PROTEST - 2.30pm - WEST STAND CAR PARK - 12/12/2015
Comments
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Well if I wasn't on the A2 at the time I would have been part of the 2%, for example.clive said:
What type of protest would you attend ?rikofold said:
I'll be there with my 'Belgian Women out' banner. ;-)Addickted2TheReds said:Looks like there will be another protest on Saturday - it's starting to do the rounds on Twitter...
I'm all for it, but would urge fans to stay away from songs pertaining to gender and Belgium. They do us no favours and just give the club ammo.
Who'll be going?
I'm still not going to attend this type of protest for the same reasons as before, but I urge the same thing Joe - stick to the message and avoid giving them any excuse to dismiss it.
It would probably help if someone was able to organise it a bit.
The issue I have with this one is that it lacks a bit of cohesion - there are no clear objectives to the protest, it's not part of the SIO campaign and as no-one's actually organising it there's no single message to stick to. Is it Roland Out, is it Roland Change, is it just we're unhappy, or is it a free for all on Belgians and women? And the problem is, the lack of organisation means that the last bit may come to the fore. I don't want to be represented by that.2 -
It would be great if we can build on the Wednesday protest, increased numbers and protesting at every home game.rikofold said:
Well if I wasn't on the A2 at the time I would have been part of the 2%, for example.clive said:
What type of protest would you attend ?rikofold said:
I'll be there with my 'Belgian Women out' banner. ;-)Addickted2TheReds said:Looks like there will be another protest on Saturday - it's starting to do the rounds on Twitter...
I'm all for it, but would urge fans to stay away from songs pertaining to gender and Belgium. They do us no favours and just give the club ammo.
Who'll be going?
I'm still not going to attend this type of protest for the same reasons as before, but I urge the same thing Joe - stick to the message and avoid giving them any excuse to dismiss it.
It would probably help if someone was able to organise it a bit.
The issue I have with this one is that it lacks a bit of cohesion - there are no clear objectives to the protest, it's not part of the SIO campaign and as no-one's actually organising it there's no single message to stick to. Is it Roland Out, is it Roland Change, is it just we're unhappy, or is it a free for all on Belgians and women? And the problem is, the lack of organisation means that the last bit may come to the fore. I don't want to be represented by that.
Outside the main entrance as a definite, and I reckon the Covered End would soon carry this on once we went behind, this happens quite a bit so we would not have to wait too long.0 -
I find that a bit of a weak argument, although you are perfectly entitled to it. The last protest (I was a silent observer) provoked an unwarranted attack by KM and from it evolved the 2% protest. It is possible that this type of protest may get a little out of hand but only a little at most. KM and RD have to realise that we mean business and the longer we are ignored the more uncomfortable it will get for them. Because the West Stand protest happens right in front of where KM is wining and dining visiting dignitaries she will naturally feel uncomfortable. Well, good!rikofold said:
Well if I wasn't on the A2 at the time I would have been part of the 2%, for example.clive said:
What type of protest would you attend ?rikofold said:
I'll be there with my 'Belgian Women out' banner. ;-)Addickted2TheReds said:Looks like there will be another protest on Saturday - it's starting to do the rounds on Twitter...
I'm all for it, but would urge fans to stay away from songs pertaining to gender and Belgium. They do us no favours and just give the club ammo.
Who'll be going?
I'm still not going to attend this type of protest for the same reasons as before, but I urge the same thing Joe - stick to the message and avoid giving them any excuse to dismiss it.
It would probably help if someone was able to organise it a bit.
The issue I have with this one is that it lacks a bit of cohesion - there are no clear objectives to the protest, it's not part of the SIO campaign and as no-one's actually organising it there's no single message to stick to. Is it Roland Out, is it Roland Change, is it just we're unhappy, or is it a free for all on Belgians and women? And the problem is, the lack of organisation means that the last bit may come to the fore. I don't want to be represented by that.4 -
I think you're missing the point. I'm not saying a West Stand protest is unsupportable per se, but I can't support it at present for many reasons, among which are that it has no obvious objective.
The 2% protest had a clear objective and was organised. It meant a simple single message got across and was as well covered in the media as could be expected. And we got the 2% via an political error by KM, not because it was a clear objective of the protest itself.0 -
I think the objective of the protest is quite simple. Just to demonstrate that ordinary fans are totally unhappy with the way things are being run at the club. People have different ideas of what should be done and this is an opportunity for everyone. The B&W campaign actually suffers from being prescriptive in that many do not agree with it but still want to protest.
The most ridiculous protest is not attending. For ST holders they already have our money. Further loss of ticket sales and income could well lead to a further cut in the player budget for the second half of the season, increasing the risk of relegation and affecting the standard of football.
Finally it hardly supports the team who desperately need us now5 -
The team will have to get used to it as I think we will have a lot of people not going next season.redman said:I think the objective of the protest is quite simple. Just to demonstrate that ordinary fans are totally unhappy with the way things are being run at the club. People have different ideas of what should be done and this is an opportunity for everyone. The B&W campaign actually suffers from being prescriptive in that many do not agree with it but still want to protest.
The most ridiculous protest is not attending. For ST holders they already have our money. Further loss of ticket sales and income could well lead to a further cut in the player budget for the second half of the season, increasing the risk of relegation and affecting the standard of football.
Finally it hardly supports the team who desperately need us now0 -
This is your objective. Others are chanting Roland Out, others are slagging KM personally, others want Roland to stay and change. It's fine if it's just an opportunity to vent, but that's not a protest I feel the need to support - I don't think everyone sees it the same way, and people vent in ways I could never support.redman said:I think the objective of the protest is quite simple. Just to demonstrate that ordinary fans are totally unhappy with the way things are being run at the club. People have different ideas of what should be done and this is an opportunity for everyone. The B&W campaign actually suffers from being prescriptive in that many do not agree with it but still want to protest.
The most ridiculous protest is not attending. For ST holders they already have our money. Further loss of ticket sales and income could well lead to a further cut in the player budget for the second half of the season, increasing the risk of relegation and affecting the standard of football.
Finally it hardly supports the team who desperately need us now2 -
Just stating unhappiness, and aiming to embarrass KM while she's schmoozing people, sounds like a perfectly decent objective to me. Just like sending the Christmas cards, dissent can be expressed in several different ways while others try to fathom out a long-term objective.18
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Never knew there were so many self-enforced rules and regs around showing your unhappy. Can't do this, can't do that. Car park protests may cross the line as you are not allowed to react if goaded, 2% protests and Christmas Cards too weak. Not in my name etc
All very Charlton and the ironic aspect is the targets of that disattisfaction would not give a moments thought for you or I.38 -
People can show they're unhappy AFKA, of course. For me I prefer to be part of something that has a constructive aim to it. I don't think the club are in any doubt how unhappy we are.5
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Sad to say, I'm not doing the 100mile return trip for these management losers. I get more pleasure from watching my 14yr old son's team play, then off for a lovely lunch. Saturday 's will never be the same but my family have voted with their feet. Target 5000 nicely on track. RIP CAFC.5
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So what aim does the Trust have that is constructive for Charlton rather than Duchatalet and Miere? Nice cosy dialogue? The Trust should be leading the physical protest.rikofold said:People can show they're unhappy AFKA, of course. For me I prefer to be part of something that has a constructive aim to it. I don't think the club are in any doubt how unhappy we are.
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Well I wasn't speaking for the Trust, but frankly the Trust has managed to get the dialogue that was the mandate of the public meeting, the October survey and the Trust AGM. It is a bit incongruous to then be leading "physical protests" as well (notwithstanding that we'd then be criticised for needing to be leading everything).kentred2 said:
So what aim does the Trust have that is constructive for Charlton rather than Duchatalet and Miere? Nice cosy dialogue? The Trust should be leading the physical protest.rikofold said:People can show they're unhappy AFKA, of course. For me I prefer to be part of something that has a constructive aim to it. I don't think the club are in any doubt how unhappy we are.
More to the point, why do you caricature dialogue as 'nice cosy'? Why on earth would it preclude addressing the issues that fans are protesting about?1 -
The question is how have the Trust managed to get that "dialogue"?rikofold said:
Well I wasn't speaking for the Trust, but frankly the Trust has managed to get the dialogue that was the mandate of the public meeting, the October survey and the Trust AGM. It is a bit incongruous to then be leading "physical protests" as well (notwithstanding that we'd then be criticised for needing to be leading everything).kentred2 said:
So what aim does the Trust have that is constructive for Charlton rather than Duchatalet and Miere? Nice cosy dialogue? The Trust should be leading the physical protest.rikofold said:People can show they're unhappy AFKA, of course. For me I prefer to be part of something that has a constructive aim to it. I don't think the club are in any doubt how unhappy we are.
More to the point, why do you caricature dialogue as 'nice cosy'? Why on earth would it preclude addressing the issues that fans are protesting about?
Is it through their own efforts or off the back of the car park protests and Spell It Our?8 -
Because it appears that the Trust's aim is understanding and helping rather than any change that will put football success as the strategy of the clubrikofold said:
Well I wasn't speaking for the Trust, but frankly the Trust has managed to get the dialogue that was the mandate of the public meeting, the October survey and the Trust AGM. It is a bit incongruous to then be leading "physical protests" as well (notwithstanding that we'd then be criticised for needing to be leading everything).kentred2 said:
So what aim does the Trust have that is constructive for Charlton rather than Duchatalet and Miere? Nice cosy dialogue? The Trust should be leading the physical protest.rikofold said:People can show they're unhappy AFKA, of course. For me I prefer to be part of something that has a constructive aim to it. I don't think the club are in any doubt how unhappy we are.
More to the point, why do you caricature dialogue as 'nice cosy'? Why on earth would it preclude addressing the issues that fans are protesting about?
It could easily be argued too of course that the meeting was not due to the work of the Trust but the outcome of the Sheff Wed protest.
Boycot towards target 5000 and, ever increasing levels of vocal and physical protest are what is working I reckon.
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Agree with this, InspectorSands, sir.InspectorSands said:Just stating unhappiness, and aiming to embarrass KM while she's schmoozing people, sounds like a perfectly decent objective to me. Just like sending the Christmas cards, dissent can be expressed in several different ways while others try to fathom out a long-term objective.
Until such time that another organised protest around a specific message comes together ( as per the successful 2% campaign- thanks, to Joe) I suggest the continued wearing of black & white ( esp scarves) , full support of the team on the pitch, Xmas cards to RD & KM with sincere reasons for your disquiet/boycott etc & a gathering outside Main Reception on Saturday for those who wish to do so with continuous chants of "We want our Charlton Back" ad infinitum.
Together, these should serve to remind the current regime that "we" won't go away & are a growing number of supporters determined to be heard , especially where the volume of the chanting might drown out the girlish giggles of our CEO in her Boardroom schmoozing on matchdays.
Nothing here could be construed as OTT, beyond the pale or even insulting.
But it WILL become akin to a nagging toothache if we are consistent in protesting in this manner.
And eventually, more & more fans might gravitate towards "our side" of the argument as the above becomes a regular not intermittent part of supporting at home.
Just my opinion of course.
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I'm not going to get involved in reasoning why it happened, and frankly I'm not sure it matters one bit. A man convinced against his will is of the same mind even still, after all.
Rather than head into the type of cyclical argument that some seem to get off on, I'll simply say that it's a good thing in my view that CASTrust is now formally talking with the club and am incredulous that anyone thinks anything other than the club's success is at the forefront of our objectives. You'd surely only take that position if you had a prejudicial view of the Trust.1 -
When are your next discussions with the club planned?1
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Nice post Jean.
As I said earlier I won't be at the Leeds game due to being away so can't organise anything major.
I suppose for now I am seeing if Target 20k is going to mean something.
If it turns into a dressed up fans forum, which I fear it will, where issues not really pertaining to the actual success of the football club are discussed then perhaps we need to step it up a gear. It would be a huge own goal from KM to turn this into more lip service as she has had a chance here to make some real inroads into the appeasement of fans.
We shall see but for now I am content with the continued support of wearing black and white and the Christmas card idea and also supportive of protests outside the west stand.
Rest assured I will not let this go away though. In the new year after things are a little clearer we can take stock and see where we stand. If more dramatic action is needed I will be the first to put my hand up to help pull everything together.3 - Sponsored links:
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If there is a West Stand car park protest then it will mean three successive home games of overt protest. I don't know how it might work for Tuesday, but there is something to be said for tenacity and perseverance. Sometimes things can be unspectacular, but if it doesn't go away it might get through eventually.8
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Has the trust found Meire to be straightforward and reliable in its dealing with her? Or has she said one thing and then done another?rikofold said:I'm not going to get involved in reasoning why it happened, and frankly I'm not sure it matters one bit. A man convinced against his will is of the same mind even still, after all.
Rather than head into the type of cyclical argument that some seem to get off on, I'll simply say that it's a good thing in my view that CASTrust is now formally talking with the club and am incredulous that anyone thinks anything other than the club's success is at the forefront of our objectives. You'd surely only take that position if you had a prejudicial view of the Trust.7 -
I know what you're getting at but I'm not getting drawn in. I'll simply say that at the outset of any relationship there are some things to work through.Airman Brown said:
Has the trust found Meire to be straightforward and reliable in its dealing with her? Or has she said one thing and then done another?rikofold said:I'm not going to get involved in reasoning why it happened, and frankly I'm not sure it matters one bit. A man convinced against his will is of the same mind even still, after all.
Rather than head into the type of cyclical argument that some seem to get off on, I'll simply say that it's a good thing in my view that CASTrust is now formally talking with the club and am incredulous that anyone thinks anything other than the club's success is at the forefront of our objectives. You'd surely only take that position if you had a prejudicial view of the Trust.10 -
Ever thought of a career in politics Rikofold.rikofold said:
I know what you're getting at but I'm not getting drawn in. I'll simply say that at the outset of any relationship there are some things to work through.Airman Brown said:
Has the trust found Meire to be straightforward and reliable in its dealing with her? Or has she said one thing and then done another?rikofold said:I'm not going to get involved in reasoning why it happened, and frankly I'm not sure it matters one bit. A man convinced against his will is of the same mind even still, after all.
Rather than head into the type of cyclical argument that some seem to get off on, I'll simply say that it's a good thing in my view that CASTrust is now formally talking with the club and am incredulous that anyone thinks anything other than the club's success is at the forefront of our objectives. You'd surely only take that position if you had a prejudicial view of the Trust.
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In regards to having some semblance of organisation for this protest in terms of acceptable chants, banner, scarves, aims etc. some may laugh this off, but why not create a Facebook event and get it posted around? As long as aims and what is acceptable are clearly stated and make sure that people know when reading that violence/vandalism/sexism/offensive chants won't be tolerated, will it be OK? Maybe put it under the Black and White social media?
Just a suggestion from reading and watching the streams of the protest (I'm working abroad at the moment) where it seemed somewhat uncoordinated in terms of getting chants going and visual signs of protest.1 -
How do we show we're unhappy? We're not allowed to attend the meetings as only a "chosen few" are selected, and the last meeting was hardly angry or hostile. No wonder we can't make our voices heard when we still have fans who can't see there is a problem. As for the Trust, just what are they doing while supposedly representing the fans? You've been more concerned about the bloody Olympic stadium than what's been happening in SE7, and when my renewal is due it won't be getting renewed.rikofold said:People can show they're unhappy AFKA, of course. For me I prefer to be part of something that has a constructive aim to it. I don't think the club are in any doubt how unhappy we are.
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Last saturday home game of 2015 to make a stand against the current regime. Nothing's changed as far as I'm concerned. All fluff and nonsense from the CEO.
2:30, West Stand Car Park. Same result as the Wednesday game on and off the pitch please.5 -
Meanwhile, while you and the Trust are sucking up to Meire, the fans you are supposed to be representing are being kept in the dark.rikofold said:
I know what you're getting at but I'm not getting drawn in. I'll simply say that at the outset of any relationship there are some things to work through.Airman Brown said:
Has the trust found Meire to be straightforward and reliable in its dealing with her? Or has she said one thing and then done another?rikofold said:I'm not going to get involved in reasoning why it happened, and frankly I'm not sure it matters one bit. A man convinced against his will is of the same mind even still, after all.
Rather than head into the type of cyclical argument that some seem to get off on, I'll simply say that it's a good thing in my view that CASTrust is now formally talking with the club and am incredulous that anyone thinks anything other than the club's success is at the forefront of our objectives. You'd surely only take that position if you had a prejudicial view of the Trust.
I don't give a toss about a Target 20,000 - you should be getting Meire to treat the few thousand fans the club still has, with a bit more respect.
I've been attending games for over 40 years, but when Meire & rd have completely broken my spirit I will not be returning again. Try putting stories like that to her at your next cosy chat.19 -
It's obvious why the trust do not want to get involved, but why come on a forum and say you are not getting involved? If you have nowt to say regarding this, say nowtrikofold said:
I'll be there with my 'Belgian Women out' banner. ;-)Addickted2TheReds said:Looks like there will be another protest on Saturday - it's starting to do the rounds on Twitter...
I'm all for it, but would urge fans to stay away from songs pertaining to gender and Belgium. They do us no favours and just give the club ammo.
Who'll be going?
I'm still not going to attend this type of protest for the same reasons as before, but I urge the same thing Joe - stick to the message and avoid giving them any excuse to dismiss it.
It would probably help if someone was able to organise it a bit.4 -
Trouble is mate is whether it is addressing the issues fans are protesting about. We all agree that viewpoints are split, that people want different things, it is completely impossible to get right in an 'approach' sense etc. So I'm not digging out here.rikofold said:
Well I wasn't speaking for the Trust, but frankly the Trust has managed to get the dialogue that was the mandate of the public meeting, the October survey and the Trust AGM. It is a bit incongruous to then be leading "physical protests" as well (notwithstanding that we'd then be criticised for needing to be leading everything).kentred2 said:
So what aim does the Trust have that is constructive for Charlton rather than Duchatalet and Miere? Nice cosy dialogue? The Trust should be leading the physical protest.rikofold said:People can show they're unhappy AFKA, of course. For me I prefer to be part of something that has a constructive aim to it. I don't think the club are in any doubt how unhappy we are.
More to the point, why do you caricature dialogue as 'nice cosy'? Why on earth would it preclude addressing the issues that fans are protesting about?
But from the feedback from Steve's last meeting with KM, RM, the focus was on non-football relating committees; target 20k (which now seems to be a badly designed tick box Fans forum for a different night), a revisit of the Fans Forum, and some maybe potential strategic development group, which isn't really clear what would be diff from the Target 20k group.
All very admirable steps forward and all that malarkey, but nothing that challenges on the strategy and approach that delivers us Fraeye's, LePoint's, Bergditch's etc, or understanding who delivers that. Nor is it addressing the attitude that is displayed out to supporters. Or the feeling that attempts for an approved approach are not genuine.
Like when they announced over six weeks ago now that Fraeye "will take temporary charge of the Addicks’ first-team while the club undertake the process to appoint a Head Coach on a permanent basis." Lot of progress seems to have been made there in the 4 out of 6 defeats we have seen since, hasn't it?
Those are the reasons I suspect those standing in the car park on Saturday. Not for anything that the Trust rightly / wrongly seem to be focussing on.32
