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The "dregs"
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We have a number of issues, but I don’t think that “dregs” is one of them.We have experienced players making stupid mistakes. Defenders who can’t keep their hands off opponents. A hard-wiring to play out from the back...all the time! Because of that, passing to teammates under pressure when opponents know what we’re doing and press high on us...but we still do it. Short, quick free kicks. Again, no thought about what we’re doing and passing to players already under pressure. We need to change it up now and again. Opponents know what we’re going to do from the back and punishing us.We’re amongst the top scorers in the division, but we know we aren’t clinical enough. Some of the missed chances are so frustrating.Losing Famewo, Inniss & Shinnie for so long, after a great run, and not being able to use Aneke for 90 minutes has taken its toll.There’s issues here with the coaching. I understand the obsession with playing out from the back. The best teams are doing it. We’re not amongst the best teams by a long way and have to see that we can’t do this every time.The players are good enough for this division but, like in Duchatelet’s time, we have a very strong first 11 and then a drop in quality for cover. Not dregs, but not the best either. It’s not for lack of trying this time, it’s the restrictions of the cap we have to work under.7
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I said this to Bowyer last season and he would not have it.TelMc32 said:There’s issues here with the coaching. I understand the obsession with playing out from the back. The best teams are doing it. We’re not amongst the best teams by a long way and have to see that we can’t do this every time.1 -
I don't think the point has ever been that these are poor quality players that no-one else wanted so much as they weren't necessarily the players that we wanted. None of them are terrible footballers, even Bogle can do a job at this level for someone. One of our main problems this season is that we have decent players but not that much clarity on how we want to use them, which can happen if you planned to play a certain way, missed out on your key targets and then brought in players who are decent but not that well suited to your style. Our recruitment has been much more focused in January as a result of us being able to start from the very beginning of the window. We know we missed out of some preferred targets over the summer, hopefully when the next summer comes around we won't have that problem again
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Hmmm... so don’t buy a fork if you want to eat soup, is my interpretation of what your saying. Just because you can’t eat soup with it, doesn’t make it a shit fork.... !Garrymanilow said:I don't think the point has ever been that these are poor quality players that no-one else wanted so much as they weren't necessarily the players that we wanted. None of them are terrible footballers, even Bogle can do a job at this level for someone. One of our main problems this season is that we have decent players but not that much clarity on how we want to use them, which can happen if you planned to play a certain way, missed out on your key targets and then brought in players who are decent but not that well suited to your style. Our recruitment has been much more focused in January as a result of us being able to start from the very beginning of the window. We know we missed out of some preferred targets over the summer, hopefully when the next summer comes around we won't have that problem again1 -
It's not even a question that, as you put it ....... "so many people are are 100% of the opinion, that our two best players by a Country Mile are Inniss an Famewo".RaplhMilne said:It scares me that so many people are are 100% of the opinion, that our two best players by a Country Mile are Inniss an Famewo. Now whilst they had put together a good central pairing, who’s to say that will be the case when/If they return. When Lyle returned form his injury last season, he struggled to get back to form. As I have said elsewhere, every week they don’t play, they seem to become better and better players. Let’s stop hanging our hat, on their return, as being the saviour of our season.
The problem has been the dirty great hole that they left behind. It's since been always our achilles heel.
It's left us vulnerable, conceding soft goals and cock ups; and replacements have often not been as effective ..... it's not helped that those replacements have been an out of position Pratley and Gunther, or an off the pace Jason Pearce, who for all his effort can't seem to make up time on his lost pre-season, missing the first dozen games, and his slow injury ravaged ageing body.
Deji comes out with credit in recent games - but it does beg the question as to why Bowyer wouldn't use him earlier?
And we still need to plug that 'dirty great hole'.
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That is not a good interpretation. I actually think we have a decent squad, but considering we had to make so many signings so late in the window we missed out on a lot of players we wanted and had to bring in players who were close to what we wanted but maybe not exactly it, all based on who was still available. Bogle's a good example; we needed someone to come in. Aneke wasn't fit enough and we needed someone to start games, but a lot of players were either out of our reach because of the cap or had already moved to another club. We had to get someone in to fill that role though and we signed the best that was available, he's just unfortunately not that well suited to what we want him to do. We'll see in the summer when we're competing from the start under the same wage cap rules if we are able to bring in the players we'd want at the top of our list.RaplhMilne said:
Hmmm... so don’t buy a fork if you want to eat soup, is my interpretation of what your saying. Just because you can’t eat soup with it, doesn’t make it a shit fork.... !Garrymanilow said:I don't think the point has ever been that these are poor quality players that no-one else wanted so much as they weren't necessarily the players that we wanted. None of them are terrible footballers, even Bogle can do a job at this level for someone. One of our main problems this season is that we have decent players but not that much clarity on how we want to use them, which can happen if you planned to play a certain way, missed out on your key targets and then brought in players who are decent but not that well suited to your style. Our recruitment has been much more focused in January as a result of us being able to start from the very beginning of the window. We know we missed out of some preferred targets over the summer, hopefully when the next summer comes around we won't have that problem again
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Let’s go back to summer 2019, when we forced to replace Bielik, Aribo, Grant , Bauer and Dijksteel with bargain basement players largely :Cafc43v3r said:I am, and I am sure others are as well, sick of hearing that Bowyer could only sign the dregs that no one else wanted after the takeover.
So for convenience can you all put who these substandard players we were forced to sign on minimal wages here?
Not who hasn't performed to a standard you would expect from them. Just the ones no one else wanted. For avoidance of doubt let's leave Bogle out of it/have him as a given.
Permanent:
Purrington - dire
Aneke- good this season when fit
Lockyer / good but gone
Oztumer - talented but didn’t do much
Oshilaja - in and out
Amos - in and out
Gunter - ok
Washington- ok
Matthews- ok; liked him last season
Bogle - awful
Watson - in and out
Schwartz- too early to say .Innis- good when fit .Obviously many of our loans have been good in that time .I would say Aneke is the only one of these players that would have got into our regular side in 18/19.0 -
The issue I believe is the way the team is set up, regardless to some extent of formations and players.
The teams that concede few goals are difficult to break down.
Chelsea won the Champions League, Greece won the Euros in 2004.
If you defend efficiently with 2 banks of players between the ball and the goal you shouldn't concede many.
We are wide open letting the opposition have free shots on goal.
We could have the two best centre halves in the world playing, but if you're not defending as a team, blocking the way through, blocking shots, even they would struggle.3 -
I see your point but Bowyer said he wanted/tried to sign Maddison, Gunter, Smyth and Watson at various stages of last season. I think Matthews could be put in that category, or count as a resigning not a new one.Garrymanilow said:I don't think the point has ever been that these are poor quality players that no-one else wanted so much as they weren't necessarily the players that we wanted. None of them are terrible footballers, even Bogle can do a job at this level for someone. One of our main problems this season is that we have decent players but not that much clarity on how we want to use them, which can happen if you planned to play a certain way, missed out on your key targets and then brought in players who are decent but not that well suited to your style. Our recruitment has been much more focused in January as a result of us being able to start from the very beginning of the window. We know we missed out of some preferred targets over the summer, hopefully when the next summer comes around we won't have that problem again
The strikers were a problem because until 1 minute before the deadline they thought they were getting Schwartz.
I think we can say Bogle was signed because he was still available but other than him I am not sure it holds firm.
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All this because he didn’t sign your “Mooney 23” shirt.ValleyGary said:Naming people of the current squad does no favours and we need to stick with them.However, I will name dregs of previous teams. David Mooney will always be my ultimate dreg. He isn’t the worst footballer we’ve ever had but he was so pathetic and lightweight it really pissed me off. So yeah, there’s my dreg.0 - Sponsored links:
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Seems unfair not to allow the dregsyest of our dregs on a list of dregs!Cafc43v3r said:
I see your point but Bowyer said he wanted/tried to sign Maddison, Gunter, Smyth and Watson at various stages of last season. I think Matthews could be put in that category, or count as a resigning not a new one.Garrymanilow said:I don't think the point has ever been that these are poor quality players that no-one else wanted so much as they weren't necessarily the players that we wanted. None of them are terrible footballers, even Bogle can do a job at this level for someone. One of our main problems this season is that we have decent players but not that much clarity on how we want to use them, which can happen if you planned to play a certain way, missed out on your key targets and then brought in players who are decent but not that well suited to your style. Our recruitment has been much more focused in January as a result of us being able to start from the very beginning of the window. We know we missed out of some preferred targets over the summer, hopefully when the next summer comes around we won't have that problem again
The strikers were a problem because until 1 minute before the deadline they thought they were getting Schwartz.
I think we can say Bogle was signed because he was still available but other than him I am not sure it holds firm.0 -
Ledley was past it, but Davis definitely should be able to do a job in this division. He's now signed for ShrewsburyChris_from_Sidcup said:There aren't really any that we have now.
Last season you could absolutely put Joe Ledley and David Davis into the 'we need someone it doesn't matter who' category.
Even Matt Smith who did nothing of note for us is playing regularly and performing well for Doncaster who are above us in the table.0 -
How many players are playing consistently, like a 7/10 or above each week? JFC & Millar are the only ones that come to mind in recent weeks and I'm struggling to think of anyone that's been consistent from the start of the season. I know the team has been chopped and changed for various reasons but someone like Gunter who I expected to be a 'Mr Reliable' hasn't always given us the performances.
I've managed a couple of teams and regardless of the level you'll have your consistant players and when they don't perform you find yourself scratching your head. What I'm getting at is we signed some good players but overall as a team we haven't had that settled side or consistant performances to get the results we want. LB has been unlucky with injuries but he needs to lay down a blue print for this side. Settle on a formation, settle on a first choice starting 11 and make it clear to the players what your plans are with midweek rotation etc.
Sometimes squads just don't work. Look at Chelsea at the moment, all the class in the world but something just isn't clicking. I fear that we are in that mould. We will nick wins here and there but we just lack that spark, that chemistry from front to back that will not get us other the line. Now is the time to sort it.2 -
I think sometimes players need time to gel together. Time to understand the runs they make and different styles. Usually a pre-season helps. That is where signing players late is a disadvantage. But Bowyer has chopped and changed too quickly and with Saturday, Tuesday, Saturday, Tuesday should have trusted the quality he had and played simpler systems.
One thing is for sure, for a team in League One, baring suspension and injuries, supporters of a successful team will know who will be playing in the next game. One of the problems is we don't. That tells you that Bowyer has lost his way. Sometimes you need to go back to basics, but he has over complicated.
There is no reason to say this group of players can't play with each other. It is the job of the manager to get them playing together.1
