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Harsh on Williams today
Comments
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I think his frustration is he hasn't got a clue how to take the team as it is now to a point it can control a game. He can, when the defence is fit make the team hard to beat and as this is League One, that will quite often get you three points. But when elements are not right he can't find tactics to impose ourselves.LargeAddick said:
Spot on.cafcfan1990 said:That's two post matches in a row that Bows has spouted absolute shite. Hold your hands up, admit your mistakes. If you have a grievance with a player, do it in a professional manner.
The thing is he takes Williams off but instead brings on another defender we drop forever deeper then he’s amazed when someone makes a mistake and we concede. I truely think he’s losing it but why I don’t know.
We have a decent squad, but he set up today to stop Shrewsbury because he didn't trust our ability to try to beat them through offensive dominance. It is true, Burton, MK Dons and Shrewsbury prioritise stopping us, but it works if we try to outplay them, so we play the same way and the extra bit of quality we have means we may edge the game. That is what our game plan was today and it was obvious from the starting team sheet.3 -
I know it doesn't fit the thread but what he said about Josh after he sold him wasn't exactly glowing.Dazzler21 said:
Eurgh it's growing...Dazzler21 said:So Bowyer's hit list so far... Feel free to add.
ReevesFosu
BonneBogleOztumerMorganWilliamsMarshall
I seem to remember there was something about Billy Clarke and the suggestion of resigning Ricky Holmes but it's a bit cloudy in the old memory banks.
I will add that I am a massive fan of Bowyer and he is still well in credit with me but that doesn't mean I can't point out when I think he is wrong.3 -
Making a point/example of a player is fine, but you don't do it in the final third of a game we are hanging onto with a 1 goal lead that we were lucky to have.
You do it after the game, you drop him for the next game, make him train with the U23's for a day etc, lots of options. Although I don't think JW would react to that type of 'punishment' he's an arm around the shoulder sort of guy.
It may have been Gunter that gave away the penalty, but it was directly Bowyers substitution decision that was the proximate cause. I wonder if that was part of his anger, at himself.
Bowyers clearly feeling pressure, where thats coming from is not currently clear. I do think he's frustrated that he doesn't have the players he really wants, to play the way he wants to. He needs to adapt to what he has, but I also wonder f he's starting to get pressure from above.
Time will tell, but we need to keep the faith!3 -
It's amazing how Williams and Morgan been outed today but Forster Caskey didn't get dragged after 15mins for being, well, erm, shit.
Pratley no mention how shit (again) , Gunter no mention how shit (again),
Gilbey no mention how shit (again) JFC straight in the line up for some reason no mention how shit.
You picked the wrong side (again) Bows maybe have a word with yourself or backroom team.8 -
The way Johnny jumped out of the way was more Rommedhal than Jensen and as a result they almost scored. Don't expect him to go crunching in given his slight physique, but if he can't intercept or nick it, some kind of block will do. It's probably down to his injury record that he completely bottled it but we can't carry people out of possession.
A bad incident in a bad game today. I've never seen a League Two game but I guess that's what one looks like.4 -
He has. OK he might not have anywhere near his first choices. But Bowyer has almost always played played the diamond, when he he can. He has two 6s, four 8s and three 10s yet he can't seem to find the right blend.Rob7Lee said:Making a point/example of a player is fine, but you don't do it in the final third of a game we are hanging onto with a 1 goal lead that we were lucky to have.
You do it after the game, you drop him for the next game, make him train with the U23's for a day etc, lots of options. Although I don't think JW would react to that type of 'punishment' he's an arm around the shoulder sort of guy.
It may have been Gunter that gave away the penalty, but it was directly Bowyers substitution decision that was the proximate cause. I wonder if that was part of his anger, at himself.
Bowyers clearly feeling pressure, where thats coming from is not currently clear. I do think he's frustrated that he doesn't have the players he really wants, to play the way he wants to. He needs to adapt to what he has, but I also wonder f he's starting to get pressure from above.
Time will tell, but we need to keep the faith!
There isn't a problem with the 8 first team defenders, injuries aside.
It's so hard to really judge the strikers because the midfield has, collectively with a few exceptions, been shit.0 -
Nail on head. Why didn’t he sub Pratley when he gave away a penalty at Lincoln for example, or sub Gunter when he gave Burton their first goal the other week.Hartleypete said:There is no doubt Bowyer has his favourites and Williams isn’t one of them. He would rather play Watson and Pratley because they can tackle.The fact they hardly ever pass forward doesn’t seem to matter.I mentioned on the other thread, I don’t think something is right and although Williams ‘pulled out’ the challenge, it’s very disrespectful and unprofessional to sub the substitute. I can only think of it happening a few times in my lifetime of watching football, and it’s usually when a player is having an absolute mare. Williams for the most part doesn’t shirk from the physical side of the game despite being very injury prone and susceptible to bad tackles11 -
Starting to think Gilbey is just rubbish. Do not understand what he’s meant to offer to the side. Been really disappointed in last 5 matches. Hoped he wasn’t starting when the team was announced.Charltonparklane said:It's amazing how Williams and Morgan been outed today but Forster Caskey didn't get dragged after 15mins for being, well, erm, shit.
Pratley no mention how shit (again) , Gunter no mention how shit (again),
Gilbey no mention how shit (again) JFC straight in the line up for some reason no mention how shit.
You picked the wrong side (again) Bows maybe have a word with yourself or backroom team.9 -
I disagree (defenders I agree), I don't think he has the calibre of player to play the diamond, they don't press nor play as a unit which is why the midfield often looks non existent and is so easily passed.Cafc43v3r said:
He has. OK he might not have anywhere near his first choices. But Bowyer has almost always played played the diamond, when he he can. He has two 6s, four 8s and three 10s yet he can't seem to find the right blend.Rob7Lee said:Making a point/example of a player is fine, but you don't do it in the final third of a game we are hanging onto with a 1 goal lead that we were lucky to have.
You do it after the game, you drop him for the next game, make him train with the U23's for a day etc, lots of options. Although I don't think JW would react to that type of 'punishment' he's an arm around the shoulder sort of guy.
It may have been Gunter that gave away the penalty, but it was directly Bowyers substitution decision that was the proximate cause. I wonder if that was part of his anger, at himself.
Bowyers clearly feeling pressure, where thats coming from is not currently clear. I do think he's frustrated that he doesn't have the players he really wants, to play the way he wants to. He needs to adapt to what he has, but I also wonder f he's starting to get pressure from above.
Time will tell, but we need to keep the faith!
There isn't a problem with the 8 first team defenders, injuries aside.
It's so hard to really judge the strikers because the midfield has, collectively with a few exceptions, been shit.
Playing JFK on the right is madness, time and time again when he should have gone right, on his right, he comes in on his left or turns back as he can't come inside on his left. They also don't play as a unit at all, all over the place at times.
Playing Pratley and Watson also doesn't work, more often that not Watson comes as deep as the back four to pick up the ball, which means he's got 5 players in front of him against 10. Neither partly due to their age are box to box midfielders although Pratley gives it a go.
Today if he was going to play the diamond I think he had to have Watson OR Pratley at the base, Morgan right and i'd try Maatsen left or Gilbey and either Williams of Maddison at the tip (not convinced Maddison was injured).
That said i'm not convinced Maddison at the tip is the answer on the diamond as the amount he comes back the midfield will often get over run.
Agree on the strikers, we don't seem to know how to play with them, I don't think they've jelled either as no one seems to be able to read either Bogle or Chuck's flick on's or what position to take if they are holding up the ball with back to goal.
Either way, the set up and way we are trying to play isn't working the last few games.
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Nope he didn’t did as told and hooked. Simple. He’s only with us as no one else wants him. Palace2
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I actually think part of the problem with Pratley and Watson is when they play together it should be Pratley at the base. Like he played in the championship and Bielik played in league 1. Watson was outstanding against us for forest when he moved into the "8" last season. It changed the game, twice.Rob7Lee said:
I disagree (defenders I agree), I don't think he has the calibre of player to play the diamond, they don't press nor play as a unit which is why the midfield often looks non existent and is so easily passed.Cafc43v3r said:
He has. OK he might not have anywhere near his first choices. But Bowyer has almost always played played the diamond, when he he can. He has two 6s, four 8s and three 10s yet he can't seem to find the right blend.Rob7Lee said:Making a point/example of a player is fine, but you don't do it in the final third of a game we are hanging onto with a 1 goal lead that we were lucky to have.
You do it after the game, you drop him for the next game, make him train with the U23's for a day etc, lots of options. Although I don't think JW would react to that type of 'punishment' he's an arm around the shoulder sort of guy.
It may have been Gunter that gave away the penalty, but it was directly Bowyers substitution decision that was the proximate cause. I wonder if that was part of his anger, at himself.
Bowyers clearly feeling pressure, where thats coming from is not currently clear. I do think he's frustrated that he doesn't have the players he really wants, to play the way he wants to. He needs to adapt to what he has, but I also wonder f he's starting to get pressure from above.
Time will tell, but we need to keep the faith!
There isn't a problem with the 8 first team defenders, injuries aside.
It's so hard to really judge the strikers because the midfield has, collectively with a few exceptions, been shit.
Playing JFK on the right is madness, time and time again when he should have gone right, on his right, he comes in on his left or turns back as he can't come inside on his left. They also don't play as a unit at all, all over the place at times.
Playing Pratley and Watson also doesn't work, more often that not Watson comes as deep as the back four to pick up the ball, which means he's got 5 players in front of him against 10. Neither partly due to their age are box to box midfielders although Pratley gives it a go.
Today if he was going to play the diamond I think he had to have Watson OR Pratley at the base, Morgan right and i'd try Maatsen left or Gilbey and either Williams of Maddison at the tip (not convinced Maddison was injured).
That said i'm not convinced Maddison at the tip is the answer on the diamond as the amount he comes back the midfield will often get over run.
Agree on the strikers, we don't seem to know how to play with them, I don't think they've jelled either as no one seems to be able to read either Bogle or Chuck's flick on's or what position to take if they are holding up the ball with back to goal.
Either way, the set up and way we are trying to play isn't working the last few games.
If he played:
Pratley
Shinnie/Morgan Watson/JFC
Williams
Everything week we would be a bit more fluid and keep the solidity.
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When we get Inniss back, we may see him go back to 5-3-2/3-5-2. Matthews and Maatsen could potentially do a job as wing backs.Rob7Lee said:
I disagree (defenders I agree), I don't think he has the calibre of player to play the diamond, they don't press nor play as a unit which is why the midfield often looks non existent and is so easily passed.Cafc43v3r said:
He has. OK he might not have anywhere near his first choices. But Bowyer has almost always played played the diamond, when he he can. He has two 6s, four 8s and three 10s yet he can't seem to find the right blend.Rob7Lee said:Making a point/example of a player is fine, but you don't do it in the final third of a game we are hanging onto with a 1 goal lead that we were lucky to have.
You do it after the game, you drop him for the next game, make him train with the U23's for a day etc, lots of options. Although I don't think JW would react to that type of 'punishment' he's an arm around the shoulder sort of guy.
It may have been Gunter that gave away the penalty, but it was directly Bowyers substitution decision that was the proximate cause. I wonder if that was part of his anger, at himself.
Bowyers clearly feeling pressure, where thats coming from is not currently clear. I do think he's frustrated that he doesn't have the players he really wants, to play the way he wants to. He needs to adapt to what he has, but I also wonder f he's starting to get pressure from above.
Time will tell, but we need to keep the faith!
There isn't a problem with the 8 first team defenders, injuries aside.
It's so hard to really judge the strikers because the midfield has, collectively with a few exceptions, been shit.
Playing JFK on the right is madness, time and time again when he should have gone right, on his right, he comes in on his left or turns back as he can't come inside on his left. They also don't play as a unit at all, all over the place at times.
Playing Pratley and Watson also doesn't work, more often that not Watson comes as deep as the back four to pick up the ball, which means he's got 5 players in front of him against 10. Neither partly due to their age are box to box midfielders although Pratley gives it a go.
Today if he was going to play the diamond I think he had to have Watson OR Pratley at the base, Morgan right and i'd try Maatsen left or Gilbey and either Williams of Maddison at the tip (not convinced Maddison was injured).
That said i'm not convinced Maddison at the tip is the answer on the diamond as the amount he comes back the midfield will often get over run.
Agree on the strikers, we don't seem to know how to play with them, I don't think they've jelled either as no one seems to be able to read either Bogle or Chuck's flick on's or what position to take if they are holding up the ball with back to goal.
Either way, the set up and way we are trying to play isn't working the last few games.
at the moment given how weak we look I would just go flat 4-4-2. I know there’s no natural wide players in our team, but as you point out, the diamond doesn’t work at all with our current players1 -
Exactly how I read the situation. With the current squad he doesn't know how to get them to play the system he wants. Now there are some mitigating circumstances but primarily these are players he has brought in, of course injuries haven't helped but a truly great coach adapts their system to get the best out of what he has. Right now we aren't seeing that. Seems he is really feeling the pressure as well as these little spats blaming individuals or officials or even the handful of fans there to witness one game, it's starting to wear a bit thin now.MuttleyCAFC said:
I think his frustration is he hasn't got a clue how to take the team as it is now to a point it can control a game. He can, when the defence is fit make the team hard to beat and as this is League One, that will quite often get you three points. But when elements are not right he can't find tactics to impose ourselves.LargeAddick said:
Spot on.cafcfan1990 said:That's two post matches in a row that Bows has spouted absolute shite. Hold your hands up, admit your mistakes. If you have a grievance with a player, do it in a professional manner.
The thing is he takes Williams off but instead brings on another defender we drop forever deeper then he’s amazed when someone makes a mistake and we concede. I truely think he’s losing it but why I don’t know.
We have a decent squad, but he set up today to stop Shrewsbury because he didn't trust our ability to try to beat them through offensive dominance. It is true, Burton, MK Dons and Shrewsbury prioritise stopping us, but it works if we try to outplay them, so we play the same way and the extra bit of quality we have means we may edge the game. That is what our game plan was today and it was obvious from the starting team sheet.
Fwiw I'm still pro Bowyer but he can't act in the way he has the last few weeks every time it doesn't go our way, he wants to talk today about Williams not fighting for the team, well how about he shows some of that and take it on the chin about some of his decisions and stop digging individuals.1 -
Of all the players that really aren't going to react well to public humiliation Williams has to be top of the list. I don't think I've seen him put his foot in ever. When you're made of glass why would you?
Bowyer was right to dig him out for not scoring but this time he's got it wrong imo.
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I've always been a big fan of Bowyer, but that's shocking.
Is he losing the dressing room? Is the weight of expectation under a new owner getting to him?
He's certainly made some strange decisions & comments recently10 -
Maybe a chat with somebody like Keith Peacock or even Curbs could help him reset. But is he the sort to listen?colthe3rd said:
Exactly how I read the situation. With the current squad he doesn't know how to get them to play the system he wants. Now there are some mitigating circumstances but primarily these are players he has brought in, of course injuries haven't helped but a truly great coach adapts their system to get the best out of what he has. Right now we aren't seeing that. Seems he is really feeling the pressure as well as these little spats blaming individuals or officials or even the handful of fans there to witness one game, it's starting to wear a bit thin now.MuttleyCAFC said:
I think his frustration is he hasn't got a clue how to take the team as it is now to a point it can control a game. He can, when the defence is fit make the team hard to beat and as this is League One, that will quite often get you three points. But when elements are not right he can't find tactics to impose ourselves.LargeAddick said:
Spot on.cafcfan1990 said:That's two post matches in a row that Bows has spouted absolute shite. Hold your hands up, admit your mistakes. If you have a grievance with a player, do it in a professional manner.
The thing is he takes Williams off but instead brings on another defender we drop forever deeper then he’s amazed when someone makes a mistake and we concede. I truely think he’s losing it but why I don’t know.
We have a decent squad, but he set up today to stop Shrewsbury because he didn't trust our ability to try to beat them through offensive dominance. It is true, Burton, MK Dons and Shrewsbury prioritise stopping us, but it works if we try to outplay them, so we play the same way and the extra bit of quality we have means we may edge the game. That is what our game plan was today and it was obvious from the starting team sheet.
Fwiw I'm still pro Bowyer but he can't act in the way he has the last few weeks every time it doesn't go our way, he wants to talk today about Williams not fighting for the team, well how about he shows some of that and take it on the chin about some of his decisions and stop digging individuals.1 -
Boxing Day 2020
Bowyer phones Jonny Williams to congratulate him on finally 'putting his foot in.'
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I agree. One thing criticising an attacking midfielder for a lack of goals, but poor defensive work? Bizarre.carly burn said:Of all the players that really aren't going to react well to public humiliation Williams has to be top of the list. I don't think I've seen him put his foot in ever. When you're made of glass why would you?
Bowyer was right to dig him out for not scoring but this time he's got it wrong imo.0 -
Nonsense comment. I am miffed at Bowyer but you can't say he is picking on a player because he has subbed him a few times. Totally OTTLeuth said:2 -
Not the worst idea, honestly I don't know. It does always seem things are on his terms and he's quite solitary. Hope I'm completely wrong but all managers need help form time to time.MuttleyCAFC said:
Maybe a chat with somebody like Keith Peacock or even Curbs could help him reset. But is he the sort to listen?colthe3rd said:
Exactly how I read the situation. With the current squad he doesn't know how to get them to play the system he wants. Now there are some mitigating circumstances but primarily these are players he has brought in, of course injuries haven't helped but a truly great coach adapts their system to get the best out of what he has. Right now we aren't seeing that. Seems he is really feeling the pressure as well as these little spats blaming individuals or officials or even the handful of fans there to witness one game, it's starting to wear a bit thin now.MuttleyCAFC said:
I think his frustration is he hasn't got a clue how to take the team as it is now to a point it can control a game. He can, when the defence is fit make the team hard to beat and as this is League One, that will quite often get you three points. But when elements are not right he can't find tactics to impose ourselves.LargeAddick said:
Spot on.cafcfan1990 said:That's two post matches in a row that Bows has spouted absolute shite. Hold your hands up, admit your mistakes. If you have a grievance with a player, do it in a professional manner.
The thing is he takes Williams off but instead brings on another defender we drop forever deeper then he’s amazed when someone makes a mistake and we concede. I truely think he’s losing it but why I don’t know.
We have a decent squad, but he set up today to stop Shrewsbury because he didn't trust our ability to try to beat them through offensive dominance. It is true, Burton, MK Dons and Shrewsbury prioritise stopping us, but it works if we try to outplay them, so we play the same way and the extra bit of quality we have means we may edge the game. That is what our game plan was today and it was obvious from the starting team sheet.
Fwiw I'm still pro Bowyer but he can't act in the way he has the last few weeks every time it doesn't go our way, he wants to talk today about Williams not fighting for the team, well how about he shows some of that and take it on the chin about some of his decisions and stop digging individuals.0 - Sponsored links:
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Jensen worked hard for the team - lazy commentDiscoCAFC said:https://twitter.com/louismend/status/1335270719975022592?s=21I tried not to jump to conclusions when he got taken off but after reading that I thought that was a very poor excuse to take him off. I thought he impacted the play well and was making so many decent runs and even set up the goal.
But to be taken off over 1 challenge is pretty pathetic. So glad Bowyer didn’t manage Claus Jenson as he wasn’t the kind of player to challenge.1 -
Those were the sort of things Mourinho got upto in his second spell at Chelsea.KentishAddick said:Whether or not Williams bottled a challenge isn't important. You don't publicly humiliate a player by subbing him off shortly after bringing him on and then mug him off completely in the post match interview. You deal with it behind closed doors.
I've lost respect for Bows today and I hope this comment and his one about the fans isn't the start of a new trend.
As we all know, that spell didn't end well for him.5 -
Slating players in public is totally wrong and will lose him the dressing room sharpish.
This season he’s unnecessarily publicly shamed Williams, Maddison, Bogle and Morgan.
Previous comments about Marshall and especially Page were so out of order. It’s makes me concerned that perhaps he’s not a great man manager.3 -
Mmmh Bow's is looking in control of the squad atm. Maybe time to hire Kieron Dyer as midfield coach.
Jokes aside, petty squabbles are starting to occur which only usually do when there is pressure.1 -
Not everyone is going to like this but I think Bowyer can be bit of a bully with players who he knows are not going to have it in them to bite back at him. Players like Williams and Morgan probably aren’t the most vocal.Yet it’s interesting how he hasn’t called out the more senior lads who can probably give it back a bit more if it were they who were called out publicly (Pratley, Gunter etc).Christ sake, Lyle Taylor literally downed fucking tools on us in the middle of a relegation fight and Bowyer didn’t once come out and shame him for doing it, which he bloody well should have. But then again he knows a player like Taylor would eat him up in a war of words.17
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I think at the time there was nothing he could do about Taylor, the club was peak shamblescafctom said:Not everyone is going to like this but I think Bowyer can be bit of a bully with players who he knows are not going to have it in them to bite back at him. Players like Williams and Morgan probably aren’t the most vocal.Yet it’s interesting how he hasn’t called out the more senior lads who can probably give it back a bit more if it were they who were called out publicly (Pratley, Gunter etc).Christ sake, Lyle Taylor literally downed fucking tools on us in the middle of a relegation fight and Bowyer didn’t once come out and shame him for doing it, which he bloody well should have. But then again he knows a player like Taylor would eat him up in a war of words.
As far as more experienced professionals go that type of thing I don't imagine holds much weight as it would with someone with less games under their belt, Prattley, Gunter and Watson aren't going to change their game now and they do the simple stuff by and large very well.
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He was right to be careful with his words concerning Taylor, as he is wrong to dig out players and even the fans publicly. And whilst he is throwing the blame around, he is not putting his hand up and protecting players. That is definitely how you lose a dressing room pretty quickly.Carter said:
I think at the time there was nothing he could do about Taylor, the club was peak shamblescafctom said:Not everyone is going to like this but I think Bowyer can be bit of a bully with players who he knows are not going to have it in them to bite back at him. Players like Williams and Morgan probably aren’t the most vocal.Yet it’s interesting how he hasn’t called out the more senior lads who can probably give it back a bit more if it were they who were called out publicly (Pratley, Gunter etc).Christ sake, Lyle Taylor literally downed fucking tools on us in the middle of a relegation fight and Bowyer didn’t once come out and shame him for doing it, which he bloody well should have. But then again he knows a player like Taylor would eat him up in a war of words.
As far as more experienced professionals go that type of thing I don't imagine holds much weight as it would with someone with less games under their belt, Prattley, Gunter and Watson aren't going to change their game now and they do the simple stuff by and large very well.2 -
The point about Taylor is a really good one.cafctom said:Not everyone is going to like this but I think Bowyer can be bit of a bully with players who he knows are not going to have it in them to bite back at him. Players like Williams and Morgan probably aren’t the most vocal.Yet it’s interesting how he hasn’t called out the more senior lads who can probably give it back a bit more if it were they who were called out publicly (Pratley, Gunter etc).Christ sake, Lyle Taylor literally downed fucking tools on us in the middle of a relegation fight and Bowyer didn’t once come out and shame him for doing it, which he bloody well should have. But then again he knows a player like Taylor would eat him up in a war of words.
It’s weird if it’s pressure making him react like this.This is arguably his least pressurised time as manager. Settled behind the scenes, no transfer embargo he’s unable to talk about.It feels to me like there’s something else going on but no idea what that is or if I’m reading too much into the last week.2 -
As Williams chose to trigger the contract extension after relegation, would he be using a large chunk of our wage budget? Looks to me like Bowyer didn’t want him to stay, Williams chose to stay and now Bowyer wouldn’t mind getting rid in January to free up wages for a player he wants.4
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Another thing about Bow’s tendency to “shoot from the lip” is that it could make it a lot more difficult to attract and keep young loanees from higher status clubs. The likes of Famewo and Maarten won’t want to be around an unhappy dressing room and their clubs won’t want that either. Watch them get pulled back in January if Bows doesn’t sort it.0
