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The influence of the EU on Britain.

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  • blackpool72
    blackpool72 Posts: 23,684
    seth plum said:

    Southbank said:

    Covered End said:

    CharltonMadrid said:

    Some very interesting figures here:

    Migration figures: Highest number of EU nationals leaving UK in a decade - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43154308

    I've certainly met quite a lot of EU citizens who have left or are thinking about leaving the UK either because of the uncertainty or through feeling unwelcome there now, particularly teachers. I'm sure many people will be happy there are fewer foreign people in the UK but these are tax paying, contributing members of society in jobs where there is a real recruitment shortfall like teaching or the NHS.

    So in the year to September 2017 an additional 244,000 people have entered the UK (total net immigration) and unemployment is on the increase and yet farmers are complaining that there aren't enough immigrants to pick the crops.
    Hmm, you would have thought that with a quarter of million more people available it would be a resolvable issue.
    The sooner there are not enough people to pick the crops the faster they will find a way to mechanise this work and consign the low paid back breaking jobs to history.
    Alternatively we might starve.

    Or pay a proper wage
  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 50,632
    The chances of British workers filling the shortage of foreign workers in picking fruit and vegetables is I suspect practically nil.
  • blackpool72
    blackpool72 Posts: 23,684
    ShootersHillGuru said:

    The chances of British workers filling the shortage of foreign workers in picking fruit and vegetables is I suspect practically nil.

    Unless you pay them a proper wage.

    There are thousands of unemployed people out there looking for a job.

    Pay them a proper wage and they just might do it
  • Southbank
    Southbank Posts: 5,260
    ShootersHillGuru said:

    The chances of British workers filling the shortage of foreign workers in picking fruit and vegetables is I suspect practically nil.

    It is an industry that is more than ripe for mechanisation. This would be difficult but as long as there is cheap labour available it will not happen.
  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 52,018
    ShootersHillGuru said:

    The chances of British workers filling the shortage of foreign workers in picking fruit and vegetables is I suspect practically nil.

    If an individual is fit, healthy and capable of performing a job and the travelling is no more than 1hr 30m, then they should be obliged to take an offered job, in exchange for benefits (my view).
  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 50,632
    Farmland is often the arse end of nowhere. Lincolnshire is a good example. Not sure how we should expect people in enough numbers to get to and from somewhere like that on a daily basis. Many of those who might won’t have their own transport and of course public transport is in this instance just a joke.
    It’s nowhere near as easy saying people without work should be forced to take the jobs if they are available.
  • Chaz Hill
    Chaz Hill Posts: 5,217
    https://article.wn.com/view/2016/03/14/Owen_Paterson_stunned_Cabinet_with_OAP_fruitpicking_idea_Dav/

    Already been suggested this is a job for old age pensioners by this moron. Brexiters don’t you just love em!
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    Covered End said:

    seth plum said:

    Southbank said:

    Covered End said:

    CharltonMadrid said:

    Some very interesting figures here:

    Migration figures: Highest number of EU nationals leaving UK in a decade - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43154308

    I've certainly met quite a lot of EU citizens who have left or are thinking about leaving the UK either because of the uncertainty or through feeling unwelcome there now, particularly teachers. I'm sure many people will be happy there are fewer foreign people in the UK but these are tax paying, contributing members of society in jobs where there is a real recruitment shortfall like teaching or the NHS.

    So in the year to September 2017 an additional 244,000 people have entered the UK (total net immigration) and unemployment is on the increase and yet farmers are complaining that there aren't enough immigrants to pick the crops.
    Hmm, you would have thought that with a quarter of million more people available it would be a resolvable issue.
    The sooner there are not enough people to pick the crops the faster they will find a way to mechanise this work and consign the low paid back breaking jobs to history.
    Alternatively we might starve.

    A bit unlikely with record obesity levels.
    Yeah.
    We consume too much.
    Dig for victory might come back.
  • guinnessaddick
    guinnessaddick Posts: 28,671
  • Cordoban Addick
    Cordoban Addick Posts: 5,448
    The Organiser said:

    Red_in_SE8 said:

    CharltonMadrid said:

    Some very interesting figures here:

    Migration figures: Highest number of EU nationals leaving UK in a decade - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43154308

    I've certainly met quite a lot of EU citizens who have left or are thinking about leaving the UK either because of the uncertainty or through feeling unwelcome there now, particularly teachers. I'm sure many people will be happy there are fewer foreign people in the UK but these are tax paying, contributing members of society in jobs where there is a real recruitment shortfall like teaching or the NHS.

    In 5 years time there will be a lot of Brexit voters lying in their care home beds covered in their own shit as a direct result of their vote to leave the EU but they won't mind because in their grubby filthy hands they will be clasping a blue passport!
    That doesn’t already happen?
    Should read: "lying in their own bed in the community covered in their own shit".

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  • randy andy
    randy andy Posts: 5,457
    blackpool72 said:

    ShootersHillGuru said:

    The chances of British workers filling the shortage of foreign workers in picking fruit and vegetables is I suspect practically nil.

    Unless you pay them a proper wage.

    There are thousands of unemployed people out there looking for a job.

    Pay them a proper wage and they just might do it
    This simply isn't true, there were reports a few years ago when the number of Poles started to fall of farmers panicking. They were offering the equivalent of £25,000 a year to pick fruit and had no takers. Local unemployed would prefer to sign on than do the work.
  • NornIrishAddick
    NornIrishAddick Posts: 9,623
    Covered End said:

    ShootersHillGuru said:

    The chances of British workers filling the shortage of foreign workers in picking fruit and vegetables is I suspect practically nil.

    If an individual is fit, healthy and capable of performing a job and the travelling is no more than 1hr 30m, then they should be obliged to take an offered job, in exchange for benefits (my view).
    Happily, there's absolutely no evidence of the UK Government's existing system of determining that people are fit for work is in any way flawed or controversial.


    Historically, as I understand it, the systems in place have disadvantaged those willing to do seasonal work, I can only imagine how the additional delays that seem to be built into the Universal Credit processes would impact on those involved.
  • Fiiish
    Fiiish Posts: 7,998
    "Nigel Farage is furious about talk that the UK could end up being in the Customs Union."

    Days before the referendum: Nigel Farage "Of course no one is talking about leaving the Customs Union."
  • TellyTubby
    TellyTubby Posts: 3,550
    randy andy said:

    blackpool72 said:

    ShootersHillGuru said:

    The chances of British workers filling the shortage of foreign workers in picking fruit and vegetables is I suspect practically nil.

    Unless you pay them a proper wage.

    There are thousands of unemployed people out there looking for a job.

    Pay them a proper wage and they just might do it
    This simply isn't true, there were reports a few years ago when the number of Poles started to fall of farmers panicking. They were offering the equivalent of £25,000 a year to pick fruit and had no takers. Local unemployed would prefer to sign on than do the work.
    Hmmm. Do you happen to have a source for this 25k claim?

    I can categorically assure you that fruit picking near me is not going to pay anything like that. You might pick up a few hours every so often during the season and hope that the weather holds. There is no shortage of pickers I know of and no immigrant farm labour in the immediate area.

    I have no doubt that many areas rely on immigrant labour almost totally. Try asking if any of them get paid 25k. I doubt any get more than 15k and many much less.

    Reduced numbers of Poles isn't surprising given their growing home economy and drop in sterling, but you say this was pre-Brexit vote so why were they fewer then?
  • cabbles
    cabbles Posts: 15,257
    The thing about having the opportunity to have politicians directly accountable to us is that ultimately, it’s absolutely irrelevant given how shit the majority are

    We just flip flop from one crap administration to the next. Who cares if a bunch of unelected bureaucrats in Brussels make our laws versus the wallies that we can elect back home. For me it’s all much of a muchness. Constitutionally it’s important to have principles such as accountability etc, in reality, it makes no difference

    This might seem an odd statement but I truly don’t get this taking back control. What control do we as citizens truly have. Even when you elect whoever in on their manifestos they sometimes can’t deliver or back track
  • randy andy
    randy andy Posts: 5,457
    TellyTubby said:

    randy andy said:

    blackpool72 said:

    ShootersHillGuru said:

    The chances of British workers filling the shortage of foreign workers in picking fruit and vegetables is I suspect practically nil.

    Unless you pay them a proper wage.

    There are thousands of unemployed people out there looking for a job.

    Pay them a proper wage and they just might do it
    This simply isn't true, there were reports a few years ago when the number of Poles started to fall of farmers panicking. They were offering the equivalent of £25,000 a year to pick fruit and had no takers. Local unemployed would prefer to sign on than do the work.
    Hmmm. Do you happen to have a source for this 25k claim?

    I can categorically assure you that fruit picking near me is not going to pay anything like that. You might pick up a few hours every so often during the season and hope that the weather holds. There is no shortage of pickers I know of and no immigrant farm labour in the immediate area.

    I have no doubt that many areas rely on immigrant labour almost totally. Try asking if any of them get paid 25k. I doubt any get more than 15k and many much less.

    Reduced numbers of Poles isn't surprising given their growing home economy and drop in sterling, but you say this was pre-Brexit vote so why were they fewer then?
    Well it was an interview I heard with a farmer on radio 4 one morning. Obviously it's seasonal work, hence I put "equivalent" in there, but it was a number of years ago and the farmer was offering an hourly rate that would equate to £25k a year and couldn't get enough pickers.
  • stonemuse
    stonemuse Posts: 34,016
    TellyTubby said:

    randy andy said:

    blackpool72 said:

    ShootersHillGuru said:

    The chances of British workers filling the shortage of foreign workers in picking fruit and vegetables is I suspect practically nil.

    Unless you pay them a proper wage.

    There are thousands of unemployed people out there looking for a job.

    Pay them a proper wage and they just might do it
    This simply isn't true, there were reports a few years ago when the number of Poles started to fall of farmers panicking. They were offering the equivalent of £25,000 a year to pick fruit and had no takers. Local unemployed would prefer to sign on than do the work.
    Hmmm. Do you happen to have a source for this 25k claim?

    I can categorically assure you that fruit picking near me is not going to pay anything like that. You might pick up a few hours every so often during the season and hope that the weather holds. There is no shortage of pickers I know of and no immigrant farm labour in the immediate area.

    I have no doubt that many areas rely on immigrant labour almost totally. Try asking if any of them get paid 25k. I doubt any get more than 15k and many much less.

    Reduced numbers of Poles isn't surprising given their growing home economy and drop in sterling, but you say this was pre-Brexit vote so why were they fewer then?
    I would be amazed if the wages were anywhere near 25k. It almost matches the average UK wage.
  • Chippycafc
    Chippycafc Posts: 14,154
    ShootersHillGuru said:

    Chippycafc said:

    ShootersHillGuru said:

    Chippycafc said:

    ShootersHillGuru said:

    Chippycafc said:

    ShootersHillGuru said:

    Chippycafc said:

    seth plum said:

    There was an ex ROI foreign minister on the wireless today who seemed to suggest that one solution to the border issue is for The Republic to (kind of) leave the EU to fit in with the brexit decision. If I understood it correctly, he was saying the for the Republic of Ireland their economy was much more dependent on the actions of Britain rather than Brussels, and really the Republic have no choice but to be prepared to be dragged away from the EU because of the brexit vote in the UK.
    Anybody else hear that, and has a handle on it?

    A few months ago on LBC (ian dale) an irish minister in sweden at the time stated that 75% of their exports particularly agriculture was to the UK... Note : -
    ministers mouth not google, or guardian as they wouldn't carry that story. So i guess it would be in their interests. If not they could always distance themselves from us as per my solution the other day.
    Not sure I understand what you are saying (not for the first time either). If I’m reading your post correctly. You may be guilty of some arse upwards thinking. Are you saying it’s a significant fact that the bulk of the ROI trade is with the UK and therefore a good idea for them to be more aligned with us than the 27 ? In which case as the bulk of the UK’s trade is with the 27 why is it a bad idea for us to not be aligned with the eu ?

    I am not surprised you don't understand, we are poles apart regarding interlect particularly in the real world not charlton life world. Read both posts again and i will get my 7 year old grand daughter explain it to you if it's too difficult.
    Nope. I’ve reread it and it’s still so grammatically poor as to be virtually meaningless and certainly ambiguous. I’m sorry that you feel we are poles apart intellectually. Might I suggest you try evening classes.

    At work we would be screaming BASICS meaning, you must be a bit dense not to understand it. I showed this to my colleagues last night and posted seth's and my reply. Their reply was, no wonder they support charlton. I hope i don't have to explain that. Blackboard and chalk ready....
    Is this one of your very rich company owning colleagues, German colleagues, academic colleagues or just a workmate sticking a rivet through a sheet of galvanised steel ?

    I suggest before you start lecturing anyone on their being dense you pay some attention to the spelling and grammatical structure of your posts. It really would help the rest of us understand what you are trying to say.

    I might add that if I and others don’t understand what you are saying then that’s your fault not ours. Berating us for not being able to pick our way through your gibberish is really rather muggy.

    Also you mean others on your side....That goes two ways...I will leave to work out that gibberish.
    You’re doing this on purpose now aren’t you. Are you completely unable to post anything at all that anyone other than your work colleagues can understand.

    I would actually like to know what you think but there’s no way of finding out by reading your illiterate outpourings.

    No... Cordy told you weeks ago, i am just playing with you.
  • randy andy
    randy andy Posts: 5,457
    stonemuse said:

    TellyTubby said:

    randy andy said:

    blackpool72 said:

    ShootersHillGuru said:

    The chances of British workers filling the shortage of foreign workers in picking fruit and vegetables is I suspect practically nil.

    Unless you pay them a proper wage.

    There are thousands of unemployed people out there looking for a job.

    Pay them a proper wage and they just might do it
    This simply isn't true, there were reports a few years ago when the number of Poles started to fall of farmers panicking. They were offering the equivalent of £25,000 a year to pick fruit and had no takers. Local unemployed would prefer to sign on than do the work.
    Hmmm. Do you happen to have a source for this 25k claim?

    I can categorically assure you that fruit picking near me is not going to pay anything like that. You might pick up a few hours every so often during the season and hope that the weather holds. There is no shortage of pickers I know of and no immigrant farm labour in the immediate area.

    I have no doubt that many areas rely on immigrant labour almost totally. Try asking if any of them get paid 25k. I doubt any get more than 15k and many much less.

    Reduced numbers of Poles isn't surprising given their growing home economy and drop in sterling, but you say this was pre-Brexit vote so why were they fewer then?
    I would be amazed if the wages were anywhere near 25k. It almost matches the average UK wage.
    It was seasonal work, so it was the equivalent of £25k. Just did a rough calculation and the farmer would need to offer £12 an hour for it to be the equivalent of £25k, and if the farmer is to be believed, local unemployed weren't interested at £12/hr and he was reliant on immigrant labour.
  • Chaz Hill
    Chaz Hill Posts: 5,217
    edited February 2018
    guinnessaddick said:

    Great casting. Especially, Moggie on guitar dictating the tune and Boris trying to hand over the steering wheel as it all goes tits up.

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  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    It looks like today the Tory pendulum has swung towards no customs union, which means border checks I would've thought.
  • Chaz Hill
    Chaz Hill Posts: 5,217
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/feb/23/eu-michael-gove-plastic-straw-ban

    Poor Gove. Surprise, surprise not as smart as he thinks he is!
  • Chippycafc
    Chippycafc Posts: 14,154
    Chaz Hill said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/feb/23/eu-michael-gove-plastic-straw-ban

    Poor Gove. Surprise, surprise not as smart as he thinks he is!

    Guardian hey... The remainers daily mail.
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,338
    Nah, there's no equivalent. Maybe Red in SE8's posts
  • Chippycafc
    Chippycafc Posts: 14,154
    Leuth said:

    Nah, there's no equivalent. Maybe Red in SE8's posts

    Stick around a bit and go back 2000 pages its quoted every day.
  • Chippycafc
    Chippycafc Posts: 14,154
    Leuth said:

    Nah, there's no equivalent. Maybe Red in SE8's posts

    Oh btw you may have to explain your response to two posters. But i understood.
  • randy andy
    randy andy Posts: 5,457
    Typical anti-EU rubbish. There's absolutely nothing stopping us banning plastic straws if we want to and Gove well knows that ((or is an incompetent moron), it's just a dog whistle to the daily mail reading, "how dare the EU interfere" brigade.
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    edited February 2018
    It is amusing how Gove tried to diss the EU over plastic straw banning when they are way ahead of him and exposed his plain ignorance.
  • hudson-son-son
    hudson-son-son Posts: 2,645
    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/tony-blair-brexit-second-referendum-jeremy-corbyn-labour-customs-union-a8224861.html

    The difference in that to the unclarity by both the current leaders is rather staggering. I'm sure the response will be "Iraq bla bla bla" but it's a good read.
  • TellyTubby
    TellyTubby Posts: 3,550
    hudson-son-son said:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/tony-blair-brexit-second-referendum-jeremy-corbyn-labour-customs-union-a8224861.html

    The difference in that to the unclarity by both the current leaders is rather staggering. I'm sure the response will be "Iraq bla bla bla" but it's a good read.

    There are half facts that misrepresent the reality and claims that are simply not true because the report is representing the 'elite'. Yup them again.

    The potentially legitimate argument for another referendum fails to address the effect the knowledge of a commitment to this would have on current talks with the EU. I have no doubt that this is the reason for publicly calling for it, undermine the talks and force us all to vote to stay in.

    Anyone reading this objectively would surely acknowledge this. I don't expect too many people on here to agree with me, but then I'm used to that☺.
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