The influence of the EU on Britain.

ShootersHillGuru said:

Steve Barclay new Brexit Secretary. At least we can bank on him.

I would have preferred Nathaniel West.

MuttleyCAFC said:

She can try again, and up the threats! That is when it will all really kick off I predict. There is no way she is going to win the vote and her plan to scare people into it is just not going to work.

what concessions would she need?

A time limit on the backstop/unilateral get out perhaps? But would that be enough?

MuttleyCAFC said:

I think the no confidence is going to happen. But she will win it so it will just be a distraction.

micks1950 said:

It could be worse than a distraction as it should strengthen her position - as there then can't be another Tory leadership challenge for one year.

She will have known all along from the Tory whips about the strength of her position. That they appear unable to secure 48 letters, let alone 158 MPs and a leadership candidate simply reveals their weakness to the electorate and the media - more new information!

Now that she is crossing that bridge, the next challenge is to win a vote in the House. Both Heseltine and McDonnell say the numbers simply do not stack up. As posted higher up, what witnessing is the potential fragmentation of the Government coalition consisting DUP, ERG, Tory remainers and the rest. It will take as long as it takes and all we might hope for is the minimum damage to our economy and international reputation.

If May stays put this simply changes the calculation for Labour and the Tory remainers. The EU27 are not going to change the deal on offer, nor the deadline. To the horror of people such as @Southbank Tusk has revealed that the EU is prepared for the deal, no deal and most of all no Brexit!

MuttleyCAFC said:

I'd rather May was in charge than one of Rees Mogg's stupid mates!

It's possibly Ree Moggs's little list of possible Tory replacements that has slowed the flow of 'no confidence' letters.....

MuttleyCAFC said:

The EU will allow time for another vote, which ultimately will scupper May's plan.

I think this as well. I said some time ago that I wouldn't be overly surprised if this whole situation is being more managed than we may think, in order to eventually arrive at a Remain vote.

Theresa May couldn't do this too speedily as it would be obvious, but I can't help feeling that there's way and means and May is more shrewd than we are giving her credit for.

Jacob Rees Mogg's call for Tory MPs to write and send letters of no confidence in the PM seems to have failed. A lost gamble. A misjudgement of colleagues' sentiment. His biggest political set-piece, live on TV, press assembled and briefed, desperately trying to look statesmanlike and important. And he's left with egg on his face.

There's no indication it worked. He called on it yesterday, encouraged his little battle group the ERG to publish their letter and yet, complete silence from the 1922 Committee. The trickle of letters may well continue and the total could still flop over the 48-mark. But the tsunami of diloyalty Rees-Mogg called for has failed to appear.

So, to "out of touch" and "dissembling" we can add the adjectives "disloyal", "treacherous" and "ill-advised"

There's a saying "he who wields the knife never wears the crown". How delicious for that phrase now to be apposite, since it was first used by Michael Heseltine, the distinguished remainer.

Covered End said:

Chizz said:

Jacob Rees Mogg's call for Tory MPs to write and send letters of no confidence in the PM seems to have failed. A lost gamble. A misjudgement of colleagues' sentiment. His biggest political set-piece, live on TV, press assembled and briefed, desperately trying to look statesmanlike and important. And he's left with egg on his face.

There's no indication it worked. He called on it yesterday, encouraged his little battle group the ERG to publish their letter and yet, complete silence from the 1922 Committee. The trickle of letters may well continue and the total could still flop over the 48-mark. But the tsunami of diloyalty Rees-Mogg called for has failed to appear.

So, to "out of touch" and "dissembling" we can add the adjectives "disloyal", "treacherous" and "ill-advised"

There's a saying "he who wields the knife never wears the crown". How delicious for that phrase now to be apposite, since it was first used by Michael Heseltine, the distinguished remainer.

Which is why Gove is shuffling around in the shadows.

Ditto Boris Johnson. When the time comes for initiative, determination, influence, organisation and temperament, he goes missing. Which is ironic really, because the initials of those words would seem entirely suitable for him.

seriously_red said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

I think the no confidence is going to happen. But she will win it so it will just be a distraction.

micks1950 said:

It could be worse than a distraction as it should strengthen her position - as there then can't be another Tory leadership challenge for one year.

She will have known all along from the Tory whips about the strength of her position. That they appear unable to secure 48 letters, let alone 158 MPs and a leadership candidate simply reveals their weakness to the electorate and the media - more new information!

Now that she is crossing that bridge, the next challenge is to win a vote in the House. Both Heseltine and McDonnell say the numbers simply do not stack up. As posted higher up, what witnessing is the potential fragmentation of the Government coalition consisting DUP, ERG, Tory remainers and the rest. It will take as long as it takes and all we might hope for is the minimum damage to our economy and international reputation.

If May stays put this simply changes the calculation for Labour and the Tory remainers. The EU27 are not going to change the deal on offer, nor the deadline. To the horror of people such as @Southbank Tusk has revealed that the EU is prepared for the deal, no deal and most of all no Brexit!

Yes, I am shocked the EU does not want us to Leave and wreck their European project.

Chizz said:

Covered End said:

Chizz said:

Jacob Rees Mogg's call for Tory MPs to write and send letters of no confidence in the PM seems to have failed. A lost gamble. A misjudgement of colleagues' sentiment. His biggest political set-piece, live on TV, press assembled and briefed, desperately trying to look statesmanlike and important. And he's left with egg on his face.

There's no indication it worked. He called on it yesterday, encouraged his little battle group the ERG to publish their letter and yet, complete silence from the 1922 Committee. The trickle of letters may well continue and the total could still flop over the 48-mark. But the tsunami of diloyalty Rees-Mogg called for has failed to appear.

So, to "out of touch" and "dissembling" we can add the adjectives "disloyal", "treacherous" and "ill-advised"

There's a saying "he who wields the knife never wears the crown". How delicious for that phrase now to be apposite, since it was first used by Michael Heseltine, the distinguished remainer.

Which is why Gove is shuffling around in the shadows.

Ditto Boris Johnson. When the time comes for initiative, determination, influence, organisation and temperament, he goes missing. Which is ironic really, because the initials of those words would seem entirely suitable for him.

Don’t forget Andrea Leadsom’s Pizza Club is still hiding in the shadows and waiting to pounce 🤪

Fiiish said:

Southbank said:

bobmunro said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

If we have another referendum and we vote to remain, surely it is a victory for democracy. Who can say otherwise in all honesty?

The Leave voters from last time. They want democracy but don't want it repeated.

So if there was another referendum which voted Remain but the Government decided to Leave anyway, you would be ok with that? Because that it is the same as what is being argued for now.

If the result had been Remain but it turned out the Remain campaign had engaged in the largest act of criminality and electoral fraud in British political history then I would be in favour of a rerun of the referendum.

I don't even see the call for a People's Vote as a second referendum. I see it as a call to rerun the first which can no longer be considered a democratic exercise due to the high levels of criminality and corruption from the Leave campaigns and foreign agents looking to undermine British democracy.

You can either be in favour of a new, legal referendum, or you can be happy that we reward criminal enterprise by honouring the criminal Leave result.

Remind us how many successful legal proceedings have there been over the last 2 1/2 years to give your post any validity?

Which is why Gove is shuffling around in the shadows.

Don't speak too soon, he looks to me well placed to take over when the first vote on the deal fails. A measure of how far right the Tories have drifted that gove could now be the centre ground

A-R-T-H-U-R said:

Fiiish said:

A-R-T-H-U-R said:

Fiiish said:

Southbank said:

bobmunro said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

If we have another referendum and we vote to remain, surely it is a victory for democracy. Who can say otherwise in all honesty?

The Leave voters from last time. They want democracy but don't want it repeated.

So if there was another referendum which voted Remain but the Government decided to Leave anyway, you would be ok with that? Because that it is the same as what is being argued for now.

If the result had been Remain but it turned out the Remain campaign had engaged in the largest act of criminality and electoral fraud in British political history then I would be in favour of a rerun of the referendum.

I don't even see the call for a People's Vote as a second referendum. I see it as a call to rerun the first which can no longer be considered a democratic exercise due to the high levels of criminality and corruption from the Leave campaigns and foreign agents looking to undermine British democracy.

You can either be in favour of a new, legal referendum, or you can be happy that we reward criminal enterprise by honouring the criminal Leave result.

Remind us how many successful legal proceedings have there been over the last 2 1/2 years to give your post any validity?

The UK Government are blocking the investigation into the several acts of criminality that the police and the Electoral Commission want to proceed with. There was widespread electoral fraud that has taken place, and the government is refusing to do anything about it for political reasons.

So none then.
Largest act of criminality, you say?
And the Leader of the Opposition has not bothered to raise a case in a country where legal precedence over rides what the Government wants? I wonder why?

Someone must be talking nonsense.

Corbyn being a useless apparatchik doesn't mean criminality didn't occur.

Why won't the Leave campaigns come clean over where their money came from?

Who paid for all the illegal Leave ads on Facebook?

What was the true extent of the illegal data-mining by Cambridge Analytica and why were they meeting up with Vote Leave, Boris Johnson and Michael Gove?

Carole Cadwalladr has been fantastic as exposing the corruption involved by various Brexiters, the crimes that have taken place and the steps taken by the government and high level officials to block their investigation. It is on the public record that the police have stated their attempts to investigate any wrongdoing have been blocked due to "political sensitivities."

Covered End said:

Chizz said:

Jacob Rees Mogg's call for Tory MPs to write and send letters of no confidence in the PM seems to have failed. A lost gamble. A misjudgement of colleagues' sentiment. His biggest political set-piece, live on TV, press assembled and briefed, desperately trying to look statesmanlike and important. And he's left with egg on his face.

There's no indication it worked. He called on it yesterday, encouraged his little battle group the ERG to publish their letter and yet, complete silence from the 1922 Committee. The trickle of letters may well continue and the total could still flop over the 48-mark. But the tsunami of diloyalty Rees-Mogg called for has failed to appear.

So, to "out of touch" and "dissembling" we can add the adjectives "disloyal", "treacherous" and "ill-advised"

There's a saying "he who wields the knife never wears the crown". How delicious for that phrase now to be apposite, since it was first used by Michael Heseltine, the distinguished remainer.

Which is why Gove is shuffling around in the shadows.

Because that is what he likes doing - I suspect distrust of Gove is probably one of the very few things that the Tories can agree upon at present.

Jensenwasclass said:

Bring on NO DEAL!!!

Now or in two years time - do you really think that political declaration as to what might happen in two years time has any significance whatsoever?