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The influence of the EU on Britain.
Comments
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Sure. But not on this thread, and not today. Because this thread is about the harm of Brexit, and I'm off to a march right now.Chippycafc said:
Good to see finally you have concerns about British jobs...It would be great to hear your tales of being on a picket lines or rallying to support fireman, dockers, miners, nurses, doctors, teachers, lorry drivers, railway men, GCHQ staff to name but a few...and the financial losses you received by supporting these people...or your marches to Parliament square rallying for the injustice of Austerity, or did your concern only start in recent times.Chizz said:
Ok. Thanks for being honest and sharing the fact you cannot provide any reason that Airbus would consider leaving the UK, other than due to Brexit.Chippycafc said:
No..I am not their managing director or chief executive and neither are you...but many companies move about, can you give me a reason why they did prior to Brexit.Chizz said:
Can you give any reason - other than the effects of Brexit - that Airbus would consider moving from the UK in the next year?Chippycafc said:
They are another outfit who will wait for brexit and make that as an excuse to leave. Others will do it too, who were going to do it anyway. Thousands of companies have shut and moved base for lots of years, shame that some are only concerned about the last two years, and genuinely didn't give a toss about peoples jobs prior to this.Howells said:
I can picture it now.randy andy said:
What a load of rubbish. Airbus build their parts all over the EU mostly for historic political reasons. That is only cost effective with zero tariffs and borders As soon as it take more time and money than the pure transportation costs then it's no longer efficient for Airbus. Why would they produce a wing in Wales only to have to held up at customs and have to pay to get it to France to attach to the fuselage?Howells said:
Poor form from a firm as huge as Airbus are.
If they are honestly suggesting that they haven't sought any solution or contingency plan over the last 12 months then I find that very hard to believe.
Do we really think the bods sitting at airbus HQ have been sitting around twiddling their thumbs waiting to see if a deal will be made with the EU? Unlikely.
No doubting that jobs and suppliers COULD be affected but it would be simply incompetent of airbus to leave it down to UK govt before acting themselves.
It quite clearly is project fear despite what they say.
And using so many thousands of jobs as a bargaining chip on behalf of their beloved eu is low.
Airbus have ploughed so much money into the a380 which is now faltering whilst boeing are powering on with the 787.
Whatever the fate of airbus UK the positive is the post-brexit decision from the Don and Boeing to move their European headquarters to the UK in 2016.
They aren't worried about brexit and with good reason.
If you think their concern in that situation is purely their love of the EU then you are delusional, and they would be mad to base part of their supply chain in a "no deal" UK.
They turn up at the channel tunnel, and a burly fella with a uniform rocks up...
'ere mate, where do you think you're going with that trent 900'5 -
Bloody hell, the state of thatAlgarveaddick said:
So I see.Chippycafc said:
Yes see that there's another dopes march taking place alsoAlgarveaddick said:
I would do - but it's been hijacked by far right activists...Chippycafc said:Morning everyone......Sun is shining, weekends here, fridge full of beer and wine...go out and enjoy today "St Patriots Day"
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Make Britain Great Again! Lovely timing on that, just as the entire globe wants Trump and his entire cabinet publicly disembowelled1
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You need to take a little distance when thinking about Trump. Through this migrant row he has successfully got the Democrats to be seen as the party of illegal inmigration- which is as unpopular in the US as it is in Europe.Leuth said:Make Britain Great Again! Lovely timing on that, just as the entire globe wants Trump and his entire cabinet publicly disembowelled
I suspect the row has improved his chances of re-election, like it or not.
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Of course it's just project fear. Everything's going to be wonderful after brexit. Nothing can go wrong now.Bournemouth Addick said:I'm reading today that there were 117,000 jobs linked to Airbus in 2015 which contributed £7.8b to the economy. I knew it was a substantial player in our economy but that scale surprised me.
I understand the desire to right off their Risk Assessment as more 'Project Fear'. Indeed it seems reading this...
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/airbus-brexit-staff-concerns-uk-investment/
...there are Airbus employees still taking the Chippy approach and ignoring anything they don't like the sound of. Let's hope they're right tbh but if the noises coming out of Airbus, BMW and other large employers are backed up with, (even scaled back) action over the winter we are going to see the whole house of cards start to look very shaky.
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I think you've confused your echo chamber with the entire globe. Easily done.Leuth said:Make Britain Great Again! Lovely timing on that, just as the entire globe wants Trump and his entire cabinet publicly disembowelled
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nope......only because Ì have a life & can't be arsed to spend hours looking for a quote.....and I have no idea how to post a link to it even if I did. I know he said it (on at least 2 occaisons) 1 at a press conference somewhere as I remember seeing it on the news. I think its rather well known that a fully non-EU country (ie, not a Norway) can't be a member of the single market & the customs union. The single market brings with it free movement of trade AND PEOPLE.....which is the main reason why I voted leave & the customs union means you can't set up your own trade deals. If these 2 policies could be changed to allow us access to free trade with the EU AND other countries AND allow us to control our own immigration policy then I'd be happy to stay in the EU.......but they can't & they wont & so like a Dragon.....I'm out !!Bournemouth Addick said:
Sorry to raise this again @golfaddick but any luck with sourcing your claim please?Bournemouth Addick said:
Apologies if I've missed this in the intervening pages of why we shouldn't be doing what we can to stop small children drowning @golfaddick but have you got a source for your claim that Barnier has said multiple times we have to leave the single market on leaving the EU?aliwibble said:
Reposting to fix the knock on effect of Golfie's broken quotingBournemouth Addick said:
Has he?golfaddick said:yes, just post "soundbites" that in themselves don't prove anything. All taken out of context & simply shows that a couple of leavers think that we could follow the Norway model. By leaving the EU we HAVE to leave the single market / free movement of trade & people. Michel Barnier has said this on numerous occaisons.
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My echo chamber, which believes in not locking up kids for no reason, versus your echo chamber, which does?Stu_of_Kunming said:
I think you've confused your echo chamber with the entire globe. Easily done.Leuth said:Make Britain Great Again! Lovely timing on that, just as the entire globe wants Trump and his entire cabinet publicly disembowelled
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Norway is a member of the single market: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36270203
Not a member of the customs union though: http://ukandeu.ac.uk/fact-figures/is-norway-in-the-customs-union/ however, tariff free goods do move between Norway and the EU.
You have clearly misunderstood whatever you thought you heard, which is why there's no record of it. As I posted this time two years ago, Norway pay but have no say.
What goods are you so desperate to have access to that we don't have now?4 -
He's successfully got the Republicans to be seen as the party of comic-book evil. They will not be re-elected.Southbank said:
You need to take a little distance when thinking about Trump. Through this migrant row he has successfully got the Democrats to be seen as the party of illegal inmigration- which is as unpopular in the US as it is in Europe.Leuth said:Make Britain Great Again! Lovely timing on that, just as the entire globe wants Trump and his entire cabinet publicly disembowelled
I suspect the row has improved his chances of re-election, like it or not.0 - Sponsored links:
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I'm not a Trump supporter by any stretch, but I accept that the entire globe doesn't want him publicly disembowelled.Leuth said:
My echo chamber, which believes in not locking up kids for no reason, versus your echo chamber, which does?Stu_of_Kunming said:
I think you've confused your echo chamber with the entire globe. Easily done.Leuth said:Make Britain Great Again! Lovely timing on that, just as the entire globe wants Trump and his entire cabinet publicly disembowelled
You're also conveniently forgetting that this was going on long before Trump came to power.0 -
Maybe not where you live in multicultural London, but his constituency in the US is a different matter.Leuth said:
He's successfully got the Republicans to be seen as the party of comic-book evil. They will not be re-elected.Southbank said:
You need to take a little distance when thinking about Trump. Through this migrant row he has successfully got the Democrats to be seen as the party of illegal inmigration- which is as unpopular in the US as it is in Europe.Leuth said:Make Britain Great Again! Lovely timing on that, just as the entire globe wants Trump and his entire cabinet publicly disembowelled
I suspect the row has improved his chances of re-election, like it or not.
It amazes me that 2 years after Trump and Brexit,after the Austrian, German, Hungarian and Italian elections, that liberal minded Remainers and their US and European counterparts still cannot even imagine that their world view is not shared by most people.1 -
Clinton got more votes than Trump. Latest opinion poll shows Remain 53% and Leave 47%. Think your world view is not shared as widely as you would like to believe!Southbank said:
Maybe not where you live in multicultural London, but his constituency in the US is a different matter.Leuth said:
He's successfully got the Republicans to be seen as the party of comic-book evil. They will not be re-elected.Southbank said:
You need to take a little distance when thinking about Trump. Through this migrant row he has successfully got the Democrats to be seen as the party of illegal inmigration- which is as unpopular in the US as it is in Europe.Leuth said:Make Britain Great Again! Lovely timing on that, just as the entire globe wants Trump and his entire cabinet publicly disembowelled
I suspect the row has improved his chances of re-election, like it or not.
It amazes me that 2 years after Trump and Brexit,after the Austrian, German, Hungarian and Italian elections, that liberal minded Remainers and their US and European counterparts still cannot even imagine that their world view is not shared by most people.0 -
*fewer0
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I can not only imagine it, but accept it is a real world view.Southbank said:
Maybe not where you live in multicultural London, but his constituency in the US is a different matter.Leuth said:
He's successfully got the Republicans to be seen as the party of comic-book evil. They will not be re-elected.Southbank said:
You need to take a little distance when thinking about Trump. Through this migrant row he has successfully got the Democrats to be seen as the party of illegal inmigration- which is as unpopular in the US as it is in Europe.Leuth said:Make Britain Great Again! Lovely timing on that, just as the entire globe wants Trump and his entire cabinet publicly disembowelled
I suspect the row has improved his chances of re-election, like it or not.
It amazes me that 2 years after Trump and Brexit,after the Austrian, German, Hungarian and Italian elections, that liberal minded Remainers and their US and European counterparts still cannot even imagine that their world view is not shared by most people.
I don't agree with it though.
I reserve the right to argue and resist and indeed ridicule where appropriate, and there are plenty of opportunities to do that.
I also accept that brexit won.
My challenge as always is for the brexit winners to own it, and indeed go for it.
My observation is that the brexit winners will not be able to make their apparent victory manifest, because if brexit means regaining control of the borders nobody has come up with a workable plan to regain that control.
The utter misery of it all is that the brexit winners in their utter impotence and incompetence want to lash out and blame everybody else for their failure.
Certainly a remainer like me, and most certainly Barnier and the EU isn't stopping brexit from happening, I suspect our attitude is 'go for it'.
I would like to see the defcom 5 option personally, where the EU is actually the EU, and the UK is excluded from any interaction with the EU except on EU terms (of which the UK knows full well what they are).
If the M20/M2 becomes a car park, if airspace co-operation is stopped, if security co-operation finishes, if the EU arrest warrant, or the EU medicines agency, or any number of other things stop happening bring it on say brexiters. If there is a barbed wire threatening fence in Ireland with all that it would imply then that is what the brexit voters explicitly voted for, and I repeat, to suggest that brexit voters didn't know what they were voting for is supposedly off the agenda, because if brexit voters were to admit it, that they knew not what they were doing, then in my view all bets are off.
Brexit is either completely planned and anticipated by the brexiters, including knowing who would do the 'negotiation', how to forcibly repatriate the EU citizens here, or it is haphazard chaos, which again brexit voters are completely cool with.
I repeat this same viewpoint regularly and regularly challenge brexiters to outline their practical proposals, and to tell us what is good about all this stuff they voted for and ushered in.
Beyond the usual LOL reaction from Chippy there is no credible answer to my inquiries.
It really is easy to assume that people voted brexit out of xenophobia and nothing else, and once their hatred of foreigners has been expressed they are left asking themselves 'what now'?8 -
Don't forget your flag.Chizz said:
Sure. But not on this thread, and not today. Because this thread is about the harm of Brexit, and I'm off to a march right now.Chippycafc said:
Good to see finally you have concerns about British jobs...It would be great to hear your tales of being on a picket lines or rallying to support fireman, dockers, miners, nurses, doctors, teachers, lorry drivers, railway men, GCHQ staff to name but a few...and the financial losses you received by supporting these people...or your marches to Parliament square rallying for the injustice of Austerity, or did your concern only start in recent times.Chizz said:
Ok. Thanks for being honest and sharing the fact you cannot provide any reason that Airbus would consider leaving the UK, other than due to Brexit.Chippycafc said:
No..I am not their managing director or chief executive and neither are you...but many companies move about, can you give me a reason why they did prior to Brexit.Chizz said:
Can you give any reason - other than the effects of Brexit - that Airbus would consider moving from the UK in the next year?Chippycafc said:
They are another outfit who will wait for brexit and make that as an excuse to leave. Others will do it too, who were going to do it anyway. Thousands of companies have shut and moved base for lots of years, shame that some are only concerned about the last two years, and genuinely didn't give a toss about peoples jobs prior to this.Howells said:
I can picture it now.randy andy said:
What a load of rubbish. Airbus build their parts all over the EU mostly for historic political reasons. That is only cost effective with zero tariffs and borders As soon as it take more time and money than the pure transportation costs then it's no longer efficient for Airbus. Why would they produce a wing in Wales only to have to held up at customs and have to pay to get it to France to attach to the fuselage?Howells said:
Poor form from a firm as huge as Airbus are.
If they are honestly suggesting that they haven't sought any solution or contingency plan over the last 12 months then I find that very hard to believe.
Do we really think the bods sitting at airbus HQ have been sitting around twiddling their thumbs waiting to see if a deal will be made with the EU? Unlikely.
No doubting that jobs and suppliers COULD be affected but it would be simply incompetent of airbus to leave it down to UK govt before acting themselves.
It quite clearly is project fear despite what they say.
And using so many thousands of jobs as a bargaining chip on behalf of their beloved eu is low.
Airbus have ploughed so much money into the a380 which is now faltering whilst boeing are powering on with the 787.
Whatever the fate of airbus UK the positive is the post-brexit decision from the Don and Boeing to move their European headquarters to the UK in 2016.
They aren't worried about brexit and with good reason.
If you think their concern in that situation is purely their love of the EU then you are delusional, and they would be mad to base part of their supply chain in a "no deal" UK.
They turn up at the channel tunnel, and a burly fella with a uniform rocks up...
'ere mate, where do you think you're going with that trent 900'0 -
Thank you for the courtesy of a reply @golfaddick . For the record I was not suggesting you were being dishonest. I was suggesting you were utterly wrong about whatever it was Barnier is supposed to have said on these "numerous occasions". On that basis I'm sure we are both glad you haven't wasted days searching for a source to substantiate this (that I don't believe exists) and then learning how to use copy & paste.golfaddick said:
nope......only because Ì have a life & can't be arsed to spend hours looking for a quote.....and I have no idea how to post a link to it even if I did. I know he said it (on at least 2 occaisons) 1 at a press conference somewhere as I remember seeing it on the news. I think its rather well known that a fully non-EU country (ie, not a Norway) can't be a member of the single market & the customs union. The single market brings with it free movement of trade AND PEOPLE.....which is the main reason why I voted leave & the customs union means you can't set up your own trade deals. If these 2 policies could be changed to allow us access to free trade with the EU AND other countries AND allow us to control our own immigration policy then I'd be happy to stay in the EU.......but they can't & they wont & so like a Dragon.....I'm out !!Bournemouth Addick said:
Sorry to raise this again @golfaddick but any luck with sourcing your claim please?Bournemouth Addick said:
Apologies if I've missed this in the intervening pages of why we shouldn't be doing what we can to stop small children drowning @golfaddick but have you got a source for your claim that Barnier has said multiple times we have to leave the single market on leaving the EU?aliwibble said:
Reposting to fix the knock on effect of Golfie's broken quotingBournemouth Addick said:
Has he?golfaddick said:yes, just post "soundbites" that in themselves don't prove anything. All taken out of context & simply shows that a couple of leavers think that we could follow the Norway model. By leaving the EU we HAVE to leave the single market / free movement of trade & people. Michel Barnier has said this on numerous occaisons.
As @Algarveaddick has pointed out, for Barnier to have said what you claimed he did, he would have had to completely overlook the EU's existing relationships with Iceland, Liechtenstein, Switzerland and Norway. Who are all outside the EU but members of the single market. Source:https://gov.uk/eu-eea .
M.Barber may be many things but I don't believe he's either too stupid to know this or just forgot this option existed when providing a commentary on the very subject.
I'm honestly not keen on going over the same old ground as during the referendum unless it's being used as justification/guidance as to future direction of the UK. That argument has been lost/won by Leave. But it's interesting you're now introducing the concept of a "fully non-EU country" and a shame there wasn't this option on the ballot paper as it may have allowed for a more nuanced vote that could genuinely have best represented the cross section of voters views.
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Sorry couldn't resist seeing as you named me ...again...but nice heart felt message.seth plum said:
I can not only imagine it, but accept it is a real world view.Southbank said:
Maybe not where you live in multicultural London, but his constituency in the US is a different matter.Leuth said:
He's successfully got the Republicans to be seen as the party of comic-book evil. They will not be re-elected.Southbank said:
You need to take a little distance when thinking about Trump. Through this migrant row he has successfully got the Democrats to be seen as the party of illegal inmigration- which is as unpopular in the US as it is in Europe.Leuth said:Make Britain Great Again! Lovely timing on that, just as the entire globe wants Trump and his entire cabinet publicly disembowelled
I suspect the row has improved his chances of re-election, like it or not.
It amazes me that 2 years after Trump and Brexit,after the Austrian, German, Hungarian and Italian elections, that liberal minded Remainers and their US and European counterparts still cannot even imagine that their world view is not shared by most people.
I don't agree with it though.
I reserve the right to argue and resist and indeed ridicule where appropriate, and there are plenty of opportunities to do that.
I also accept that brexit won.
My challenge as always is for the brexit winners to own it, and indeed go for it.
My observation is that the brexit winners will not be able to make their apparent victory manifest, because if brexit means regaining control of the borders nobody has come up with a workable plan to regain that control.
The utter misery of it all is that the brexit winners in their utter impotence and incompetence want to lash out and blame everybody else for their failure.
Certainly a remainer like me, and most certainly Barnier and the EU isn't stopping brexit from happening, I suspect our attitude is 'go for it'.
I would like to see the defcom 5 option personally, where the EU is actually the EU, and the UK is excluded from any interaction with the EU except on EU terms (of which the UK knows full well what they are).
If the M20/M2 becomes a car park, if airspace co-operation is stopped, if security co-operation finishes, if the EU arrest warrant, or the EU medicines agency, or any number of other things stop happening bring it on say brexiters. If there is a barbed wire threatening fence in Ireland with all that it would imply then that is what the brexit voters explicitly voted for, and I repeat, to suggest that brexit voters didn't know what they were voting for is supposedly off the agenda, because if brexit voters were to admit it, that they knew not what they were doing, then in my view all bets are off.
Brexit is either completely planned and anticipated by the brexiters, including knowing who would do the 'negotiation', how to forcibly repatriate the EU citizens here, or it is haphazard chaos, which again brexit voters are completely cool with.
I repeat this same viewpoint regularly and regularly challenge brexiters to outline their practical proposals, and to tell us what is good about all this stuff they voted for and ushered in.
Beyond the usual LOL reaction from Chippy there is no credible answer to my inquiries.
It really is easy to assume that people voted brexit out of xenophobia and nothing else, and once their hatred of foreigners has been expressed they are left asking themselves 'what now'?0 -
You are talking to a brick wall @seth plumseth plum said:
I can not only imagine it, but accept it is a real world view.Southbank said:
Maybe not where you live in multicultural London, but his constituency in the US is a different matter.Leuth said:
He's successfully got the Republicans to be seen as the party of comic-book evil. They will not be re-elected.Southbank said:
You need to take a little distance when thinking about Trump. Through this migrant row he has successfully got the Democrats to be seen as the party of illegal inmigration- which is as unpopular in the US as it is in Europe.Leuth said:Make Britain Great Again! Lovely timing on that, just as the entire globe wants Trump and his entire cabinet publicly disembowelled
I suspect the row has improved his chances of re-election, like it or not.
It amazes me that 2 years after Trump and Brexit,after the Austrian, German, Hungarian and Italian elections, that liberal minded Remainers and their US and European counterparts still cannot even imagine that their world view is not shared by most people.
I don't agree with it though.
I reserve the right to argue and resist and indeed ridicule where appropriate, and there are plenty of opportunities to do that.
I also accept that brexit won.
My challenge as always is for the brexit winners to own it, and indeed go for it.
My observation is that the brexit winners will not be able to make their apparent victory manifest, because if brexit means regaining control of the borders nobody has come up with a workable plan to regain that control.
The utter misery of it all is that the brexit winners in their utter impotence and incompetence want to lash out and blame everybody else for their failure.
Certainly a remainer like me, and most certainly Barnier and the EU isn't stopping brexit from happening, I suspect our attitude is 'go for it'.
I would like to see the defcom 5 option personally, where the EU is actually the EU, and the UK is excluded from any interaction with the EU except on EU terms (of which the UK knows full well what they are).
If the M20/M2 becomes a car park, if airspace co-operation is stopped, if security co-operation finishes, if the EU arrest warrant, or the EU medicines agency, or any number of other things stop happening bring it on say brexiters. If there is a barbed wire threatening fence in Ireland with all that it would imply then that is what the brexit voters explicitly voted for, and I repeat, to suggest that brexit voters didn't know what they were voting for is supposedly off the agenda, because if brexit voters were to admit it, that they knew not what they were doing, then in my view all bets are off.
Brexit is either completely planned and anticipated by the brexiters, including knowing who would do the 'negotiation', how to forcibly repatriate the EU citizens here, or it is haphazard chaos, which again brexit voters are completely cool with.
I repeat this same viewpoint regularly and regularly challenge brexiters to outline their practical proposals, and to tell us what is good about all this stuff they voted for and ushered in.
Beyond the usual LOL reaction from Chippy there is no credible answer to my inquiries.
It really is easy to assume that people voted brexit out of xenophobia and nothing else, and once their hatred of foreigners has been expressed they are left asking themselves 'what now'?
For "it ain't so neat to admit defeat
They can see no reasons
For there are no reasons
What reason do they need?"
Those lyrics were written about the sheer senselessness of a school massacre several decades ago. An existentially terrifying crime showing that life often has no rhyme nor reason.
As many have now recognised, Brexit is a protest movement against many things which tunes into nationalism, promising sovereignty and control. It cannot deliver on these promises without demanding an uber hard Brexit which will crash the economy.
The Tories own this chaotic sequence of events and it is they who have paralysed government whilst failing to deliver anything resembling workable solutions.
Polls are shifting but not much... jobs are shifting but not noticeably. And we have just 40 weeks left in the EU! Perhaps after we have left so as to enter a transition phase, we might sober up as a nation and take a fresh look at the situation.
Unfortunately by that time more jobs and departments will have migrated to the EU27... but we will all have a better idea of the numbers. No more project fear allegations - just a simple assessment of our GDP, inflation and net immigration after nearly three years of this farcical adventure.
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Trump (& Brexit) won through the sheer apathy of the majority of the population - the campaigns for both Hillary and Remain were insipid. I do hope that these results have been a wake up call for that majority to ensure that these absolute clusterfucks are never repeated.
Who am I kidding?1 -
Who u talking to @Callumcafc think we are the only two muppets on here at this ungodly hourCallumcafc said:Trump (& Brexit) won through the sheer apathy of the majority of the population. I do hope that these results have been a wake up call for that majority to ensure that these absolute clusterfucks are never repeated.
Who am I kidding?1 -
It's 10pm on a Saturday night here in gun loving Texas my friend. Here to keep ya company while you struggle to sleep.0
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Haha 4AM hereCallumcafc said:It's 10pm on a Saturday night here in gun loving Texas my friend. Here to keep ya company while you struggle to sleep.
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I know! I used to live there! ;-)0
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Haha, u may have forgotten the difference, I been 2 Florida twice but if soneone asked the time difference I would have no ideaCallumcafc said:I know! I used to live there! ;-)
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Pah. I got the first one :-)Chizz said:
Not just me then @Algarveaddick ?Algarveaddick said:If only you did rest it rather than sending me the abusive PM...
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Whose he..not another expert...with all these experts is anybody actually doing anything these days....apart from backsides on PC;s producing nothing.guinnessaddick said:1 -
Out of the three, you deserved it most, RichPragueAddick said:
Pah. I got the first one :-)Chizz said:
Not just me then @Algarveaddick ?Algarveaddick said:If only you did rest it rather than sending me the abusive PM...
Well, I say three, @chizz if you consider that 'abuse' then you must be very thin skinned indeed.
How unlike you to take something entirely out of context!
Anyway gents, let's get back to the matter at hand, derailing brexit via a league one football club forum...0 -
Nobody is derailing brexit beyond those who voted for it.
There is irony in that n'est pas?1
This discussion has been closed.
