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Road Accident Deaths Involving the Police

Lincsaddick
Lincsaddick Posts: 32,348
in Not Sports Related
As far as I am concerned, this is a very worrying piece of news. We know that the police have a difficult job but it seems that they must find a better way to apprehend 'get aways' other than adrenalin fuelled high speed chases.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49592840


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Comments

  • Pedro45
    Pedro45 Posts: 5,820
    Don't run, don't die.
  • smiffyboy
    smiffyboy Posts: 4,314
    Its a no win situation, chase them and catch them with the risks of death involved or don't chase them and crime will increase because the culprits know they can drive away safe in the knowledge they wont be chased.
  • Lincsaddick
    Lincsaddick Posts: 32,348
    smiffyboy said:
    Its a no win situation, chase them and catch them with the risks of death involved or don't chase them and crime will increase because the culprits know they can drive away safe in the knowledge they wont be chased.
    I was thinking more along the lines of using helicopters .. but of course that would involve a lot more copters, pilots, technology and of course MONEY .. I am sure that this will happen in the future though
  • cantersaddick
    cantersaddick Posts: 16,911
    I read somewhere that Police helicopters cost over £1000 a minute they are in the air. Must be another way? drones? trackers?
  • Lincsaddick
    Lincsaddick Posts: 32,348
    edited September 2019
    cantersaddick said:
    I read somewhere that Police helicopters cost over £1000 a minute they are in the air. Must be another way? drones? trackers?
    drones ! .. of course .. and this piece from the Mirror newspaper suggests that the recent tragic death of PC Andrew Harper was possibly or partially caused by a police vehicle …, QUOTE .. 

    A newlywed PC killed in the line of duty was struck by a police vehicle after being dragged by a van, it is claimed.

    Tragic PC Andrew Harper, 28, died while responding to reports of a burglary and 10 people, including a 13-year-old boy, have been arrested on suspicion of murder.

    The hero cop, who married partner Lissie just four weeks before his death, is believed to have been hit by a 'getaway' van and dragged several hundred yards along the road.

    According to The Times, he was thrown clear from the undercarriage of the vehicle and then struck by a police vehicle, thought to be a dog unit chasing the suspects.

    The tragedy happened at the village of Sulhamstead in Berkshire at 11.30pm on Thursday. UNQUOTE


  • se9addick
    se9addick Posts: 32,034
    Aren’t helicopters (or drones) only able to track the suspects to aid the officers on the ground who are giving chase? How would they be a solution in apprehending the suspects (unless they were armed with missiles !)?
  • SoundAsa£
    SoundAsa£ Posts: 22,477
    edited September 2019
    cantersaddick said:
    I read somewhere that Police helicopters cost over £1000 a minute they are in the air. Must be another way? drones? trackers?
    I doubt that figure is correct......though I agree they are obviously going to be expensive.
  • iainment
    iainment Posts: 8,039
    There must be some sort of realistic risk assessment training given. I think high speed chases are so dangerous, to those involved and to bystanders and should only be undertaken where the risks to life and limb are manageable and minimal.
    If a chase can't happen then it's surely not beyond the police to use other forms of work to identify the miscreants and then arrest them.
  • Addickted
    Addickted Posts: 19,456
    An RPG fired at the escaping vehicle should do the trick.
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  • Dazzler21
    Dazzler21 Posts: 51,344
    edited September 2019
    Pedro45 said:
    Don't run, don't die.
    I kind of agree... More 'Don't run, don't increase your and others risk of death'.

    If one of my loved ones were to die as a result of a police chase, then I would fully blame the suspect/criminal as they caused the chase.


  • Dazzler21
    Dazzler21 Posts: 51,344
    iainment said:
    If a chase can't happen then it's surely not beyond the police to use other forms of work to identify the miscreants and then arrest them.
    Really? you're assuming they're in their own car, face uncovered, kind enough to leave DNA or finger print evidence, already have a record... etc

    There's a reason a chase occurs already. 
  • Chippycafc
    Chippycafc Posts: 14,142
    I have no issue with those that are on the run who end up dead, but obviously innocent bystanders I do, wonder how many are killed by the culprits each year. 
  • iainment
    iainment Posts: 8,039
    edited September 2019
    Dazzler21 said:
    iainment said:
    If a chase can't happen then it's surely not beyond the police to use other forms of work to identify the miscreants and then arrest them.
    Really? you're assuming they're in their own car, face uncovered, kind enough to leave DNA or finger print evidence, already have a record... etc

    There's a reason a chase occurs already. 

    There might be but if it endangers innocent bystanders recklessly then other forms of police work need to be used.
  • Brendan_O_Connell
    Brendan_O_Connell Posts: 8,938

    Easy one this.

    Don't commit a fuckin crime then the police won't have to chase after you and you won't risk dying.

    Any criminal killed running from the police is natural selection in my eyes.

  • iainment
    iainment Posts: 8,039
    Brendan_O_Connell said:

    Easy one this.

    Don't commit a fuckin crime then the police won't have to chase after you and you won't risk dying.

    Any criminal killed running from the police is natural selection in my eyes.

    And if the chaser or chasee kills someone because of the chase?

    Acceptable collateral damage?
  • foresthillred
    foresthillred Posts: 1,436
    Let's put this quote out there.

    "According to the IPCC, over the last 10 years 252 members of the public have died following road traffic incidents involving the police in England and Wales.

    In London alone, there were 498 crashes involving a pursuit by Met officers last year." 


  • foresthillred
    foresthillred Posts: 1,436
    And what about this story as food for thought? Half a mile from where I live, and I have crossed this road many times with my kids. It's a residential area with fairly narrow roads, vehicles parked on both sides, lots of side turnings and plenty of pedestrians. What could possibly go wrong with engaging in a high speed car chase in those circumstances?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-39234086
  • Stu_of_Kunming
    Stu_of_Kunming Posts: 17,116
    What is the alternative, let the criminals drive off?
  • SomervilleAddick
    SomervilleAddick Posts: 3,575
    Depends on what the stop is for.  Armed robbery - go ahead.

    But if it’s speeding or similar, then the risk is greater than the offence.  Even here they know to back off from a chase in a heavily populated area if it’s not a serious crime.  It’s not about the person being chased, it the bystanders that need protection. 

    The info about the crime that initiated the chase is not in the report. 
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  • Stu_of_Kunming
    Stu_of_Kunming Posts: 17,116
    I'm fairly certain that consideration will already happen.
  • i_b_b_o_r_g
    i_b_b_o_r_g Posts: 18,948
    smiffyboy said:
    Its a no win situation, chase them and catch them with the risks of death involved or don't chase them and crime will increase because the culprits know they can drive away safe in the knowledge they wont be chased.
    Already the case with the scooter mobs from what I've learnt on documentaries. Who'd be a copper in this day and age...?
  • Dazzler21
    Dazzler21 Posts: 51,344
    SomervilleAddick said:
    Depends on what the stop is for.  Armed robbery - go ahead.

    But if it’s speeding or similar, then the risk is greater than the offence.  Even here they know to back off from a chase in a heavily populated area if it’s not a serious crime.  It’s not about the person being chased, it the bystanders that need protection. 

    The info about the crime that initiated the chase is not in the report. 
    If they don't pull over there's an extremely high chance that their speeding wasn't their only crime.
  • Dazzler21
    Dazzler21 Posts: 51,344
    foresthillred said:
    And what about this story as food for thought? Half a mile from where I live, and I have crossed this road many times with my kids. It's a residential area with fairly narrow roads, vehicles parked on both sides, lots of side turnings and plenty of pedestrians. What could possibly go wrong with engaging in a high speed car chase in those circumstances?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-39234086
    Think you'll find being spaced out on crack cocaine was the issue there.

    Could quite easily have hit others before that point.
  • rina
    rina Posts: 2,334
    i_b_b_o_r_g said:
    smiffyboy said:
    Its a no win situation, chase them and catch them with the risks of death involved or don't chase them and crime will increase because the culprits know they can drive away safe in the knowledge they wont be chased.
    Already the case with the scooter mobs from what I've learnt on documentaries. Who'd be a copper in this day and age...?
    The Met changed the rules on this a couple of years ago and are now allowed to run down scooters even when the rider doesn't have a helmet. Moped crime dropped by about 40%
  • i_b_b_o_r_g
    i_b_b_o_r_g Posts: 18,948
    rina said:
    i_b_b_o_r_g said:
    smiffyboy said:
    Its a no win situation, chase them and catch them with the risks of death involved or don't chase them and crime will increase because the culprits know they can drive away safe in the knowledge they wont be chased.
    Already the case with the scooter mobs from what I've learnt on documentaries. Who'd be a copper in this day and age...?
    The Met changed the rules on this a couple of years ago and are now allowed to run down scooters even when the rider doesn't have a helmet. Moped crime dropped by about 40%
    Good
  • ValleyGary
    ValleyGary Posts: 37,975
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    I'm fairly certain that consideration will already happen.
    Programmes in the UK about police have shown on many occasions that Police will call off chases if they deem it too dangerous, i.e. residential areas.
  • Stu_of_Kunming
    Stu_of_Kunming Posts: 17,116
    edited September 2019
    ValleyGary said:
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    I'm fairly certain that consideration will already happen.
    Programmes in the UK about police have shown on many occasions that Police will call off chases if they deem it too dangerous, i.e. residential areas.
    Get your stinkin facts out of here, this is for is a hugacrim wokeoff ok.

    We can't be blaming criminal for stuff, have you considered their feelings?
  • T_C_E
    T_C_E Posts: 16,418
    iainment said:
    Brendan_O_Connell said:

    Easy one this.

    Don't commit a fuckin crime then the police won't have to chase after you and you won't risk dying.

    Any criminal killed running from the police is natural selection in my eyes.

    And if the chaser or chasee kills someone because of the chase?

    Acceptable collateral damage?
    If left to continue their chosen career they later select you/yourhome/your loved ones as victims how do you feel then, knowing the police maybe could have stopped them last week?
  • Champs85
    Champs85 Posts: 254
    Every pursuit has to be dynamically risk assessed by both the driver and pursuit commander (usually an inspector in control centre). Regular assessments are provided including driving manner, weather conditions, pedestrian levels, and a grading (high, medium, low). If anyone feels at any point it is too dangerous then the pursuit is terminated. For example, driving the wrong way down a carriageway will automatically be deemed dangerous and police will stop. 

    Unfortunately there are occasions that accidents happen as mentioned. But we cannot just stop chasing people, it would be like opening the gates to hell and crime would soar. 

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