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The Takeover Thread - Duchatelet Finally Sells (Jan 2020)
Comments
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I can't imagine Roland taking on any risk in this. So that must mean either:
a) the deal is going through very soon;
b) he's been promised to be paid back even if it doesn't go through;
c) he's decided to inject 20 million of his own money as a parting good gesture to the fans.
Some seem more likely than others.12 -
Thanks for the info. Just got 10/1 sky bet.Covered_End_Lad said:Charlton are currently 9/1 to finish top half this season - I’ve stuck 20 on it, with. Bit of investment in January we could make up 6 points easy.3 -
How much did you have on, 9/1 nowStrikerFirmani said:
Thanks for the info. Just got 10/1 sky bet.Covered_End_Lad said:Charlton are currently 9/1 to finish top half this season - I’ve stuck 20 on it, with. Bit of investment in January we could make up 6 points easy.5 -
RD is pissed off for shelling out what he should have shelled out already and puts up purchase price.CAFCsayer said:
What if they were not to get EFL clearance though?Dippenhall said:
More or less.CAFCsayer said:
In all seriousness @Dippenhall is that how you're interpreting this? In layman's terms, does this look like a short term cash injection by Roland, which ESI will be paying him back on completion?CAFCsayer said:
21.5 million warchest for Bowyer in Jan confirmed by Dippenhal... There you have itDippenhall said:The statement of capital deposited with Companies House says "No shares allocated other than for cash". This would rule out shares being issued to a creditor for cancellation of debt. It also means a huge dilution in respect of the existing 6.5m shares so only works if RD retains ownership of 100% of shares. I.E If Charlton is valued at £50m then each of 6.5m shares was worth about £8. Each share of the 33m shares is now worth around £1.50.
The share restructure has no impact on the profit and loss figures because the cash is not revenue, it is shareholder capital. It only affects the profit and loss account if it is spent. The balance sheet will be completely restructured after the change of ownership so see no reason why RD would want to mess about with reducing debt it in advance.
Makes more logic if it is to permit the sale to go through and generate a legitimate fund of cash for meeting commitments to sustain the club in the short term that is effectively a loan from RD dressed up as equity, rather than paper adjustments to RD's mix of share/debt only affecting the balance sheet. Not saying I know anything but just trying to apply logic - dangerous when it comes to RD I know.
I am buying a house that needs renovation. I've exchanged contracts but the roof needs replacing this week before it collapses. The owner agrees to get it fixed and I add the additional cost to the purchase price on completion. Otherwise the owner's property goes down in value and the purchaser walks away or the purchaser acquires a house without a roof.1 -
Let me have a maximum of 27.22 and then suspended the market... 17/2 on betfairNumbers said:
How much did you have on, 9/1 nowStrikerFirmani said:
Thanks for the info. Just got 10/1 sky bet.Covered_End_Lad said:Charlton are currently 9/1 to finish top half this season - I’ve stuck 20 on it, with. Bit of investment in January we could make up 6 points easy.2 -
Tahnoon On Tour
Looks like the new board are having a great time down at the Valley - let’s hope they get the deal ratified soon and we can all wave goodbye to the 🐀
#UpTheAddicks
1 -
one question - do you have an outside toilet?Cafc43v3r said:
I'll try, using a house as an examplei_b_b_o_r_g said:Can anyone please explain -
- How shared are made and how they generate instant cash?
- Are they literally introduced to the stock market and bought up straight away?
- How clubs / companies (Man U) can be "refloated" on the markets time and again?
I'm sure it ain't just me on here who don't understand all this
You buy a house for £100,000 (I live in Bradford so it is realistic).
You put in £40k and get a mortgage for £60k. If you think of that as a 100 shares in "the house" you own 40, the bank own 60. Every year you buy 2 shares back off the bank. So after 10 years you own 60 and the bank own 40.
If you sell the house for 120k (a take over) the new owner buys all the shares, both yours and the banks. They may do so as an individual or as a consortium (a bank normally being the money man).
Fowever if you sell some of your shares to a 3rd party you "trouser the cash" but own less of the house.
Every time a house is mortgaged it's a bit like a share issue, and you slowly buy back the shares. Once you own enough of the shares you can remortgage, or issue more shares.3 -
Shocking effort.ricky_otto said:
one question - do you have an outside toilet?Cafc43v3r said:
I'll try, using a house as an examplei_b_b_o_r_g said:Can anyone please explain -
- How shared are made and how they generate instant cash?
- Are they literally introduced to the stock market and bought up straight away?
- How clubs / companies (Man U) can be "refloated" on the markets time and again?
I'm sure it ain't just me on here who don't understand all this
You buy a house for £100,000 (I live in Bradford so it is realistic).
You put in £40k and get a mortgage for £60k. If you think of that as a 100 shares in "the house" you own 40, the bank own 60. Every year you buy 2 shares back off the bank. So after 10 years you own 60 and the bank own 40.
If you sell the house for 120k (a take over) the new owner buys all the shares, both yours and the banks. They may do so as an individual or as a consortium (a bank normally being the money man).
Fowever if you sell some of your shares to a 3rd party you "trouser the cash" but own less of the house.
Every time a house is mortgaged it's a bit like a share issue, and you slowly buy back the shares. Once you own enough of the shares you can remortgage, or issue more shares.0 -
Or to put it even simpler, Sally has four apples, then she gets a loan on the fourth apple to make five apples and a donut, carry the three, divide by seven, and there you have it.Cafc43v3r said:
I'll try, using a house as an examplei_b_b_o_r_g said:Can anyone please explain -
- How shared are made and how they generate instant cash?
- Are they literally introduced to the stock market and bought up straight away?
- How clubs / companies (Man U) can be "refloated" on the markets time and again?
I'm sure it ain't just me on here who don't understand all this
You buy a house for £100,000 (I live in Bradford so it is realistic).
You put in £40k and get a mortgage for £60k. If you think of that as a 100 shares in "the house" you own 40, the bank own 60. Every year you buy 2 shares back off the bank. So after 10 years you own 60 and the bank own 40.
If you sell the house for 120k (a take over) the new owner buys all the shares, both yours and the banks. They may do so as an individual or as a consortium (a bank normally being the money man).
Fowever if you sell some of your shares to a 3rd party you "trouser the cash" but own less of the house.
Every time a house is mortgaged it's a bit like a share issue, and you slowly buy back the shares. Once you own enough of the shares you can remortgage, or issue more shares.10 -
ricky_otto said:
one question - do you have an outside toilet?Cafc43v3r said:
I'll try, using a house as an examplei_b_b_o_r_g said:Can anyone please explain -
- How shared are made and how they generate instant cash?
- Are they literally introduced to the stock market and bought up straight away?
- How clubs / companies (Man U) can be "refloated" on the markets time and again?
I'm sure it ain't just me on here who don't understand all this
You buy a house for £100,000 (I live in Bradford so it is realistic).
You put in £40k and get a mortgage for £60k. If you think of that as a 100 shares in "the house" you own 40, the bank own 60. Every year you buy 2 shares back off the bank. So after 10 years you own 60 and the bank own 40.
If you sell the house for 120k (a take over) the new owner buys all the shares, both yours and the banks. They may do so as an individual or as a consortium (a bank normally being the money man).
Fowever if you sell some of your shares to a 3rd party you "trouser the cash" but own less of the house.
Every time a house is mortgaged it's a bit like a share issue, and you slowly buy back the shares. Once you own enough of the shares you can remortgage, or issue more shares.
Such a cliched and patronisingly southern comment.
Btw did you convert it into a whippet kennel or a pigeon loft?7 -
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I opened a Bet Victor account yesterday so I could get involved. Got 10/1.CAFCsayer said:
Let me have a maximum of 27.22 and then suspended the market... 17/2 on betfairNumbers said:
How much did you have on, 9/1 nowStrikerFirmani said:
Thanks for the info. Just got 10/1 sky bet.Covered_End_Lad said:Charlton are currently 9/1 to finish top half this season - I’ve stuck 20 on it, with. Bit of investment in January we could make up 6 points easy.0 -
That's not him though, is it?TheAddicks4Ever said:Tahnoon On Tour
Looks like the new board are having a great time down at the Valley - let’s hope they get the deal ratified soon and we can all wave goodbye to the 🐀
#UpTheAddicks0 -
Another house buying analogy.
You view the house.
You agree a price.
You instruct a solicitor.
The week before you exchange contracts the outgoing owner sells bits of the garden as allotments.0 -
Unable to say, but have just sorted 21.5M shares.Numbers said:
How much did you have on, 9/1 nowStrikerFirmani said:
Thanks for the info. Just got 10/1 sky bet.Covered_End_Lad said:Charlton are currently 9/1 to finish top half this season - I’ve stuck 20 on it, with. Bit of investment in January we could make up 6 points easy.3 -
You can do additional share offerings easily enough as long as there is demand for it and the board and existing shareholders approve it but by creating new shares you water down the value of the existing ones. So, if there are 10 shares in a company worth £10 each share is worth £1. If you issue 10 more shares but do nothing to increase the value of the company then it now has 20 shares and is still worth £10 so each share is now worth 50p... Not necessarily good value for the existing shareholders. If, as is the case here, there is only one shareholder (RD currently) then it really is inconsequential as you own all of the shares.i_b_b_o_r_g said:Can anyone please explain -
- How shared are made and how they generate instant cash?
- Are they literally introduced to the stock market and bought up straight away?
- How clubs / companies (Man U) can be "refloated" on the markets time and again?
I'm sure it ain't just me on here who don't understand all this
Charlton is now a Private LTD Company, not a publicly floated company so they are not issued via the stock exchange. They are simply issued by RD and bought by RD (with assistance from professional advisors).
I am not sure of Man Utds background but, as above, companies can issue new shares at any time if they have the right approvals in place. In addition PLC's (publicly quoted companies on the stock market) can be taken Private by someone buying up all of their shares for their own private ownership, and if that Individual wanted to exit the business in future they could re-float them back onto the stock exchange if there was demand for their shares. There are very significant fees to pay each time you take a business private or re-float it so it is not likely to happen regularly.1 -
No, Sasa Ilic has had some work done.Uboat said:
That's not him though, is it?TheAddicks4Ever said:Tahnoon On Tour
Looks like the new board are having a great time down at the Valley - let’s hope they get the deal ratified soon and we can all wave goodbye to the 🐀
#UpTheAddicks3 -
Just for the sake of clarity, not all (far from it in fact) PLCs are listed on a stock market. It is a common misconception and impresses the general public but anybody can set up a PLC for an initial outlay of as little as £12,500. This explains it rather well https://www.lawdonut.co.uk/business/finance-and-business-strategy/floating-your-business/becoming-a-plc-without-a-listing Note that it is a reason why a revaluation reserve might be converted to equity.Athletico Charlton said:
You can do additional share offerings easily enough as long as there is demand for it and the board and existing shareholders approve it but by creating new shares you water down the value of the existing ones. So, if there are 10 shares in a company worth £10 each share is worth £1. If you issue 10 more shares but do nothing to increase the value of the company then it now has 20 shares and is still worth £10 so each share is now worth 50p... Not necessarily good value for the existing shareholders. If, as is the case here, there is only one shareholder (RD currently) then it really is inconsequential as you own all of the shares.i_b_b_o_r_g said:Can anyone please explain -
- How shared are made and how they generate instant cash?
- Are they literally introduced to the stock market and bought up straight away?
- How clubs / companies (Man U) can be "refloated" on the markets time and again?
I'm sure it ain't just me on here who don't understand all this
Charlton is now a Private LTD Company, not a publicly floated company so they are not issued via the stock exchange. They are simply issued by RD and bought by RD (with assistance from professional advisors).
I am not sure of Man Utds background but, as above, companies can issue new shares at any time if they have the right approvals in place. In addition PLC's (publicly quoted companies on the stock market) can be taken Private by someone buying up all of their shares for their own private ownership, and if that Individual wanted to exit the business in future they could re-float them back onto the stock exchange if there was demand for their shares. There are very significant fees to pay each time you take a business private or re-float it so it is not likely to happen regularly.3 -
The capital injection hasn't gone anywhere yet it is still sitting in Charlton Athletic Football Club Ltd one of the group of companies owned by the Douchbag and he can still do as he pleases with it. Either he won't sanction any spend until the EFL approve the takeover or if he does he'll have insisted on some form of indemnity being in place I expect.CAFCsayer said:
What if they were not to get EFL clearance though?Dippenhall said:
More or less.CAFCsayer said:
In all seriousness @Dippenhall is that how you're interpreting this? In layman's terms, does this look like a short term cash injection by Roland, which ESI will be paying him back on completion?CAFCsayer said:
21.5 million warchest for Bowyer in Jan confirmed by Dippenhal... There you have itDippenhall said:The statement of capital deposited with Companies House says "No shares allocated other than for cash". This would rule out shares being issued to a creditor for cancellation of debt. It also means a huge dilution in respect of the existing 6.5m shares so only works if RD retains ownership of 100% of shares. I.E If Charlton is valued at £50m then each of 6.5m shares was worth about £8. Each share of the 33m shares is now worth around £1.50.
The share restructure has no impact on the profit and loss figures because the cash is not revenue, it is shareholder capital. It only affects the profit and loss account if it is spent. The balance sheet will be completely restructured after the change of ownership so see no reason why RD would want to mess about with reducing debt it in advance.
Makes more logic if it is to permit the sale to go through and generate a legitimate fund of cash for meeting commitments to sustain the club in the short term that is effectively a loan from RD dressed up as equity, rather than paper adjustments to RD's mix of share/debt only affecting the balance sheet. Not saying I know anything but just trying to apply logic - dangerous when it comes to RD I know.
I am buying a house that needs renovation. I've exchanged contracts but the roof needs replacing this week before it collapses. The owner agrees to get it fixed and I add the additional cost to the purchase price on completion. Otherwise the owner's property goes down in value and the purchaser walks away or the purchaser acquires a house without a roof.0 -
Heard from a very reliable source ..... Shit battery dyin14
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£12.5 K is a huge sum of money in my opinion.cafcfan said:
Just for the sake of clarity, not all (far from it in fact) PLCs are listed on a stock market. It is a common misconception and impresses the general public but anybody can set up a PLC for an initial outlay of as little as £12,500. This explains it rather well https://www.lawdonut.co.uk/business/finance-and-business-strategy/floating-your-business/becoming-a-plc-without-a-listing Note that it is a reason why a revaluation reserve might be converted to equity.Athletico Charlton said:
You can do additional share offerings easily enough as long as there is demand for it and the board and existing shareholders approve it but by creating new shares you water down the value of the existing ones. So, if there are 10 shares in a company worth £10 each share is worth £1. If you issue 10 more shares but do nothing to increase the value of the company then it now has 20 shares and is still worth £10 so each share is now worth 50p... Not necessarily good value for the existing shareholders. If, as is the case here, there is only one shareholder (RD currently) then it really is inconsequential as you own all of the shares.i_b_b_o_r_g said:Can anyone please explain -
- How shared are made and how they generate instant cash?
- Are they literally introduced to the stock market and bought up straight away?
- How clubs / companies (Man U) can be "refloated" on the markets time and again?
I'm sure it ain't just me on here who don't understand all this
Charlton is now a Private LTD Company, not a publicly floated company so they are not issued via the stock exchange. They are simply issued by RD and bought by RD (with assistance from professional advisors).
I am not sure of Man Utds background but, as above, companies can issue new shares at any time if they have the right approvals in place. In addition PLC's (publicly quoted companies on the stock market) can be taken Private by someone buying up all of their shares for their own private ownership, and if that Individual wanted to exit the business in future they could re-float them back onto the stock exchange if there was demand for their shares. There are very significant fees to pay each time you take a business private or re-float it so it is not likely to happen regularly.2 -
Sponsored links:
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I can only add this to the discussion.
I have no idea what's going on, what it all means or what the people who know what their talking about are actually talking about.
I just hope it's all done and dusted soon so Charlton Athletic Football Club and all it's supporters can move on to, hopefully, a bright and successful future.
COYA5 -
While I am sure Dippenhall's research is kosher, I cannot believe that with no movement on Baton 2010, the £21m can be anything more than debt for shares.0
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Has anybody phoned the banker to ask if its deal or no deal yet2
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Suffice to say mate the interested parties appear to be getting their ducks in a row and we all await the nod of approval or otherwise from the EFL 🤞southamptonaddick said:I can only add this to the discussion.
I have no idea what's going on, what it all means or what the people who know what their talking about are actually talking about.
I just hope it's all done and dusted soon so Charlton Athletic Football Club and all it's supporters can move on to, hopefully, a bright and successful future.
COYA3 -
Not sure but is that behind him with the hat on ??? Uboat said:
That's not him though, is it?TheAddicks4Ever said:Tahnoon On Tour
Looks like the new board are having a great time down at the Valley - let’s hope they get the deal ratified soon and we can all wave goodbye to the 🐀
#UpTheAddicks
0 -
That must mean the EFL are still mullarding it over. 🤓RedChaser said:
Suffice to say mate the interested parties appear to be getting their ducks in a row and we all await the nod of approval or otherwise from the EFL 🤞southamptonaddick said:I can only add this to the discussion.
I have no idea what's going on, what it all means or what the people who know what their talking about are actually talking about.
I just hope it's all done and dusted soon so Charlton Athletic Football Club and all it's supporters can move on to, hopefully, a bright and successful future.
COYA2 -
If u had passed the fit and proper test and the conflict of interest potential had been cleared, what’s the last thing the efl would be interested in and how much wonga would it take to satisfy that last hurdle and what would a way of proving it be ????7
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You can deposit it in my account no worries2
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Ahhh... I see what you did there!DOUCHER said:If u had passed the fit and proper test and the conflict of interest potential had been cleared, what’s the last thing the efl would be interested in and how much wonga would it take to satisfy that last hurdle and what would a way of proving it be ????0 -
The last published accounts show debts of £71m which were not due to be repaid within one year. This event could merely be Roland capitalising some of the debt, ahead of sale into shares. When the change of control happens a form PSC02 will need to be filed to show who is the new controller of the shares (currently the confirmation statement identifies Roland D as the ultimate controller even though the shares are held by Baton 10 Limited which in turn is owned by ..... Staprix which is in turn s controlled by RD) The reasons for capitalising the debt may be many such as the loss made int he current year against . However, East Street Inestments is still only showing one director and issued capital of £1. All of this will change when the EFL stop mucking around and pull their finger out.1
This discussion has been closed.
