Savings and Investments thread

golfaddick said:

meldrew66 said:

golfaddick said:

meldrew66 said:

Please can someone 'ITK' (Golfie?) answer the following questions for me:

1. State Pension: despite having made pension contributions for more than 38 years without a break, my state pension forecast is still saying that I need to contribute for another 4 years to gain the maximum pension of (currently) £175.20. I think it said the same thing a year ago. I work for the NHS as a senior manager and pay the usual tax/NI every month so the lack of progress is worrying with just 6 years until my intended retirement age of 60. Could it be because I am contracted out of SERPS within my NHS pension scheme? If so, is there anything I could/should do about this?

2. I have had a 'frozen' NatWest pension since leaving them 17 years ago. I check the pension updates every year and see that the fund is actually reducing or at best staying still every year? Is that right when I am reading on here that others have pension pots growing at great rates. I thought that Bank pensions were highly thought of but mine looks dismal after 19 years of service contributions. Should I consider moving my fund away from NatWest - noting my intention to withdraw maximum cash for retirement in only 6 years' time?

Hope you can help as all of the messages on here indicating huge growth in pensions is leaving me more than a little concerned that my funds are not 'performing' as they might be.

Cheers

A couple of things to note.

Should  you want to transfer the NW scheme away from them & into a Pension of your own you will  need specialist advice.. ..and that doesn't come cheap anymore. Starting figure would be around £5k and that is just for the report detailing the benefits of the NW scheme & whether it is better left where it is or not. The new FCA guidelines start with the premise that it is always worse off to transfer unless the report can prove otherwise.

Also, if you do transfer the pension into your own scheme then you will have a fund of £500k to go against the Lifetime Allowance (currently £1,070,000). It would only need an NHS pension of £25k pa (plus the £75k lump sum) to send you over the LTA and thus subject to an excess tax charge.

First thing I would ask is what pension are NW offering at age 60. Then, what are you expecting from the NHS. Once you have these figures you will be in a better position to decide what to do next.

Thanks Golfie. Regarding the NHS pension, it is split in 2; 1995 scheme and 2015 scheme with the former drawable at age 60 (which is my intention) and the latter at 67. Hypothetical annuities are £584k + £300k. 1995 scheme doesn't change from year to year and taking the maximum cash pays a lump sum of £63k + annual pension of £11,677. The 2015 scheme does increase noticeably each year and is currently paying max cash of £32k with an annual pension of £4,666. What do you reckon?

I know all about the NHS Scheme(s) as most of my clients are Doctors.

Firstly, forget about the hypothetical annuity figures as they don't mean a thing with regard to the NHS Scheme.

The 1995 scheme should still grow every year in line with CPI. They might not show it, but it does. 

The 2015 scheme is a CARE scheme (career average) and basically every year you get a "chunk" of pension (1/54th) based upon your salary that year. As every year goes by each individual "chuck" gets uprated in line with inflation and upon retirement are added together to give you your annual pension. This is why you see it increasing "noticeably" as you are simply building up your annual pension year by year. Note - there is no automatic lump sum with the 2015 scheme, If you want to take a tax-free lump sum you have to give up a portion of your pension to do so (on a 12-1 basis). 

Also remember, if you take the 2015 before age 67 then there is an actuarial reduction for every year you take it early. If you took the 2015 scheme along with the 1995 scheme at age 60 then you would lose around 30% of the annual pension from the 2015 scheme. You can take the 1995 scheme at 60 & leave the 2015 scheme until age 67 so that you don't lose any pension if that works better for you. 

Have you got your latest Total Reward statement ?  These should have come out last month and are on the NHS Gateway site. This will give you the most up-to-date pension figs. Based on what you have said you might have a problem with the LTA if you transferred your NW scheme  - but shouldn't if you left it where it was (assuming the figs you gave earlier are up to date)

I think you might need proper financial advice from an expert in the NHS pension scheme   :)T

Thanks very much Golfie. Really helpful and easy to understand.

Yes, I did download the latest TRS recently - the figures I quoted were from that.

Regarding the 2015 scheme, my plan is to, as you suggest, retire at age 60 but not draw on the 2015 pension until I reach age 67 so that I don't lose any of that pension. With approximately£142k in cash coming out of my 2 pensions at age 60 plus life savings of £120k by then (and as I have no mortgage) I reckon that I can top up my relatively low monthly pension income from those pensions from the cash until more cash and additional state/2016 scheme pensions pay out when I reach 67.

No guarantee on reaching 67 though, of course! Bit worrying about the LTA position too!

meldrew66 said:

bobmunro said:

meldrew66 said:

bobmunro said:

meldrew66 said:

LargeAddick said:

508k isn't to be sneezed at ....

Hi Large …… that's what I was thinking but when I tell you that the age 60 retirement illustration translates into an annual pension of just £13,388 OR cash of £79198 + annual pension of just £11,880, it doesn't feel that great for 19 years of service in what (I thought) was seen as a strong Bank pension.

Typical defined benefit pensions would be 1/60th of pensionable salary for each year of service. For 19 years service that would be 19/60ths of your salary at the time of leaving and the £13,388 might be based on that figure rather than what it might be now based on inflation.

If it is based on your salary at the time of leaving the scheme then £13,388 as 19/60ths of your final salary would equate to your salary when leaving Nat West of just over £42k - does that sound about right?

Yes Bob, probably not far off it once adding in the other pensionable income such as London Weighting, bonuses etc. I guess the question in my head is whether or not I should be expecting my pension fund to have 'grown' under NatWest's fund and, if it hasn't, should it have?

A defined benefit scheme's payments are guaranteed and have no variation based on the pension fund's investment success or otherwise - that's the responsibility of the scheme's trustees. It may have performed well, it may have performed badly - either way it doesn't vary your defined benefits.

Aha, so that is what I have then. Cheers Bob.

Yes final salary, thats a good pension considering it was based on a salary plus indexation for 19 years service that ended some years ago. But it's broadly in line with an annuity with £500k to buy (assuming it's indexed and includes a spouse 50% pension).

golfaddick said:

mendonca said:

Thanks!

On a Pension note, my Dad continued to invest his pension since retirement and it has grown well with it's investment in equity/managed funds. He's filling in the forms to now sell the funds and move the pension (from Zurich to Hargreaves), but this process can take upto 6 weeks I believe. 

What with the US election and current state of markets, is it advisable that he continues to get this going this week, or if he doesn't need to income before end of year, wait and hold off to see how Biden/Trump shake or shape the Global markets?

He was looking to kick-start this process in March, then saw the markets collapse, then saw them perform better than expected. Are clients looking to move forwards with their pension plans being advised something specific in the current climate @golfaddick?

Usually, when you move pension funds from one provider to another, the ceeding scheme (old provider) will sell down the funds once they have ALL the paperwork they need. This might not only be the request from the new provider but also signed declarations from the client as well as other forms saying that you have / have not been given advice & have read any accompanying guidance notes. This is what usually holds up a transfer. Once the funds have been sold down & are in cash then this amount will be sent to the new provider. There is a new system in place (Origo) to transfer the cash speedily so that the client is not out of the market for too long a period of time, but even with the new system in place you would be looking at least 7-10 days. 

To be honest there will always be a time lag or a period when you are out of the market. Not much can be done about it & fingers crossed your father doesn't sell or buy at the wrong moment.......but I wouldn't hold it up because of US elections or Brexit deals 

Many thanks @golfaddick. He seems happy to aim for this completion to be performed by the end of the year as the money that would be drawn out is unlikely to be used for anything in life. 

In simplistic terms if you left after 19 years with a salary of £30,000. In most Bank Final salary schemes you would simply divide £30,000 by 60 = £500.
then multiply £500 x19 years service =  £9,500 pension earned on the day you left.  If that was 17 years ago then each year since you left, that pension will have increased by the annual RPI or in some cases CPI figure. That is your guarantee. 

golfaddick said:

meldrew66 said:

Please can someone 'ITK' (Golfie?) answer the following questions for me:

1. State Pension: despite having made pension contributions for more than 38 years without a break, my state pension forecast is still saying that I need to contribute for another 4 years to gain the maximum pension of (currently) £175.20. I think it said the same thing a year ago. I work for the NHS as a senior manager and pay the usual tax/NI every month so the lack of progress is worrying with just 6 years until my intended retirement age of 60. Could it be because I am contracted out of SERPS within my NHS pension scheme? If so, is there anything I could/should do about this?

2. I have had a 'frozen' NatWest pension since leaving them 17 years ago. I check the pension updates every year and see that the fund is actually reducing or at best staying still every year? Is that right when I am reading on here that others have pension pots growing at great rates. I thought that Bank pensions were highly thought of but mine looks dismal after 19 years of service contributions. Should I consider moving my fund away from NatWest - noting my intention to withdraw maximum cash for retirement in only 6 years' time?

Hope you can help as all of the messages on here indicating huge growth in pensions is leaving me more than a little concerned that my funds are not 'performing' as they might be.

Cheers

You can get a year by year breakdown of your NI record on the HMRC site. This might tell you the reason why the are saying you still need another 4 years. I don't think its because you have been in contracted out schemes as that usually takes care of itself by the amount you get at retirement ......which might not be the standard pension figures for the new State Pension. I would imagine yours will be around £30 pw less because of this.

Ok, just re-checked the HMRC website regarding my state pension query. On my National insurance record, it says "You have 38 years of full contributions" and "13 years to contribute before 5 April 2033" and "You do not have any gaps in your record". On that basis, I can't understand why it also says "You need to contribute for 4 more years" to achieve the maximum state pension of £175.20 per week.

Do I need to phone HMRC to query it then?

maddferrett said:

Investment newbie here. If Boris can get a Brexit deal through in the next two weeks, and Biden gets into the White House, does this translate to an increase in share prices across UK/US?

Expecting to hear "if only it was that easy to predict" lf I've got it very wrong, anyone point me into the right direction for a new investor? 

As you said.....if it was only that easy to predict.

From what I've recently heard Biden has lined up a lot of tax increases & other (so called) left wing policies. Tech stocks could be hit with higher corporation tax also. It's safe to say the the stockmarket loves Trump but not sure on how they might take Biden.

A Brexit deal could go both ways. Good for Sterling if we get a deal (so smaller-mid cap stocks benefit) but if it's no deal then Sterling could drop, but that then boosts the overseas earnings of the top FTSE stocks. I think either outcome will be short lived on terms of benefitting the UK market & the market is really waiting on a vaccine or a clear way forward as to what company profits will look like for 2021.

meldrew66 said:

golfaddick said:

meldrew66 said:

Please can someone 'ITK' (Golfie?) answer the following questions for me:

1. State Pension: despite having made pension contributions for more than 38 years without a break, my state pension forecast is still saying that I need to contribute for another 4 years to gain the maximum pension of (currently) £175.20. I think it said the same thing a year ago. I work for the NHS as a senior manager and pay the usual tax/NI every month so the lack of progress is worrying with just 6 years until my intended retirement age of 60. Could it be because I am contracted out of SERPS within my NHS pension scheme? If so, is there anything I could/should do about this?

2. I have had a 'frozen' NatWest pension since leaving them 17 years ago. I check the pension updates every year and see that the fund is actually reducing or at best staying still every year? Is that right when I am reading on here that others have pension pots growing at great rates. I thought that Bank pensions were highly thought of but mine looks dismal after 19 years of service contributions. Should I consider moving my fund away from NatWest - noting my intention to withdraw maximum cash for retirement in only 6 years' time?

Hope you can help as all of the messages on here indicating huge growth in pensions is leaving me more than a little concerned that my funds are not 'performing' as they might be.

Cheers

You can get a year by year breakdown of your NI record on the HMRC site. This might tell you the reason why the are saying you still need another 4 years. I don't think its because you have been in contracted out schemes as that usually takes care of itself by the amount you get at retirement ......which might not be the standard pension figures for the new State Pension. I would imagine yours will be around £30 pw less because of this.

Ok, just re-checked the HMRC website regarding my state pension query. On my National insurance record, it says "You have 38 years of full contributions" and "13 years to contribute before 5 April 2033" and "You do not have any gaps in your record". On that basis, I can't understand why it also says "You need to contribute for 4 more years" to achieve the maximum state pension of £175.20 per week.

Do I need to phone HMRC to query it then?

Probably best to. I've heard from some self employed clients that the change over to Class 1 NI being collected with the Annual Tax returns rather than separately as was the case before 2017 has led many people not to have those payments correctly accounted for.

It does irk me that before the change to the new State Pension that you had to contribute for "90% of your working life" which for most was at least 40 years. Now you only need 35 qualifying years. I started work at age 16 & have been working ever since. I'm now 53 so by rights I shouldn't need to pay any more NI contributions.....but there is no getting out of it I understand. Bastards.

meldrew66 said:

golfaddick said:

meldrew66 said:

Please can someone 'ITK' (Golfie?) answer the following questions for me:

1. State Pension: despite having made pension contributions for more than 38 years without a break, my state pension forecast is still saying that I need to contribute for another 4 years to gain the maximum pension of (currently) £175.20. I think it said the same thing a year ago. I work for the NHS as a senior manager and pay the usual tax/NI every month so the lack of progress is worrying with just 6 years until my intended retirement age of 60. Could it be because I am contracted out of SERPS within my NHS pension scheme? If so, is there anything I could/should do about this?

2. I have had a 'frozen' NatWest pension since leaving them 17 years ago. I check the pension updates every year and see that the fund is actually reducing or at best staying still every year? Is that right when I am reading on here that others have pension pots growing at great rates. I thought that Bank pensions were highly thought of but mine looks dismal after 19 years of service contributions. Should I consider moving my fund away from NatWest - noting my intention to withdraw maximum cash for retirement in only 6 years' time?

Hope you can help as all of the messages on here indicating huge growth in pensions is leaving me more than a little concerned that my funds are not 'performing' as they might be.

Cheers

You can get a year by year breakdown of your NI record on the HMRC site. This might tell you the reason why the are saying you still need another 4 years. I don't think its because you have been in contracted out schemes as that usually takes care of itself by the amount you get at retirement ......which might not be the standard pension figures for the new State Pension. I would imagine yours will be around £30 pw less because of this.

Ok, just re-checked the HMRC website regarding my state pension query. On my National insurance record, it says "You have 38 years of full contributions" and "13 years to contribute before 5 April 2033" and "You do not have any gaps in your record". On that basis, I can't understand why it also says "You need to contribute for 4 more years" to achieve the maximum state pension of £175.20 per week.

Do I need to phone HMRC to query it then?

You don’t have any gaps, meaning you have contributed every year, but need to contribute for four more years to achieve the full pension and have 13 years to make those 4 full years contributions.

meldrew66 said:

LargeAddick said:

meldrew66 said:

golfaddick said:

meldrew66 said:

Please can someone 'ITK' (Golfie?) answer the following questions for me:

1. State Pension: despite having made pension contributions for more than 38 years without a break, my state pension forecast is still saying that I need to contribute for another 4 years to gain the maximum pension of (currently) £175.20. I think it said the same thing a year ago. I work for the NHS as a senior manager and pay the usual tax/NI every month so the lack of progress is worrying with just 6 years until my intended retirement age of 60. Could it be because I am contracted out of SERPS within my NHS pension scheme? If so, is there anything I could/should do about this?

2. I have had a 'frozen' NatWest pension since leaving them 17 years ago. I check the pension updates every year and see that the fund is actually reducing or at best staying still every year? Is that right when I am reading on here that others have pension pots growing at great rates. I thought that Bank pensions were highly thought of but mine looks dismal after 19 years of service contributions. Should I consider moving my fund away from NatWest - noting my intention to withdraw maximum cash for retirement in only 6 years' time?

Hope you can help as all of the messages on here indicating huge growth in pensions is leaving me more than a little concerned that my funds are not 'performing' as they might be.

Cheers

You can get a year by year breakdown of your NI record on the HMRC site. This might tell you the reason why the are saying you still need another 4 years. I don't think its because you have been in contracted out schemes as that usually takes care of itself by the amount you get at retirement ......which might not be the standard pension figures for the new State Pension. I would imagine yours will be around £30 pw less because of this.

Ok, just re-checked the HMRC website regarding my state pension query. On my National insurance record, it says "You have 38 years of full contributions" and "13 years to contribute before 5 April 2033" and "You do not have any gaps in your record". On that basis, I can't understand why it also says "You need to contribute for 4 more years" to achieve the maximum state pension of £175.20 per week.

Do I need to phone HMRC to query it then?

You don’t have any gaps, meaning you have contributed every year, but need to contribute for four more years to achieve the full pension and have 13 years to make those 4 full years contributions.

....but that means I have had to pay NI for 42 full years to qualify for a full state pension. That’s not right, is it?

Not a 100% sure on this - but I would have thought it's not really the number of years but the amount you have contributed.  If many of those years were on low pay and hence low/zero NI then you'll need to do more years to up the total contribution.

RaplhMilne said:

In simplistic terms if you left after 19 years with a salary of £30,000. In most Bank Final salary schemes you would simply divide £30,000 by 60 = £500.
then multiply £500 x19 years service =  £9,500 pension earned on the day you left.  If that was 17 years ago then each year since you left, that pension will have increased by the annual RPI or in some cases CPI figure. That is your guarantee. 

As stated how your pension trustees perform in managing the investment is immaterial to you, as your pension is a fixed defined benefit. If they have massively over, or under performed is irrelevant to you. Massive over performance means Nat West pay less into the pot, massive under means they pay in more.  

However, you can choose to not take the DB pension, and they will offer you a CETV (cash equivalent transfer value) sum of money, to completely transfer your pension away to another option. The comments given by others on wether moving a DB pension is sound. It’s a serious move and requires a proper IFA to look at all your Financial circumstances and give advice. 

Makes a lot of sense Ralph. Thanks for taking the time to post on here for me.

golfaddick said:

Rob7Lee said:

PragueAddick said:

golfaddick said:

PragueAddick said:

stevexreeve said:

golfaddick said:

stevexreeve said:

LargeAddick said:

question for an IFA if there is one on here .... and these are hypothetical figures.

If someone is about to reach 55 and has £300k in their pension pot they are entitled to take £75k (25%) as a tax free lump sum. However, they only want to take £25k leaving the rest in to hopefully increase in value, so they do this reducing their pot to £275k.
In five years time their pot is now worth £400k and they want to take the rest of their 25% tax free sum. Is it then calculated as 25% of £400k so £100k less the £25k previously taken so meaning they can take a further £75k?

Might be worth mentioning that once you've taken anything out of your pension, you can only pay 4K per year into any pension from then on. I think that's right?

You can potentially lose a lot of future tax relief by dipping in for a quick 25K. 

Again, wrong.

The £4k limit only applies once you start taking payments AFTER you have taken the tax-free element.

Sorry! 

The whole thing seems ridiculously complicated - almost designed to discourage reluctant young people from saving!

Should everybody who is still working take that tax free element at 55 and recycle it back into another pension so they can claim even more tax relief?

I'm too old to worry about this anyway!

I definitely agree with that. But it's at a piece with the entire tax regime, and designed to enrich the financial services industry as usual. 

For example, I have a SIPP which is now on the Hargreaves Lansdowne platform. In my naivety I supposed that I can just directly withdraw amounts up to the limit directly. Oh no. For a reason which is not explained, I have to apply to make it a drawdown pension. H-L claims that there are no extra charges. I am not sure I believe that, but either way, why do we have this bureaucracy? 

I expect it's because, as stated the other day, that there is a definitive distinction between a Personal pension (be it a PP, a Stakeholder or a Sipp) and a Drawdown plan. A drawdown pension (or to give it its proper name, a FLEXI-access drawdown scheme) has different tax treatments than  a normal pension and has to distinguish between crystalised & uncrystalised funds.

I mean, really, what a load of old bollocks. I don't refer to you of course, but to the reasoning you are revealing. Show that to an average person and ask them if they understand a word. If the UK wants people to take responsibility for their own pensions,( a sentiment I agree with, within reason) then bloody well make it simple. But then that's just part of the complete massive mess which is the UK tax law. 

I'd certainly agree the UK tax system/law is massively over complicated. Mainly because everyone has been to scared to make wholesale changes. It's just adding a new rule here, a new rule there. I'm getting on a bit having been working now for 30+ years, but when I think back to the numerous pension changes i've probably forgotten half of them, MIRAS, Personal allowance, Do you/don't you get child benefit, NI Changes, Married Mans allowance, Stamp duty changes and thats probably the tip of the iceberg. 

It's so over complicated.

Starting to question if it was wise to start paying into my pension again..........

About the only thing I give Gordon Brown credit for is pension simplification, which came into force in 2006. No more AVC's, FSAVC's, Personal Pensions, Retirement Annuity Contracts. Just 1 simple Personal Pension (until they added I  Stakeholders). And that you could transfer the whole lot into 1.......and still get a 25% tax free payment upon retirement (which you couldn't get from your AVc's or FSAVC's). I transferred 4 old schemes into 1. 

Then I take away all my praise for him as at the same time the Annual Allowance & the Lifetime Allowance were introduced. The Annual allowance started off at £265k.......its now £40k. The Lifetime Allowance started off at £1.5m and went up steadily to £1.8m. In 2010 when the Coalition came in it was supposed to go up to £2m. Instead it has steadily decreased & currently stands at just under £1.1m. This is where the silent tax take has been coming from. I understand all the righteous indignation over wellfare cuts & the pain austerity has caused to millions of working class folk, but many of them have no idea how much tax is being taken at the upper end of the scale. And I'm not talking about millionaires, footballers or businessman. Just your ordinary GP, Hospital Consultant & Head Teacher.

Anyway.....mustn't grumble. All these changes have kept me in a job.....😄
 

I think they should have a lifetime limit on tax relief at input, not output. 

meldrew66 said:

LargeAddick said:

meldrew66 said:

golfaddick said:

meldrew66 said:

Please can someone 'ITK' (Golfie?) answer the following questions for me:

1. State Pension: despite having made pension contributions for more than 38 years without a break, my state pension forecast is still saying that I need to contribute for another 4 years to gain the maximum pension of (currently) £175.20. I think it said the same thing a year ago. I work for the NHS as a senior manager and pay the usual tax/NI every month so the lack of progress is worrying with just 6 years until my intended retirement age of 60. Could it be because I am contracted out of SERPS within my NHS pension scheme? If so, is there anything I could/should do about this?

2. I have had a 'frozen' NatWest pension since leaving them 17 years ago. I check the pension updates every year and see that the fund is actually reducing or at best staying still every year? Is that right when I am reading on here that others have pension pots growing at great rates. I thought that Bank pensions were highly thought of but mine looks dismal after 19 years of service contributions. Should I consider moving my fund away from NatWest - noting my intention to withdraw maximum cash for retirement in only 6 years' time?

Hope you can help as all of the messages on here indicating huge growth in pensions is leaving me more than a little concerned that my funds are not 'performing' as they might be.

Cheers

You can get a year by year breakdown of your NI record on the HMRC site. This might tell you the reason why the are saying you still need another 4 years. I don't think its because you have been in contracted out schemes as that usually takes care of itself by the amount you get at retirement ......which might not be the standard pension figures for the new State Pension. I would imagine yours will be around £30 pw less because of this.

Ok, just re-checked the HMRC website regarding my state pension query. On my National insurance record, it says "You have 38 years of full contributions" and "13 years to contribute before 5 April 2033" and "You do not have any gaps in your record". On that basis, I can't understand why it also says "You need to contribute for 4 more years" to achieve the maximum state pension of £175.20 per week.

Do I need to phone HMRC to query it then?

You don’t have any gaps, meaning you have contributed every year, but need to contribute for four more years to achieve the full pension and have 13 years to make those 4 full years contributions.

....but that means I have had to pay NI for 42 full years to qualify for a full state pension. That’s not right, is it?

I retired after making 44 years of full contributions. I no longer work or pay any NI. My forecast pension is £144.49. However it says my maximum could be £164,61, as I have shortfalls in my NI record.

hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

Novacyt nearing £12 per share - 18000% rise over last year. Amazing. 

Anybody manage to make/fluke/mastermind some serious money from a punt? 

£1k will have earnt £180k, but that's through graphical and wishful post-event analysis.

Interesting case I have on the go atm & thought I'd share just a snippet (have to be careful due to client confidentiality) as I wondered what the general consensus on here would be as I know what I would do but everyone has different circumstances.

I have a client who is looking to take her pension early as she is needing to give up work to care for her mother. Just turned 56 and has a number of pensions, some DB & some DC. She is an only child so care has fallen onto her. She is single & has no children herself. Long & short of it is that her DB schemes at 60 would give her approx £18k pa (plus a small lump sum) & her DC schemes are worth c£320k. Not great sums but taking the tax-free lump sum from her DC scheme would mean she could pay her mortgage off & have enough to live on for a couple of years before looking at taking any more money.

Just getting updated info on the DB scheme & 1 in particular has made me think......and change my advice if I was in her shoes. Last time she got figures for this pension scheme they were giving her £1250pa for life.....and the transfer value was £51k. Now they are saying they would pay her £1750pa.......and the transfer value is now £104k.

So, should she exchange a guaranteed £1750pa (if she takes it at 60 more likely to be £1850 pa) index linked (max 10% paperwork shows but currently at CPi) for £104k that could go into her DC scheme  ?  She could take a lump sum of £8k & a reduced pension £1500 pa - but she could take £26k lump sum in a DC scheme. Question the FCA would ask is - how long would the £104k last & would want comparison figures with CPI increases built in. Am I mad in thinking that even if she took £26k as a tax free lump sum the remaining £78k would last long enough to give her £1500 pa for life. In simple terms she would have to live another 50 years before it ran out. Factor in inflation probably more like 30 years. 

Going against her (or should I say, the cons would outweigh the pro's according to the FCA) is that she can't say that she wants to be able to leave the fund to a spouse or children, rather than the pension dying with her. 

Then there is the cost of advice. Contingent charging has now been banned, so I can't say that the cost of the advice would only be paid should she transfer the pension. A fee would have to charged no matter what the specialised report said she should do. This fee would be a minimum of £3k......more likely £4k but 5k tops.

I had no thought of even talking to her about transferring any of her DB schemes.......always said that they would be the basic, guaranteed element of  her retirement & her DC would be the flexible part. 1 of her other DB schemes is the NHS Pension Scheme so cant be transferred no matter what - this will give her around £8k pa at age 60.

But surely, £104k against an income for life of £1850 pa is just a no brainer......or am I just a greedy pension salesman  ??

On a slightly different income tack, if caring for her mother, she should check on attendance allowance / carers  allowance. Age Concern will advise and help her through the process. My mum’s attendance allowance is about £340pm (tax free).