Post match views: Charlton v Luton

killerandflash said:

addick05 said:

ForeverAddickted said:

CAFCTrev said:

Fucking deluded

https://www.londonnewsonline.co.uk/luton-town-boss-mick-harford-charlton-penalty-call-was-a-disgrace/

To be fair I'd agree the penalty was soft and probably changed the game in the sense that it brought us level and put more pressure on the Luton defence to make those two mistakes

The fact remains though that Williams should have had a penalty minutes earlier so evened itself up

If anything; Sonny Bradley was an idiot to put himself in a position only moments after that decision when it would have been fresh in the referee's mind

Not sure about the Williams penalty. Thought he was looking for the challenge and as he had been diving all over the place previously he had wound the referee up, so he wan't going to give him anything. I can also see why the keeper wasn't sent off; there were two Luton players goal-side of the incident. Mind you, at the time I couldn't understand how the keeper stayed on the pitch. OK, so Lyle's pen certainly changed the game but we had been getting closer to the equaliser. After that though, we simply played them off the pitch, they simply had no idea how to cope with us.

Williams does tend to go down easily. You can take the boy out of Palace but you can't take the Palace out of the boy...

Speaking of which, I'm looking forward to Charlton Live tonight.

No doubt we'll hear @LouisMend's understated commentary of our third goal ...

PeterGage said:

Redrobo said:

I can’t believe that anyone does not think that the assault on Vetokele 1st half was not a straight red. He was clearly out of control which is a red card. It was reckless, which is a red card, he bought down the last player in a goal scoring opportunity, which is a red card.

I thought we were the better side first half, but they scored a very good goal, Phillips saved a good shot, and they carved one just past the post.

It was not one way traffic though. As said, they should have had a straight red on what was a good scoring opportunity. Taylor was fouled as he then hit the crossbar.

Second half was just wow! Deffo penalty, but was surprised that the the ref spotted it. He had hold of Taylor and tripped him. Thought the Williams one was as well. A very good side were in full panick and lost a lot of control. They are still a good team, just not as good as us when we are full strength.

Hello, Hello, Igor is back, Igor is back!

Fantastic from Igor today. Love the guy and so good to see him score today.

Love Taylor. Not just the way he plays. It is the way he encourages and supports his team mates. Igor is back because of him, and the joy Taylor had in his goal was fantastic, and for his set up for his second. I think he is destined for greater things. Can see him being a politician of some sort. Natural leader and good man. 

Great to meet CatAddict today as well. Thanks mate. Really appreciate it, hope to see you at Oxford. I will buy you a whole pint as well!

It clearly wasnt a red card, using your "language". You used the term "reckless", which defines a caution in the Laws of the Game. The tackle by a player which the referee defines as "using excessive force" is a red card. If that same foul committed by the keeper yesterday was committed on say the halfway line, nobody would be shouting for a red card. Supporter emotion often comes into play when a half chance was thwarted by a foul such as that undertaken by the keeper yesterday.

Nowhere near the ball and took the player out.  Red card all day long.  If you want confirmation, look at the comment further up this thread from the qualified ref.

PeterGage said:

Redrobo said:

I can’t believe that anyone does not think that the assault on Vetokele 1st half was not a straight red. He was clearly out of control which is a red card. It was reckless, which is a red card, he bought down the last player in a goal scoring opportunity, which is a red card.

I thought we were the better side first half, but they scored a very good goal, Phillips saved a good shot, and they carved one just past the post.

It was not one way traffic though. As said, they should have had a straight red on what was a good scoring opportunity. Taylor was fouled as he then hit the crossbar.

Second half was just wow! Deffo penalty, but was surprised that the the ref spotted it. He had hold of Taylor and tripped him. Thought the Williams one was as well. A very good side were in full panick and lost a lot of control. They are still a good team, just not as good as us when we are full strength.

Hello, Hello, Igor is back, Igor is back!

Fantastic from Igor today. Love the guy and so good to see him score today.

Love Taylor. Not just the way he plays. It is the way he encourages and supports his team mates. Igor is back because of him, and the joy Taylor had in his goal was fantastic, and for his set up for his second. I think he is destined for greater things. Can see him being a politician of some sort. Natural leader and good man. 

Great to meet CatAddict today as well. Thanks mate. Really appreciate it, hope to see you at Oxford. I will buy you a whole pint as well!

It clearly wasnt a red card, using your "language". You used the term "reckless", which defines a caution in the Laws of the Game. The tackle by a player which the referee defines as "using excessive force" is a red card. If that same foul committed by the keeper yesterday was committed on say the halfway line, nobody would be shouting for a red card. Supporter emotion often comes into play when a half chance was thwarted by a foul such as that undertaken by the keeper yesterday.

@petergage good as always to hear your referees point of view but I think it was a little more than a ‘half chance’

the ball only dropped a foot past the post so IMHO it was a goal scoring opportunity.

In your opinion, what would have happened if the ball HAD gone in?
  Goal given and yellow because clearly ‘prevention’ had failed
or
  No goal.  Free kick and red card 
or
  (for the cynical gits) No goal. Luton FK and yellow for diving?

PeterGage said:

Redrobo said:

I can’t believe that anyone does not think that the assault on Vetokele 1st half was not a straight red. He was clearly out of control which is a red card. It was reckless, which is a red card, he bought down the last player in a goal scoring opportunity, which is a red card.

I thought we were the better side first half, but they scored a very good goal, Phillips saved a good shot, and they carved one just past the post.

It was not one way traffic though. As said, they should have had a straight red on what was a good scoring opportunity. Taylor was fouled as he then hit the crossbar.

Second half was just wow! Deffo penalty, but was surprised that the the ref spotted it. He had hold of Taylor and tripped him. Thought the Williams one was as well. A very good side were in full panick and lost a lot of control. They are still a good team, just not as good as us when we are full strength.

Hello, Hello, Igor is back, Igor is back!

Fantastic from Igor today. Love the guy and so good to see him score today.

Love Taylor. Not just the way he plays. It is the way he encourages and supports his team mates. Igor is back because of him, and the joy Taylor had in his goal was fantastic, and for his set up for his second. I think he is destined for greater things. Can see him being a politician of some sort. Natural leader and good man. 

Great to meet CatAddict today as well. Thanks mate. Really appreciate it, hope to see you at Oxford. I will buy you a whole pint as well!

It clearly wasnt a red card, using your "language". You used the term "reckless", which defines a caution in the Laws of the Game. The tackle by a player which the referee defines as "using excessive force" is a red card. If that same foul committed by the keeper yesterday was committed on say the halfway line, nobody would be shouting for a red card. Supporter emotion often comes into play when a half chance was thwarted by a foul such as that undertaken by the keeper yesterday.

I'm genuinely wondering if you're talking about the same incident as everyone else

I’m sure it’s all already been said but an absolutely magnificent second half performance from our lads in which we absolutely marmalised Luton.

Not too much in it in the first half, although Luton really troubled us with their quick and incisive attacks. During that first 25 minutes or so, they often had as many as 5 or 6 men in and around our box and I could understand how that have managed to score so many goals. The big lad in midfield, Mpanzu, was having it his own way and Dillon Phillip’s excellent save from Moncur was a pivotal moment, as they were well on top at that stage.

We gradually worked our way back into the game and were unlucky with Lyle’s shot against the bar after Igor broke away. Luton’s goalie should also have gone, so they had a big slice of luck there. Granted that Igor had put his lob wide but he had to have been put off by the goalie’s reckless challenge and the knowledge that he was about to be poleaxed. I felt that the referee unnecessarily rushed that decision and got it wrong.

The second half was a totally different story, with our midfield utterly dominant, including the imperious Beliek. Every Charlton player raised their game and Luton could barely get out of their own half. Delighted for Lyle and Igor, both of whom worked exceptionally hard and repeatedly stretched the Luton defence. At the back, Bauer and Naby continued their recent excellent form.

The most entertaining 45 minutes that I have seen at Charlton in recent years and a fully deserved and resounding victory, which sets us up beautifully for the end of the season.

The three teams above us need to falter, but we’ve given ourselves a chance of automatic promotion (albeit a slim one) and of easing up to 3rd or 4th in the table. Sunderland and Pompey both have reasonably tough run ins but, as Lee Bowyer says, we just need to look after our own business and see where it takes us.

I see that Oxford drew 0-0 at home to Wimbledon yesterday. Let’s hope they lose a little edge and focus now that they have reached the safe waters of mid-table.

Covered End said:

AddicksAddict said:

Having just watched the highlights, I'd say that was a poor penalty unless he saw which way the 'keeper was going before he kicked it, but the second and third goals were class and you could see a bond between Igor and Lyle.

Taylor stares into the goalies eyes and waits to see which way the goalie goes, before putting the ball the other way.
You have to be able to hold your nerve and have some class to pull it off.
My concern is what will Taylor do, strolling up with little momentum, if the goalie stays still ?

Probably have the same amount of believe in himself and smash it into the bottom corner. 

Sage said:

AddicksAddict said:

PeterGage said:

Redrobo said:

I can’t believe that anyone does not think that the assault on Vetokele 1st half was not a straight red. He was clearly out of control which is a red card. It was reckless, which is a red card, he bought down the last player in a goal scoring opportunity, which is a red card.

I thought we were the better side first half, but they scored a very good goal, Phillips saved a good shot, and they carved one just past the post.

It was not one way traffic though. As said, they should have had a straight red on what was a good scoring opportunity. Taylor was fouled as he then hit the crossbar.

Second half was just wow! Deffo penalty, but was surprised that the the ref spotted it. He had hold of Taylor and tripped him. Thought the Williams one was as well. A very good side were in full panick and lost a lot of control. They are still a good team, just not as good as us when we are full strength.

Hello, Hello, Igor is back, Igor is back!

Fantastic from Igor today. Love the guy and so good to see him score today.

Love Taylor. Not just the way he plays. It is the way he encourages and supports his team mates. Igor is back because of him, and the joy Taylor had in his goal was fantastic, and for his set up for his second. I think he is destined for greater things. Can see him being a politician of some sort. Natural leader and good man. 

Great to meet CatAddict today as well. Thanks mate. Really appreciate it, hope to see you at Oxford. I will buy you a whole pint as well!

It clearly wasnt a red card, using your "language". You used the term "reckless", which defines a caution in the Laws of the Game. The tackle by a player which the referee defines as "using excessive force" is a red card. If that same foul committed by the keeper yesterday was committed on say the halfway line, nobody would be shouting for a red card. Supporter emotion often comes into play when a half chance was thwarted by a foul such as that undertaken by the keeper yesterday.

Nowhere near the ball and took the player out.  Red card all day long.  If you want confirmation, look at the comment further up this thread from the qualified ref.

I don’t know how it can be argued, it’s mind-boggling.

The laws clearly state that a player is to be sent off if, “denying an obvious goal-scoring opportunity to an opponent whose overall movement is towards the offender's goal by an offence punishable by a free kick”.

It could be said that the goalkeeper was guilty of serious foul play as the laws clearly state that a player is to be sent off if, “A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.

Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.”

So it’s interesting how one referee, myself, has a contrasting view to another on here. Using the term, “reckless” is correct for this situation. It’s also interesting how you picked out one term that would favour your opinion but completely ignored another that was used that goes against the opinion that it was only a cautionable offence. But using the term “reckless” also suggests he may have been out of control, not necessarily always the case, but in this situation he was because he had no control of the situation, of his bodily movement and came flying out at Vetokele. He came at speed towards Vetokele, did not win the ball, denied a goal scoring opportunity, was out of control, was reckless, and all of these compiled together can be deemed to have resulted in an act of excessive force too.

It was a red card every single time. 

The other thing is that Peter has the advantage(?) of a single camera angle and replays to make his decision but those if us in the ground only saw it from multiple views and only in real time.  We all thought that there was no attempt to play the ball, with excessive force/brutality (I know Igor is a bit lightweight, but he nearly went into orbit) and on the trajectory of the ball clearly a goal scoring opportunity.

I still say nailed on red and would have no complaints if Dillon had walked for the same offence.

Blucher said:

We gradually worked our way back into the game and were unlucky with Lyle’s shot against the bar after Igor broke away. Luton’s goalie should also have gone, so they had a big slice of luck there. Granted that Igor had put his lob wide but he had to have been put off by the goalie’s reckless challenge and the knowledge that he was about to be poleaxed. I felt that the referee unnecessarily rushed that decision and got it wrong.

Yes, the referee made his decision very quickly. It was in the wrong "quarter" of the pitch for either of the 2 assistants, but maybe he should have consulted the one by the West Stand just to give himself time to think before deciding

Baldybonce said:

Covered End said:

AddicksAddict said:

Having just watched the highlights, I'd say that was a poor penalty unless he saw which way the 'keeper was going before he kicked it, but the second and third goals were class and you could see a bond between Igor and Lyle.

Taylor stares into the goalies eyes and waits to see which way the goalie goes, before putting the ball the other way.
You have to be able to hold your nerve and have some class to pull it off.
My concern is what will Taylor do, strolling up with little momentum, if the goalie stays still ?

Threaten him with that

Careful, you'll have someone's eye out with that.

He is going to back the ref as that is what he does. If it was the other way round and the ref sent Phillips off, he would be backing the ref making a completely different decision. 

To be fair, I think roughly 80% of refs would have sent their keeper off. So in that respect, we were unlucky. I would have sent him off. My son, who is a qualified ref, felt he should have been sent off. What refs seem to hate, and don't seem able to accept is that they interpret the laws differently. As a coach, I have recently seen refs give handball every time the ball hits an arm and have been given the explanation that is what is expected of them now, but we had a great ref this morning who used his judgement. With handball they have got themselves in a hell of a mess.

If you are a ref, you have to make a call and often you might not be sure it is the right one. I think the ref made his call in good faith, but would probably considered sending the keeper off. Then the Williams challenge, which I think Williams played for presented the ref with a call to make and that is when you can get a penalty like we got as the ref has to make another call and the fact he has made two one way means he is more likely to make the next the other.

I was in the East stand and the defender was very silly in terms of where he had his hands. I think Taylor felt them and played for it, but if he didn't feel them he couldn't have made it convincing. The ref would have seen the contact and Taylor going over and it was difficult to gauge the force from his position.

Anyway, I think it was a well deserved win against a decent side. That is the important thing. 

Was talking to my brother yesterday and we agreed to positives are the back 5 and a midfield that when on form is the best in the league. Even yesterday we dominated the second half with Aribo not that good. That midfield will take some beating if on song. 

Three weaknesses was a lack of width, a goal scorer alongside Taylor and nobody off the pitch to help find a goal. Hopefully Igor eliminates one of those, he looked on fire yesterday. We may just have the best 11 in the League right now with Maxwell, Dijksteel, Pearce, Reeves and Lapslie ready to step in plus JFC and Page back in training. 

Only concern is looking at the bench. If we need to find a goal who do we turn to. We have no attacking threat off it. Even a half on song Fosu would be an exciting option. Also might give us some width if we need it. We are going to be fairly predictable for any play off opponents, but we can hope that we are just too good as we was in the second half yesterday. 

Exciting few weeks ahead on the pitch! 

Superb photos of Igor above. 

So happy he got the goal. Despite everything, I believe most of us have really wanted him to succeed.  

Will be interesting to see how he reacts in the next 7 games. 

Or, quite possibly, 4 games when we get to 2nd place

addick05 said:

ForeverAddickted said:

CAFCTrev said:

Fucking deluded

https://www.londonnewsonline.co.uk/luton-town-boss-mick-harford-charlton-penalty-call-was-a-disgrace/

To be fair I'd agree the penalty was soft and probably changed the game in the sense that it brought us level and put more pressure on the Luton defence to make those two mistakes

The fact remains though that Williams should have had a penalty minutes earlier so evened itself up

If anything; Sonny Bradley was an idiot to put himself in a position only moments after that decision when it would have been fresh in the referee's mind

Not sure about the Williams penalty. Thought he was looking for the challenge and as he had been diving all over the place previously he had wound the referee up, so he wan't going to give him anything. I can also see why the keeper wasn't sent off; there were two Luton players goal-side of the incident. Mind you, at the time I couldn't understand how the keeper stayed on the pitch. OK, so Lyle's pen certainly changed the game but we had been getting closer to the equaliser. After that though, we simply played them off the pitch, they simply had no idea how to cope with us.

But sendings off are not just about denying a clear goal scoring opportunity, this was a reckless and dangerous tackle and if it had been an outfield player there would be no question about a red card.