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Imagine if this happened to Charlton

This would come as much of a shock to supporters as leaving The Valley. Duchatelet suddenly announces that the Championship is too expensive and decides to play next season in League Two.

This is what's happening in France. The club I've been going to watch for the last few years (Le Poiré sur Vie) have announced this week-end that they will give up their place in 'Le National' (Division 3) and instead will be entering CFA2 (Division 5).

And this is not the first time this has happened. Another club 'Carquefou', a suburb of Nantes, did the same last year.

One of the reasons given is the recent change of the promotion and relegation in the French leagues which was changed a few weeks ago to only 2 teams. I nearly started a thread on this last week but decided that few people would care about what's happening inn France. However upon reading today's paper I start to wonder if this could happen in England. We all know that clubs lose a lot of money in The Championship. Didn't Blackpool really get relegated on purpose? I could try to translate the whole of the newspaper reports but in summary it's a decision based on running costs. Also the gap between the teams and those relegated from Ligue 2: 180,000 euros for those already in the league, and 2 million for those relegated. It's quite sad because this club has been promoted from the regional leagues to the 3rd Division over he past 15 years.

One of the club's 'presidents' had this to say:

'Could we play in Division 3 with greater aims? To invest more money in an effort to get promotion? Two years ago when we were close to promotion (they were about 8 points clear in 3rd place) we calculated the costs. Without doubt we missed our opportunity at that time. Since then it seems that the door to promotion has been closing. The reform of the league with two going up instead of three is only going to accentuate the problem. Should we then continue as we are with no other objective than staying up, (as we did) with one game to go in 2014, and on the final match, in 2015?'

In other words: it's not worth shelling out money just to fight relegation battles, we may as well concede defeat, and play in the fifth division where we are safe from financial ruin. Is this where football is heading, or is it just a French defeatist attitude?

Comments

  • For anyone who can understand a bit of French.
  • So they won't aim for promotion back up? They're happy in the 5th tier? Really depressing
  • I just dont get this. Surely the income is greater in the higher league. The out goings are then up to the club? I tgink cafc are 1.5m better off in the champ than we were in l1.
  • Fiiish said:

    I actually like this idea. Very sensible. What a brilliant country France is.

    main reason to leave the EU......the French are in it.
  • So they won't aim for promotion back up? They're happy in the 5th tier? Really depressing

    Well, yes, it is a little. I miss going to Charlton every week (or at least when I want to!). So I compensate with the occasional visit home (to England) and the occasional match at what I consider a decent level not too far from home here. I don't want to drive up to Nantes, but Poiré sur Vie in the 3rd Division, just a 25 minute drive away is perfect for me. Recently they've been getting gates of 4000 in a nice tight ground. I've got two young boys who I'd like to take with me as they get a bit older.

    But now I ask myself 'what's the point'? Will they even try to go up to the 4th Division? Recently two other clubs in the region (both about 45 minutes drive away have gone up to the 3rd Division. Should I go there instead or will they just come to the same conclusion?

    What with the situation with Luzenec who were refused entry to Ligue 1 last year after winning promotion and subsequently sent down to the 5th or 6th Division, I wonder why any French football fans will continue to go. I'd like to talk to them about it but I don't know anyone who goes. I guess I'll just have to go to another match next season and talk to stangers. At least I'll know that they are the hard core fans!

    Lastly I'd just like to say that I'm surprised how few people have commented on this thread. I think it's very important. I don't expect anyone to give two hoots about French football or my pleasure (or not) in watching it, but the hypothetical question I asked in the thread title is worth discussing. What would you do if this started happening in England? Do you think it possible in England? Has it kind of happened already in a more surreptitious manner at Blackpool?
  • Not quite the same, but Canvey Island lost their financier and had to drop down two divisions about 4 years ago.
  • Very interesting, Jimmy. And it's not as far fetched as people might imagine, to think it could happen in England. The big BDO survey that was done a couple of years ago showed that the Championship was the most lethal of the four divisions for making losses.That's because of the severe imbalances created by the parachute money , and the ridiculous salaries being paid because so many are players still on their Premiership contracts. This was the opinion of the CFO's of the clubs, who were all canvassed for their opinions. So sooner or later some "rational" businessman is going to come to that conclusion.

    The realisation that the losses were to continue after we got back up from the Third Division are said to be the main reason why Kevin Cash pulled his money.

    I wouldn't like to assume that this is what happened at Blackpool, because Oyston is clearly a nutter, but I certainly think you've made the case for it to be considered.

    makes me shiver...
  • I just dont get this. Surely the income is greater in the higher league. The out goings are then up to the club? I tgink cafc are 1.5m better off in the champ than we were in l1.

    I've been reading their facebook page -no fans forum seems to exist. It seems to me that they are going to concentrate on their 'école de foot.' So they are going to produce young players to sell onto other clubs because obviously they don't want to go up themselves. This would be the only way to make money.

    If it's just this one club that do it then you'd have to say 'well, that's their decision - it seems a bit daft but that up to them.' However if other clubs start to drop out of Division 3 (and two have now taken this decision) then it would be a general problem (although the fans of the club to my amazement don't seem to see this as a problem).

    Don't forget that although you may say that this is in France and so it doesn't affect Charlton just bear in mind that we have a Belgian owner, and that his intentions are not transparent. This is why I think it is relevant to Charlton. Why is he so intent on getting top Academy status? Would he be happy just to while away our time in The Championship without getting involved with the financial risk of The Premiership?
  • Frenchmen giving up and retreating (to division 5) - whod've thought it ?
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  • A fans forum does exist and I've just joined it starting a new discussion. I don't know if people are going to like my questions but even if they all disagree with me I just want to try and understand the mindset. It's just so incomprehensible.
  • Very interesting, Jimmy. And it's not as far fetched as people might imagine, to think it could happen in England. The big BDO survey that was done a couple of years ago showed that the Championship was the most lethal of the four divisions for making losses.That's because of the severe imbalances created by the parachute money , and the ridiculous salaries being paid because so many are players still on their Premiership contracts. This was the opinion of the CFO's of the clubs, who were all canvassed for their opinions. So sooner or later some "rational" businessman is going to come to that conclusion.

    The realisation that the losses were to continue after we got back up from the Third Division are said to be the main reason why Kevin Cash pulled his money.

    I wouldn't like to assume that this is what happened at Blackpool, because Oyston is clearly a nutter, but I certainly think you've made the case for it to be considered.

    makes me shiver...

    Thank you. Someone who gets what I've driving at. Whether I go again to Poiré sur Vie or go to see another team here is irrelevant. It's that the owners of this club have openly stated that as their reasons and that an owner of an English club wouldn't dare admit it.
  • Although I understand their logic, does that mean that if they win their division, or finish second, they would decline the promotion?

    Does that mean that they can on offer players contracts with promotion bonuses?

    Also, does the relegation mean they have to release all their players? If not, presumably they have to keep paying them the same money - and might have to do so anyway if they can't get the same deal elsewhere.

    If does strike me as being a lot more complicated than it would seem at first.
  • edited June 2015
    Actually, it does go on here, but at a lower level. Did'nt this years FA Trophy winners, North Ferriby, ask to be demoted for financial reasons. I don't know about Blackpool, I thought that was just basic mismanagement. In the town where I live in Spain, Calella, the football team disappeared at the end of last season and now it just exists as youth teams. They once got into the Copa Del Rey and met Athletic Bilbao back in the eighties (I know people who remember it) but they overspent in the last seasons wjile ditching their youth players. When they ran out of money and begged the youth players to come back and join the first team, they were told where they could stick it. So now my local team here is the youths.
    To come back to the point, I would loathe Charlton to do it. The logical approach (for me) is to sell the expensive players, bring on the youngsters, and the club will naturally settle to it's new level. Why invite a doublé relegation?
  • Karl Oyston: Blackpool chairman banned and fined over texts.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/33076683
  • Actually, it does go on here, but at a lower level. Did'nt this years FA Trophy winners, North Ferriby, ask to be demoted for financial reasons. I don't know about Blackpool, I thought that was just basic mismanagement. In the town where I live in Spain, Calella, the football team disappeared at the end of last season and now it just exists as youth teams. They once got into the Copa Del Rey and met Athletic Bilbao back in the eighties (I know people who remember it) but they overspent in the last seasons wjile ditching their youth players. When they ran out of money and begged the youth players to come back and join the first team, they were told where they could stick it. So now my local team here is the youths.
    To come back to the point, I would loathe Charlton to do it. The logical approach (for me) is to sell the expensive players, bring on the youngsters, and the club will naturally settle to it's new level. Why invite a doublé relegation?

    Ferriby's owners who are looking to sell were reported to be pulling everything out of the club, meaning that they would have no money to sign players on for the following season and have to drop to an amateur level.

    This meant that players, including FA Trophy 90th minute equalising hero Ryan Kendall said their farewells on Twitter and announced their intentions to look for clubs elsewhere.

    However it turns out that while the club are up for sale the owners aren't taking everything out of the club, but won't be investing further. Hopefully a backer can be found soon.
  • Karl Oyston: Blackpool chairman banned and fined over texts.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/33076683

    What exactly is classed as "football activity"? Obviously he can't attend any games, but there aren't any in the next 6 weeks anyway. Does this effectively mean that Blackpool are under a transfer embargo, as Oyston can't sign the paperwork and authorise whatever cheques/payments need to be made in order to sign a player?

    Confusing - can't work out whether it's an extremely stern punishment or a completely ineffective, empty gesture? I suspect the latter.
  • Although I understand their logic, does that mean that if they win their division, or finish second, they would decline the promotion?

    Does that mean that they can on offer players contracts with promotion bonuses?

    Also, does the relegation mean they have to release all their players? If not, presumably they have to keep paying them the same money - and might have to do so anyway if they can't get the same deal elsewhere.

    If does strike me as being a lot more complicated than it would seem at first.

    To answer this question as far as I know: The old 1st team players were released but some of them had been offered a one year contract extension if they stayed up. A few of these players have been arguing that they did their job and kept the team up and that it's nothing to do with them if the club subsequently chose to 'relegate themselves.' They are taking the club to court.

    I'm not going anymore. There are two other clubs in the same league which aren't much further away but I've lost the will to go to anymore games in France. I normally find the pace of the games to be tedious and the atmosphere pretty flat but all this is the final nail in the coffin as far as I'm concerned.
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