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England Cricket 2021 (excluding Ashes)

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  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 69,851
    Oh and Jack Leach has gone from being the drinks carrying spinner, to being the cover for Moeen! He's finally been released from the squad, but is on standby in case of any injuries
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,316
    The actual Denly Jr was last seen sweeping the bowling of one L. Jagger for four, which surely qualifies him for the slot 
  • North Lower Neil
    North Lower Neil Posts: 22,954
    edited August 2021
    So could well be?:

    Burns
    Hameed
    Malan
    Root
    Bairsow
    Pope
    Buttler
    Ali
    Robinson
    Wood if fit, Mahmood if not
    Anderson

    Unless they keep Curran in over Pope and Buttler and Moeen are 6 & 7.  Can't see Overton or Lawrence playing.
  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 33,628
    kentaddick said:
    I do question the logic of recalling a 33 year old with a test average of 27. Are there literally no decent Englishmen that bat 3? 
    Root can bat 3 but refuses to. 
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,316
    If Curran keeps his spot it's one of the most astonishing selections in living memory tbh
  • Addick Addict
    Addick Addict Posts: 39,792
    North Lower Neil said:
    So could well be?:

    Burns
    Hameed
    Malan
    Root
    Bairsow
    Pope
    Buttler
    Ali
    Robinson
    Wood if fit, Mahmood if not
    Anderson

    Unless they keep Curran in over Pope and Buttler and Moeen are 6 & 7.  Can't see Overton or Lawrence playing.
    Not saying Curran, who bowled 40 overs in the last Test, is worth his place but the issue is that we will be going in with just 4 bowlers without him. If Anderson or Wood breaks down we will be down to two seamers. 
  • kentaddick
    kentaddick Posts: 18,729
    3 seamers would mean moeen doing a lot of bowling, which I don’t think we should be that keen on doing. 
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 69,851
    On current form is Buttler worth his place in the side? Give Bairstow back the gloves, have Pope at 5, Bairstow at 6, Moeen at 7 and then you can play Overton at 8 as the 5th bowler. Or Curran if they want the left arm option
  • Chizz
    Chizz Posts: 28,338
    golfaddick said:
    kentaddick said:
    I do question the logic of recalling a 33 year old with a test average of 27. Are there literally no decent Englishmen that bat 3? 
    Root can bat 3 but refuses to. 
    Root batting at four and Anderson at 11 are the only 'safe' positions in the team at the moment.  Root's batting position shouldn't be in any question, at all He's scored more than twice as many runs as anyone else batting at 4 this year - for any country - at an average over 69. 
  • Chizz
    Chizz Posts: 28,338
    killerandflash said:
    On current form is Buttler worth his place in the side? Give Bairstow back the gloves, have Pope at 5, Bairstow at 6, Moeen at 7 and then you can play Overton at 8 as the 5th bowler. Or Curran if they want the left arm option
    The problem with that is Moeen Ali is a better batsman, bowler, fielder, thinker and leader than Overton.  
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  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 69,851
    Chizz said:
    killerandflash said:
    On current form is Buttler worth his place in the side? Give Bairstow back the gloves, have Pope at 5, Bairstow at 6, Moeen at 7 and then you can play Overton at 8 as the 5th bowler. Or Curran if they want the left arm option
    The problem with that is Moeen Ali is a better batsman, bowler, fielder, thinker and leader than Overton.  
    ???

    I have both Moeen and Overton in the side
  • Chizz
    Chizz Posts: 28,338
    killerandflash said:
    Chizz said:
    killerandflash said:
    On current form is Buttler worth his place in the side? Give Bairstow back the gloves, have Pope at 5, Bairstow at 6, Moeen at 7 and then you can play Overton at 8 as the 5th bowler. Or Curran if they want the left arm option
    The problem with that is Moeen Ali is a better batsman, bowler, fielder, thinker and leader than Overton.  
    ???

    I have both Moeen and Overton in the side
    My comment still stands.  Even though I have absolutely no idea what I was thinking when I posted it, especially in response to yours.


    I am sure my comment would have been perfectly clear if I had either read yours properly first, or chosen not to post it at all.  Can we agree never to mention this again? 
  • Addick Addict
    Addick Addict Posts: 39,792
    killerandflash said:
    On current form is Buttler worth his place in the side? Give Bairstow back the gloves, have Pope at 5, Bairstow at 6, Moeen at 7 and then you can play Overton at 8 as the 5th bowler. Or Curran if they want the left arm option
    Trouble is that Buttler is averaging 31 this year and in the same period Pope averages under 23. Bairstow also hasn't kept for more than 50 overs or in a red ball game for a year. 
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 69,851
    Addick Addict said:
    killerandflash said:
    On current form is Buttler worth his place in the side? Give Bairstow back the gloves, have Pope at 5, Bairstow at 6, Moeen at 7 and then you can play Overton at 8 as the 5th bowler. Or Curran if they want the left arm option
    Trouble is that Buttler is averaging 31 this year and in the same period Pope averages under 23. Bairstow also hasn't kept for more than 50 overs or in a red ball game for a year. 
    Buttler got his decent scores right at the beginning of the year though, as he had a decent series in Sri Lanka.

    He then played one match in India, left the Test team for 6 months before returning to struggle against India at home.
  • Todds_right_hook
    Todds_right_hook Posts: 10,884
    killerandflash said:
    On current form is Buttler worth his place in the side? Give Bairstow back the gloves, have Pope at 5, Bairstow at 6, Moeen at 7 and then you can play Overton at 8 as the 5th bowler. Or Curran if they want the left arm option
    Or ask one of the other bowlers to bowl left handed, it can’t be less I effective than Curran.
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 69,851
    Todds_right_hook said:
    killerandflash said:
    On current form is Buttler worth his place in the side? Give Bairstow back the gloves, have Pope at 5, Bairstow at 6, Moeen at 7 and then you can play Overton at 8 as the 5th bowler. Or Curran if they want the left arm option
    Or ask one of the other bowlers to bowl left handed, it can’t be less I effective than Curran.
    "Woody, we've come up with a great way for you to bowl without straining your right shoulder"
  • Addick Addict
    Addick Addict Posts: 39,792
    killerandflash said:
    Addick Addict said:
    killerandflash said:
    On current form is Buttler worth his place in the side? Give Bairstow back the gloves, have Pope at 5, Bairstow at 6, Moeen at 7 and then you can play Overton at 8 as the 5th bowler. Or Curran if they want the left arm option
    Trouble is that Buttler is averaging 31 this year and in the same period Pope averages under 23. Bairstow also hasn't kept for more than 50 overs or in a red ball game for a year. 
    Buttler got his decent scores right at the beginning of the year though, as he had a decent series in Sri Lanka.

    He then played one match in India, left the Test team for 6 months before returning to struggle against India at home.
    But Pope was hardly in great form against NZ (22, 20*, 19 and 23), hasn't scored a 50 in the last year (14 innings) and has had three 50 over games since June (in the last week) scoring 16 runs in total. That, combined with asking Bairstow to keep when he hasn't done so for any comparable period of time in a game for a year doesn't suggest to me that Buttler should be dropped. As we found when Pope did it and with Bracey too, it's not easy to just pick up the gloves especially in Test matches.

    Pope either has to wait to come back or bat at 3 instead of Malan or we go in with just 4 frontline bowlers. 
  • MrOneLung
    MrOneLung Posts: 26,856
    Mark Wood confirmed out of the 3rd test with shoulder injury
  • kentaddick
    kentaddick Posts: 18,729
    Mahmood probably going to make his test debut then. 
  • blackpool72
    blackpool72 Posts: 23,679
    North Lower Neil said:
    So could well be?:

    Burns
    Hameed
    Malan
    Root
    Bairsow
    Pope
    Buttler
    Ali
    Robinson
    Wood if fit, Mahmood if not
    Anderson

    Unless they keep Curran in over Pope and Buttler and Moeen are 6 & 7.  Can't see Overton or Lawrence playing.
    Bat Pope at 5
    Drop Bairstow 
    Bring in Moeen.
    Gives the side a much better ballance 
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  • Addick Addict
    Addick Addict Posts: 39,792
    I do not believe that the number of injuries sustained by fast bowlers sustain these days is a new phenomenon. Given how relatively sheltered they are through central contracts, it does make me wonder how the fast bowlers of the 70s and 80s ever got through the number of overs they did for county and country. I can't help thinking that they did so to the ultimate detriment of their respective bodies.
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 69,851
    blackpool72 said:
    North Lower Neil said:
    So could well be?:

    Burns
    Hameed
    Malan
    Root
    Bairsow
    Pope
    Buttler
    Ali
    Robinson
    Wood if fit, Mahmood if not
    Anderson

    Unless they keep Curran in over Pope and Buttler and Moeen are 6 & 7.  Can't see Overton or Lawrence playing.
    Bat Pope at 5
    Drop Bairstow 
    Bring in Moeen.
    Gives the side a much better ballance 
    Moeen to play alongside Ali?  ;)

    Bairstow was one of our better batsmen in the 2nd Test, would be bizarre to drop him
  • Fanny Fanackapan
    Fanny Fanackapan Posts: 18,738
    edited August 2021
    blackpool72 said:
    North Lower Neil said:
    So could well be?:

    Burns
    Hameed
    Malan
    Root
    Bairsow
    Pope
    Buttler
    Ali
    Robinson
    Wood if fit, Mahmood if not
    Anderson

    Unless they keep Curran in over Pope and Buttler and Moeen are 6 & 7.  Can't see Overton or Lawrence playing.
    Bat Pope at 5
    Drop Bairstow 
    Bring in Moeen.
    Gives the side a much better ballance 
    Gary will be overjoyed that you think he deserves a place ! :-)
  • Addick Addict
    Addick Addict Posts: 39,792
    Addick Addict said:
    I do not believe that the number of injuries sustained by fast bowlers sustain these days is a new phenomenon. Given how relatively sheltered they are through central contracts, it does make me wonder how the fast bowlers of the 70s and 80s ever got through the number of overs they did for county and country. I can't help thinking that they did so to the ultimate detriment of their respective bodies.
    Now here's the thing. Perhaps I'm using the wrong examples but I've compared the number of balls bowled by two from different eras but of a comparable age - Bob Willis bowled 83,921 balls and Stuart Broad has bowled 91,219 balls. That said, I can't see Jofra Archer (17,001 to date and now aged 26) getting anywhere near that given his injuries and penchant for bowling 4 overs in a game!
  • Johnnysummers5
    Johnnysummers5 Posts: 8,469
    Addick Addict said:
    Addick Addict said:
    I do not believe that the number of injuries sustained by fast bowlers sustain these days is a new phenomenon. Given how relatively sheltered they are through central contracts, it does make me wonder how the fast bowlers of the 70s and 80s ever got through the number of overs they did for county and country. I can't help thinking that they did so to the ultimate detriment of their respective bodies.
    Now here's the thing. Perhaps I'm using the wrong examples but I've compared the number of balls bowled by two from different eras but of a comparable age - Bob Willis bowled 83,921 balls and Stuart Broad has bowled 91,219 balls. That said, I can't see Jofra Archer (17,001 to date and now aged 26) getting anywhere near that given his injuries and penchant for bowling 4 overs in a game!

    Sadly, I think Jofra might struggle to ever play test cricket again, he has had problems with he's elbow for quite some time  now, he may end up just playing white ball cricket. I hope I am wrong
  • North Lower Neil
    North Lower Neil Posts: 22,954
    Johnnysummers5 said:
    Addick Addict said:
    Addick Addict said:
    I do not believe that the number of injuries sustained by fast bowlers sustain these days is a new phenomenon. Given how relatively sheltered they are through central contracts, it does make me wonder how the fast bowlers of the 70s and 80s ever got through the number of overs they did for county and country. I can't help thinking that they did so to the ultimate detriment of their respective bodies.
    Now here's the thing. Perhaps I'm using the wrong examples but I've compared the number of balls bowled by two from different eras but of a comparable age - Bob Willis bowled 83,921 balls and Stuart Broad has bowled 91,219 balls. That said, I can't see Jofra Archer (17,001 to date and now aged 26) getting anywhere near that given his injuries and penchant for bowling 4 overs in a game!

    Sadly, I think Jofra might struggle to ever play test cricket again, he has had problems with he's elbow for quite some time  now, he may end up just playing white ball cricket. I hope I am wrong
    Completely agree, I don't think we'll see Jofra in the Test side again sadly.
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 69,851
    Maybe it was his elbow hampering him, but I've not been that impressed with Jofra in Test cricket anyway, I think he's far more suited to white ball cricket. Mark Wood is a better, and more hostile, Test bowler, albeit just as fragile.
  • blackpool72
    blackpool72 Posts: 23,679
    killerandflash said:
    Maybe it was his elbow hampering him, but I've not been that impressed with Jofra in Test cricket anyway, I think he's far more suited to white ball cricket. Mark Wood is a better, and more hostile, Test bowler, albeit just as fragile.
    I agree with this. 
    Wood always seems to give 100 % when bowling in tests Archer often seems to be holding back.
    Having said that it's probably to do with his elbow. 
    A real shame we may never get to see them bowling together in a test again. 
  • kentaddick
    kentaddick Posts: 18,729
    edited August 2021
    Archer looks like he’s holding back because he’s got such a graceful slow looking action. He’s been carrying an injury since the first test of the ashes which is why he’s having so much surgery now. 

    Massive opportunity for mahmood, he could end 2021 with being England’s premier quick in both white and red ball, if he goes to Dubai in October and does well there too.
  • blackpool72
    blackpool72 Posts: 23,679
    kentaddick said:
    Archer looks like he’s holding back because he’s got such a graceful slow looking action. He’s been carrying an injury since the first test of the ashes which is why he’s having so much surgery now. 

    Massive opportunity for mahmood, he could end 2021 with being England’s premier quick in both white and red ball, if he goes to Dubai in October and does well there too.
    I agree he has a graceful action and it's lovely to watch.
    But considering he can bowl at 90mph plus there are times when he was barely reaching 85mph.
    This is what I mean when I say he appears to be holding back.
    Like I said his elbow probably explains why. 

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