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Road Accident Deaths Involving the Police
Comments
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Afternoon Tom.Champs85 said:Every pursuit has to be dynamically risk assessed by both the driver and pursuit commander (usually an inspector in control centre). Regular assessments are provided including driving manner, weather conditions, pedestrian levels, and a grading (high, medium, low). If anyone feels at any point it is too dangerous then the pursuit is terminated. For example, driving the wrong way down a carriageway will automatically be deemed dangerous and police will stop.
Unfortunately there are occasions that accidents happen as mentioned. But we cannot just stop chasing people, it would be like opening the gates to hell and crime would soar.
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I had a very near miss with a speeding meat wagon last year, November 24th actually. Coming down the A20 in Lee at 01:30, didn't have his sirens on and my rear view mirror had been blocked by a mattress that had been stuffed in the back. By the time I had got to my turn off the wagon was right up my arse and was in a blind spot for side mirrors. I had no idea it was there and it had to swerve around me as I started turning the corner.
Fortunaly I wasn't going very fast so was able to stop in time. Had it hit the side of my car I have no doubt that I would have been in serious trouble.
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That's exactly why you don't block your mirrors folks.8
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I still say arm those police helicoptors with missiles and guns... Chase over job done... No more scum to worry about.... But those that are against police chases, you wouldn't be if it was your property they were drving off with.4
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no easy solutions are there .. ideally, 'chases' would be carried out by aircraft; copters or drones, information relayed back to ground forces who can then get in front of the pursuit and lay in ambush, stingers, blow the tyres out etc. .. whatever, it would not be easy .. oh for an ideal world ((:>)0
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At the price of death?T_C_E said:
If left to continue their chosen career they later select you/yourhome/your loved ones as victims how do you feel then, knowing the police maybe could have stopped them last week?iainment said:
And if the chaser or chasee kills someone because of the chase?Brendan_O_Connell said:Easy one this.
Don't commit a fuckin crime then the police won't have to chase after you and you won't risk dying.
Any criminal killed running from the police is natural selection in my eyes.
Acceptable collateral damage?2 -
Latest annual police figures say 42 people died in RTAs involving the police. 15 of whom were not being pursued by them and who were innocent bystanders.
I don't know about you but if one of my loved ones died this way because of a person being chased for a minor crime I'd be incensed. I think the majority of chases are for relatively minor crimes.
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You think?iainment said:Latest police figures say 42 people died in RTAs involving the police. 15 of whom were not being purued by them and who were innocent bystanders.
I don't know about you but if one of my loved ones died this way because of a person being chased for a minor crime I'd be incensed. I think the majority of chases are for relatively minor crimes.
So you don’t know.2 -
Do you?KBslittlesis said:
You think?iainment said:Latest police figures say 42 people died in RTAs involving the police. 15 of whom were not being purued by them and who were innocent bystanders.
I don't know about you but if one of my loved ones died this way because of a person being chased for a minor crime I'd be incensed. I think the majority of chases are for relatively minor crimes.
So you don’t know.
I don't think many suspects of major crimes - such as murder, rape, serious assault etc - are subject to police chases. I think most are traffic offences.
I'm willing to see the figures but until the police break down their stats for the public we're all left surmising.
I do know that the number of innocent deaths caused by chases is too high and is very worrying to me.1 -
Peter Sutcliffe caught after a routine traffic stop!iainment said:
Do you?KBslittlesis said:
You think?iainment said:Latest police figures say 42 people died in RTAs involving the police. 15 of whom were not being purued by them and who were innocent bystanders.
I don't know about you but if one of my loved ones died this way because of a person being chased for a minor crime I'd be incensed. I think the majority of chases are for relatively minor crimes.
So you don’t know.
I don't think many suspects of major crimes - such as murder, rape, serious assault etc - are subject to police chases. I think most are traffic offences.
I'm willing to see the figures but until the police break down their stats for the public we're all left surmising.
I do know that the number of innocent deaths caused by chases is too high and is very worrying to me.5 - Sponsored links:
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but this was at a routine check 'road block' not a chase .. (I recall when I was in Holland, road blocks were fairly common, the main idea was to catch stoned and drunk drivers)T_C_E said:
Peter Sutcliffe caught after a routine traffic stop!iainment said:
Do you?KBslittlesis said:
You think?iainment said:Latest police figures say 42 people died in RTAs involving the police. 15 of whom were not being purued by them and who were innocent bystanders.
I don't know about you but if one of my loved ones died this way because of a person being chased for a minor crime I'd be incensed. I think the majority of chases are for relatively minor crimes.
So you don’t know.
I don't think many suspects of major crimes - such as murder, rape, serious assault etc - are subject to police chases. I think most are traffic offences.
I'm willing to see the figures but until the police break down their stats for the public we're all left surmising.
I do know that the number of innocent deaths caused by chases is too high and is very worrying to me.
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iainment said:Latest police figures say 42 people died in RTAs involving the police. 15 of whom were not being pursued by them and who were innocent bystanders.
I don't know about you but if one of my loved ones died this way because of a person being chased for a minor crime I'd be incensed. I think the majority of chases are for relatively minor crimes.Your stats are wrong.
The Independent Office for Police Conduct says there were 42 such deaths in 2018/19 across England and Wales.
30 of the deaths were from police pursuit-related incidents and 5 came from emergency response incidents.
Of the 30 pursuit-related fatalities, 20 were the driver or passenger in the pursued vehicle.
A further 10 were in an unrelated vehicle or were a pedestrian hit by the car being pursued.30 were pursuit related, meaning 12 weren't related to chases, this includes 5 fatalities came from other emergency response incidents.
This means 7 were from standard RTA's in which a police car was involved and could have been any other car involved.
It's simply a danger of allowing emergency vehicles in chase or otherwise to travel at excessive speeds.
The lives saved and criminals captured comparatively would for me probably be enough to say that it is worthwhile.
I'd gamble your assumption about the severity of their crimes is wrong also. Unfortunately I don't have the stats for that.
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Merely pointing out that drivers are guilty of more severe crimes than traffic infringements, the police wouldn’t know until after the event. Sutcliffe was driving on false plates, should he been chased if he had driven off?Lincsaddick said:
but this was at a routine check 'road block' not a chase .. (I recall when I was in Holland, road blocks were fairly common, the main idea was to catch stoned and drunk drivers)T_C_E said:
Peter Sutcliffe caught after a routine traffic stop!iainment said:
Do you?KBslittlesis said:
You think?iainment said:Latest police figures say 42 people died in RTAs involving the police. 15 of whom were not being purued by them and who were innocent bystanders.
I don't know about you but if one of my loved ones died this way because of a person being chased for a minor crime I'd be incensed. I think the majority of chases are for relatively minor crimes.
So you don’t know.
I don't think many suspects of major crimes - such as murder, rape, serious assault etc - are subject to police chases. I think most are traffic offences.
I'm willing to see the figures but until the police break down their stats for the public we're all left surmising.
I do know that the number of innocent deaths caused by chases is too high and is very worrying to me.
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If he'd tried to run there would have been a chase.Lincsaddick said:
but this was at a routine check 'road block' not a chase .. (I recall when I was in Holland, road blocks were fairly common, the main idea was to catch stoned and drunk drivers)T_C_E said:
Peter Sutcliffe caught after a routine traffic stop!iainment said:
Do you?KBslittlesis said:
You think?iainment said:Latest police figures say 42 people died in RTAs involving the police. 15 of whom were not being purued by them and who were innocent bystanders.
I don't know about you but if one of my loved ones died this way because of a person being chased for a minor crime I'd be incensed. I think the majority of chases are for relatively minor crimes.
So you don’t know.
I don't think many suspects of major crimes - such as murder, rape, serious assault etc - are subject to police chases. I think most are traffic offences.
I'm willing to see the figures but until the police break down their stats for the public we're all left surmising.
I do know that the number of innocent deaths caused by chases is too high and is very worrying to me.0 -
good point .. would he have been chased ? .. almost certainly I would thinkT_C_E said:
Merely pointing out that drivers are guilty of more severe crimes than traffic infringements, the police wouldn’t know until after the event. Sutcliffe was driving on false plates, should he been chased if he had driven off?Lincsaddick said:
but this was at a routine check 'road block' not a chase .. (I recall when I was in Holland, road blocks were fairly common, the main idea was to catch stoned and drunk drivers)T_C_E said:
Peter Sutcliffe caught after a routine traffic stop!iainment said:
Do you?KBslittlesis said:
You think?iainment said:Latest police figures say 42 people died in RTAs involving the police. 15 of whom were not being purued by them and who were innocent bystanders.
I don't know about you but if one of my loved ones died this way because of a person being chased for a minor crime I'd be incensed. I think the majority of chases are for relatively minor crimes.
So you don’t know.
I don't think many suspects of major crimes - such as murder, rape, serious assault etc - are subject to police chases. I think most are traffic offences.
I'm willing to see the figures but until the police break down their stats for the public we're all left surmising.
I do know that the number of innocent deaths caused by chases is too high and is very worrying to me.
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He stole the car to sell for 300 quid to feed his drug habit. As far as I'm aware, the dangerous driving only began once police started to pursue himSomervilleAddick said:Depends on what the stop is for. Armed robbery - go ahead.
But if it’s speeding or similar, then the risk is greater than the offence. Even here they know to back off from a chase in a heavily populated area if it’s not a serious crime. It’s not about the person being chased, it the bystanders that need protection.
The info about the crime that initiated the chase is not in the report.
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Police called off a chase with the same vehicle for that reason a few days earlier in the same areaValleyGary said:
Programmes in the UK about police have shown on many occasions that Police will call off chases if they deem it too dangerous, i.e. residential areas.Stu_of_Kunming said:I'm fairly certain that consideration will already happen.
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A helicopter following a car involved in a pursuit is still a pursuit. Funnily enough, criminals look up and will do anything to get away.
This is another twisted article from the IOPC. The deaths will also include incidents whereby the vehicle being pursued has crashed.
If you got burgled, robbed or stabbed - you would want the police to pursue. Police drivers who are allowed to pursue go through very high levels of training and levels of pressure. So to say it’s adrenaline fuelled is a bit of an insult when police driver’s generally stay incredibly calm.3 -
I can assure you that you’re wrong.iainment said:
Do you?KBslittlesis said:
You think?iainment said:Latest police figures say 42 people died in RTAs involving the police. 15 of whom were not being purued by them and who were innocent bystanders.
I don't know about you but if one of my loved ones died this way because of a person being chased for a minor crime I'd be incensed. I think the majority of chases are for relatively minor crimes.
So you don’t know.
I don't think many suspects of major crimes - such as murder, rape, serious assault etc - are subject to police chases. I think most are traffic offences.
I'm willing to see the figures but until the police break down their stats for the public we're all left surmising.
I do know that the number of innocent deaths caused by chases is too high and is very worrying to me.2 -
if the cops were shooting dead 50 people a year there would be a national outcry0
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But they're not, are they?Lincsaddick said:if the cops were shooting dead 50 people a year there would be a national outcry0 -
no mush, they are killing them in road chasesOff_it said:
But they're not, are they?Lincsaddick said:if the cops were shooting dead 50 people a year there would be a national outcry
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The fact that people, unfortunately, die during police chases is clearly regrettable. But to suggest the police are "killing" them in the same way as if they shot them just wrong and is actually quite offensive. BUt I suspect you knew that.Lincsaddick said:
no mush, they are killing them in road chasesOff_it said:
But they're not, are they?Lincsaddick said:if the cops were shooting dead 50 people a year there would be a national outcry
For context, there were almost 1,800 road deaths in Britain in 2017 (link https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/744077/reported-road-casualties-annual-report-2017.pdf . )
Assuming there was a similar number in 2018 then, taking the figures above, this means that 1.5% of these deaths involved a police pursuit and only 0.5% were "innocent" people not connected to the chase. Even then, its a leap to say these 10 deaths were directly caused by the police and might not have happened anyway.
It's still too many, of course, but I wonder how many of those other deaths were as a result of, say, speeding - or using a mobile phone?
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I'd like to see that number rise by police wiping out the little shits on scooters that go around armed with hammers & acid............
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Cars should have an engine cut-out device fitted which the police can activate if a driver decides not to stop.1
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How would you isolate the signal so you don't dangerously cut out the engines of other cars?HardyAddick said:Cars should have an engine cut-out device fitted which the police can activate if a driver decides not to stop.0 -
I'm not a tech expert but you must be able to have a cut out device that emits a signal unique to a specific car bit like an iPhone has a find-me feature.2
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Well that's all right then if you say so.RugbyAddick said:
I can assure you that you’re wrong.iainment said:
Do you?KBslittlesis said:
You think?iainment said:Latest police figures say 42 people died in RTAs involving the police. 15 of whom were not being purued by them and who were innocent bystanders.
I don't know about you but if one of my loved ones died this way because of a person being chased for a minor crime I'd be incensed. I think the majority of chases are for relatively minor crimes.
So you don’t know.
I don't think many suspects of major crimes - such as murder, rape, serious assault etc - are subject to police chases. I think most are traffic offences.
I'm willing to see the figures but until the police break down their stats for the public we're all left surmising.
I do know that the number of innocent deaths caused by chases is too high and is very worrying to me.0 -
Don't bother with that. Just get a universal button for all police. Hit it once and every car in the country immediately stops.Dazzler21 said:
How would you isolate the signal so you don't dangerously cut out the engines of other cars?HardyAddick said:Cars should have an engine cut-out device fitted which the police can activate if a driver decides not to stop.2 -
No shit!HardyAddick said:I'm not a tech expert but you must be able to have a cut out device that emits a signal unique to a specific car bit like an iPhone has a find-me feature.
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