areas whereas gambling is illegal in the rest of the state.
You would not believe the number of entrepreneurs who suddenly discovered a Pawnee, Apache or Navajo ancestor way, way, way back when.0 -
Is this going to be like the last recruitment drive for ethnic minorities, or the one before, or the one before that, or the one before that... Ad Nauseum.0
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I think encouraging applications from ethnic minorities is a good thing. Positive discrimination in the selection process is what's bad.BlackForestReds said:Are we discussing the same Met who were once labelled "institutionally racist"? And people think encouraging applications from ethnic minorities is a bad thing...
Put it another way - someone in the Met clearly has a target to increase the level of ethnic minorities within the force. It appears that they are failing to do this by playing fairly (possibly for the reason you have suggested), so effectively want to cheat by weighting the selection process.0
