The influence of the EU on Britain.
Comments
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Is it up for grabs?se9addick said:
Well Brexit means leaving the EU, no more and no less as that is what was on the ballot paper.seth plum said:There are a lot of people who will say that having no brexit (whatever on earth that actually means) would be the biggest betrayal of 'democracy ' ( meaning their specialized definition of what democracy is) ever.
That is the Elephant in the room like it or not. Those people can manipulate enough people to kick up enough of a stink that some kind of brexit has to happen.
I have said it enough times, give 'em blue passports and say 'there you go brexit is delivered' and then at least the UK and the EU can carry on as before.
If any brexiters object to that simple low cost solution to this whole mess, then they can be challenged to define brexit and provide details as to how it will happen.
It is obvious that they don't know either what brexit means of how to do it, hence the whinging about how the EU and remainer people aren't doing it for them.
Brexit means Jack shit.
Staying in SM/CU/Erasmus/Euratom and anything else that we are currently signed up to which we can still be part of whilst not a member is completely up for grabs.
I don't see how any of it is if the UK is leaving.
Not so much up for grabs as out of our grasp forever.2 -
Up for grabs so long as we don't make it a red line (to not have them) in any negotiations. We wouldn't be that stupid though would we?seth plum said:
Is it up for grabs?se9addick said:
Well Brexit means leaving the EU, no more and no less as that is what was on the ballot paper.seth plum said:There are a lot of people who will say that having no brexit (whatever on earth that actually means) would be the biggest betrayal of 'democracy ' ( meaning their specialized definition of what democracy is) ever.
That is the Elephant in the room like it or not. Those people can manipulate enough people to kick up enough of a stink that some kind of brexit has to happen.
I have said it enough times, give 'em blue passports and say 'there you go brexit is delivered' and then at least the UK and the EU can carry on as before.
If any brexiters object to that simple low cost solution to this whole mess, then they can be challenged to define brexit and provide details as to how it will happen.
It is obvious that they don't know either what brexit means of how to do it, hence the whinging about how the EU and remainer people aren't doing it for them.
Brexit means Jack shit.
Staying in SM/CU/Erasmus/Euratom and anything else that we are currently signed up to which we can still be part of whilst not a member is completely up for grabs.
I don't see how any of it is if the UK is leaving.
Not so much up for grabs as out of our grasp forever.2 -
Who'd've thunk it?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44230865
Solutions? Massive investment in technology rather than relying on cheap labour might be a start?1 -
And freedom of movement will pretty much trump any aspirations we have in that regard.se9addick said:
Well Brexit means leaving the EU, no more and no less as that is what was on the ballot paper.seth plum said:There are a lot of people who will say that having no brexit (whatever on earth that actually means) would be the biggest betrayal of 'democracy ' ( meaning their specialized definition of what democracy is) ever.
That is the Elephant in the room like it or not. Those people can manipulate enough people to kick up enough of a stink that some kind of brexit has to happen.
I have said it enough times, give 'em blue passports and say 'there you go brexit is delivered' and then at least the UK and the EU can carry on as before.
If any brexiters object to that simple low cost solution to this whole mess, then they can be challenged to define brexit and provide details as to how it will happen.
It is obvious that they don't know either what brexit means of how to do it, hence the whinging about how the EU and remainer people aren't doing it for them.
Brexit means Jack shit.
Staying in SM/CU/Erasmus/Euratom and anything else that we are currently signed up to which we can still be part of whilst not a member is completely up for grabs.
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Seems to me that Corbyn totally mashed May in PMQ's today over brexit.
Yet again.0 -
I think Corbyn would be very content letting the Tories achieve a brexit of any flavour and then have the chance to pick up the pieces without any of the blame.2
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I agree that the Labour position is poor, but getting better, the undermining accusation does not stand up in my view.se9addick said:
I thought it a bit rich coming from him, make no mistake he's part of the Brexit "shambles", as evidenced by him trying to undermine the EEA amendment to the Brexit Bill.seth plum said:Seems to me that Corbyn totally mashed May in PMQ's today over brexit.
Yet again.
However, crucially, as Corbyn pointed out, it is this government (supposedly) who are doing the negotiating, the spotlight on this issue is firmly on May, not Corbyn.1 -
Surely telling his MPs not to vote for an amendment that would see us stay in the EEA (and offer us a route out of this madness) is undermining a "soft" Brexit?seth plum said:
I agree that the Labour position is poor, but getting better, the undermining accusation does not stand up in my view.se9addick said:
I thought it a bit rich coming from him, make no mistake he's part of the Brexit "shambles", as evidenced by him trying to undermine the EEA amendment to the Brexit Bill.seth plum said:Seems to me that Corbyn totally mashed May in PMQ's today over brexit.
Yet again.
However, crucially, as Corbyn pointed out, it is this government (supposedly) who are doing the negotiating, the spotlight on this issue is firmly on May, not Corbyn.3 -
I sort of agree but Starmer is saying they want something better than the EEA. Hence why they are not voting for it.se9addick said:
Surely telling his MPs not to vote for an amendment that would see us stay in the EEA (and offer us a route out of this madness) is undermining a "soft" Brexit?seth plum said:
I agree that the Labour position is poor, but getting better, the undermining accusation does not stand up in my view.se9addick said:
I thought it a bit rich coming from him, make no mistake he's part of the Brexit "shambles", as evidenced by him trying to undermine the EEA amendment to the Brexit Bill.seth plum said:Seems to me that Corbyn totally mashed May in PMQ's today over brexit.
Yet again.
However, crucially, as Corbyn pointed out, it is this government (supposedly) who are doing the negotiating, the spotlight on this issue is firmly on May, not Corbyn.
It is a bit like seeing out a 2-2 draw that keeps you up only to possibly find that the scores change in another match. Do you go for the win whilst risking the defeat!
OK nothing like that really.2 - Sponsored links:
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He'd struggle to pay for any of his policies with the economy in tatters. He needs to stop thinking about his job, and trying to prevent the country going tits up. that should be every MPs focusShootersHillGuru said:I think Corbyn would be very content letting the Tories achieve a brexit of any flavour and then have the chance to pick up the pieces without any of the blame.
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It makes sense for Labour to oppose any Tory deal.
Brexit vote was conceived by Tories.
Poorly worded referendum by Tories.
Incomptently given a 50/50 choice by the Tories.
Triggered A50 despite no plan, by the Tories.
Endangering NI peace process by the Tories.
Turning up to EU talks ill-prepared, by the Tories.
Arguing amongst themselves, the Tories.
Spending 2 years and still have no coherent plan, the Tories.
Taking us to the precepice of no deal, the Tories.
Let them be seen to be wholly responsible for the clusterfuck!8 -
And yet amongst all that “clusterfuck” There is no clear alternative being offered by Corbyn !harveys_gardener said:It makes sense for Labour to oppose any Tory deal.
Brexit vote was conceived by Tories.
Poorly worded referendum by Tories.
Incomptently given a 50/50 choice by the Tories.
Triggered A50 despite no plan, by the Tories.
Endangering NI peace process by the Tories.
Turning up to EU talks ill-prepared, by the Tories.
Arguing amongst themselves, the Tories.
Spending 2 years and still have no coherent plan, the Tories.
Taking us to the precepice of no deal, the Tories.
Let them be seen to be wholly responsible for the clusterfuck!
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That's the whole point. If they do the Tories, Mail, Sun, Express, Times et all will shoot it down and they will share the blame because their alternative, which they won't be able to test, wasn't good enough. Best to keep powder dry.ShootersHillGuru said:
And yet amongst all that “clusterfuck” There is no clear alternative being offered by Corbyn !harveys_gardener said:It makes sense for Labour to oppose any Tory deal.
Brexit vote was conceived by Tories.
Poorly worded referendum by Tories.
Incomptently given a 50/50 choice by the Tories.
Triggered A50 despite no plan, by the Tories.
Endangering NI peace process by the Tories.
Turning up to EU talks ill-prepared, by the Tories.
Arguing amongst themselves, the Tories.
Spending 2 years and still have no coherent plan, the Tories.
Taking us to the precepice of no deal, the Tories.
Let them be seen to be wholly responsible for the clusterfuck!0 -
I imagine it is because no clear alternative actually exists.ShootersHillGuru said:
And yet amongst all that “clusterfuck” There is no clear alternative being offered by Corbyn !harveys_gardener said:It makes sense for Labour to oppose any Tory deal.
Brexit vote was conceived by Tories.
Poorly worded referendum by Tories.
Incomptently given a 50/50 choice by the Tories.
Triggered A50 despite no plan, by the Tories.
Endangering NI peace process by the Tories.
Turning up to EU talks ill-prepared, by the Tories.
Arguing amongst themselves, the Tories.
Spending 2 years and still have no coherent plan, the Tories.
Taking us to the precepice of no deal, the Tories.
Let them be seen to be wholly responsible for the clusterfuck!
The Tories plus the so called will of the people have decided on this divorce, all Labour can hope to do at best is lamely help to decide who has the Joan Armatrading Album, and who has the Eagles one.
What I would prefer is that they are the opposition, sod suggesting any alternative and put the magnifying glass on what the Tories and brexiters do, simply because brexit is not their call as things stand.
If an Election changes the landscape it is then they can propose what to do, in fact all they need to repeat until then is that they won't feck up as badly as the Tories and leave it there, brexit means brexit style.1 -
If only. My view is that Corbyn is delighted with any sort of Brexit. Given the reasons you posted. Labour should be championing a clear. SM and CU red line. They are not.harveys_gardener said:
That's the whole point. If they do the Tories, Mail, Sun, Express, Times et all will shoot it down. Best to keep powder dry.ShootersHillGuru said:
And yet amongst all that “clusterfuck” There is no clear alternative being offered by Corbyn !harveys_gardener said:It makes sense for Labour to oppose any Tory deal.
Brexit vote was conceived by Tories.
Poorly worded referendum by Tories.
Incomptently given a 50/50 choice by the Tories.
Triggered A50 despite no plan, by the Tories.
Endangering NI peace process by the Tories.
Turning up to EU talks ill-prepared, by the Tories.
Arguing amongst themselves, the Tories.
Spending 2 years and still have no coherent plan, the Tories.
Taking us to the precepice of no deal, the Tories.
Let them be seen to be wholly responsible for the clusterfuck!
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Then surely Starmer is being as delusional as May as there isnt really anything better than EEA on the table - remember it isn't just about the solution that our political leaders come up with but what the EU will actually accept.Cordoban Addick said:
I sort of agree but Starmer is saying they want something better than the EEA. Hence why they are not voting for it.se9addick said:
Surely telling his MPs not to vote for an amendment that would see us stay in the EEA (and offer us a route out of this madness) is undermining a "soft" Brexit?seth plum said:
I agree that the Labour position is poor, but getting better, the undermining accusation does not stand up in my view.se9addick said:
I thought it a bit rich coming from him, make no mistake he's part of the Brexit "shambles", as evidenced by him trying to undermine the EEA amendment to the Brexit Bill.seth plum said:Seems to me that Corbyn totally mashed May in PMQ's today over brexit.
Yet again.
However, crucially, as Corbyn pointed out, it is this government (supposedly) who are doing the negotiating, the spotlight on this issue is firmly on May, not Corbyn.
It is a bit like seeing out a 2-2 draw that keeps you up only to possibly find that the scores change in another match. Do you go for the win whilst risking the defeat!
OK nothing like that really.3 -
I think there is some truth in this. The problem is, the cabinet is split between those who want a soft Brexit and those who want a Hard one. How can you negotiate when your position is so polarised. WHat is it you are trying to achieve. We are seeing the answer to that......you can't.harveys_gardener said:It makes sense for Labour to oppose any Tory deal.
Brexit vote was conceived by Tories.
Poorly worded referendum by Tories.
Incomptently given a 50/50 choice by the Tories.
Triggered A50 despite no plan, by the Tories.
Endangering NI peace process by the Tories.
Turning up to EU talks ill-prepared, by the Tories.
Arguing amongst themselves, the Tories.
Spending 2 years and still have no coherent plan, the Tories.
Taking us to the precepice of no deal, the Tories.
Let them be seen to be wholly responsible for the clusterfuck!0 -
There are now at least 50% of the British population that would now vote for scrapping Brexit. Labour should be ashamed that they as the only opposition to this government are not offering that alternative to the electorate. Instead Corbyn is creeping around the most important issue this country has faced in a generation playing party politics looking to snide his way into office.
His latest offering has split the PLP and I hope those that oppose him have the bollox to stand up to his three line whip. The man is a national menace.11 - Sponsored links:
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Lovely story. Is it a brexit analogy ?MuttleyCAFC said:.
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No I posted it on the wrong thread!!!0
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I thought so but just wanted to embarrass you ;0)MuttleyCAFC said:No I posted it on the wrong thread!!!
It is a lovely story though.
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People talk about job losses here after brexit but the same people post everyday, all day. Perhaps some of you need to get of your arse and do something and make a contribution.2
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like you and me? I think a few are retired to be fair!0
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Are you asking/expecting me to make brexit happen?Chippycafc said:People talk about job losses here after brexit but the same people post everyday, all day. Perhaps some of you need to get of your arse and do something and make a contribution.
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He is asking you to get off your backside and work your socks off! Like he does!
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Oh.
I have 44 years of straight National Insurance contributions made whilst working, and paid my taxes in full.
I must be a lazy git who needs to get off my arse then.2 -
I would rather Labour were working to stop the clusterfuck from happening in the first place rather than going for the "not my fault guv" defence when everything goes to shit.harveys_gardener said:It makes sense for Labour to oppose any Tory deal.
Brexit vote was conceived by Tories.
Poorly worded referendum by Tories.
Incomptently given a 50/50 choice by the Tories.
Triggered A50 despite no plan, by the Tories.
Endangering NI peace process by the Tories.
Turning up to EU talks ill-prepared, by the Tories.
Arguing amongst themselves, the Tories.
Spending 2 years and still have no coherent plan, the Tories.
Taking us to the precepice of no deal, the Tories.
Let them be seen to be wholly responsible for the clusterfuck!1
