Harsh on Williams today

Charltonparklane said:

Off_it said:

Charltonparklane said:

Off_it said:

cafcfan1990 said:

Off_it said:

If you pull out of a tackle in a Sunday League game that's not acceptable in my book, particularly when most of your teammates are working their nuts off for the cause. Pulling out of a tackle as a professional is inexcusable. I'm not talking about 50/50 bone crushers - I'm talking about standard tackles that he shirks.

Fact is that Williams has not been at it all season, and he wasn't exactly great last season either. Yes he wins free kicks, but he flatters to deceive most of the time.

To say "tackling isn't his game" is complete horseshit. But let's go with that and say it isn't. So just what IS his game - scoring goals? No. Getting assists? No. What then? The best that's been offered here is winning free kicks that lead to goals. Really? Who's been scoring these free kicks then?

If I'm playing right back and he bottles a tackle in front of me then I'm livid and would be screaming at the manager to get him off. 

The team is more important than one blokes feelings. Was it harsh? Probably. Did he deserve it? Probably.

You honestly feel he deserved to be publicly humiliated? I cannot actually remember the challenge, but let's assume it happened, I have no issues with Bowyer slamming him behind closed doors. But to do like he did was plain wrong, just as it was when he said a load of crap in the week. 

If making a change is for the benefit of the team then I wouldn't care if he felt humiliated or not. If he shirks one challenge then who's to say he isn't going to shirk more?

One players feelings don't trump the team collective.

We were shit, shit shit, don't call out JW or AM, it's your tactics for 12months why we are in this mess 

What "mess"? 

Genuinely not having a pop, but we have been a shit show for years now and finally when we manage to cobble a squad together in two weeks people have suddenly turned on the manager after a few bad results. 

It's fair to say performances haven't been spectacular - even when we were on the winning run - but seriously, the last few years have surely taught is that we are in no way in a "mess" right now. 

Come on fellas, get some perspective. If this type of things carries on then by all means go mental. But people throwing their toys out the pram now is surely the type of self-entitled behaviour we laugh at the likes of Spurs and Arsenal fans displaying. 

Maybe I'm just more patient than the average fan. Maybe Russell Slade had more of an impact on me than I thought.

Good structured return @off_it

The mess I'd say we are in mate is probably since Hull away (and before that Derby Home) we've been shit.

Yes, 100% injuries played a part in a  dreadful run to lockdown and I support that young inexperienced side with judases around the squad completely.

We come back from lockdown and get a couple of good results but we were dire, absolute dire and a team of players (that IMO  were good enough to stay up and would have under experienced manager)

Brum got one point in their last 7 games to keep them up (or something like that).

We don't attack sides, we are better player for player but don't know what to do if we can't make the opposition play the way we want them to play. 

Anyone can check through my posts in my supptot for Bow's and the team the past 2/3 years but I've lost faith, honestly I'd listen to Bows talk all day, watch any programme he's on but what we are churning up right now is dreadful IMO.

There is no leadership, even though we should have 3 on that pitch.

Pratley was a better player without experienced pros around him last season so what's the difference this season?

That's not my job that's Bows to work out and for the last 10 games we have looked anything but a promotion side. 

Off_it said:

If you pull out of a tackle in a Sunday League game that's not acceptable in my book, particularly when most of your teammates are working their nuts off for the cause. Pulling out of a tackle as a professional is inexcusable. I'm not talking about 50/50 bone crushers - I'm talking about standard tackles that he shirks.

Fact is that Williams has not been at it all season, and he wasn't exactly great last season either. Yes he wins free kicks, but he flatters to deceive most of the time.

To say "tackling isn't his game" is complete horseshit. But let's go with that and say it isn't. So just what IS his game - scoring goals? No. Getting assists? No. What then? The best that's been offered here is winning free kicks that lead to goals. Really? Who's been scoring these free kicks then?

If I'm playing right back and he bottles a tackle in front of me then I'm livid and would be screaming at the manager to get him off. 

The team is more important than one blokes feelings. Was it harsh? Probably. Did he deserve it? Probably.

Covered End said:

Scoham said:

Cafc43v3r said:

Lurker said:

As Williams chose to trigger the contract extension after relegation, would he be using a large chunk of our wage budget? Looks to me like Bowyer didn’t want him to stay, Williams chose to stay and now Bowyer wouldn’t mind getting rid in January to free up wages for a player he wants. 

I have no idea how much JW is on, but I would bet its considerably more than 2.5k a week, or what ever the average is.  If he goes in January could you bring in a better player on 2.5k a week?

Highly unlikely imo 

But could we bring in a more effective player? Someone fitter and not so injury prone?

We definitely could.
Some of our fans seem to accept that players can only play for 60 mins.
It's been going on for so long they think it's normal.
It's not.

cafcsinger said:

Grapevine49 said:

Well I have to say reading many of these comments on this board over the past 24hrs I have lost total respect for many contributors. This team is never, ever, ever about any one player. IT IS ABOUT THE TEAM. As a team member YOU DO THE JOB YOU ARE ASKED TO DO. This fallacy that any player who has skill on the ball is absolved of all responsibility "off the ball" is 50yrs out of date.

In todays world if you cannot do the job then you do not stay on the pitch.

I like Williams but he has locked himself into a perverse mind set. To quote his job for Wales he describes as " to carry the ball up field and win fouls for Gareth and others to exploit.

If you were undertaking a player interview for attacking midfield player with Williams I imagine it will go something like this.

So Jonny as an attacking midfield player could you tell me how many goals you have scored?

Well I don't score a lot of goals I tend to focus on the creative side. (1 goal in 57 appearances) 

On the creative side could you tell me what is your range and accuracy of passing

Well I don't always focus on passing the ball a lot these days. I tend to carry and dribble the ball. Its very exciting. The fans love it.

Could you then share just how many goal assists you have recorded when focusing on the creative side?

Well I am still working on that because I do get fouled a lot  (6 assists in 57 appearances - the last assist  19.10.2019)

Could you tell me with your dribbling skills how many penalties you have won over the season?

Well  I do not normally get that far up field - but I am very good at winning fouls in non threatening areas.

Jonny do you remember that coaching session when you were 12yrs old when the PE teacher gave the best dribbler in the team the ball on the halfway line and then had 4 team mates positioned from the halfway line to the penalty area at 10yards intervals. He then asked the best dribbler to dribble the ball from the half way line while his 4 team mates were asked to pass the ball through to the penalty area? Do you remember which ball arrived quicker in the penalty area?

No I must have been off sick that day.

OK well how would you define your defensive skills in working for the team?

Well I am very mobile, pretty quick and work really very hard in running around a lot. Did I mention I was very good at winning fouls?

I repeat I like Williams. He is mobile, quite quick, has excellent technical ability but by comparison his end product IS woeful. In training I would give him a bonus for every first time pass which hit its target (2 touch should be the norm) and fine him for every third, fourth, fifth touch out side of a 25yard line from the opponents goal line. He is built for pass and move. No bugger should get near him but Claus Jensen really?

What do you not understand? With the best will in the world he can never be relied upon as a mainstay contributor because he is made of glass. In nearly 2 calendar years he has completed 90 mins just 7 times. You simply cannot rely on him getting through one game within the current schedule let alone see him as a mainstay regular contributor. Yesterday he was called on to do a job WITH AND WITHOUT the ball. Did he do the job? No he bloody didn't.

The message could not be simpler.  Twinkle toes must twinkle has its uses in VERY limited circumstances. In every aspect of his demeanour he is a team player. He just needs to realign what that means in delivering to the same concept when he is on the field. His injury travails likely mean he may never move beyond the periphery of any team but he has to seize every opportunity. He didn't. In the new world of the salary cap  I genuinely fear for his future in the professional game.

I wish him all the very best but he simply has to offer more.  

What a complete garbage post. If you’re gonna to waste my time please try and do it a little quicker and save the essay.

Covered End said:

Bowyer lost his temper and subbed Williams for bottling out of tackles.
Williams shouldn't bottle tackles and Bowyer shouldn't lose his temper.
The end.   

cafcsinger said:

cafcfan1990 said:

cafcsinger said:

One thing which hasn’t been mentioned much (may be wrong on this) is that the 50/50 Williams challenge he so called bottled, i think it would have almost certainly been a foul and a yellow if he went through with it. Regardless terrible man management from Bowyer on this occasion imo. Williams seems like an arm round the shoulder sort of player to me and i think Bowyer has misread this one.

I do also think its fair to criticise Bowyer while also debating Williams role in the team. His goal/assist record since being here has been very disappointing because we know he is quality on his day. Regardless subbing him on and off because ‘ya don’t do that in my teams’ aint gonna help!

I've been quite vocal in my criticism of Bowyer but I have to disagree there. If Williams has let the team down, I don't think it's acceptable to simply put his arm round him and tell him to do better next time. Players should face criticism from their manager if they make mistakes, bottle challenges etc. Just not in the way Bowyer does on occasions. 

Fair enough, i’m not saying give Williams a free pass but i just don’t think Bowyer should do that in public particularly to a player like Williams. More understandable to lose your temper after the game in private. If Williams had stayed on would we have held on? Impossible to say i guess. 

Covered End said:

Bowyer lost his temper and subbed Williams for bottling out of tackles.
Williams shouldn't bottle tackles and Bowyer shouldn't lose his temper.
The end.   

Cafc43v3r said:

Covered End said:

Scoham said:

Cafc43v3r said:

Lurker said:

As Williams chose to trigger the contract extension after relegation, would he be using a large chunk of our wage budget? Looks to me like Bowyer didn’t want him to stay, Williams chose to stay and now Bowyer wouldn’t mind getting rid in January to free up wages for a player he wants. 

I have no idea how much JW is on, but I would bet its considerably more than 2.5k a week, or what ever the average is.  If he goes in January could you bring in a better player on 2.5k a week?

Highly unlikely imo 

But could we bring in a more effective player? Someone fitter and not so injury prone?

We definitely could.
Some of our fans seem to accept that players can only play for 60 mins.
It's been going on for so long they think it's normal.
It's not.

And that's part of the problem.  With the exception of Albie, who has never played for anyone else, they all have until they rock up in SE7. 

I might be wrong but when Robinson was here JFC seemed to be able manage back to back 90 minutes. Chuks did for mk dons, Williams even does for Wales now.

In the last 18 months have we had a single player that hasn't had a "months not weeks" injury?  It can't be that the play flat out because Stevie Wonder could see they dont, or haven't for the last year.

The only conclusion possible is that they are either over trained or all on the fags, booze and junk food. Because they ALL look knackered before we even kick off, then proceed to run through treacle for 60 minutes, then get subbed.