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The Takeover Thread - Duchatelet Finally Sells (Jan 2020)

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Comments

  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    i_b_b_o_r_g said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    i_b_b_o_r_g said:
    Anyone know what this bottom bit might mean (Administrator, Administrative Receiver ect.)? -


    It's just a list of people that "could have" filed it.  It's 1 of, not all of them. 
    Take a stab in the dark and guess Director then
    Hopefully it isn't the receiver! 
  • harveys_gardener
    harveys_gardener Posts: 7,038
    edited December 2019
    It is a choice of permitted signatories. As were are not nor likely to be in receivership, those you mention will not apply.  Almost certainly RD as EFI not registered as new owner. Someone needs to clarify any changes to Baton 2010 or whoever else controls CAFC Ltd.  Seems no change.
  • blackpool72
    blackpool72 Posts: 23,729
    Harry Gregory said:
    blackpool72 said:
    Harry Gregory said:
    It is a way of spending money or a way of not spending money. Is it good or is it bad? I don't care much because I much more prefer all this mob to the last two lots, maybe wrong but doubt it.
    Agreed. 
    How are you anyway mate. 
    All ok I hope 
    All good Stevey Boy, anytime you are down this way then let me know.
    Will do Mark 
  • Airman Brown
    Airman Brown Posts: 15,756
    edited December 2019
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Rossman92 said:
    i_b_b_o_r_g said:
    Anyone know what this bottom bit might mean (Administrator, Administrative Receiver ect.)? -


    Would assume that to be the club secretary, so Chris Parkes?
    Is Parkes not "just" the football secretary, not the company sec? 
    It’ll be nothing to do with Chris Parkes. 

    Bearing in mind that the entity which needs to change hands is Baton 2010 Limited - which owns both the football company and holdings limited, which in turn owns the freehold of The Valley and Sparrows Lane - I’m not sure why you would issue new shares in the football company. It does seem likely to be a debt swap.
  • cafcfan
    cafcfan Posts: 11,206
    I'll repeat IMO it's just a bit of cash-free accountancy hocus pocus to switch a property revaluation uplift from the reserve account to equity.  Nothing to see here other than a bit of housekeeping.  (Hopefully by way of preparation for sale).
  • Airman Brown
    Airman Brown Posts: 15,756
    cafcfan said:
    I'll repeat IMO it's just a bit of cash-free accountancy hocus pocus to switch a property revaluation uplift from the reserve account to equity.  Nothing to see here other than a bit of housekeeping.  (Hopefully by way of preparation for sale).
    Agree it’s preparation. It’s not evidence of a sale or a cash injection.
  • HardyAddick
    HardyAddick Posts: 1,638
    Airman Brown said:
    cafcfan said:
    I'll repeat IMO it's just a bit of cash-free accountancy hocus pocus to switch a property revaluation uplift from the reserve account to equity.  Nothing to see here other than a bit of housekeeping.  (Hopefully by way of preparation for sale).
    Agree it’s preparation. It’s not evidence of a sale or a cash injection.
    Could be just tidying up for RD’s end of tax year accounting.
  • CAFCsayer
    CAFCsayer Posts: 10,242
    Airman Brown said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Rossman92 said:
    i_b_b_o_r_g said:
    Anyone know what this bottom bit might mean (Administrator, Administrative Receiver ect.)? -


    Would assume that to be the club secretary, so Chris Parkes?
    Is Parkes not "just" the football secretary, not the company sec? 
    It’ll be nothing to do with Chris Parkes. 

    Bearing in mind that the entity which needs to change hands is Baton 2010 Limited - which owns both the football company and holdings limited, which in turn owns the freehold of The Valley and Sparrows Lane - I’m not sure why you would issue new shares in the football company. It does seem likely to be a debt swap.
    Could this be a bit of creative accounting? Buy the club for 21.5mill and buy the stadium separately for FFP reasons? 
  • Callumcafc
    Callumcafc Posts: 63,838
    cafcfan said:
    I'll repeat IMO it's just a bit of cash-free accountancy hocus pocus to switch a property revaluation uplift from the reserve account to equity.  Nothing to see here other than a bit of housekeeping.  (Hopefully by way of preparation for sale).
    And in English?

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  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 52,067
    There could be an announcement Monday or Tuesday I reckon.
  • Airman Brown
    Airman Brown Posts: 15,756
    CAFCsayer said:
    Airman Brown said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Rossman92 said:
    i_b_b_o_r_g said:
    Anyone know what this bottom bit might mean (Administrator, Administrative Receiver ect.)? -


    Would assume that to be the club secretary, so Chris Parkes?
    Is Parkes not "just" the football secretary, not the company sec? 
    It’ll be nothing to do with Chris Parkes. 

    Bearing in mind that the entity which needs to change hands is Baton 2010 Limited - which owns both the football company and holdings limited, which in turn owns the freehold of The Valley and Sparrows Lane - I’m not sure why you would issue new shares in the football company. It does seem likely to be a debt swap.
    Could this be a bit of creative accounting? Buy the club for 21.5mill and buy the stadium separately for FFP reasons? 
    Don’t see that you’d need to issue new shares to do that. 
  • i_b_b_o_r_g
    i_b_b_o_r_g Posts: 18,948
    Covered End said:
    There could be an announcement Monday or Tuesday I reckon.
    The weekend is critical
  • Mendonca In Asdas
    Mendonca In Asdas Posts: 22,669
    i_b_b_o_r_g said:
    Covered End said:
    There could be an announcement Monday or Tuesday I reckon.
    The weekend is critical
    The next 2 weeks are vital.
  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    Airman Brown said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Rossman92 said:
    i_b_b_o_r_g said:
    Anyone know what this bottom bit might mean (Administrator, Administrative Receiver ect.)? -


    Would assume that to be the club secretary, so Chris Parkes?
    Is Parkes not "just" the football secretary, not the company sec? 
    It’ll be nothing to do with Chris Parkes. 
    That's what I just said 
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 69,983
    Seems like the sort of finance structural tidying up you'd do before a takeover, otherwise why do it now?
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    What does it all mean?
    Roland owns the club. Is he breaking it up into 21 million bits.... Or 65 million on account of staprix, and giving them to himself?
  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    Airman Brown said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Rossman92 said:
    i_b_b_o_r_g said:
    Anyone know what this bottom bit might mean (Administrator, Administrative Receiver ect.)? -


    Would assume that to be the club secretary, so Chris Parkes?
    Is Parkes not "just" the football secretary, not the company sec? 
    It’ll be nothing to do with Chris Parkes. 

    Bearing in mind that the entity which needs to change hands is Baton 2010 Limited - which owns both the football company and holdings limited, which in turn owns the freehold of The Valley and Sparrows Lane - I’m not sure why you would issue new shares in the football company. It does seem likely to be a debt swap.
    As a point of order if Baton owned 100% of the football company, then new shares are issued to a 3rd party, reducing Batons holding to 20%, that would in effect separate the football and property companies? 
  • mascot88
    mascot88 Posts: 9,654
    Looks like this weekend could be absolutely crucial... 
  • Airman Brown
    Airman Brown Posts: 15,756
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Airman Brown said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Rossman92 said:
    i_b_b_o_r_g said:
    Anyone know what this bottom bit might mean (Administrator, Administrative Receiver ect.)? -


    Would assume that to be the club secretary, so Chris Parkes?
    Is Parkes not "just" the football secretary, not the company sec? 
    It’ll be nothing to do with Chris Parkes. 
    That's what I just said 
    Yes, I was agreeing with you.

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  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick Posts: 29,200
    Covered End said:
    There could be an announcement Monday or Tuesday I reckon.
    Don't you start :p
  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 52,067
    seth plum said:
    What does it all mean?
    Roland owns the club. Is he breaking it up into 21 million bits.... Or 65 million on account of staprix, and giving them to himself?
    Cafcfan told us what it is twice.
    Lastly at 9.59pm.
    I think he's right from memory. 
  • Airman Brown
    Airman Brown Posts: 15,756
    edited December 2019
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Airman Brown said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Rossman92 said:
    i_b_b_o_r_g said:
    Anyone know what this bottom bit might mean (Administrator, Administrative Receiver ect.)? -


    Would assume that to be the club secretary, so Chris Parkes?
    Is Parkes not "just" the football secretary, not the company sec? 
    It’ll be nothing to do with Chris Parkes. 

    Bearing in mind that the entity which needs to change hands is Baton 2010 Limited - which owns both the football company and holdings limited, which in turn owns the freehold of The Valley and Sparrows Lane - I’m not sure why you would issue new shares in the football company. It does seem likely to be a debt swap.
    As a point of order if Baton owned 100% of the football company, then new shares are issued to a 3rd party, reducing Batons holding to 20%, that would in effect separate the football and property companies? 
    However we have no evidence they have been issued to a third party at this point. Also have to think how the ex-directors’ loans would play into this, if at all, given the loans are secured on the assets.
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    cafcfan said:
    I'll repeat IMO it's just a bit of cash-free accountancy hocus pocus to switch a property revaluation uplift from the reserve account to equity.  Nothing to see here other than a bit of housekeeping.  (Hopefully by way of preparation for sale).
    Yeah.
    I am unfamiliar with what the terms mean. It seems to mean something like taking your money from the penny jar to the counting machine and converting it into vouchers. Or maybe getting a loft conversion paid for from savings, so the money is in your house rather than your ISA
  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    Airman Brown said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Airman Brown said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Rossman92 said:
    i_b_b_o_r_g said:
    Anyone know what this bottom bit might mean (Administrator, Administrative Receiver ect.)? -


    Would assume that to be the club secretary, so Chris Parkes?
    Is Parkes not "just" the football secretary, not the company sec? 
    It’ll be nothing to do with Chris Parkes. 
    That's what I just said 
    Yes, I was agreeing with you.
    Sorry its some times hard to tell 
  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    Airman Brown said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Airman Brown said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Rossman92 said:
    i_b_b_o_r_g said:
    Anyone know what this bottom bit might mean (Administrator, Administrative Receiver ect.)? -


    Would assume that to be the club secretary, so Chris Parkes?
    Is Parkes not "just" the football secretary, not the company sec? 
    It’ll be nothing to do with Chris Parkes. 

    Bearing in mind that the entity which needs to change hands is Baton 2010 Limited - which owns both the football company and holdings limited, which in turn owns the freehold of The Valley and Sparrows Lane - I’m not sure why you would issue new shares in the football company. It does seem likely to be a debt swap.
    As a point of order if Baton owned 100% of the football company, then new shares are issued to a 3rd party, reducing Batons holding to 20%, that would in effect separate the football and property companies? 
    However we have no evidence they have been issued to a third party at this point. Also have to think how the ex-directors’ loans would play into this, if at all, given the loans are secured on the assets.
    The directors only have to agree to it.  In real terms the 7 odd million is small fry.  I am not sure how company law clashes with the efl rules.

    Could a 3rd party invest money, secured against shares, without passing the test?  Actually they can because of share issues etc thinking out loud but this could mean many things. 
  • Sage
    Sage Posts: 7,282
    Airman Brown said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Airman Brown said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Rossman92 said:
    i_b_b_o_r_g said:
    Anyone know what this bottom bit might mean (Administrator, Administrative Receiver ect.)? -


    Would assume that to be the club secretary, so Chris Parkes?
    Is Parkes not "just" the football secretary, not the company sec? 
    It’ll be nothing to do with Chris Parkes. 

    Bearing in mind that the entity which needs to change hands is Baton 2010 Limited - which owns both the football company and holdings limited, which in turn owns the freehold of The Valley and Sparrows Lane - I’m not sure why you would issue new shares in the football company. It does seem likely to be a debt swap.
    As a point of order if Baton owned 100% of the football company, then new shares are issued to a 3rd party, reducing Batons holding to 20%, that would in effect separate the football and property companies? 
    However we have no evidence they have been issued to a third party at this point. Also have to think how the ex-directors’ loans would play into this, if at all, given the loans are secured on the assets.
    And all ex-directors loans remain outstanding on the companies house. Not that they need to be dealt with right now. But it does seem to be a tidy up to allow the final process to go through soon.
  • Alwaysneil
    Alwaysneil Posts: 13,822
    Haven’t reviewed the accounts for this point.

    When you issue shares they are issued for some consideration. 

    The recipient of the shares will either have:
    paid cash
    released a loan that was owed to it by the football company
    delivered some other asset to the football company (which could be an intangible asset (made up asset) such as goodwill or the right to the EFL license or something

    i don’t think that shifting the revaluation reserve to another reserve would need a share issue. You would need directors resolution but that would be all inside the company and would not give rise to consideration being given for the issue of the shares.

    Does sound positive for the takeover though as looks like a ore-completion step to the sale and you don’t normally do those u too you have the kid from the regulators. 
  • i_b_b_o_r_g
    i_b_b_o_r_g Posts: 18,948
    Could it be that His Sheikness will be buying the shares, so he doesn't have to do the Fit & Proper test?
  • LargeAddick
    LargeAddick Posts: 32,648
    Clem_Snide said:
    LargeAddick said:
    Sorry, how do we know the shares are £ each, couldn’t it be a penny, or ten pounds etc?
    The fact that the companies House document says each share is valued at £1 is kind of a clue.
    Sorry but I haven’t seen that on the document shown on here otherwise I obviously wouldn’t have asked.
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