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The rise of the vegans.
Comments
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Isn’t the debate really about exploitation or non exploitation essentially?
I am not aware of the slaughter of creatures having that much differentiation.Maybe some animals are allowed to groove with their families one last time before death, and are given the last rites with words or sounds of comfort before the end comes as gently as a leaf detaching itself from a tree in Autumn.
The bald fact is that creatures are exploited, whilst humans construct ever more elaborate reasons why that is actually all right, and how much better things are for the animals to be the subject of human exploitation.
A bit of honesty might help the debate, the way the moral issue is held at arms length by those who ‘gain’ from animal exploitation means creatures are likely to continue to suffer way into the future.4 -
Think about it logically.....JaShea99 said:
I wasn’t being obtuse, I was repeating myself because there wasn’t much of an answer beyond a few websites, a video and a “why aren’t you just taking everything you see on the internet at face value?” kind of attitude. The articles and video were horrific, obviously. But it was mainly the words ‘routinely’ and ‘common practice’ etc that I was questioning.AddickUpNorth said:JaShea99 said:All I asked was whether there was evidence that it’s common practice or not. If it’s true I’m not sure why it isn’t bigger news and doesn’t feature more prominently on major news sources. Maybe that’s naive though and the answer would be that it’s a big cover up.
You just seemed to be being deliberately obtuse with your persistence in repeating yourself. I can’t give you the precise reason why more people aren’t aware of it but in all honesty are the players in the egg industry, a multi million pound industry, going to want to highlight the horrendous truth about what they do when they know the possible reaction? Sad fact is they like to present their business as one where chickens happily potter about, enjoying life when for the vast majority of hens the opposite is true. Keep the consumer in the dark and the money keeps on rolling in.
39million commercial egg laying hens in the UK.....
Unless chicken ivf produces more females than males there should be at least 39million male chickens cutting about the UK shouldn't there?
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When I see the condition the hens live in I sometimes wonder if the males are the ‘lucky’ ones. I’m always amazed how little people know about these conditions. I did a rehoming yesterday and explained that they were ex - caged hens and one woman thought that these had been banned years ago. People also thought the hens looked really bald - but they were actually one of the better lot I’ve seen.mrbligh said:
Think about it logically.....JaShea99 said:
I wasn’t being obtuse, I was repeating myself because there wasn’t much of an answer beyond a few websites, a video and a “why aren’t you just taking everything you see on the internet at face value?” kind of attitude. The articles and video were horrific, obviously. But it was mainly the words ‘routinely’ and ‘common practice’ etc that I was questioning.AddickUpNorth said:JaShea99 said:All I asked was whether there was evidence that it’s common practice or not. If it’s true I’m not sure why it isn’t bigger news and doesn’t feature more prominently on major news sources. Maybe that’s naive though and the answer would be that it’s a big cover up.
You just seemed to be being deliberately obtuse with your persistence in repeating yourself. I can’t give you the precise reason why more people aren’t aware of it but in all honesty are the players in the egg industry, a multi million pound industry, going to want to highlight the horrendous truth about what they do when they know the possible reaction? Sad fact is they like to present their business as one where chickens happily potter about, enjoying life when for the vast majority of hens the opposite is true. Keep the consumer in the dark and the money keeps on rolling in.
39million commercial egg laying hens in the UK.....
Unless chicken ivf produces more females than males there should be at least 39million male chickens cutting about the UK shouldn't there?1 -
Huge respect to you, dear friend.Arsenetatters said:
When I see the condition the hens live in I sometimes wonder if the males are the ‘lucky’ ones. I’m always amazed how little people know about these conditions. I did a rehoming yesterday and explained that they were ex - caged hens and one woman thought that these had been banned years ago. People also thought the hens looked really bald - but they were actually one of the better lot I’ve seen.mrbligh said:
Think about it logically.....JaShea99 said:
I wasn’t being obtuse, I was repeating myself because there wasn’t much of an answer beyond a few websites, a video and a “why aren’t you just taking everything you see on the internet at face value?” kind of attitude. The articles and video were horrific, obviously. But it was mainly the words ‘routinely’ and ‘common practice’ etc that I was questioning.AddickUpNorth said:JaShea99 said:All I asked was whether there was evidence that it’s common practice or not. If it’s true I’m not sure why it isn’t bigger news and doesn’t feature more prominently on major news sources. Maybe that’s naive though and the answer would be that it’s a big cover up.
You just seemed to be being deliberately obtuse with your persistence in repeating yourself. I can’t give you the precise reason why more people aren’t aware of it but in all honesty are the players in the egg industry, a multi million pound industry, going to want to highlight the horrendous truth about what they do when they know the possible reaction? Sad fact is they like to present their business as one where chickens happily potter about, enjoying life when for the vast majority of hens the opposite is true. Keep the consumer in the dark and the money keeps on rolling in.
39million commercial egg laying hens in the UK.....
Unless chicken ivf produces more females than males there should be at least 39million male chickens cutting about the UK shouldn't there?4 -
@JaShea99
The Model Code of Practice for the Welfare of Animals: Domestic Poultry states that all culled or surplus newly hatched chicks that are destined for disposal must be treated as humanely as those that will be retained or sold. The Code states that these chicks must be killed promptly by carbon dioxide gassing or maceration. Chicks must then be carefully inspected to ensure they are all are dead.
Maceration is done in a manner to ensure that chicks are killed within a second and, when carried out effectively and competently, this method may be considered more humane than gassing with high concentrations of carbon dioxide. This is because carbon dioxide at high concentrations is aversive to poultry and the method results in prolonged suffering prior to death.
What are the alternatives?
The RSPCA continues to urge the egg industry to invest in alternatives that remove the need for male chick culling and avoid the potential pain and suffering with current killing methods. Technologies such as hormone level analysis of egg fluid, the use of spectrophotometry or cameras, and fluorescence microscopy have all demonstrated sex determination of eggs is possible. Sex determination of eggs during the first few days of incubation allows for sexing prior to the embryo developing a sensory nervous system and potential pain perception. Once egg sexing has occurred, male chick eggs can be removed from incubation and used for other purposes such as processing into animal feed or utilised in laboratories. These emerging technologies are providing commercially viable alternatives to male chick culling. Continual research and innovation in this area will ensure male chick culling can be phased out without delay.
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@AddickUpNorth The breed thing makes a lot of sense, cheers.1
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It's not only the animals that suffer. So does the environment.
And, as a result, so do we.
This Spring, ditch the poultry industry. Adopt a plant-based diet.
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According to this, more Chinese folk are cutting down on their meat intake. Have you noticed this @Stu_of_Kunming @Jessie ?0
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Got myself 2 Quorn stakes from Tesco.
Rumour going round I'm Bi-vegan0 -
So many much better tasting alternatives to quorn. The best vegetarian food doesn't try to replicate meat.Dave2l said:Got myself 2 Quorn stakes from Tesco.
Rumour going round I'm Bi-vegan2 - Sponsored links:
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For some it’s a good way to transition. Flavours and types of food you’re familiar with.Leroy Ambrose said:
So many much better tasting alternatives to quorn. The best vegetarian food doesn't try to replicate meat.Dave2l said:Got myself 2 Quorn stakes from Tesco.
Rumour going round I'm Bi-vegan1 -
Loving all the interest guys, I'm just past my one year anniversary, unfortunately the male chicks being evicersted is a financial reality... Absolutely horrendous.
All the main points have been made on this thread already.
You can live a very healthy life vegan and the environmental benefits are there for all to see, but the biggest thing is no longer paying for a animals to be forcefully impregnated, their children stolen and for a thank you their throat cut when they are spent.
We can afford to feed 20 billion land animals a year but not 8 billion humans.
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More individuals are trying to cut down from what I see, but I imagine overall consumption is still growing as more and more people can afford to eat meat.AddickUpNorth said:According to this, more Chinese folk are cutting down on their meat intake. Have you noticed this @Stu_of_Kunming @Jessie ?
It's hard to know if this is replicated across the country as I live somewhere a lot more 'backwards' than Jessie.0 -
Stu_of_Kunming said:
More individuals are trying to cut down from what I see, but I imagine overall consumption is still growing as more and more people can afford to eat meat.AddickUpNorth said:According to this, more Chinese folk are cutting down on their meat intake. Have you noticed this @Stu_of_Kunming @Jessie ?
It's hard to know if this is replicated across the country as I live somewhere a lot more 'backwards' than Jessie.
Find it quite staggering that the average person was eating 48 kilos of meat per year, that’s a lot of work for the colon. Though to be fair I must be close to that on my hummus intake. It’s interesting that the Chinese government are pushing the environmental issue of consuming meat and I think they should be applauded for that. More Western governments should be addressing that issue imo.
Thanks for responding and you @Jessie1 -
Just done a quick search ref weight consumed. The average Brit consumes 61kg and American 100kg!
That’s crazy.1 -
Wow. That is madness! An average American eats my bodyweight plus my daughter's bodyweight in meat! That's mental.AddickUpNorth said:Just done a quick search ref weight consumed. The average Brit consumes 61kg and American 100kg!
That’s crazy.
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True - but I think this is where a lot of people go wrong. They try the 'meat substitutes' and find them pretty poor, and then never move on to 'proper' vegetarian food - which is generally much betteriainment said:
For some it’s a good way to transition. Flavours and types of food you’re familiar with.Leroy Ambrose said:
So many much better tasting alternatives to quorn. The best vegetarian food doesn't try to replicate meat.Dave2l said:Got myself 2 Quorn stakes from Tesco.
Rumour going round I'm Bi-vegan3 -
Made this for dinner. It was lovely. https://www.connoisseurusveg.com/vegan-irish-stew/3
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I see it uses nutritional yeast flakes. I’ve just this week bought them for the first time. They actually taste sort of cheesy. Good to see a recipe using them!Stig said:Made this for dinner. It was lovely. https://www.connoisseurusveg.com/vegan-irish-stew/1 -
Arsenetatters said:
I see it uses nutritional yeast flakes. I’ve just this week bought them for the first time. They actually taste sort of cheesy. Good to see a recipe using them!Stig said:Made this for dinner. It was lovely. https://www.connoisseurusveg.com/vegan-irish-stew/
Nooch is awesome. Keep a tub on my kitchen counter and will regularly just dip into it and eat it as is. It’s also a really good source of vitamin B12.
@Stig - looks cracking that recipe, I’ll give it a go. Any excuse to get a bit of Guinness in....0 - Sponsored links:
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You eat the flakes just as they are?AddickUpNorth said:Arsenetatters said:
I see it uses nutritional yeast flakes. I’ve just this week bought them for the first time. They actually taste sort of cheesy. Good to see a recipe using them!Stig said:Made this for dinner. It was lovely. https://www.connoisseurusveg.com/vegan-irish-stew/
Nooch is awesome. Keep a tub on my kitchen counter and will regularly just dip into it and eat it as is. It’s also a really good source of vitamin B12.
@Stig - looks cracking that recipe, I’ll give it a go. Any excuse to get a bit of Guinness in....0 -
Arsenetatters said:
You eat the flakes just as they are?AddickUpNorth said:Arsenetatters said:
I see it uses nutritional yeast flakes. I’ve just this week bought them for the first time. They actually taste sort of cheesy. Good to see a recipe using them!Stig said:Made this for dinner. It was lovely. https://www.connoisseurusveg.com/vegan-irish-stew/
Nooch is awesome. Keep a tub on my kitchen counter and will regularly just dip into it and eat it as is. It’s also a really good source of vitamin B12.
@Stig - looks cracking that recipe, I’ll give it a go. Any excuse to get a bit of Guinness in....
Yep. Take a big pinch of them and pop them in my mouth. I think they’re lovely like that but tend to stick in your teeth 🤣1 -
I put them in most things. A good hangover meal is pasta, nooch, chilli and olive oil. I am disgusting I know haha0
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not sure if anyone has mentioned this but if you are missing a half time pie, pukka now do vegan pies
https://www.pukkapies.co.uk/vegan-chicken-mushroom/
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It sounds nice, but I do wish they wouldn't call it vegan chicken. I guess they're trying to appeal to the people who want a 'meat like' replacement for meat.cafcdave123 said:not sure if anyone has mentioned this but if you are missing a half time pie, pukka now do vegan pies
https://www.pukkapies.co.uk/vegan-chicken-mushroom/
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That's exactly it, people who want to do the right thing, but want things that are comparable to what they know.Arsenetatters said:
It sounds nice, but I do wish they wouldn't call it vegan chicken. I guess they're trying to appeal to the people who want a 'meat like' replacement for meat.cafcdave123 said:not sure if anyone has mentioned this but if you are missing a half time pie, pukka now do vegan pies
https://www.pukkapies.co.uk/vegan-chicken-mushroom/
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The Ginster Quorn pasty is really good too.cafcdave123 said:not sure if anyone has mentioned this but if you are missing a half time pie, pukka now do vegan pies
https://www.pukkapies.co.uk/vegan-chicken-mushroom/2 -
I’ve tried the ‘mince’ and onion one and it wasn’t too bad. The pastry was a bit flimsy though so not sure I’d feel that confident of eating it a game what with the chance of structural collapse.cafcdave123 said:not sure if anyone has mentioned this but if you are missing a half time pie, pukka now do vegan pies
https://www.pukkapies.co.uk/vegan-chicken-mushroom/1 -
Definitely couldn't eat the vegan pukka pies at a game pastry isn't chewy enough, I think they're great though. Texturally the chicken one is excellent.2
