The influence of the EU on Britain.

Howells said:

PragueAddick said:

Chizz said:

Algarveaddick said:

If only you did rest it rather than sending me the abusive PM...

Not just me then @Algarveaddick ?

Pah. I got the first one :-)

Out of the three, you deserved it most, Rich
Well, I say three, @chizz if you consider that 'abuse' then you must be very thin skinned indeed.
How unlike you to take something entirely out of context!

Anyway gents, let's get back to the matter at hand, derailing brexit via a league one football club forum...

No, I didn't consider your unsolicited message "abuse". I just thought it was weird and attention-seeking.

blackpool72 said:

seth plum said:

Nobody is derailing brexit beyond those who voted for it.
There is irony in that n'est pas?

Quite the opposite.
Brexit is being derailed by the Tory cabinet that mainly voted remain.

Sec of State for Leaving the EU? Leaver
Sec of State for Trade? leaver
Foreign Sec? leaver

Three of the biggest jobs in removing us from the worlds most successful trading area, and leavers.

blackpool72 said:

Rothko said:

blackpool72 said:

seth plum said:

Nobody is derailing brexit beyond those who voted for it.
There is irony in that n'est pas?

Quite the opposite.
Brexit is being derailed by the Tory cabinet that mainly voted remain.

Sec of State for Leaving the EU? Leaver
Sec of State for Trade? leaver
Foreign Sec? leaver

Three of the biggest jobs in removing us from the worlds most successful trading area, and leavers.

Prime minister Remainer
Chancellor Remainer.
I could go on the point is that the Tory front bench is split over Brexit.
When May called a general election last year she should have made sure that the cabinet was full of those in favour of Brexit.
But she failed to do so and that has contributed to the mess we are now in.

She could have done that, but they were all shit.

ThreadKiller said:

blackpool72 said:

seth plum said:

Nobody is derailing brexit beyond those who voted for it.
There is irony in that n'est pas?

Quite the opposite.
Brexit is being derailed by the Tory cabinet that mainly voted remain.

But it's what you voted for

I voted UKIP not Tory.

ThreadKiller said:

blackpool72 said:

ThreadKiller said:

blackpool72 said:

seth plum said:

Nobody is derailing brexit beyond those who voted for it.
There is irony in that n'est pas?

Quite the opposite.
Brexit is being derailed by the Tory cabinet that mainly voted remain.

But it's what you voted for

I voted UKIP not Tory.

Leave/Remain. I didn't see Ukip on that one

Fair enough.
I just wanted to point out I have never voted Tory in my life.

golfaddick said:

I'm sorry @seth plum but I don't get this "own it" mantra that you roll out at every turn. what & how am I suppose to "own it". wear a sack cloth with the word "I'm a Brexiter....kick me" on it. The electorate voted in a referendum & the result was that we leave the EU. The rest is now down to the UK Government. I have no more power or "ownership" over what happens next than I do over Philip Hammond raising income tax. The only democratic way of changing anything is every 5 years at the ballot box. Pressure can be put on the powers that be by protesting but the only major policy u-turn I have witnessed in the past 40 years has been the via the Poll Tax riots.

So you agree that the referendum was undemocratic then. I guess that's a step forward.

If you don't understand it, why did you vote for it? Unique...

Unfortunately the general election last year wasn’t for me anything to do with May giving her or us a mandate to see through brexit, it was simply an ill thought out and pathetic attempt at what she thought would be a power grab on the basis of the referendum result a year earlier.

It was sheer arrogance, ignorance, incompetence on her part to call an election, because she misjudged the mood of a nation. I truly believe in her head, and among her advisors that she thought the referendum opened up disenchanted working class voters of northern towns that were once staunch labour and white van men of Essex and other parts Britain who had turned to UKIP (sorry for the generalisations) as now ready to join to the Tory fold.

So instead of an extra few months to try and unravel 40 years of Union, we had a vanity project that was misguided, ill judged and massively overestimated. It’s as if an audio version of the Daily Mail was being pumped through a loud speaker in the Houses of Parliament in the same way hotels in Vegas pump oxygen to keep you gaming. May thought that we were ready for a bright new dawn of Rule Brittannia and she was going to lead us into it

When she saw that the results still show a lot of people quite rightly wouldn’t trust the Tory party and they’re still very good at shafting those with less and maintaining the status quo, she panicked and did indeed start seeking more input from ‘remainers’ as if to placate the electorate and say to the 48 percent that we haven’t forgotten about you.

So in the end, we get nothing. We’ve lost months, we only have months left and this thread neatly sums up the situation, it’s going nowhere and going round in circles.

Ideologically the only way we can make this work is to either fall one way or the other now. And when I say one way or the other I mean we either leave with no deal, or we stay and never leave. I don’t believe that as a nation we’re capable of a compromise to sufficiently support either side’s beliefs or values.

golfaddick said:

seth plum said:

golfaddick said:

I'm sorry @seth plum but I don't get this "own it" mantra that you roll out at every turn. what & how am I suppose to "own it". wear a sack cloth with the word "I'm a Brexiter....kick me" on it. The electorate voted in a referendum & the result was that we leave the EU. The rest is now down to the UK Government. I have no more power or "ownership" over what happens next than I do over Philip Hammond raising income tax. The only democratic way of changing anything is every 5 years at the ballot box. Pressure can be put on the powers that be by protesting but the only major policy u-turn I have witnessed in the past 40 years has been the via the Poll Tax riots.

I might be mistaken, but I think you picked up the term 'own it' and ran with it a few pages ago, that you were indeed prepared to 'own it'.
The main thrust of my position is about those who voted brexit wanting to blame others for this nightmare, there is a lot of hand washing going on.
Brexit voters have created these conditions.
Interestingly you say the only democratic way of changing anything is every five years at the ballot box.
I wish.
It is rammed down our throats that the referendum vote was the 'democratic' will of the people, and it is a forever thing, not an every five year thing.
Maybe brave people should wear a sign that says 'I'm a brexiter...praise me, thank me'.
It is easy to find new and varied ways to avoid facing up to what brexiteers should actually do next, indeed your complaint about my mantra is another example.
Much better that you wear a sackcloth with a practical and workable solution to the Irish border written on it.

Once again you ask me to find an answer to the Irish border problem. Its not my problem to solve I'm not in the government - they are the ones we have elected to do our bidding for us.

I gave my answer to this a few days ago. Make it a hard border......sod the GFA. How it is done is, again, not my problem. I am not into security, border control, logistics, immigration etc etc...... am a financial adviser & have been for 30 years. I was given the chance to vote 1 of 2 ways.I votrd to leave the EU. how excatly that is done is down to others. When I board a plane to fly to Spain I don't exoect the pilot to ask all 200 passengers how they expect to get there & by the way, do they know the route. I have paid the airline to get me from A to B & assume that before offering a flight that they at least know the route & how to fly a plane.

sorry...my last post on this as we seem to be going round in circles & frankly I've had enough.

The lives to be lost by British people in Northern Ireland don't matter to you, as long as Brexit happens, since you were ignorant of the issues when you voted leave two years ago.

Howells said:

.

Chizz said:

Howells said:

PragueAddick said:

Chizz said:

Algarveaddick said:

If only you did rest it rather than sending me the abusive PM...

Not just me then @Algarveaddick ?

Pah. I got the first one :-)

Out of the three, you deserved it most, Rich
Well, I say three, @chizz if you consider that 'abuse' then you must be very thin skinned indeed.
How unlike you to take something entirely out of context!

Anyway gents, let's get back to the matter at hand, derailing brexit via a league one football club forum...

No, I didn't consider your unsolicited message "abuse". I just thought it was weird and attention-seeking.

Unsolicited?
You tagged me asking why I lol,d your post.
I told you. Hardly unsolicited, is it?

As I said, weird.

If you want to explain why you did, do so on here.

Howells said:

PragueAddick said:

Chizz said:

Algarveaddick said:

If only you did rest it rather than sending me the abusive PM...

Not just me then @Algarveaddick ?

Pah. I got the first one :-)

Out of the three, you deserved it most, Rich
Well, I say three, @chizz if you consider that 'abuse' then you must be very thin skinned indeed.
How unlike you to take something entirely out of context!

Anyway gents, let's get back to the matter at hand, derailing brexit via a league one football club forum...

Derailing? The wheels are wonky, the axles are appalling, the bogies are busted, the couplings are crap, the engine is exhausted, the pistons are piss poor, the driver is dodgy, there are leaves on the line and there's wrong type of snow. And you're worried about a few folk on a football forum derailing it?!?!?! The whole pathetic project is doomed to fail through it's own inherent inadequacies.

golfaddick said:

seth plum said:

golfaddick said:

I'm sorry @seth plum but I don't get this "own it" mantra that you roll out at every turn. what & how am I suppose to "own it". wear a sack cloth with the word "I'm a Brexiter....kick me" on it. The electorate voted in a referendum & the result was that we leave the EU. The rest is now down to the UK Government. I have no more power or "ownership" over what happens next than I do over Philip Hammond raising income tax. The only democratic way of changing anything is every 5 years at the ballot box. Pressure can be put on the powers that be by protesting but the only major policy u-turn I have witnessed in the past 40 years has been the via the Poll Tax riots.

I might be mistaken, but I think you picked up the term 'own it' and ran with it a few pages ago, that you were indeed prepared to 'own it'.
The main thrust of my position is about those who voted brexit wanting to blame others for this nightmare, there is a lot of hand washing going on.
Brexit voters have created these conditions.
Interestingly you say the only democratic way of changing anything is every five years at the ballot box.
I wish.
It is rammed down our throats that the referendum vote was the 'democratic' will of the people, and it is a forever thing, not an every five year thing.
Maybe brave people should wear a sign that says 'I'm a brexiter...praise me, thank me'.
It is easy to find new and varied ways to avoid facing up to what brexiteers should actually do next, indeed your complaint about my mantra is another example.
Much better that you wear a sackcloth with a practical and workable solution to the Irish border written on it.

Once again you ask me to find an answer to the Irish border problem. Its not my problem to solve I'm not in the government - they are the ones we have elected to do our bidding for us.

I gave my answer to this a few days ago. Make it a hard border......sod the GFA. How it is done is, again, not my problem. I am not into security, border control, logistics, immigration etc etc...... am a financial adviser & have been for 30 years. I was given the chance to vote 1 of 2 ways.I votrd to leave the EU. how excatly that is done is down to others. When I board a plane to fly to Spain I don't exoect the pilot to ask all 200 passengers how they expect to get there & by the way, do they know the route. I have paid the airline to get me from A to B & assume that before offering a flight that they at least know the route & how to fly a plane.

sorry...my last post on this as we seem to be going round in circles & frankly I've had enough.

...and therein lies the problem doesn't it?

You happily boarded a "plane" being flown by someone having their first stab at a take off and landing, in really bad weather, not knowing where they wanted to land or the route to get there and with a cockpit full of equally inept pilots all pulling at the controls at the same time.

Now you want to disclaim any responsibility for any turbulence along the way and, if we somehow make it, that we might end up were only some of the passengers wanted to go to in the first place.