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ESI: Thoughts so far?
Comments
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This has always been my understanding of the deal so I am pleased someone has put it into better words than I could.alburyaddick said:The deal works for Roland - he gets to keep the land/property which he had valued at £40m and charges rent ( presumably) to ESI
He stops incurring the annual £7-10m losses which was the bit that concerned him most.
The deal works for ESI because they just fund the annual losses which is a bet on us getting promoted to the promised land within 5 years.You would think that ESI would have had to sign a binding contract to acquire the ground within 6 months, but Roland’s probably not too worried about that either because the last thing he wants is a default so he ends up with the club back again and he’s retained the property as security anyway.So you can see how it works for ESI and Roland - the big question will be how it works out for us fans.Whilst the ownership of the property and the football club remain separated one of our worries would be a lack off investment into The Valley infrastructure.Anyway let’s all hope that the acquisition of all the property assets is concluded within the 6 month period and we start to see the promised investment in the Valley and Sparrows Lane.Probably because I’m an old cynic I wouldn’t be surprised if ESI fail to acquire the property and carry on as renters
Only time will tell
I am slightly dissapointed that ESI do not own us outright as I feel they are renting the entire club, not just the land however as we are all aware buyers were not lining up to break down Roland's door.
As others have said lets wait and see what June 2020 brings when the six months expires for ESI to purchase the land from Roland, if they don't and continue to rent my level of concern will be raised.
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I love you Lincs, you are a funny man.Lincsaddick said:
you should join their PR teambobmunro said:
But we haven't needed the money yet. With the likes of Cullen and Williams coming back from injury and loans (in particular Davis and McGeady) the squad should be able to survive comfortably. As I've said on more than one occasion, you don't build a squad in January, you fill the gaps - and that's what the loans have done. If they needed the money they would have sold Lyle - but they didn't and now run the risk of not getting a penny in the summer if they can't convince him to stay. RD would have sold him.Lincsaddick said:not at all convinced .. we will see later, when we know what league we are in next season .. the PR is over cringeworthy bordering on a confidence trick .. where's the MONEY ?
I accept their reasons why the purchase of The Valley and SL had to wait so they could get in for the January transfer window. I'll re-assess that view in the summer if they still don't own the freeholds and scratch about in the transfer window.
Until then I'm feeling positive - hopefully very positive by the start of next season.1 -
Lincsaddick said:
e.g. .. it was 'reported' on here that at a meeting ( I was not there) an ESI spokesman said .. 'we own the Valley' .. so far as I can see, and I confess I have not read and/or closely analysed every statement, tweet, publicity photo or 'wish', the best that ESI 'own' is an option to buy the Valley in six months time, probably a shorter time now as the statement was made a while back ..i_b_b_o_r_g said:
What do you want to see at this point in the season?Lincsaddick said:not at all convinced .. we will see later, when we know what league we are in next season .. the PR is over cringeworthy bordering on a confidence trick .. where's the MONEY ?
There's obviously questions still to answer, but what was you seriously expecting when you first heard of ESI?
First one to say MS's use of Twitter at the beginning weren't very bright, but confidence trick?
it's like you saying 'I own (or lease) a shop in Grove Park' when what you really have is an option to lease or buy said shop .. still with me ((:>) .. you'd be telling untruths, I am too polite to use the word 'lies' .. anyway, enough about you ((:>)I think that was MS who said it and I've got a suspicion that he thought ESI did own the bricks and mortar at that moment in time. I don't think MS is or was itk as much as he or we think he is. I think HE and "his people" are more in control of the background stuff like ownership of The Valley and SL and MS is more there to deal with the day to day running of the football Club. Reckon MS proving himself to HE is also part of the 5-year plan (although MS don't know it) and once it all starts coming together, starting with this coming closed season, things will start happening. Wouldn’t be surprised if MS goes as part of the process either. But for now, I personally think they're a 100 times better prospect than RD and I'm happy to wait and see where HE and his entourage takes Us
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If what ESI is correct and they have bought the whole lot, but the The Valley and SL will be completed at a later date, surely there wouldn't be any rent to pay would there be?0
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There is something fishy here and I am wearing clean underpants as well!
Hope they prove saviours but I will feel much, much better when they are in full procession and ownership of The Valley and SL.
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I love the enthusiasm of Matt Southall but because of so many poor owners in the past it's only correct that respectful and legitimate questions are asked of ESI because only fools would become sycophantic without a black and white dialogue with Matt as our new owner's spokesman.
Phillips, Doughty, Sarr being signed up would be a step in the right direction BUT if Taylor leaves at the end of the Season then it will be a bigger own goal than the Nabster and Dillion at Wembley.
My hope is with a creative package for Lyle he knows that he is the main man at Cafc and he loves that mantle. My fears are, he has a lot of suitors and the "Model" won't accommodate an exception.
Time will tell on ESI's football and business acumen and whether they dovetail.
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I don't think you can judge ESI on whether Taylor resigns in the summer. That is not something that they can control 100% and as you say he will have a lot of suitors. He also has history of letting his contract run done and moving on a free to another club in the same division although, strangely, few Charlton fans complained about that.soapboxsam said:I love the enthusiasm of Matt Southall but because of so many poor owners in the past it's only correct that respectful and legitimate questions are asked of ESI because only fools would become sycophantic without a black and white dialogue with Matt as our new owner's spokesman.
Phillips, Doughty, Sarr being signed up would be a step in the right direction BUT if Taylor leaves at the end of the Season then it will be a bigger own goal than the Nabster and Dillion at Wembley.
My hope is with a creative package for Lyle he knows that he is the main man at Cafc and he loves that mantle. My fears are, he has a lot of suitors and the "Model" won't accommodate an exception.
Time will tell on ESI's football and business acumen and whether they dovetail.11 -
lolwray said:Frankly the sooner ESI own the valley and the training ground the better .
So far so good but it will end in tears if the above doesn't happen
Although Matt seems a nice guy...he is a mouthpiece..I'd like to see more serious experienced management to complement him at local level
I understand the thinking behind your use(s) of the highlighted descriptions.Lincsaddick said:not at all convinced .. we will see later, when we know what league we are in next season .. the PR is over cringeworthy bordering on a confidence trick .. where's the MONEY ?
I'm not sure that I'd go quite that far, but I do believe that Southall's 'hearts and minds' approach is inadvertently a little 'OTT'.
I dont necessarily believe he does it with purposeful intent. He's quite clearly taken note of just how useless and inept Duchatelet and his cohorts were when it came to the art of 'communication', and is now using that to his benefit. In his efforts to redress the balance and to 'self-promote', he (perhaps subconsciously) takes the whole twitter and social media thing possibly a tad too far, to the extent of it manifesting itself as somewhat disingenuous.
We also shouldn't forget that Southall probably feels like something of a 'hero' at present. The adoration of him will naturally heighten his enthusiasm and eagerness to impress us. He's gone from being a relative unknown, to someone thrust into a limelight that goes with running a recognised and largely revered football club.
As many have said, the intent of the owners will truly become apparent in the months and years to come. The reticence of some to fully embrace them at present, is understandable, due to what we have suffered previously. In essence, time will tell.2 -
I think they'll be a good thing for the club, but I hold complete judgement till the end of June when the Freeholds are due to be brought, and then the transfer window come off the back of that.2
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I was reminded of that on Tuesday funnily, as sitting in Ye Olde Trip to Jerusalem pub in Nottingham, I recalled that the previous time I'd sat there in July 2014 (I was up for the cricket) I'd checked my phone and seen that we'd signed Ben Haim and Gudmundsson that day, 2 quality players and feeling really excited about the season.Garrymanilow said:We're all still wary after the Roland hell. And the Slater/Jimenez hell. I remember Roland coming in, watching the videos with him and Katrien and feeling really positive. They said the right things, talked about developing the club, protecting our young players and kicking on sustainably. They did some weird stuff after that but I distinctly recall still feeling pretty happy at the start of the Peeters run. Felt like they'd figured some things out, instead of the junk they'd loaned us the January before we got in what looked like a decent mix of foreign imports (Buyens, Gudmundsson, Vetokele) and English league experience (Henderson, Ben Haim, Bikey, Moussa) and we all felt like they'd learned a few lessons. By the end of that window it was clear we hadn't done enough in the transfer market and things took a decidedly dark turn from there. It wasn't long before Peeters was moaning about a lack of players, Luzon was in after the world's shortest and most fictional interview process and we descended into mega chaos including the manager we don't talk about. The point is that it can take a long time before an ownership really shows its true colours and the goodwill runs out, but also a long time to become trusting again after you've been dicked about by bad ownership for 13 years. I htink we will need at least another season before we can really say how we feel about ESI and whatever background shenanigans do or don't come to light. At the moment though I'm happy that Southall is trying, engaging with fans and he's turning up to matches, which is a low bar but it's the bar that's been set.
While later seasons would see us sign some rubbish, that first summer under Roland we did sign some decent players, I will be disappointed if in the summer of 2020 under ESI we don't sign the equivalent quality of JBG, Vetekele, TBH, Buyens and Bulot.3 - Sponsored links:
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I like Southall, but then in the early months I liked Katrien...1
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I can't tell you how angry I was with myself when I fell for the honey trap and had a photo taken with Katrien on a hot summer's day when she had a short black leather skirt on. It was so wrong and I can assure you, I took the 20 x 16 enlargement off the bedroom ceiling once it was clear she was economical with the truth. ( 3 years later )killerandflash said:I like Southall, but then in the early months I liked Katrien...
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Jury out for me.
I'll decide when we know the 6 monthly position re The Valley, training ground etc.10 -
Have you been married more than once by any chance ?killerandflash said:I like Southall, but then in the early months I liked Katrien...7 -
If ESI have got no money and still managed to get it over the line, how bad must the Aussies have been?3
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I'd rather judge people by results than by their social media presence. I've heard plenty of people make promises they can't keep over the years so I will retain a bit of cynicism.
I'd rather somebody work quietly and effectively than spend time promoting their image. Obviously I'm out of step with the modern age!
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Happy so far! Long way to go yet though.
Let’s see what our recruitment is like in the summer.
regardless of which league, I’d expect us to go for it1 -
Is the purchase of the ground/ training ground set at a certain date in 6 or so months or is it any time up to ?
If it’s any time up to then the only hold up will be them scrabbling for money or agg with Rugby Club guff near the training ground or a combo
would be nice for an early completion to erase the fears of us bedwetters0 -
Are you seeking approval here?soapy_jones said:There is something fishy here and I am wearing clean underpants as well!
I agree with you that clean underpants are better for wearing than your usual dirty, fishy pants.Better now?0 -
t b h she could still do it for me now .. if yer no wot I meenkillerandflash said:I like Southall, but then in the early months I liked Katrien...
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great defence .. but if the left hand (Southall) doesn't know that the right hand (ESI in Arabia or wherever) is holding then that is bad organisation bordering on negligence or not PRing from the same PRsheet .. whatever, the team is doing OK at present, is a way away from the drop zone and THAT is my primary concerni_b_b_o_r_g said:Lincsaddick said:
e.g. .. it was 'reported' on here that at a meeting ( I was not there) an ESI spokesman said .. 'we own the Valley' .. so far as I can see, and I confess I have not read and/or closely analysed every statement, tweet, publicity photo or 'wish', the best that ESI 'own' is an option to buy the Valley in six months time, probably a shorter time now as the statement was made a while back ..i_b_b_o_r_g said:
What do you want to see at this point in the season?Lincsaddick said:not at all convinced .. we will see later, when we know what league we are in next season .. the PR is over cringeworthy bordering on a confidence trick .. where's the MONEY ?
There's obviously questions still to answer, but what was you seriously expecting when you first heard of ESI?
First one to say MS's use of Twitter at the beginning weren't very bright, but confidence trick?
it's like you saying 'I own (or lease) a shop in Grove Park' when what you really have is an option to lease or buy said shop .. still with me ((:>) .. you'd be telling untruths, I am too polite to use the word 'lies' .. anyway, enough about you ((:>)I think that was MS who said it and I've got a suspicion that he thought ESI did own the bricks and mortar at that moment in time. I don't think MS is or was itk as much as he or we think he is. I think HE and "his people" are more in control of the background stuff like ownership of The Valley and SL and MS is more there to deal with the day to day running of the football Club. Reckon MS proving himself to HE is also part of the 5-year plan (although MS don't know it) and once it all starts coming together, starting with this coming closed season, things will start happening. Wouldn’t be surprised if MS goes as part of the process either. But for now, I personally think they're a 100 times better prospect than RD and I'm happy to wait and see where HE and his entourage takes Us
i_b_b_o_r_g said:Lincsaddick said:
e.g. .. it was 'reported' on here that at a meeting ( I was not there) an ESI spokesman said .. 'we own the Valley' .. so far as I can see, and I confess I have not read and/or closely analysed every statement, tweet, publicity photo or 'wish', the best that ESI 'own' is an option to buy the Valley in six months time, probably a shorter time now as the statement was made a while back ..i_b_b_o_r_g said:
What do you want to see at this point in the season?Lincsaddick said:not at all convinced .. we will see later, when we know what league we are in next season .. the PR is over cringeworthy bordering on a confidence trick .. where's the MONEY ?
There's obviously questions still to answer, but what was you seriously expecting when you first heard of ESI?
First one to say MS's use of Twitter at the beginning weren't very bright, but confidence trick?
it's like you saying 'I own (or lease) a shop in Grove Park' when what you really have is an option to lease or buy said shop .. still with me ((:>) .. you'd be telling untruths, I am too polite to use the word 'lies' .. anyway, enough about you ((:>)I think that was MS who said it and I've got a suspicion that he thought ESI did own the bricks and mortar at that moment in time. I don't think MS is or was itk as much as he or we think he is. I think HE and "his people" are more in control of the background stuff like ownership of The Valley and SL and MS is more there to deal with the day to day running of the football Club. Reckon MS proving himself to HE is also part of the 5-year plan (although MS don't know it) and once it all starts coming together, starting with this coming closed season, things will start happening. Wouldn’t be surprised if MS goes as part of the process either. But for now, I personally think they're a 100 times better prospect than RD and I'm happy to wait and see where HE and his entourage takes Us
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ElfsborgAddick said:lancashire lad said:these are facts not hysterical ignorance
ESi has been involved in the take-over since August 2019 - this means that they should know quite a lot about how the club is run and what is needed even if they couldn't actually do anything until after the takeover
ESi originally stated that they had purchased the Valley only for us to ascertain later that the Valley and Sparrow Lane are still owned by RD
ESi stated at takeover that a priority was to conclude a new contract for LB- this has not been completed
It is not fair to mention player purchases or loans as the window is still open but the above inconsistencies do seriously concern me. With RD's inability to communicate the PR efforts by ESi seem to be a breath of fresh air, or is it just hot air?Great post.Supporters questioning fans' criticism of ESI cannot argue it has not been a good start and they have made mistakes.We need to hope that we stay up, Bowyer starts next season at The Valley, ESI meet their "obligation" and own The Valley and Sparrows Lane outright by June. Only time will tell.We need to be patient, let's see where we are in December this year.
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........But the real judgement will come at the end of August. If ESI have not by then substantially improved the starting eleven and the squad, if they have not completed on the deal to acquire the freehold of the Valley and Sparrows Lane, and if they have not made a start on the development of the academy - then we’ll know it was all just PR spin.All we can do for now is wait, and hope.
Posted the above on the transfer rumours thread in January, and it holds true now. There's lots of hopes and fears, but that's all they are at this stage.9 -
And it is spot on.Davo55 said:........But the real judgement will come at the end of August. If ESI have not by then substantially improved the starting eleven and the squad, if they have not completed on the deal to acquire the freehold of the Valley and Sparrows Lane, and if they have not made a start on the development of the academy - then we’ll know it was all just PR spin.All we can do for now is wait, and hope.
Posted the above on the transfer rumours thread in January, and it holds true now. There's lots of hopes and fears, but that's all they are at this stage.1 -
Wonder if they will complete on premises and issue decent season ticket prices at same time. This could really influence sales of season tickets.
Leave it late and miss a golden opportunity imho.3 -
I won't buy a season ticket if we are paying Roland rent.Hartleypete said:Wonder if they will complete on premises and issue decent season ticket prices at same time. This could really influence sales of season tickets.
Leave it late and miss a golden opportunity imho.2 -
Recommended outfit for Southall tomorrow.
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We have been told by ESI that they have signed a binding contract to acquire the freeholds within 6 months.alburyaddick said:You would think that ESI would have had to sign a binding contract to acquire the ground within 6 months, but Roland’s probably not too worried about that either because the last thing he wants is a default so he ends up with the club back again and he’s retained the property as security anyway.0 -
and if they don't...........?1
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I am deeply concerned that if we are relegated, all the deals will be off, hence the delays in buying the freeholds and releasing cash for permanent signings .. I hope that I am ABSOLUTELY WRONG about this .. anyway, we ain't going downlancashire lad said:and if they don't...........?
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