The influence of the EU on Britain.
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https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36247456&ved=0ahUKEwjh0rz49IfYAhXiJ8AKHca9CqUQFggjMAI&usg=AOvVaw0YhjL5_FSreFsTMG8EXpcH&cf=1seth plum said:
Glad you're man or woman enough to admit I am right..Southbank said:Yes, of course you are right. Our parliament has always been able to debate, vote on and reject EU directives. My mistake.
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Interesting article that demonstrates that the EU did not impose anything on the UK.Southbank said:
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36247456&ved=0ahUKEwjh0rz49IfYAhXiJ8AKHca9CqUQFggjMAI&usg=AOvVaw0YhjL5_FSreFsTMG8EXpcH&cf=1seth plum said:
Glad you're man or woman enough to admit I am right..Southbank said:Yes, of course you are right. Our parliament has always been able to debate, vote on and reject EU directives. My mistake.
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Did you miss the words 'automatically binding'?seth plum said:
Interesting article that demonstrates that the EU did not impose anything on the UK.Southbank said:
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36247456&ved=0ahUKEwjh0rz49IfYAhXiJ8AKHca9CqUQFggjMAI&usg=AOvVaw0YhjL5_FSreFsTMG8EXpcH&cf=1seth plum said:
Glad you're man or woman enough to admit I am right..Southbank said:Yes, of course you are right. Our parliament has always been able to debate, vote on and reject EU directives. My mistake.
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Did you miss the fact that the UK has been a member of, and a participant in, the EU for more than forty years past?Southbank said:
Did you miss the words 'automatically binding'?seth plum said:
Interesting article that demonstrates that the EU did not impose anything on the UK.Southbank said:
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36247456&ved=0ahUKEwjh0rz49IfYAhXiJ8AKHca9CqUQFggjMAI&usg=AOvVaw0YhjL5_FSreFsTMG8EXpcH&cf=1seth plum said:
Glad you're man or woman enough to admit I am right..Southbank said:Yes, of course you are right. Our parliament has always been able to debate, vote on and reject EU directives. My mistake.
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For forty years EU supporters have been happy that the EU override parliamentary sovereignty. Suddenly EU supporters support parliamentary sovereignty as a means to allow the EU to continue to override parliamentary sovereignty.
You could not make it up.2 -
I am slightly and surprisingly encouraged that the people we the people send to Westminster to represent us do actually have some cahones and not blindly follow the party whip when their conscience finally kicks in.
Quite where May and Davis go from here I have no idea.1 -
Or, that the majority of MPs who have always been against Brexit are confident to no longer represent the majority of the people who voted for it.ShootersHillGuru said:I am slightly and surprisingly encouraged that the people we the people send to Westminster to represent us do actually have some cahones and not blindly follow the party whip when their conscience finally kicks in.
Quite where May and Davis go from here I have no idea.2 -
And from the other point of view, Brexiteers wanted the UK parliament to take back control of our laws. They're just doing what the people asked of them in the EU vote.Southbank said:No need to pretend, guys. You did not give a toss about parliamentary sovereignty in all the years that EU legislation has been imposed on us. You only care now because you know that this vote is anti Brexit.
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The people asked them to leave the EU, not to use Parliament to prevent it.SELR_addicks said:
And from the other point of view, Brexiteers wanted the UK parliament to take back control of our laws. They're just doing what the people asked of them in the EU vote.Southbank said:No need to pretend, guys. You did not give a toss about parliamentary sovereignty in all the years that EU legislation has been imposed on us. You only care now because you know that this vote is anti Brexit.
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Prevent it ? Who said anything about preventing it ? This was about making sure that the government were not able to use undemocratic executive powers and ensured parliamentary democracy was restored.Southbank said:
The people asked them to leave the EU, not to use Parliament to prevent it.SELR_addicks said:
And from the other point of view, Brexiteers wanted the UK parliament to take back control of our laws. They're just doing what the people asked of them in the EU vote.Southbank said:No need to pretend, guys. You did not give a toss about parliamentary sovereignty in all the years that EU legislation has been imposed on us. You only care now because you know that this vote is anti Brexit.
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@Southbank I am struggling to see if there is any essential difference between this:
No need to pretend, guys. You did not give a toss about parliamentary sovereignty in all the years that EU legislation has been imposed on us. You only care now because you know that this vote is anti Brexit.
And now this:
The EU has not overridden Parliamentary Sovereignty (unless you can supply examples I have missed), neither, as I said above, has the EU imposed anything on the UK.Southbank said:For forty years EU supporters have been happy that the EU override parliamentary sovereignty. Suddenly EU supporters support parliamentary sovereignty as a means to allow the EU to continue to override parliamentary sovereignty.
You could not make it up.
The UK has been a participating member of the EU, and as such has been able to influence what the EU does just like any other EU country, it has been the choice of the UK to do so. Furthermore the EU is a democratic organisation and the UK has freely participated in that particular democratic system of it's own free will.
If there has been any overriding it has been the UK riding itself, if there has been any imposition it has been the UK imposing stuff on itself.
There have been plenty of examples where the UK government has imposed stuff on the good people of Lewisham, and overridden decisions taken by Lewisham council, but Lewisham recognises that by participating in the UK system of democracy, the decisions and impositions such as they are, are fair enough.
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The majority of MP's voted today for Parliamentary Democracy and Sovereignty, which seems to fully endorse the aspirations of the brexit voting majority of the population.Southbank said:
Or, that the majority of MPs who have always been against Brexit are confident to no longer represent the majority of the people who voted for it.ShootersHillGuru said:I am slightly and surprisingly encouraged that the people we the people send to Westminster to represent us do actually have some cahones and not blindly follow the party whip when their conscience finally kicks in.
Quite where May and Davis go from here I have no idea.6 -
Has it been prevented?Southbank said:
The people asked them to leave the EU, not to use Parliament to prevent it.SELR_addicks said:
And from the other point of view, Brexiteers wanted the UK parliament to take back control of our laws. They're just doing what the people asked of them in the EU vote.Southbank said:No need to pretend, guys. You did not give a toss about parliamentary sovereignty in all the years that EU legislation has been imposed on us. You only care now because you know that this vote is anti Brexit.
Today's vote hasn't done that has it?0 -
Only 37% of the electorate voted for Brexit 18 months ago. Current polls suggest Remain would win if the Referendum was held today. Brexit does not represent the will of the people.Southbank said:
Or, that the majority of MPs who have always been against Brexit are confident to no longer represent the majority of the people who voted for it.ShootersHillGuru said:I am slightly and surprisingly encouraged that the people we the people send to Westminster to represent us do actually have some cahones and not blindly follow the party whip when their conscience finally kicks in.
Quite where May and Davis go from here I have no idea.2 -
The issue Seth, is national sovereignty expressed through Parliament. You are happy to give some of it up and I am not. It comes down to that really. I do not believe that democracy can operate outside the nation state and you do.1 -
Don't we elect MEPs to represent us? We are able to influence EU legislation through many routes. Can you please give specific examples where the EU has"imposed" legislation on the UK without representation from any of our elected representatives or officials.Southbank said:
Did you miss the words 'automatically binding'?seth plum said:
Interesting article that demonstrates that the EU did not impose anything on the UK.Southbank said:
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36247456&ved=0ahUKEwjh0rz49IfYAhXiJ8AKHca9CqUQFggjMAI&usg=AOvVaw0YhjL5_FSreFsTMG8EXpcH&cf=1seth plum said:
Glad you're man or woman enough to admit I am right..Southbank said:Yes, of course you are right. Our parliament has always been able to debate, vote on and reject EU directives. My mistake.
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Have you been paying attention? You saw it in action this evening.Southbank said:
The issue Seth, is national sovereignty expressed through Parliament. You are happy to give some of it up and I am not. It comes down to that really. I do not believe that democracy can operate outside the nation state and you do.
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I agree with the way you describe our differences.Southbank said:
The issue Seth, is national sovereignty expressed through Parliament. You are happy to give some of it up and I am not. It comes down to that really. I do not believe that democracy can operate outside the nation state and you do.
What I am pushing back against is what you say about EU democracy, which was also UK democracy, or that the MP's today were trying to prevent brexit, or that at any time, in any sense, the UK has been somehow the victim of the EU when the UK has been participating in the EU.
If you said you simply don't like things the way they were, like some people simply don't like cheese, or sprouts, or mushrooms, that would seem to be fair enough, rather than saying that mushrooms, sprouts or cheese are not foodstuffs.0 -
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Most of the EU rules and regs were about common standards on agriculture, consumer rights, safety of manufactured goods and workers rights.Southbank said:No need to pretend, guys. You did not give a toss about parliamentary sovereignty in all the years that EU legislation has been imposed on us. You only care now because you know that this vote is anti Brexit.
Nothing to do with Health, housing, education, benefits, tax and pensions which were and have always been governed by our Parliament.
We shared common standards and only a minority had a problem with that. What we are seeing now is the majority who want some form of cooperation finding a voice.
Those 12 Tory Mps tonight always held their views. They have been voiced on behalf of the country this time.1 -
Delicious salty Brexiter tears.
Keep posting Southbank, you throwing your lot in with those who support fascism is brilliant.2 -
Total respect for Dominic Grieve (not something I'd say about many tories). Should be the next leader of the Conservative Party:-)1
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What has the poor man ever done to you ? ;0)Chaz Hill said:Total respect for Dominic Grieve (not something I'd say about many tories). Should be the next leader of the Conservative Party:-)
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Shame that only 11 Tories have a spine and are willing to stand up for the people.Chaz Hill said:Total respect for Dominic Grieve (not something I'd say about many tories). Should be the next leader of the Conservative Party:-)
The rest are writhing supplicants in the pay of the fourth estate. There's a special place in hell for traitors.5 -
As a leave voter and Brexit supporter (who is worried about the long queues in Tesco), I want to say that the Parliament vote this evening shouldn't count, because only 614 MP's voted, so it doesn't represent the democratic view of the whole house.
Also, those who voted against the Government were mostly stupid and weren't given the full facts behind the proposition.
I have just seen some opinion polls, and some MP's are already regretting voting against the Gov't. -
Latest poll of MP's feelings after Gov't defeat in Parliament:
Poll by Smash Hits:
Regret = 51%, No Regrets = 30%, Robbie Williams = 10%, New Order = 5%, Walker Brothers 4%
Democracy in action.6 -
Surprised Chelmsford's Vicky Ford didn't rebel0
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Amazing to see the break down of Brexiteers.
Why did you vote Brexit?
To restore parliamentary sovereignty.
No not that kind of parliamentary sovereignty, only the kind that I agree with!!!
Arguing against the result of this vote is totally counter to what you claim you were in favour of.
Proves that all along this line of argument was total bs?13 -
The sovereignty argument was the biggest red herring in the whole of the Brexit referendum. A bigger red herring even than my avatar. The fact that Brexiteers were happy for a govt clique, putting party interests before national interests, to stifle parliamentary democracy clearly demonstrates what a nonsense it was. Well done to those MPs who took back control.17
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Can't work out who's shit the bed harder, Southbank or the Daily Mail*. Someone on Twitter has pointed out that this might be the first ever example of a Mail headline breaking Betteridge's Law
*by 7am it'll be, of course, The England Cricket Team2
