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The influence of the EU on Britain.

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  • Callumcafc
    Callumcafc Posts: 63,787
    image
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,337
    Someone mock that up in time for morning except with Cook, Stoneman etc in the photos
  • se9addick
    se9addick Posts: 32,054
    That's brilliant!
  • Super_Eddie_Youds
    Super_Eddie_Youds Posts: 1,977
    edited December 2017
    Stig said:

    The sovereignty argument was the biggest red herring in the whole of the Brexit referendum. A bigger red herring even than my avatar. The fact that Brexiteers were happy for a govt clique, putting party interests before national interests, to stifle parliamentary democracy clearly demonstrates what a nonsense it was. Well done to those MPs who took back control.

    Superbly put. Anyone trotting out the sovereignty line and then arguing against parliamentary scrutiny is being disingenuous.
  • Fiiish
    Fiiish Posts: 7,998
    edited December 2017
    Callumcafc said:

    image

    Does Southbank work for the Mail? Looks identical to one of his increasingly hysterical posts.

    That looks like the newspaper front page equivalent of writing a hateful rant about your break-up on the billboard opposite your ex's flat. In your own shit.
  • cabbles
    cabbles Posts: 15,256
    Bloody hell. That paper. You’d think it was the mouthpiece of our Cabinet. Oh no wait, it is
  • Fiiish
    Fiiish Posts: 7,998
    cabbles said:

    Bloody hell. That paper. You’d think it was the mouthpiece of our Cabinet. Oh no wait, it is

    Close. It's more accurate to say the cabinet is the instrument of the Mail.
  • Chippycafc
    Chippycafc Posts: 14,154
    Fiiish said:

    Callumcafc said:

    image

    Does Southbank work for the Mail? Looks identical to one of his increasingly hysterical posts.

    That looks like the newspaper front page equivalent of writing a hateful rant about your break-up on the billboard opposite your ex's flat. In your own shit.
    You have spent the last 18 months calling out brexiter's for reading the mail, and many including me don't, yet you post their front page...you cant make this up;;;says it all.
  • se9addick
    se9addick Posts: 32,054
    Chippycafc said:

    Fiiish said:

    Callumcafc said:

    image

    Does Southbank work for the Mail? Looks identical to one of his increasingly hysterical posts.

    That looks like the newspaper front page equivalent of writing a hateful rant about your break-up on the billboard opposite your ex's flat. In your own shit.
    You have spent the last 18 months calling out brexiter's for reading the mail, and many including me don't, yet you post their front page...you cant make this up;;;says it all.
    You can, and you just did. Fiiish didn't post the Mail's front page.
  • Stig
    Stig Posts: 29,038
    se9addick said:

    Chippycafc said:

    Fiiish said:

    Callumcafc said:

    image

    Does Southbank work for the Mail? Looks identical to one of his increasingly hysterical posts.

    That looks like the newspaper front page equivalent of writing a hateful rant about your break-up on the billboard opposite your ex's flat. In your own shit.
    You have spent the last 18 months calling out brexiter's for reading the mail, and many including me don't, yet you post their front page...you cant make this up;;;says it all.
    You can, and you just did. Fiiish didn't post the Mail's front page.
    Yeah, but in the altered reality of the brexiteer anything can happen.

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  • randy andy
    randy andy Posts: 5,457
    edited December 2017
    We want a sovereign parliament
    We want a sovereign parliament

    No! Not like that!

    Any brexiter who claimed they voted leave to return sovereignty to parliament and is now angry and that parliament has enacted that very sovereignty is either a hypocrite or was lying about why they voted leave.
  • stonemuse
    stonemuse Posts: 34,016
    A viewpoint on the vote.

    https://brexittime.com/2017/12/13/parliament-takes-back-control-or-does-it/
  • McBobbin
    McBobbin Posts: 12,051
    Fiiish said:

    Callumcafc said:

    image

    Does Southbank work for the Mail? Looks identical to one of his increasingly hysterical posts.

    That looks like the newspaper front page equivalent of writing a hateful rant about your break-up on the billboard opposite your ex's flat. In your own shit.
    I'm stealing that. Still chuckling
  • McBobbin
    McBobbin Posts: 12,051
    Seems like Chelmsford MP Vicky Ford, former MEP who rebelled last time, got thoroughly rattled by the whip, dithered about the current vote, and was led through the government door by Philip Hammond. Not sure how I feel about that to be honest.
  • randy andy
    randy andy Posts: 5,457
    edited December 2017
    McBobbin said:

    Seems like Chelmsford MP Vicky Ford, former MEP who rebelled last time, got thoroughly rattled by the whip, dithered about the current vote, and was led through the government door by Philip Hammond. Not sure how I feel about that to be honest.

    You should feel disgusted at this perversion of democracy. All MPs should vote in the best interests of their constituents, not tow the party line. I've never liked the existence of party whips, but this goes beyond even that with a senior minister chaperoning her to ensure she voted the "right way".
  • McBobbin
    McBobbin Posts: 12,051
    randy andy said:

    McBobbin said:

    Seems like Chelmsford MP Vicky Ford, former MEP who rebelled last time, got thoroughly rattled by the whip, dithered about the current vote, and was led through the government door by Philip Hammond. Not sure how I feel about that to be honest.

    You should feel disgusted at this perversion of democracy. All MPs should vote both in the best interests of their constituents, not tow the party line. I've never liked the existence of party whips, but this goes beyond even that with a senior minister chaperoning her to ensure she voted the "right way".
    I tend to agree
  • NornIrishAddick
    NornIrishAddick Posts: 9,623
    edited December 2017
    randy andy said:

    McBobbin said:

    Seems like Chelmsford MP Vicky Ford, former MEP who rebelled last time, got thoroughly rattled by the whip, dithered about the current vote, and was led through the government door by Philip Hammond. Not sure how I feel about that to be honest.

    You should feel disgusted at this perversion of democracy. All MPs should vote both in the best interests of their constituents, not tow the party line. I've never liked the existence of party whips, but this goes beyond even that with a senior minister chaperoning her to ensure she voted the "right way".
    I blame Charles Stewart Parnell.
  • Valiantphil
    Valiantphil Posts: 6,410
    randy andy said:

    McBobbin said:

    Seems like Chelmsford MP Vicky Ford, former MEP who rebelled last time, got thoroughly rattled by the whip, dithered about the current vote, and was led through the government door by Philip Hammond. Not sure how I feel about that to be honest.

    You should feel disgusted at this perversion of democracy. All MPs should vote in the best interests of their constituents, not tow the party line. I've never liked the existence of party whips, but this goes beyond even that with a senior minister chaperoning her to ensure she voted the "right way".
    Perhaps he convinced her to vote in the best interests of her constituents - and she did !
  • randy andy
    randy andy Posts: 5,457
    Maybe the description of the series of events isn't being fair, as it certainly sounds far more like she was coerced into towing the party line than a friendly persuasive chat.

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  • Fiiish
    Fiiish Posts: 7,998
    edited December 2017
    Valiantphil said:

    randy andy said:

    McBobbin said:

    Seems like Chelmsford MP Vicky Ford, former MEP who rebelled last time, got thoroughly rattled by the whip, dithered about the current vote, and was led through the government door by Philip Hammond. Not sure how I feel about that to be honest.

    You should feel disgusted at this perversion of democracy. All MPs should vote in the best interests of their constituents, not tow the party line. I've never liked the existence of party whips, but this goes beyond even that with a senior minister chaperoning her to ensure she voted the "right way".
    Perhaps he convinced her to vote in the best interests of her constituents - and she did !
    Best interests and what a minority of her constituents voted for in a corrupt poll aren't the same thing.

    Can Brexiters stop pretending there is any mandate or legitimacy to this farce, or that Brexit will be of any benefit to the British people?
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    The referendum result is all the mandate brexiters need.
  • Fiiish
    Fiiish Posts: 7,998
    By that token I invoke the 1975 referendum as mandate for cancelling Brexit.
  • Valiantphil
    Valiantphil Posts: 6,410
    Do you mean when we voted to stay in the European Community (common market) 40+ years ago?
  • charltonkeston
    charltonkeston Posts: 7,369
    I don't read the Mail but todays headlines cheered me up no-end.
  • Southbank
    Southbank Posts: 5,259
    Super_Eddie_Youds said:

    Stig said:

    The sovereignty argument was the biggest red herring in the whole of the Brexit referendum. A bigger red herring even than my avatar. The fact that Brexiteers were happy for a govt clique, putting party interests before national interests, to stifle parliamentary democracy clearly demonstrates what a nonsense it was. Well done to those MPs who took back control.

    Superbly put. Anyone trotting out the sovereignty line and then arguing against parliamentary scrutiny is being disingenuous.
    When we Leavers talk about taking back control we mean from the EU bureaucracy. When you Remainers talk about taking back control you mean from the British people.

    That is the difference between us.
  • Bournemouth Addick
    Bournemouth Addick Posts: 16,284
    Southbank said:

    Super_Eddie_Youds said:

    Stig said:

    The sovereignty argument was the biggest red herring in the whole of the Brexit referendum. A bigger red herring even than my avatar. The fact that Brexiteers were happy for a govt clique, putting party interests before national interests, to stifle parliamentary democracy clearly demonstrates what a nonsense it was. Well done to those MPs who took back control.

    Superbly put. Anyone trotting out the sovereignty line and then arguing against parliamentary scrutiny is being disingenuous.
    When we Leavers talk about taking back control we mean from the EU bureaucracy. When you Remainers talk about taking back control you mean from the British people.

    That is the difference between us.
    Have I missed something, have you just been trolling on this thread or do you genuinely believe the nonsense you are now coming out with?

    Taking control away from the elected representatives of the British people and handing it over to a handful of Tory Cabinet Ministers might be a better way of defining your wishes it seems. I know which one I think is more democratic.
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    Southbank said:

    Super_Eddie_Youds said:

    Stig said:

    The sovereignty argument was the biggest red herring in the whole of the Brexit referendum. A bigger red herring even than my avatar. The fact that Brexiteers were happy for a govt clique, putting party interests before national interests, to stifle parliamentary democracy clearly demonstrates what a nonsense it was. Well done to those MPs who took back control.

    Superbly put. Anyone trotting out the sovereignty line and then arguing against parliamentary scrutiny is being disingenuous.
    When we Leavers talk about taking back control we mean from the EU bureaucracy. When you Remainers talk about taking back control you mean from the British people.

    That is the difference between us.
    I don't follow your point here.
    The British people have elected their MP's to presumably implement brexit (whatever that may be) for them. The MP's with the help of their bureaucrats are taking control. What is the difference?
  • Super_Eddie_Youds
    Super_Eddie_Youds Posts: 1,977
    Southbank said:

    Super_Eddie_Youds said:

    Stig said:

    The sovereignty argument was the biggest red herring in the whole of the Brexit referendum. A bigger red herring even than my avatar. The fact that Brexiteers were happy for a govt clique, putting party interests before national interests, to stifle parliamentary democracy clearly demonstrates what a nonsense it was. Well done to those MPs who took back control.

    Superbly put. Anyone trotting out the sovereignty line and then arguing against parliamentary scrutiny is being disingenuous.
    When we Leavers talk about taking back control we mean from the EU bureaucracy. When you Remainers talk about taking back control you mean from the British people.

    That is the difference between us.
    Well, no, you talk about that (and it makes very little sense, i may add). Despite proof that the UK was perfectly able to interpret European laws, and all while ignoring the role of elected MEPs.

    Personally I've never said that the EU was a paragon of democracy, but being so desperate to leave that you'd accept ministers having complete control over which laws to stay or change without any scrutiny is madness. Lobbyists would have been licking their lips at the idea.
  • crookester
    crookester Posts: 1,330
    I said this months ago but nobody on the leave side responded. If you don't want parliament to have a say in the exit terms then you're placing 100% faith in Davis and May to get a good deal. I have to wonder what they have done to prove worthy of such trust.
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