Attendance yesterday
Comments
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I was back for one game at the start of the season - mainly to meet up with old friends & show my kids some family history - but if I lived in SE London again I wouldn't be going any where near The Valley until the old scroat sells up and takes his SMT with him - no matter now well we were doing.
They ripped the heart and soul out of our club from top to bottom - you don't just pretend that it all never happened.
One day we will get our club back.4 -
Yep, sums it up for me.Airman Brown said:There simply isn't going to be any reconnection with the club under this ownership and this chief executive. The extent of alienation is quite remarkable, even among people currently attending, even among fans who have been going for decades. It doesn't include everyone for a whole variety of reasons and that's what allows people to claim that the "lessons learned" mantra can change things, but the reality is the regime will never be forgiven by too many fans for the situation to be reversed.
Regular supporter since 1962 despite not having lived in the area since 1969 and Charlton was the only reason to come to London once my parents died.
Went on the 'coffin' march at the Valley and have been to only a handful of home games subsequently - none this season.
This is not based on results or quality of football (good or bad) nor is it a product of an out-and-out boycott decision. I just don't feel the connection to the Club anymore and this is partly due to a feeling of not being valued as a fan; indeed being viewed instead (I am certain by Meire) as collateral damage if I don't attend, in the regime's pursuit of the match-day experience stereotypical fan - a fan perhaps something akin to RDs ideal of having a beer, watching the game and going to the after-match dance and meal. Its kind of like producing a manufactured fan which if Meire had her way would probably live somewhere like Barnes or elsewhere in South West London - what was that all about?
The number of e-mails I get from the Club inviting me to Curry nights and/or any other of a host of ill-conceived themed match-day events is further testament to Meire's continuing penchant for the 'market it more brand it more' philosophy which she outlined at an early stage in Dublin.
It's Charlton Jim but not as we know it.
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I'd put myself in that category, its never mattered what league we were in or who we were playing or even if it was our reserves. If we were playing crap football or holding or own in the premiership, but one thing I never thought possible was that Charlton Athletic Football Club would treat its fans with such contempt. I'm not talking about my run in with them, but we heard at the start "He's a very rich man" and "We don't need the money" with reference to the now defunct VIP scheme and 3 years later we are cancelling supporters coaches to away matches for the sake of a few hundred quid. So you turn down a few grand and then can't raise a couple of hundred, whats it to be KM? I would suggest ( and its my cynical guess) the VIP scheme may have been seen by some to be buying an influence almost like a minor shareholder, because if we didn't need the money why wasn't the VG cancelled and he could have paid for the Academy himself. We hear about meetings with fans, but if they had an interest in bringing the crowds back they'd be meeting with the ones that aren't there not one's that are there to see the game. I came back for the the Memorial Game and an already sad occasion was worsened as I looked around that beautiful Stadium and I kept thinking back to Belgium and what he's done that place, how everyone I spoke to from our cab driver to our hotel owner, from supporters and barmen just wanted him gone. I'm sure now I'll never return, but its no longer about me its about the generations after me that I fear for.RaplhMilne said:Some people will rock up at the valley to watch anything, league 2, National league, Conference South, whatever. They want to connect with mates have a beer, get away from the wife and kids, or whatever. The actual football is a portion of their afternoon out, and if it's shit doesn't have to ruin the day.
I used to be in this category and watch the shit with crowds of 4,000 and the glamour with the 27,000. However, slowly as we have dropped down the leagues and show little sign of any change in that slide, my group got smaller and smaller.
I am now a fan who wants to be entertained on a Saturday, I want to to turn up enjoy the game , and see a decent side play , and think that my club is making every endevour to move forward. The match is now the sole reason for going !
After 3 years of complete shit and disappointment, I struggle to find the reason to come. I broke my boycott for the Wigan game. After, that why would I come back. I haven't had a season ticket for 4 years, and the longer it goes on the less I miss it.
Once any thing else in my life fitted in around football. Now I occasionally fit football in around the other things. If our fortunes continue to decline over the next couple years, I can not see me ever becoming a regular again.6 -
RM chose to align himself with Jimenez and Slater in their disputes with Varney and Kavanagh, despite knowing what he was dealing with. It's difficult for me to have any respect for that. He has since tried to defend the indefensible with the Belgians - never mind 2006 onwards. So I think at this point his credibility is shot to pieces, but I don't regard him as being as toxic as the Belgians because the good things for which he was responsible will always carry some weight too.Hex said:
I agree totally, but out of interest, would you include Richard Murray as part of the regime in this respect ?Airman Brown said:There simply isn't going to be any reconnection with the club under this ownership and this chief executive. The extent of alienation is quite remarkable, even among people currently attending, even among fans who have been going for decades. It doesn't include everyone for a whole variety of reasons and that's what allows people to claim that the "lessons learned" mantra can change things, but the reality is the regime will never be forgiven by too many fans for the situation to be reversed.
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I no longer go very often not as a direct result of the Belgians, but as an indirect result (because watching midtable L1 football in a third full stadium doesn't do much for me).
Also as others have noted once you get used to just following the game via Twitter, radio, Sky etc you realise that you don't miss it as much as you thought and are grateful to have a lot more precious time on a Saturday.
In short when we win I am pleased regardless and if we lose/draw then I am glad I didn't bother going.1 -
Richard Murray is a confused man, who has sold his bottom and self respect to the Belgians.Hex said:
I agree totally, but out of interest, would you include Richard Murray as part of the regime in this respect ?Airman Brown said:There simply isn't going to be any reconnection with the club under this ownership and this chief executive. The extent of alienation is quite remarkable, even among people currently attending, even among fans who have been going for decades. It doesn't include everyone for a whole variety of reasons and that's what allows people to claim that the "lessons learned" mantra can change things, but the reality is the regime will never be forgiven by too many fans for the situation to be reversed.
A shame.1 -
A fairweather fan then? It does not work like that.newyorkaddick said:I no longer go very often not as a direct result of the Belgians, but as an indirect result (because watching midtable L1 football in a third full stadium doesn't do much for me).
Also as others have noted once you get used to just following the game via Twitter, radio, Sky etc you realise that you don't miss it as much as you thought and are grateful to have a lot more precious time on a Saturday.
In short when we win I am pleased regardless and if we lose/draw then I am glad I didn't bother going.0 -
I only go for the protest games.
I think the important thing is not how many aren't there, but how many are.
Fans still going to support the regime's team means that a quick exit by Duchatelet is less likely.
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Interesting. My thoughts are similar. I wonder if he has one last trick up his sleeve to regain a little respect or whether he will go down in flames with Roland ?Airman Brown said:
RM chose to align himself with Jimenez and Slater in their disputes with Varney and Kavanagh, despite knowing what he was dealing with. It's difficult for me to have any respect for that. He has since tried to defend the indefensible with the Belgians - never mind 2006 onwards. So I think at this point his credibility is shot to pieces, but I don't regard him as being as toxic as the Belgians because the good things for which he was responsible will always carry some weight too.Hex said:
I agree totally, but out of interest, would you include Richard Murray as part of the regime in this respect ?Airman Brown said:There simply isn't going to be any reconnection with the club under this ownership and this chief executive. The extent of alienation is quite remarkable, even among people currently attending, even among fans who have been going for decades. It doesn't include everyone for a whole variety of reasons and that's what allows people to claim that the "lessons learned" mantra can change things, but the reality is the regime will never be forgiven by too many fans for the situation to be reversed.
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I attend some matches. I do not spend any money in the shop or catering.
RD and KM will never be forgiven and the club will not start to recover until they go.
Richard Murray , along with other Directors should be showing more support for the club and distancing themselves from RD and KM.
I would suggest Richard Murray would not be interested in a future part in a new regime. Curbs a good bet as a Chairman/ Director.
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Season ticket holder for 20 years until year 'fore last. Cannot conceive of attending with ye Belgians here. I have started to question the pledge to come back if they they leave. Hope its a choice I have to make soon
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I can think of one, should I ring them tomorrow and suggest it to them?cafc999 said:The worrying thing is that the club have no plan to try and increase attendances.
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What's new. A team drops down the leagues and the attendances go down. Back in the 60's our average gate at home in the old division 2 was about 12k and when we went down to the 3rd division we averaged about 6k. We're doing better now. Agreed, we don't like these owners and they can be blamed for where we are now but that's football. Our attendances in this decline have actually been better than our decline in the 60's and 70's.
When we start going up again (and we will) the attendances will improve. This is a consequence of nothing more than people finding other things to do with their time and money as many have said on here. Congratulations to those sticking by the team.
This isn't a new thing particular to these owners. And, probably, whoever the owners were I'm sure they would be getting the blame. The Glikstens weren't exactly flavours of the month back in the 60's.2 -
You are wrong to suggest that it is only to do with our league status. The fans stuck with the club after our drop from the Premier League into League One because there was a generally positive feel about the club, following 15 years of constructive ownership. Even the spivs managed to strike into that positivity in 2011/12.Rob said:What's new. A team drops down the leagues and the attendances go down. Back in the 60's our average gate at home in the old division 2 was about 12k and when we went down to the 3rd division we averaged about 6k. We're doing better now. Agreed, we don't like these owners and they can be blamed for where we are now but that's football. Our attendances in this decline have actually been better than our decline in the 60's and 70's.
When we start going up again (and we will) the attendances will improve. This is a consequence of nothing more than people finding other things to do with their time and money as many have said on here. Congratulations to those sticking by the team.
This isn't a new thing particular to these owners. And, probably, whoever the owners were I'm sure they would be getting the blame. The Glikstens weren't exactly flavours of the month back in the 60's.
Under Roland's tenure there has been no positivity, only a slow lingering death and that is the reason for the current piss-poor attendances which will continue to dwindle.
Roland goes and the crowds will return, even in this division.11 -
I didn't see any tax dodgers in the north lower.0
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Or maybe that it is much tougher to tap into new markets than you think...TelMc32 said:
So Roly & Kat can't even sell a game and a pint for a fiver to local students.Redhenry said:I didn't see any tax dodgers in the north lower.
Surely even the thickest skinned narcissist starts to realise that maybe, just maybe, they really are feckin' useless!!!
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Charlton have been in the third tier of English football in the 70`s and 80`s and guess what the crowds were piss poor. Charlton unlike say West Ham, Or Leeds Newcastle etc have never had a very large die hard following who will follow them what ever league they are in. It has always been built on league posistion . In the premiership days crowds were built on those football watchers who came to get a chance to watch Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool Arsenals etc, and at cheap prices. Not to watch Charlton they were not interested in us and so crowds fell away when we were relegated.0
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Partially true.....but something of gross over simplification there somerton.msomerton said:Charlton have been in the third tier of English football in the 70`s and 80`s and guess what the crowds were piss poor. Charlton unlike say West Ham, Or Leeds Newcastle etc have never had a very large die hard following who will follow them what ever league they are in. It has always been built on league posistion . In the premiership days crowds were built on those football watchers who came to get a chance to watch Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool Arsenals etc, and at cheap prices. Not to watch Charlton they were not interested in us and so crowds fell away when we were relegated.
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As I mentioned in the post match thread There is going to be an absolute deluge of potential new attendees who are buying homes down the road at GMV.AFKABartram said:
Or maybe that it is much tougher to tap into new markets than you think...TelMc32 said:
So Roly & Kat can't even sell a game and a pint for a fiver to local students.Redhenry said:I didn't see any tax dodgers in the north lower.
Surely even the thickest skinned narcissist starts to realise that maybe, just maybe, they really are feckin' useless!!!
Showing some ambition and creating a squad and atmosphere that people want to get behind would be a start.
But when your idea of fun is a bore draw with Bury and a bit of a dance after, I'd say you are pretty much f****d!.1 - Sponsored links:
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@msomerton although that is true, recent delves into league 1 show a slightly different picture. Sure we aren't going to sell out every game until we are in the premier again but it's fair to expect 15k in league 1, therefore the current attendances are as we know more to do with other things than being in league 1.3
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But it shouldn't be Dan, and I honestly think wouldn't be, for a well run business with owners and management who look like they actually care.AFKABartram said:
Or maybe that it is much tougher to tap into new markets than you think...TelMc32 said:
So Roly & Kat can't even sell a game and a pint for a fiver to local students.Redhenry said:I didn't see any tax dodgers in the north lower.
Surely even the thickest skinned narcissist starts to realise that maybe, just maybe, they really are feckin' useless!!!
There is huge potential in the near vicinity of The Valley, with thousands of new homes going up across Greenwich and Woolwich. I honestly don't know if the club have done anything to appeal to those new residents in the borough.
I certainly haven't heard a word from them since giving up my season ticket the season before last. That's having been going since I was four and having 10 year VIP tickets and the two shorter term follow ups.
I attended one game last season (couldn't help myself, was convinced we would finally beat the Spanners again). I would definitely have gone to the Legends game if I had been in the country and I will renew as soon as they are gone. I have found other things to do, but my dad and I do miss it and will be back.
In the meantime, what exactly is the club doing to grow attendances? As far as I am concerned, nothing has changed. We have a decent first 11 but, yet again under Duchatelet and Meire, we have no depth!
We have no affinity to the management and an almost complete failure of trust (it's gone completely for me). That backdrop just won't encourage anyone who might be thinking of going, but I don't see the club even trying.8 -
I genuinely believe that if they sold up tomorrow we wouldn't see a marked improvement in attendances....maybe a few hundred initially, but I reckon most who have drifted away have got used to not going and would pick and choose.
Might be different if we were in the championship.4 -
Same for me Ralphie - I simply haven't wanted to be at matches for the last couple of years and resent them so much that it spoils any enjoyment I might have taken, even from sub-standard football. Not another penny from me until they are gone. If that doesn't happen 'soon' I might not feel the over-whelming need to return regularly if at all when they do eventually go. It's so sad that Duchatelet doesn't get this or doesn't give a toss if he does. If he really cared about his 'investment' he should have stepped in and removed Meire when she was at the height of her war with supporters. His decision to allow her to continue to pour petrol on the flames has burnt all his bridges and put himself in an unrecoverable position. They have to go before the club can really move on.RaplhMilne said:Some people will rock up at the valley to watch anything, league 2, National league, Conference South, whatever. They want to connect with mates have a beer, get away from the wife and kids, or whatever. The actual football is a portion of their afternoon out, and if it's shit doesn't have to ruin the day.
I used to be in this category and watch the shit with crowds of 4,000 and the glamour with the 27,000. However, slowly as we have dropped down the leagues and show little sign of any change in that slide, my group got smaller and smaller.
I am now a fan who wants to be entertained on a Saturday, I want to to turn up enjoy the game , and see a decent side play , and think that my club is making every endevour to move forward. The match is now the sole reason for going !
After 3 years of complete shit and disappointment, I struggle to find the reason to come. I broke my boycott for the Wigan game. After, that why would I come back. I haven't had a season ticket for 4 years, and the longer it goes on the less I miss it.
Once any thing else in my life fitted in around football. Now I occasionally fit football in around the other things. If our fortunes continue to decline over the next couple years, I can not see me ever becoming a regular again.5 -
Not sure this is entirely true. I have no idea what other people would do or what the numbers are, but I would return as soon as they go. I had season tickets last time we were in League One, didn't even cross my mind not to renew then. Attendances then suggest others have done the same as me.msomerton said:Charlton have been in the third tier of English football in the 70`s and 80`s and guess what the crowds were piss poor. Charlton unlike say West Ham, Or Leeds Newcastle etc have never had a very large die hard following who will follow them what ever league they are in. It has always been built on league posistion . In the premiership days crowds were built on those football watchers who came to get a chance to watch Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool Arsenals etc, and at cheap prices. Not to watch Charlton they were not interested in us and so crowds fell away when we were relegated.
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Thing is were 5,000 supporters down I don't think in League 1 we will attract many new supporters.TelMc32 said:
But it shouldn't be Dan, and I honestly think wouldn't be, for a well run business with owners and management who look like they actually care.AFKABartram said:
Or maybe that it is much tougher to tap into new markets than you think...TelMc32 said:
So Roly & Kat can't even sell a game and a pint for a fiver to local students.Redhenry said:I didn't see any tax dodgers in the north lower.
Surely even the thickest skinned narcissist starts to realise that maybe, just maybe, they really are feckin' useless!!!
There is huge potential in the near vicinity of The Valley, with thousands of new homes going up across Greenwich and Woolwich. I honestly don't know if the club have done anything to appeal to those new residents in the borough.
I certainly haven't heard a word from them since giving up my season ticket the season before last. That's having been going since I was four and having 10 year VIP tickets and the two shorter term follow ups.
I attended one game last season (couldn't help myself, was convinced we would finally beat the Spanners again). I would definitely have gone to the Legends game if I had been in the country and I will renew as soon as they are gone. I have found other things to do, but my dad and I do miss it and will be back.
In the meantime, what exactly is the club doing to grow attendances? As far as I am concerned, nothing has changed. We have a decent first 11 but, yet again under Duchatelet and Meire, we have no depth!
We have no affinity to the management and an almost complete failure of trust (it's gone completely for me). That backdrop just won't encourage anyone who might be thinking of going, but I don't see the club even trying.
And at a guess at least 3,500 are saying they are not coming back till the Belgians are gone.
I'd like to know how many season ticket holders we have who come because of the £175 know they will be missing 6 -8 games a season0 -
Agree with Eltham, there might be an initial little surge to 12k ish but I cant see us getting back to regular 15k crowds unless we get new owners and promotion.
I had a season ticket from 1985-2016 and gave up as a protest so now its easier to miss games as the initial financial outlay isn't there.
TBH unless there was a complete change in the pricing structure in the East stand I am unlikely to get a ST again as its too easy to buy cheap seats and sit in my normal one with family in the E block. The pricing in the middle blocks is ludicrous.
Peoples lives change once they are out of the habit and whilst I still enjoy watching the team there is no denying that the off the pitch stuff is draining everyone.2 -
msomerton said:
Charlton have been in the third tier of English football in the 70`s and 80`s and guess what the crowds were piss poor. Charlton unlike say West Ham, Or Leeds Newcastle etc have never had a very large die hard following who will follow them what ever league they are in. It has always been built on league posistion . In the premiership days crowds were built on those football watchers who came to get a chance to watch Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool Arsenals etc, and at cheap prices. Not to watch Charlton they were not interested in us and so crowds fell away when we were relegated.</blockquote
70's and 80's were different times so not really a real comparison but I do take your point of die hard supporters.0 -
for those of you who don't read / notice the pinned threads at the top of the board, grateful if you could participate in the poll below
http://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/79267/new-poll-did-you-attend-saturday-or-not0 -
I can identify so much with this post. Watching Charlton home and away used to be part of a drink and laugh with my mates until they all drifted away. Later, for 17 years it was a way of spending Saturday with my son until he moved oop north. Now I go for the match, and the Valley atmosphere. It's my second season without a S/T, I'll do a few homes and a few aways just to keep in touch until they sell.RaplhMilne said:Some people will rock up at the valley to watch anything, league 2, National league, Conference South, whatever. They want to connect with mates have a beer, get away from the wife and kids, or whatever. The actual football is a portion of their afternoon out, and if it's shit doesn't have to ruin the day.
I used to be in this category and watch the shit with crowds of 4,000 and the glamour with the 27,000. However, slowly as we have dropped down the leagues and show little sign of any change in that slide, my group got smaller and smaller.
I am now a fan who wants to be entertained on a Saturday, I want to to turn up enjoy the game , and see a decent side play , and think that my club is making every endevour to move forward. The match is now the sole reason for going !
After 3 years of complete shit and disappointment, I struggle to find the reason to come. I broke my boycott for the Wigan game. After, that why would I come back. I haven't had a season ticket for 4 years, and the longer it goes on the less I miss it.
Once any thing else in my life fitted in around football. Now I occasionally fit football in around the other things. If our fortunes continue to decline over the next couple years, I can not see me ever becoming a regular again.2
