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The General Election - June 8th 2017

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Comments

  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    edited May 2017
    i_b_b_o_r_g said:

    PragueAddick said:

    TellyTubby said:

    Red_in_SE8 said:

    i_b_b_o_r_g said:

    I can see a 'Frexit' vote within 5 years

    In 5 years time it will be clear, even to the 'expert' haters and the poorly educated idiots who voted for it, what a complete disaster Brexit has been for the U.K. so I think a Frexit is highly unlikely.
    I wonder why the original Brexit thread was largely left to a few rabid remainers and was eventually closed down?

    Now let me think.
    Because you treat Brexit not as a democratic issue, like say the NHS, butas a football match where "you" won and "we" lost, get over it, move on, etc.

    It's a matter of perspective I spose, I see as the opposite way round, with a "You voted for it, you get on with it while we highlight every negative news report on it, even though there's no foundation for 99% of em and we'll also call you idiots along the way", to be honest mate
    I actually agree with this analysis.
    It is a fair reflection of my stance, you won you get on with it.
    I don't tend to bring up negative reports about Brexit because there is no need.
    I am content to know that the only way that Brexit means Brexit in terms of controlling the UK borders is to have a hard border in Ireland, which brexiters are unable to acknowledge, and unable to implement.
    I have mentioned before, no deal is better than a bad deal, repeated yesterday by May, is not a negotiating position but a prophesy.
    I would go so far as to say don't waste years negotiating this bad deal, but initiate the no deal at all option from today as it will save time.
  • i_b_b_o_r_g
    i_b_b_o_r_g Posts: 18,948
    Give me a like then Seth
  • McBobbin
    McBobbin Posts: 12,051
    Leuth said:



    Fairly jawdropping stuff
    Hoping that this is just both sides giving it the biggun due to UK and French elections, and wanting a tough opening stance, all smoke and mirrors. I really hope.
  • guinnessaddick
    guinnessaddick Posts: 28,617
    edited May 2017
    i_b_b_o_r_g said:

    Give me a like then Seth

    Seth will look into it.
  • PragueAddick
    PragueAddick Posts: 22,144
    TellyTubby said:

    PragueAddick said:

    EveshamAddick said:

    Fiiish said:

    How do expats vote, exactly? If you have no permanent UK address how do they work out your constituency?

    You can register to vote here if not registered: https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

    Expats can vote if they have been out of the country for less than 15 years. At which point, their right to vote ends.
    EveshamAddick said:

    Fiiish said:

    How do expats vote, exactly? If you have no permanent UK address how do they work out your constituency?

    You can register to vote here if not registered: https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

    Expats can vote if they have been out of the country for less than 15 years. At which point, their right to vote ends.
    Which is disgraceful, and I haven't found another European country where that happens. My mate as a dual citizen has a permanent national vote in both Germany and Sweden
    I don't think it disgraceful at all. Just because other countries have different rules, it doesn't make ours wrong.

    I know that you feel strongly about this but others feel just as strongly that if you don't reside in a country, you relinquish the right to influence it's politics.

    I know that you will come back to me and point out that you contribute financially into the U.K. but I assume that you do this for long term financial security/gain? Forgive me if I have misunderstood as I do not accuse you of anything, just looking to get the facts right.

    Assuming that I am correct then how would you differentiate your financial input to that of a foreign investor in a business or property in the U.K.?

    Clearly you have family and emotional attachment that people born in another country may not but I can't see a practical difference.

    Not looking for a fight, just my view. Happy to debate.
    Hi Tubs :-)

    I'm quite happy to set out personal details of my life and for you to decide

    Financial contribution:

    1. I voluntarily paid NI contributions until I fully qualified for the basic state pension. (so i ought to have a say on state pension issues)

    2. I pay UK tax on rental income from the house I lived in until I moved to Prague. It would not make much difference if I instead paid that tax in the Czech republic. It's up to me. I mainly do it because I can then say I'm a UK taxpayer. Being a UK taxpayer however does not permit me to contribute to a UK SIPP or an ISA. I feel that is stupid, and would like to vote on that!

    Other issues I would like to vote on

    1. My Mum will be 90 in June. Up to now she hasn't had need to call on State assistance, but she is right now. So obviously I have an interest in the current debate on social care, which I would like to vote on

    2. My sister has two "kids" and I have supported/ am supporting both of them to pay for their Uni. Otherwise they might not have gone at all. I think the whole policy is ludicrous and would like to be able to vote on it.

    3. As you know I support a certain football team and as your representative at CAST am activiely involved with others in trying to lobby for reform of football. Since my Mum's MP is one of the few active in this area, I can only address him if I am a voter.

    4. If they had been aware of it, Boris Johnson and the LLDC might have made capital out of the fact that I wasn't a voter - in respect of the Olympic Stadium.

    And finally

    I hope you might concede that I take an active interest in all aspects of British life, perhaps more than the 35% of voters who cannot be arsed to vote. In addition, Teresa May claims to be protecting my interests as a Brit in the EU, yet I cannot vote in judgment of how well she is doing that.

    All in all I think I qualify as an active citizen, and the only difference between me and someone on a minimum wage in Newcastle is that I do not and cannot benefit from NHS or social support.

    Anyway, not to worry, as I'm on the Eltham roll anyway :-)

  • PragueAddick
    PragueAddick Posts: 22,144
    @i_b_b_o_r_g

    When did I call you an idiot?
  • Bournemouth Addick
    Bournemouth Addick Posts: 16,283
    Meanwhile in a galaxy far, far away our PM continues to delude herself and kid the electorate that the EU will dance to the UK's negotiating tune over achieving a, "red, white and blue", "no deal is better than a bad deal" Brexit deal.

    Despite the remaining 27 members agreeing their stance over the way they want to approach the talks in less than 15 minutes.
  • i_b_b_o_r_g
    i_b_b_o_r_g Posts: 18,948
    PragueAddick said:

    @i_b_b_o_r_g

    When did I call you an idiot?

    You never
  • PragueAddick
    PragueAddick Posts: 22,144
    @TellyTubby

    I forgot one more thing. From 96 I started paying into the CZ pension system so for 12 years I was paying into 2 systems. The EU directive ensures that the citizen gets contribs from a second system back as a top up to the first. But when we Brexit that will only be the case if that is specifically negotiated. I calculate that I will have 20k at risk. You cant say i should not have had the right to vote on that, surely?
  • Chizz
    Chizz Posts: 28,331
    Am I the only one who enjoys a momentary chuckle when Theresa May is referred to as Teresa May?

    (For those who don't know who Teresa May Is, Google. nsfw)
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  • Fiiish
    Fiiish Posts: 7,998
    I am under absolutely no illusions at the moment that, given the damning evidence from today back to when she first entered Number 10, May is totally out of her depth and as absolutely no place leading our country, through Brexit or otherwise. Whatever reason that would lead someone to go put a cross next to the Tory on polling day cannot override this fact. Regardless of whether you think Corbyn or anyone else would be unsuitable, we at least know May is the wrong choice from her track record. At least someone else may be able to reverse the damage she has already done to our perillious negotiating position with the EU.
  • i_b_b_o_r_g
    i_b_b_o_r_g Posts: 18,948
    Fiiish said:

    I am under absolutely no illusions at the moment that, given the damning evidence from today back to when she first entered Number 10, May is totally out of her depth and as absolutely no place leading our country, through Brexit or otherwise. Whatever reason that would lead someone to go put a cross next to the Tory on polling day cannot override this fact. Regardless of whether you think Corbyn or anyone else would be unsuitable, we at least know May is the wrong choice from her track record. At least someone else may be able to reverse the damage she has already done to our perillious negotiating position with the EU.

    My birthday
  • CharltonMadrid
    CharltonMadrid Posts: 5,091
    TellyTubby said:

    PragueAddick said:

    EveshamAddick said:

    Fiiish said:

    How do expats vote, exactly? If you have no permanent UK address how do they work out your constituency?

    You can register to vote here if not registered: https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

    Expats can vote if they have been out of the country for less than 15 years. At which point, their right to vote ends.
    EveshamAddick said:

    Fiiish said:

    How do expats vote, exactly? If you have no permanent UK address how do they work out your constituency?

    You can register to vote here if not registered: https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

    Expats can vote if they have been out of the country for less than 15 years. At which point, their right to vote ends.
    Which is disgraceful, and I haven't found another European country where that happens. My mate as a dual citizen has a permanent national vote in both Germany and Sweden
    I don't think it disgraceful at all. Just because other countries have different rules, it doesn't make ours wrong.

    I know that you feel strongly about this but others feel just as strongly that if you don't reside in a country, you relinquish the right to influence it's politics.

    I know that you will come back to me and point out that you contribute financially into the U.K. but I assume that you do this for long term financial security/gain? Forgive me if I have misunderstood as I do not accuse you of anything, just looking to get the facts right.

    Assuming that I am correct then how would you differentiate your financial input to that of a foreign investor in a business or property in the U.K.?

    Clearly you have family and emotional attachment that people born in another country may not but I can't see a practical difference.

    Not looking for a fight, just my view. Happy to debate.
    It would be very unfair not to let expats vote, as well as administratively impractical, especially for people who move every couple of years. Part of the modern world is that people move around for work and other reasons. Moving abroad does not make them a 'traitor to the country' as I was amusingly called on here once!
  • Chizz
    Chizz Posts: 28,331
    CharltonMadrid said:

    TellyTubby said:

    PragueAddick said:

    EveshamAddick said:

    Fiiish said:

    How do expats vote, exactly? If you have no permanent UK address how do they work out your constituency?

    You can register to vote here if not registered: https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

    Expats can vote if they have been out of the country for less than 15 years. At which point, their right to vote ends.
    EveshamAddick said:

    Fiiish said:

    How do expats vote, exactly? If you have no permanent UK address how do they work out your constituency?

    You can register to vote here if not registered: https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

    Expats can vote if they have been out of the country for less than 15 years. At which point, their right to vote ends.
    Which is disgraceful, and I haven't found another European country where that happens. My mate as a dual citizen has a permanent national vote in both Germany and Sweden
    I don't think it disgraceful at all. Just because other countries have different rules, it doesn't make ours wrong.

    I know that you feel strongly about this but others feel just as strongly that if you don't reside in a country, you relinquish the right to influence it's politics.

    I know that you will come back to me and point out that you contribute financially into the U.K. but I assume that you do this for long term financial security/gain? Forgive me if I have misunderstood as I do not accuse you of anything, just looking to get the facts right.

    Assuming that I am correct then how would you differentiate your financial input to that of a foreign investor in a business or property in the U.K.?

    Clearly you have family and emotional attachment that people born in another country may not but I can't see a practical difference.

    Not looking for a fight, just my view. Happy to debate.
    It would be very unfair not to let expats vote, as well as administratively impractical, especially for people who move every couple of years. Part of the modern world is that people move around for work and other reasons. Moving abroad does not make them a 'traitor to the country' as I was amusingly called on here once!
    It used to be.
  • i_b_b_o_r_g
    i_b_b_o_r_g Posts: 18,948
    Chizz said:

    CharltonMadrid said:

    TellyTubby said:

    PragueAddick said:

    EveshamAddick said:

    Fiiish said:

    How do expats vote, exactly? If you have no permanent UK address how do they work out your constituency?

    You can register to vote here if not registered: https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

    Expats can vote if they have been out of the country for less than 15 years. At which point, their right to vote ends.
    EveshamAddick said:

    Fiiish said:

    How do expats vote, exactly? If you have no permanent UK address how do they work out your constituency?

    You can register to vote here if not registered: https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

    Expats can vote if they have been out of the country for less than 15 years. At which point, their right to vote ends.
    Which is disgraceful, and I haven't found another European country where that happens. My mate as a dual citizen has a permanent national vote in both Germany and Sweden
    I don't think it disgraceful at all. Just because other countries have different rules, it doesn't make ours wrong.

    I know that you feel strongly about this but others feel just as strongly that if you don't reside in a country, you relinquish the right to influence it's politics.

    I know that you will come back to me and point out that you contribute financially into the U.K. but I assume that you do this for long term financial security/gain? Forgive me if I have misunderstood as I do not accuse you of anything, just looking to get the facts right.

    Assuming that I am correct then how would you differentiate your financial input to that of a foreign investor in a business or property in the U.K.?

    Clearly you have family and emotional attachment that people born in another country may not but I can't see a practical difference.

    Not looking for a fight, just my view. Happy to debate.
    It would be very unfair not to let expats vote, as well as administratively impractical, especially for people who move every couple of years. Part of the modern world is that people move around for work and other reasons. Moving abroad does not make them a 'traitor to the country' as I was amusingly called on here once!
    It used to be.
    ????
  • Chizz
    Chizz Posts: 28,331
    i_b_b_o_r_g said:

    Chizz said:

    CharltonMadrid said:

    TellyTubby said:

    PragueAddick said:

    EveshamAddick said:

    Fiiish said:

    How do expats vote, exactly? If you have no permanent UK address how do they work out your constituency?

    You can register to vote here if not registered: https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

    Expats can vote if they have been out of the country for less than 15 years. At which point, their right to vote ends.
    EveshamAddick said:

    Fiiish said:

    How do expats vote, exactly? If you have no permanent UK address how do they work out your constituency?

    You can register to vote here if not registered: https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

    Expats can vote if they have been out of the country for less than 15 years. At which point, their right to vote ends.
    Which is disgraceful, and I haven't found another European country where that happens. My mate as a dual citizen has a permanent national vote in both Germany and Sweden
    I don't think it disgraceful at all. Just because other countries have different rules, it doesn't make ours wrong.

    I know that you feel strongly about this but others feel just as strongly that if you don't reside in a country, you relinquish the right to influence it's politics.

    I know that you will come back to me and point out that you contribute financially into the U.K. but I assume that you do this for long term financial security/gain? Forgive me if I have misunderstood as I do not accuse you of anything, just looking to get the facts right.

    Assuming that I am correct then how would you differentiate your financial input to that of a foreign investor in a business or property in the U.K.?

    Clearly you have family and emotional attachment that people born in another country may not but I can't see a practical difference.

    Not looking for a fight, just my view. Happy to debate.
    It would be very unfair not to let expats vote, as well as administratively impractical, especially for people who move every couple of years. Part of the modern world is that people move around for work and other reasons. Moving abroad does not make them a 'traitor to the country' as I was amusingly called on here once!
    It used to be.
    ????
    We voted against the unfettered right of people to move from country to country for work and other reasons. It was all about bringing back control.
  • CharltonMadrid
    CharltonMadrid Posts: 5,091
    Chizz said:

    CharltonMadrid said:

    TellyTubby said:

    PragueAddick said:

    EveshamAddick said:

    Fiiish said:

    How do expats vote, exactly? If you have no permanent UK address how do they work out your constituency?

    You can register to vote here if not registered: https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

    Expats can vote if they have been out of the country for less than 15 years. At which point, their right to vote ends.
    EveshamAddick said:

    Fiiish said:

    How do expats vote, exactly? If you have no permanent UK address how do they work out your constituency?

    You can register to vote here if not registered: https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

    Expats can vote if they have been out of the country for less than 15 years. At which point, their right to vote ends.
    Which is disgraceful, and I haven't found another European country where that happens. My mate as a dual citizen has a permanent national vote in both Germany and Sweden
    I don't think it disgraceful at all. Just because other countries have different rules, it doesn't make ours wrong.

    I know that you feel strongly about this but others feel just as strongly that if you don't reside in a country, you relinquish the right to influence it's politics.

    I know that you will come back to me and point out that you contribute financially into the U.K. but I assume that you do this for long term financial security/gain? Forgive me if I have misunderstood as I do not accuse you of anything, just looking to get the facts right.

    Assuming that I am correct then how would you differentiate your financial input to that of a foreign investor in a business or property in the U.K.?

    Clearly you have family and emotional attachment that people born in another country may not but I can't see a practical difference.

    Not looking for a fight, just my view. Happy to debate.
    It would be very unfair not to let expats vote, as well as administratively impractical, especially for people who move every couple of years. Part of the modern world is that people move around for work and other reasons. Moving abroad does not make them a 'traitor to the country' as I was amusingly called on here once!
    It used to be.
    Yes - real shame that people won't have as much opportunity to do this in the future.
  • i_b_b_o_r_g
    i_b_b_o_r_g Posts: 18,948
    Chizz said:

    i_b_b_o_r_g said:

    Chizz said:

    CharltonMadrid said:

    TellyTubby said:

    PragueAddick said:

    EveshamAddick said:

    Fiiish said:

    How do expats vote, exactly? If you have no permanent UK address how do they work out your constituency?

    You can register to vote here if not registered: https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

    Expats can vote if they have been out of the country for less than 15 years. At which point, their right to vote ends.
    EveshamAddick said:

    Fiiish said:

    How do expats vote, exactly? If you have no permanent UK address how do they work out your constituency?

    You can register to vote here if not registered: https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

    Expats can vote if they have been out of the country for less than 15 years. At which point, their right to vote ends.
    Which is disgraceful, and I haven't found another European country where that happens. My mate as a dual citizen has a permanent national vote in both Germany and Sweden
    I don't think it disgraceful at all. Just because other countries have different rules, it doesn't make ours wrong.

    I know that you feel strongly about this but others feel just as strongly that if you don't reside in a country, you relinquish the right to influence it's politics.

    I know that you will come back to me and point out that you contribute financially into the U.K. but I assume that you do this for long term financial security/gain? Forgive me if I have misunderstood as I do not accuse you of anything, just looking to get the facts right.

    Assuming that I am correct then how would you differentiate your financial input to that of a foreign investor in a business or property in the U.K.?

    Clearly you have family and emotional attachment that people born in another country may not but I can't see a practical difference.

    Not looking for a fight, just my view. Happy to debate.
    It would be very unfair not to let expats vote, as well as administratively impractical, especially for people who move every couple of years. Part of the modern world is that people move around for work and other reasons. Moving abroad does not make them a 'traitor to the country' as I was amusingly called on here once!
    It used to be.
    ????
    We voted against the unfettered right of people to move from country to country for work and other reasons. It was all about bringing back control.
    People can still "move around for work and other reasons" though
  • TellyTubby
    TellyTubby Posts: 3,550
    PragueAddick said:

    @TellyTubby

    I forgot one more thing. From 96 I started paying into the CZ pension system so for 12 years I was paying into 2 systems. The EU directive ensures that the citizen gets contribs from a second system back as a top up to the first. But when we Brexit that will only be the case if that is specifically negotiated. I calculate that I will have 20k at risk. You cant say i should not have had the right to vote on that, surely?

    Thanks for the full response. I recall that you told us much of this in a previous thread, so I made my comments with this in mind.

    I would stand behind you 100 percent that you should have a return on the 20k you have invested. I very much doubt that you won't get the benefit of it.

    As I said before, I know that you have lots of ties with the U.K. and an active interest but I still don't agree that you should get a vote if you have permanent residency in another country. I think that 15 years is reasonable TBF.

    I get it that uncertainty is worrying, I am sure that we all have some concerns about the known.

    Although a voter has the chance to put a tick in the box, none of us have an effective say over individual matters unless we get a referendum. No I am not calling for more of those.
  • Chizz
    Chizz Posts: 28,331
    i_b_b_o_r_g said:

    Chizz said:

    i_b_b_o_r_g said:

    Chizz said:

    CharltonMadrid said:

    TellyTubby said:

    PragueAddick said:

    EveshamAddick said:

    Fiiish said:

    How do expats vote, exactly? If you have no permanent UK address how do they work out your constituency?

    You can register to vote here if not registered: https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

    Expats can vote if they have been out of the country for less than 15 years. At which point, their right to vote ends.
    EveshamAddick said:

    Fiiish said:

    How do expats vote, exactly? If you have no permanent UK address how do they work out your constituency?

    You can register to vote here if not registered: https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

    Expats can vote if they have been out of the country for less than 15 years. At which point, their right to vote ends.
    Which is disgraceful, and I haven't found another European country where that happens. My mate as a dual citizen has a permanent national vote in both Germany and Sweden
    I don't think it disgraceful at all. Just because other countries have different rules, it doesn't make ours wrong.

    I know that you feel strongly about this but others feel just as strongly that if you don't reside in a country, you relinquish the right to influence it's politics.

    I know that you will come back to me and point out that you contribute financially into the U.K. but I assume that you do this for long term financial security/gain? Forgive me if I have misunderstood as I do not accuse you of anything, just looking to get the facts right.

    Assuming that I am correct then how would you differentiate your financial input to that of a foreign investor in a business or property in the U.K.?

    Clearly you have family and emotional attachment that people born in another country may not but I can't see a practical difference.

    Not looking for a fight, just my view. Happy to debate.
    It would be very unfair not to let expats vote, as well as administratively impractical, especially for people who move every couple of years. Part of the modern world is that people move around for work and other reasons. Moving abroad does not make them a 'traitor to the country' as I was amusingly called on here once!
    It used to be.
    ????
    We voted against the unfettered right of people to move from country to country for work and other reasons. It was all about bringing back control.
    People can still "move around for work and other reasons" though
    Yes. For the next few months. Beyond that it's entirely unclear.

    But I'm sure you understand the point.
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  • Chizz
    Chizz Posts: 28,331
    TellyTubby said:

    PragueAddick said:

    @TellyTubby

    I forgot one more thing. From 96 I started paying into the CZ pension system so for 12 years I was paying into 2 systems. The EU directive ensures that the citizen gets contribs from a second system back as a top up to the first. But when we Brexit that will only be the case if that is specifically negotiated. I calculate that I will have 20k at risk. You cant say i should not have had the right to vote on that, surely?

    Thanks for the full response. I recall that you told us much of this in a previous thread, so I made my comments with this in mind.

    I would stand behind you 100 percent that you should have a return on the 20k you have invested. I very much doubt that you won't get the benefit of it.

    As I said before, I know that you have lots of ties with the U.K. and an active interest but I still don't agree that you should get a vote if you have permanent residency in another country. I think that 15 years is reasonable TBF.

    I get it that uncertainty is worrying, I am sure that we all have some concerns about the known.

    Although a voter has the chance to put a tick in the box, none of us have an effective say over individual matters unless we get a referendum. No I am not calling for more of those.
    Do you ( @TellyTubby And @PragueAddick - and anyone else) think prisoners should get a vote in the General Election?
  • i_b_b_o_r_g
    i_b_b_o_r_g Posts: 18,948
    Chizz said:

    i_b_b_o_r_g said:

    Chizz said:

    i_b_b_o_r_g said:

    Chizz said:

    CharltonMadrid said:

    TellyTubby said:

    PragueAddick said:

    EveshamAddick said:

    Fiiish said:

    How do expats vote, exactly? If you have no permanent UK address how do they work out your constituency?

    You can register to vote here if not registered: https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

    Expats can vote if they have been out of the country for less than 15 years. At which point, their right to vote ends.
    EveshamAddick said:

    Fiiish said:

    How do expats vote, exactly? If you have no permanent UK address how do they work out your constituency?

    You can register to vote here if not registered: https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

    Expats can vote if they have been out of the country for less than 15 years. At which point, their right to vote ends.
    Which is disgraceful, and I haven't found another European country where that happens. My mate as a dual citizen has a permanent national vote in both Germany and Sweden
    I don't think it disgraceful at all. Just because other countries have different rules, it doesn't make ours wrong.

    I know that you feel strongly about this but others feel just as strongly that if you don't reside in a country, you relinquish the right to influence it's politics.

    I know that you will come back to me and point out that you contribute financially into the U.K. but I assume that you do this for long term financial security/gain? Forgive me if I have misunderstood as I do not accuse you of anything, just looking to get the facts right.

    Assuming that I am correct then how would you differentiate your financial input to that of a foreign investor in a business or property in the U.K.?

    Clearly you have family and emotional attachment that people born in another country may not but I can't see a practical difference.

    Not looking for a fight, just my view. Happy to debate.
    It would be very unfair not to let expats vote, as well as administratively impractical, especially for people who move every couple of years. Part of the modern world is that people move around for work and other reasons. Moving abroad does not make them a 'traitor to the country' as I was amusingly called on here once!
    It used to be.
    ????
    We voted against the unfettered right of people to move from country to country for work and other reasons. It was all about bringing back control.
    People can still "move around for work and other reasons" though
    Yes. For the next few months. Beyond that it's entirely unclear.

    But I'm sure you understand the point.
    I do understand it, I just don't agree with it
  • Red_in_SE8
    Red_in_SE8 Posts: 5,961
    Love this quote from Tony Blair this morning.

    "The single market put us in the Champions League of trading agreements. A free-trade agreement is like League One. We are relegating ourselves.”
  • Chizz
    Chizz Posts: 28,331
    i_b_b_o_r_g said:

    Chizz said:

    i_b_b_o_r_g said:

    Chizz said:

    i_b_b_o_r_g said:

    Chizz said:

    CharltonMadrid said:

    TellyTubby said:

    PragueAddick said:

    EveshamAddick said:

    Fiiish said:

    How do expats vote, exactly? If you have no permanent UK address how do they work out your constituency?

    You can register to vote here if not registered: https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

    Expats can vote if they have been out of the country for less than 15 years. At which point, their right to vote ends.
    EveshamAddick said:

    Fiiish said:

    How do expats vote, exactly? If you have no permanent UK address how do they work out your constituency?

    You can register to vote here if not registered: https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

    Expats can vote if they have been out of the country for less than 15 years. At which point, their right to vote ends.
    Which is disgraceful, and I haven't found another European country where that happens. My mate as a dual citizen has a permanent national vote in both Germany and Sweden
    I don't think it disgraceful at all. Just because other countries have different rules, it doesn't make ours wrong.

    I know that you feel strongly about this but others feel just as strongly that if you don't reside in a country, you relinquish the right to influence it's politics.

    I know that you will come back to me and point out that you contribute financially into the U.K. but I assume that you do this for long term financial security/gain? Forgive me if I have misunderstood as I do not accuse you of anything, just looking to get the facts right.

    Assuming that I am correct then how would you differentiate your financial input to that of a foreign investor in a business or property in the U.K.?

    Clearly you have family and emotional attachment that people born in another country may not but I can't see a practical difference.

    Not looking for a fight, just my view. Happy to debate.
    It would be very unfair not to let expats vote, as well as administratively impractical, especially for people who move every couple of years. Part of the modern world is that people move around for work and other reasons. Moving abroad does not make them a 'traitor to the country' as I was amusingly called on here once!
    It used to be.
    ????
    We voted against the unfettered right of people to move from country to country for work and other reasons. It was all about bringing back control.
    People can still "move around for work and other reasons" though
    Yes. For the next few months. Beyond that it's entirely unclear.

    But I'm sure you understand the point.
    I do understand it, I just don't agree with it
    You don't agree that we have had the ability to move country in the past? Or you don't agree that the right to do so is going to be curtailed?
  • TellyTubby
    TellyTubby Posts: 3,550
    Chizz said:

    TellyTubby said:

    PragueAddick said:

    @TellyTubby

    I forgot one more thing. From 96 I started paying into the CZ pension system so for 12 years I was paying into 2 systems. The EU directive ensures that the citizen gets contribs from a second system back as a top up to the first. But when we Brexit that will only be the case if that is specifically negotiated. I calculate that I will have 20k at risk. You cant say i should not have had the right to vote on that, surely?

    Thanks for the full response. I recall that you told us much of this in a previous thread, so I made my comments with this in mind.

    I would stand behind you 100 percent that you should have a return on the 20k you have invested. I very much doubt that you won't get the benefit of it.

    As I said before, I know that you have lots of ties with the U.K. and an active interest but I still don't agree that you should get a vote if you have permanent residency in another country. I think that 15 years is reasonable TBF.

    I get it that uncertainty is worrying, I am sure that we all have some concerns about the known.

    Although a voter has the chance to put a tick in the box, none of us have an effective say over individual matters unless we get a referendum. No I am not calling for more of those.
    Do you ( @TellyTubby And @PragueAddick - and anyone else) think prisoners should get a vote in the General Election?
    Not sure what point you are about to make but I have no problem with the right to vote being removed from someone during their time inside.
  • i_b_b_o_r_g
    i_b_b_o_r_g Posts: 18,948
    Chizz said:

    i_b_b_o_r_g said:

    Chizz said:

    i_b_b_o_r_g said:

    Chizz said:

    i_b_b_o_r_g said:

    Chizz said:

    CharltonMadrid said:

    TellyTubby said:

    PragueAddick said:

    EveshamAddick said:

    Fiiish said:

    How do expats vote, exactly? If you have no permanent UK address how do they work out your constituency?

    You can register to vote here if not registered: https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

    Expats can vote if they have been out of the country for less than 15 years. At which point, their right to vote ends.
    EveshamAddick said:

    Fiiish said:

    How do expats vote, exactly? If you have no permanent UK address how do they work out your constituency?

    You can register to vote here if not registered: https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

    Expats can vote if they have been out of the country for less than 15 years. At which point, their right to vote ends.
    Which is disgraceful, and I haven't found another European country where that happens. My mate as a dual citizen has a permanent national vote in both Germany and Sweden
    I don't think it disgraceful at all. Just because other countries have different rules, it doesn't make ours wrong.

    I know that you feel strongly about this but others feel just as strongly that if you don't reside in a country, you relinquish the right to influence it's politics.

    I know that you will come back to me and point out that you contribute financially into the U.K. but I assume that you do this for long term financial security/gain? Forgive me if I have misunderstood as I do not accuse you of anything, just looking to get the facts right.

    Assuming that I am correct then how would you differentiate your financial input to that of a foreign investor in a business or property in the U.K.?

    Clearly you have family and emotional attachment that people born in another country may not but I can't see a practical difference.

    Not looking for a fight, just my view. Happy to debate.
    It would be very unfair not to let expats vote, as well as administratively impractical, especially for people who move every couple of years. Part of the modern world is that people move around for work and other reasons. Moving abroad does not make them a 'traitor to the country' as I was amusingly called on here once!
    It used to be.
    ????
    We voted against the unfettered right of people to move from country to country for work and other reasons. It was all about bringing back control.
    People can still "move around for work and other reasons" though
    Yes. For the next few months. Beyond that it's entirely unclear.

    But I'm sure you understand the point.
    I do understand it, I just don't agree with it
    You don't agree that we have had the ability to move country in the past? Or you don't agree that the right to do so is going to be curtailed?
    I believe that you will still be able to travel and work in whatever country you can now, all be it with a bit more paperwork to fill in and an extra stamp in your passport
  • Chizz
    Chizz Posts: 28,331
    TellyTubby said:

    Chizz said:

    TellyTubby said:

    PragueAddick said:

    @TellyTubby

    I forgot one more thing. From 96 I started paying into the CZ pension system so for 12 years I was paying into 2 systems. The EU directive ensures that the citizen gets contribs from a second system back as a top up to the first. But when we Brexit that will only be the case if that is specifically negotiated. I calculate that I will have 20k at risk. You cant say i should not have had the right to vote on that, surely?

    Thanks for the full response. I recall that you told us much of this in a previous thread, so I made my comments with this in mind.

    I would stand behind you 100 percent that you should have a return on the 20k you have invested. I very much doubt that you won't get the benefit of it.

    As I said before, I know that you have lots of ties with the U.K. and an active interest but I still don't agree that you should get a vote if you have permanent residency in another country. I think that 15 years is reasonable TBF.

    I get it that uncertainty is worrying, I am sure that we all have some concerns about the known.

    Although a voter has the chance to put a tick in the box, none of us have an effective say over individual matters unless we get a referendum. No I am not calling for more of those.
    Do you ( @TellyTubby And @PragueAddick - and anyone else) think prisoners should get a vote in the General Election?
    Not sure what point you are about to make but I have no problem with the right to vote being removed from someone during their time inside.
    I am absolutly not making a point, I'm just interested in what people's views are.

    My view is that prisoners should be allowed to vote, if their time inside is due to finish within five years. Because it encourages prisoners to be engaged in the process. Prison is for three things: punishment, keeping the public safe, and rehabilitation. And if we are going to rehabilitate people, encouraging them to help determine how we're governed is a very good first step.
  • Chizz
    Chizz Posts: 28,331
    i_b_b_o_r_g said:

    Chizz said:

    i_b_b_o_r_g said:

    Chizz said:

    i_b_b_o_r_g said:

    Chizz said:

    i_b_b_o_r_g said:

    Chizz said:

    CharltonMadrid said:

    TellyTubby said:

    PragueAddick said:

    EveshamAddick said:

    Fiiish said:

    How do expats vote, exactly? If you have no permanent UK address how do they work out your constituency?

    You can register to vote here if not registered: https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

    Expats can vote if they have been out of the country for less than 15 years. At which point, their right to vote ends.
    EveshamAddick said:

    Fiiish said:

    How do expats vote, exactly? If you have no permanent UK address how do they work out your constituency?

    You can register to vote here if not registered: https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

    Expats can vote if they have been out of the country for less than 15 years. At which point, their right to vote ends.
    Which is disgraceful, and I haven't found another European country where that happens. My mate as a dual citizen has a permanent national vote in both Germany and Sweden
    I don't think it disgraceful at all. Just because other countries have different rules, it doesn't make ours wrong.

    I know that you feel strongly about this but others feel just as strongly that if you don't reside in a country, you relinquish the right to influence it's politics.

    I know that you will come back to me and point out that you contribute financially into the U.K. but I assume that you do this for long term financial security/gain? Forgive me if I have misunderstood as I do not accuse you of anything, just looking to get the facts right.

    Assuming that I am correct then how would you differentiate your financial input to that of a foreign investor in a business or property in the U.K.?

    Clearly you have family and emotional attachment that people born in another country may not but I can't see a practical difference.

    Not looking for a fight, just my view. Happy to debate.
    It would be very unfair not to let expats vote, as well as administratively impractical, especially for people who move every couple of years. Part of the modern world is that people move around for work and other reasons. Moving abroad does not make them a 'traitor to the country' as I was amusingly called on here once!
    It used to be.
    ????
    We voted against the unfettered right of people to move from country to country for work and other reasons. It was all about bringing back control.
    People can still "move around for work and other reasons" though
    Yes. For the next few months. Beyond that it's entirely unclear.

    But I'm sure you understand the point.
    I do understand it, I just don't agree with it
    You don't agree that we have had the ability to move country in the past? Or you don't agree that the right to do so is going to be curtailed?
    I believe that you will still be able to travel and work in whatever country you can now, all be it with a bit more paperwork to fill in and an extra stamp in your passport
    We can only hope.
  • i_b_b_o_r_g
    i_b_b_o_r_g Posts: 18,948
    Chizz said:

    i_b_b_o_r_g said:

    Chizz said:

    i_b_b_o_r_g said:

    Chizz said:

    i_b_b_o_r_g said:

    Chizz said:

    i_b_b_o_r_g said:

    Chizz said:

    CharltonMadrid said:

    TellyTubby said:

    PragueAddick said:

    EveshamAddick said:

    Fiiish said:

    How do expats vote, exactly? If you have no permanent UK address how do they work out your constituency?

    You can register to vote here if not registered: https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

    Expats can vote if they have been out of the country for less than 15 years. At which point, their right to vote ends.
    EveshamAddick said:

    Fiiish said:

    How do expats vote, exactly? If you have no permanent UK address how do they work out your constituency?

    You can register to vote here if not registered: https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

    Expats can vote if they have been out of the country for less than 15 years. At which point, their right to vote ends.
    Which is disgraceful, and I haven't found another European country where that happens. My mate as a dual citizen has a permanent national vote in both Germany and Sweden
    I don't think it disgraceful at all. Just because other countries have different rules, it doesn't make ours wrong.

    I know that you feel strongly about this but others feel just as strongly that if you don't reside in a country, you relinquish the right to influence it's politics.

    I know that you will come back to me and point out that you contribute financially into the U.K. but I assume that you do this for long term financial security/gain? Forgive me if I have misunderstood as I do not accuse you of anything, just looking to get the facts right.

    Assuming that I am correct then how would you differentiate your financial input to that of a foreign investor in a business or property in the U.K.?

    Clearly you have family and emotional attachment that people born in another country may not but I can't see a practical difference.

    Not looking for a fight, just my view. Happy to debate.
    It would be very unfair not to let expats vote, as well as administratively impractical, especially for people who move every couple of years. Part of the modern world is that people move around for work and other reasons. Moving abroad does not make them a 'traitor to the country' as I was amusingly called on here once!
    It used to be.
    ????
    We voted against the unfettered right of people to move from country to country for work and other reasons. It was all about bringing back control.
    People can still "move around for work and other reasons" though
    Yes. For the next few months. Beyond that it's entirely unclear.

    But I'm sure you understand the point.
    I do understand it, I just don't agree with it
    You don't agree that we have had the ability to move country in the past? Or you don't agree that the right to do so is going to be curtailed?
    I believe that you will still be able to travel and work in whatever country you can now, all be it with a bit more paperwork to fill in and an extra stamp in your passport
    We can only hope.
    Do you think there will be complete bans on going to certain EU countries after Brexit then?
  • TellyTubby
    TellyTubby Posts: 3,550
    Chizz said:

    TellyTubby said:

    Chizz said:

    TellyTubby said:

    PragueAddick said:

    @TellyTubby

    I forgot one more thing. From 96 I started paying into the CZ pension system so for 12 years I was paying into 2 systems. The EU directive ensures that the citizen gets contribs from a second system back as a top up to the first. But when we Brexit that will only be the case if that is specifically negotiated. I calculate that I will have 20k at risk. You cant say i should not have had the right to vote on that, surely?

    Thanks for the full response. I recall that you told us much of this in a previous thread, so I made my comments with this in mind.

    I would stand behind you 100 percent that you should have a return on the 20k you have invested. I very much doubt that you won't get the benefit of it.

    As I said before, I know that you have lots of ties with the U.K. and an active interest but I still don't agree that you should get a vote if you have permanent residency in another country. I think that 15 years is reasonable TBF.

    I get it that uncertainty is worrying, I am sure that we all have some concerns about the known.

    Although a voter has the chance to put a tick in the box, none of us have an effective say over individual matters unless we get a referendum. No I am not calling for more of those.
    Do you ( @TellyTubby And @PragueAddick - and anyone else) think prisoners should get a vote in the General Election?
    Not sure what point you are about to make but I have no problem with the right to vote being removed from someone during their time inside.
    I am absolutly not making a point, I'm just interested in what people's views are.

    My view is that prisoners should be allowed to vote, if their time inside is due to finish within five years. Because it encourages prisoners to be engaged in the process. Prison is for three things: punishment, keeping the public safe, and rehabilitation. And if we are going to rehabilitate people, encouraging them to help determine how we're governed is a very good first step.
    Fair points.

    Funny enough I have a plan to approach my local prisons with a view to help towards help with rehabilitation of some. Nowhere near ready yet though.
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