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The Takeover Thread - Duchatelet Finally Sells (Jan 2020)

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  • Airman Brown
    Airman Brown Posts: 15,722
    edited December 2019
    i_b_b_o_r_g said:
    Could it be that His Sheikness will be buying the shares, so he doesn't have to do the Fit & Proper test?
    Any person with significant control has to be approved by the EFL. The way round this is to hide behind family trusts in the BVI, as Kevin Cash did, although it backfired later.

    Company ownership is independent of the EFL and they can’t dictate who owns the company, but they can - ultimately - expel a club from the league for not complying with its rules, which wouldn’t be great for the company so amounts to the same thing.
  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    Airman Brown said:
    i_b_b_o_r_g said:
    Could it be that His Sheikness will be buying the shares, so he doesn't have to do the Fit & Proper test?
    Any person with significant control has to be approved by the EFL. The way round this is to hide behind family trusts in the BVI, as Kevin Cash did, although it backfired later.

    Company ownership is independent of the EFL and they can’t dictate who owns the company, but they can - ultimately - expel a club from the league for not complying with its rules, which wouldn’t be great for the company so amounts to the same thing.
    But would 80% of the "football company" meet that criteria?  Its probably about 30% of Batons booked value?

    You can't run fit and proper tests on a share issue, for example?  Man United have been floated on many diffrent markets, at different times, and man city sold a big stake to "Chinese investors".

    I agree that this doesn't smack as "its happening" but something HAS happened. 
  • Airman Brown
    Airman Brown Posts: 15,722
    edited December 2019
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Airman Brown said:
    i_b_b_o_r_g said:
    Could it be that His Sheikness will be buying the shares, so he doesn't have to do the Fit & Proper test?
    Any person with significant control has to be approved by the EFL. The way round this is to hide behind family trusts in the BVI, as Kevin Cash did, although it backfired later.

    Company ownership is independent of the EFL and they can’t dictate who owns the company, but they can - ultimately - expel a club from the league for not complying with its rules, which wouldn’t be great for the company so amounts to the same thing.
    But would 80% of the "football company" meet that criteria?  Its probably about 30% of Batons booked value?

    You can't run fit and proper tests on a share issue, for example?  Man United have been floated on many diffrent markets, at different times, and man city sold a big stake to "Chinese investors".

    I agree that this doesn't smack as "its happening" but something HAS happened. 
    It’s the football company that holds the membership of the league. If you controlled 80 percent of that it’s you they would be interested in first, because it’s football activities they oversee. 

    So, for example, it’s got nothing to do with the EFL who owns the freehold of The Valley, as long as the team can fulfil its fixtures. 
  • Dippenhall
    Dippenhall Posts: 3,918
    From what I can make out there were only around 6.5m shares allotted prior to this allocation of these 26+m shares. So gives around 80% of shares to whoever owns them. Can’t see it can be anyone other than Roland who has injected cash for equity otherwise it would amount to a change of club ownership without EFL approval.
    Assume that RD gets it back on acquisition as an addition to the sale price.
    It’s a way cash could be provided to back up any committed spending that the new owners have sanctioned but are unable to legally fund before EFL approval.
    Could be the “strange” idea LB was told about. Might also explain why RD is bitching about the delay, he didn't include a charge for interest as he thought the deal would be closed in a few days.
  • Airman Brown
    Airman Brown Posts: 15,722
    Dippenhall said:
    From what I can make out there were only around 6.5m shares allotted prior to this allocation of these 26+m shares. So gives around 80% of shares to whoever owns them. Can’t see it can be anyone other than Roland who has injected cash for equity otherwise it would amount to a change of club ownership without EFL approval.
    Assume that RD gets it back on acquisition as an addition to the sale price.
    It’s a way cash could be provided to back up any committed spending that the new owners have sanctioned but are unable to legally fund before EFL approval.
    Could be the “strange” idea LB was told about. Might also explain why RD is bitching about the delay, he didn't include a charge for interest as he thought the deal would be closed in a few days.
    Have been told that he is worried about paying the December wages, although personally I find it odd that he would expect otherwise since he must have collected the revenue and he employed the staff.

    i highly doubt Lee Bowyer would know anything at all about shares or comment about it if he did. The speculation from within is that the “strange” comment related to his contract.
  • RedChaser
    RedChaser Posts: 19,885
    edited December 2019
    Good post by Dippenhall who knows his way around company accounts 👍.
  • i_b_b_o_r_g
    i_b_b_o_r_g Posts: 18,948
    edited December 2019
    Airman Brown said:
    Dippenhall said:
    From what I can make out there were only around 6.5m shares allotted prior to this allocation of these 26+m shares. So gives around 80% of shares to whoever owns them. Can’t see it can be anyone other than Roland who has injected cash for equity otherwise it would amount to a change of club ownership without EFL approval.
    Assume that RD gets it back on acquisition as an addition to the sale price.
    It’s a way cash could be provided to back up any committed spending that the new owners have sanctioned but are unable to legally fund before EFL approval.
    Could be the “strange” idea LB was told about. Might also explain why RD is bitching about the delay, he didn't include a charge for interest as he thought the deal would be closed in a few days.
    Have been told that he is worried about paying the December wages, although personally I find it odd that he would expect otherwise since he must have collected the revenue and he employed the staff.

    i highly doubt Lee Bowyer would know anything at all about shares or comment about it if he did. The speculation from within is that the “strange” comment related to his contract.
    Reckon the "strange" comment could also allude to MS and maybe Nimer maybe saying that everything had to start going through them, before the take-over had been completed?
  • cantersaddick
    cantersaddick Posts: 16,906
    Looks to me like Roland converting his loans to equity for whatever reason - presumably to smooth the sale.

    So what the former CFO told the fans forum about loans being 'quasi-equity' may actually turn out to be correct.
  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    Airman Brown said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Airman Brown said:
    i_b_b_o_r_g said:
    Could it be that His Sheikness will be buying the shares, so he doesn't have to do the Fit & Proper test?
    Any person with significant control has to be approved by the EFL. The way round this is to hide behind family trusts in the BVI, as Kevin Cash did, although it backfired later.

    Company ownership is independent of the EFL and they can’t dictate who owns the company, but they can - ultimately - expel a club from the league for not complying with its rules, which wouldn’t be great for the company so amounts to the same thing.
    But would 80% of the "football company" meet that criteria?  Its probably about 30% of Batons booked value?

    You can't run fit and proper tests on a share issue, for example?  Man United have been floated on many diffrent markets, at different times, and man city sold a big stake to "Chinese investors".

    I agree that this doesn't smack as "its happening" but something HAS happened. 
    It’s the football company that holds the membership of the league. If you controlled 80 percent of that it’s you they would be interested in first, because it’s football activities they oversee. 

    So, for example, it’s got nothing to do with the EFL who owns the freehold of The Valley, as long as the team can fulfil its fixtures. 
    Is it or is it actually Baton? Symantics but legally a big difference 
  • SomervilleAddick
    SomervilleAddick Posts: 3,575
    cantersaddick said:
    Looks to me like Roland converting his loans to equity for whatever reason - presumably to smooth the sale.

    So what the former CFO told the fans forum about loans being 'quasi-equity' may actually turn out to be correct.
    I don’t know whether shariah finance plays into this. The prohibition of interest bearing loans may require Roland to convert the debt to equity to avoid the appearance of repaying debt plus interest as part of the transaction. 

    Or or they could just be structuring this in a way that is tax efficient for one or both parties. 
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  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 50,611
    I’m a little drunk but my understanding of this development is somewhat lacking.
  • Airman Brown
    Airman Brown Posts: 15,722
    edited December 2019
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Airman Brown said:
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Airman Brown said:
    i_b_b_o_r_g said:
    Could it be that His Sheikness will be buying the shares, so he doesn't have to do the Fit & Proper test?
    Any person with significant control has to be approved by the EFL. The way round this is to hide behind family trusts in the BVI, as Kevin Cash did, although it backfired later.

    Company ownership is independent of the EFL and they can’t dictate who owns the company, but they can - ultimately - expel a club from the league for not complying with its rules, which wouldn’t be great for the company so amounts to the same thing.
    But would 80% of the "football company" meet that criteria?  Its probably about 30% of Batons booked value?

    You can't run fit and proper tests on a share issue, for example?  Man United have been floated on many diffrent markets, at different times, and man city sold a big stake to "Chinese investors".

    I agree that this doesn't smack as "its happening" but something HAS happened. 
    It’s the football company that holds the membership of the league. If you controlled 80 percent of that it’s you they would be interested in first, because it’s football activities they oversee. 

    So, for example, it’s got nothing to do with the EFL who owns the freehold of The Valley, as long as the team can fulfil its fixtures. 
    Is it or is it actually Baton? Symantics but legally a big difference 
    Baton owns everything the football company owns, but it would seem to be nonsense for it to hold the membership outside the football company as it does not trade except through its subsidiaries. There is also the fact that the football company pre-existed Baton and its predecessor (the plc).
  • Bedsaddick
    Bedsaddick Posts: 24,718
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    I’m a little drunk but my understanding of this development is somewhat lacking.
    I’ve not touched a drop and I’m in the same boat . It’s hard to know what’s good or bad news on this thread . 
  • Charltonparklane
    Charltonparklane Posts: 5,786
    20%
    70%
    10%
  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick Posts: 29,012
    KiwiValley said:
    if, like me, you are struggling to understand this accountancy stuff here’s a picture of a cat . Enjoy. 
    I do like a nice pussy.
  • TellyTubby
    TellyTubby Posts: 3,549
    SoundAsa£ said:
    addick100 said:
    Anyone got any concrete updates from the EFL? Didnt someone here used to have a pal working there?
    That was Addickted, however the guy no longer works for the EFL.......unfortunately.
    OMG, our double agent was discovered,  I hope his/her end was swift and not made to suffer. "You will be taken to the New Den and not be offered a blindfold."
  • soapboxsam
    soapboxsam Posts: 23,229
    edited December 2019
    Can we convert this news into a house buying analogy so we know where we are in the chain ?
  • Elthamaddick
    Elthamaddick Posts: 15,806
    soapboxsam said:
    Can we convert this news into a house buying analogy so we know where we are in the chain ?
    Both parties ready and waiting to exchange but solicitors pissing about with the final bits of paperwork 
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  • oohaahmortimer
    oohaahmortimer Posts: 34,141
    SoundAsa£ said:
    killerandflash said:
    Alwaysneil said:
    What a miserable bunch Charlton fans can be. 

    Let is be clear, there is a potential chairman who used to be a football agent and has, as one might expect, decent PR skills and a desire to do well for himself financially.

    The primary investment vehicle is run by the man who runs the private family office of one of the six ruling families of an oil state. His job is to diversify the oil money into long term investments that are successful reputationally and financially.

    I’m sure he may have had some failures along the way but I am also sure he is not where he is by having failed often.

    Let’s just hope we get rid of Duchatelet soon and then if there are issues with the new plans, let us engage with the new owners at an appropriate time with any concerns.

    I would not expect any regime to be perfect. Anyone who does probably needs to visit their doctor. 

    At the end of the day why would ANYONE buy a Championship football club, a division where clubs make horrible losses?

    There are a TINY number of owners who happen to be be fabulously rich AND genuinely support the club, but the rest of the them are doing it for more complicated motives, whether ego, personal or national prestige, politics, the desire to tap the PL money bucket etc.  That is the reality of modern day football, and unless you can find a local billionaire who stood on the Covered End in his youth, the only likely option for a new owner.
    I came pretty close on a couple of occasions..............but sadly no cigar! :'(
    Are you Australian by any chance SoundAsa£ ? 
  • soapboxsam
    soapboxsam Posts: 23,229
    Elthamaddick said:
    soapboxsam said:
    Can we convert this news into a house buying analogy so we know where we are in the chain ?
    Both parties ready and waiting to exchange but solicitors pissing about with the final bits of paperwork 
    Could this come under a Katrien Meire quote ?
    It's the Royal mail's fault !
  • Scoham
    Scoham Posts: 37,363

  • RedChaser
    RedChaser Posts: 19,885
    edited December 2019
    Those of you not familiar with Dippenhall's ability to analyse and interpret a balance sheet, cast your minds back over the last 3 to 4 years when IIRC  he did a very thorough job on the annual accounts produced by the regime. Not that others views should be dismissed but his take on the movement in share capital is certainly credible.
  • i_b_b_o_r_g
    i_b_b_o_r_g Posts: 18,948
    Can anyone please explain -

    - How shared are made and how they generate instant cash?
    - Are they literally introduced to the stock market and bought up straight away?
    - How clubs / companies (Man U) can be "refloated" on the markets time and again?

    I'm sure it ain't just me on here who don't understand all this
  • Macronate
    Macronate Posts: 12,890
    ElfsborgAddick said:
    KiwiValley said:
    if, like me, you are struggling to understand this accountancy stuff here’s a picture of a cat . Enjoy. 
    I do like a nice pussy.

  • Scoham
    Scoham Posts: 37,363
    Two years ago today we got the news on the OS that KM had resigned and the club was for sale.
  • KiwiValley
    KiwiValley Posts: 3,378
    edited December 2019
    .
  • cfgs
    cfgs Posts: 11,474
    When we eventually get the news we have been waiting for I don't want this thread to slip into oblivion. It has had everything; the full range of human emotions, history lessons and a fair bit of silliness, actually it is mostly silliness. 
    But this opus should be closed but remain a sticky so future generations can learn, how  unique this generation of Addicks were.

    Save the mighty opus for posterity.
  • Pedro45
    Pedro45 Posts: 5,821
    edited December 2019
    I think the £21.5 million might equal the debt we have lost over the last three years. If so, it could be a move by RD to transfer this debt into equity (as he can do under FFP rules) which in turn means that (maybe) the new owners will take over the club with no historic loss on the accounts as far as FFP is concerned. This is important as you can only rack up losses of three times your revenue over a three year period so will give the new guys a chance to really throw some cash into transfers etc if they can/want to without recourse to RD's loss making seasons. Hope so...
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