don’t understand how Lewis wasn’t given a 12 second head start after the restart.
Why would he be?
That’s the lead he had over Verstappen.
Nah not how the Safety Car works - Its always been a get out of jail card for those in second yet are a big gap behind first place. Hamilton will have benefited the same way that Verstappen has done in the past.
The difference is that in the past, the backmarkers get back into position before the racing restarts - Only on this occasion, a handful were allowed to get out the way so the battle for first could happen, yet any other potential battles couldnt.
Thanks for clarifying. Why not just have the virtual safety car for the duration of the tidy up that would seem a lot easier and fairer. Everyone slows down no gains.
Mercedes should have also taken advantage of free out stop and changed tyres like Red Bull it cost Lewis big time.
They couldn’t give up the track position, Hamilton would have come out behind other cars that didn’t get moved out of the way, win, win for red bull twice, and that’s before the ending shambles. Hamilton was robbed, he was the quickest all day.
Regardless of what he said publicly (and full credit to him as he will have gained a lot of admirers) you can bet your life Hamilton would've been fucking raging off camera. Didn't he question during the race that it was a risk to not bring him in for new tyres?
As an aside though regarding the 'only letting 5 cars unlap themselves' fiasco whilst i understand the argument that it should've been all of them or none of them, why are people so angry about this? If they'd all done it then wouldn't we still have had a one lap race with Max on fresh tyres?
No - to allow them all to pass the safety car would have already started the last lap.
don’t understand how Lewis wasn’t given a 12 second head start after the restart.
Why would he be?
That’s the lead he had over Verstappen.
Nah not how the Safety Car works - Its always been a get out of jail card for those in second yet are a big gap behind first place. Hamilton will have benefited the same way that Verstappen has done in the past.
The difference is that in the past, the backmarkers get back into position before the racing restarts - Only on this occasion, a handful were allowed to get out the way so the battle for first could happen, yet any other potential battles couldnt.
Thanks for clarifying. Why not just have the virtual safety car for the duration of the tidy up that would seem a lot easier to and fairer. Everyone slows down no gains.
Or even a red flag as Hamilton could have gone on to fresh softs as well
To me, admittedly ignorant of the finer points of the sport, the shenanigans at the start when Lewis Hamilton took a short cut was balanced out by the shenanigans at the end. Max Verstappen is a worthy world champion because he was brave enough to visit Kwik fit when Hamilton stayed out on the track. I like Hamilton and wanted him to win, but there is some compensation that the ultra nationalists are pissed off.
What a twat you are.
So you are calling me a twat for saying that Hamilton could’ve changed his tyres earlier?
Don’t be so fucking obtuse. You know very well why you are being called out as a twat.
So it’s being ultra nationalist for a Brit to want a Brit to win? 80,000 at Wembley cheering for England are all ultra nationalists. Or the Irish at Landsdowne Road, or the Chinese in Beijing? I get the impression you take every opportunity to knock anything British.
The comments here are about rules and the decisions around those rules.
Of course people can root for a protagonist if they want to. I deliberately used the word ‘ultra’. I have worked with and known some absolutely wonderful Crystal Palace fans and am easy with their support for that club, but the Crystal Palace ‘ultras’ are a different kettle of fish as far as I am concerned. I commented in my post about the rules and decisions, did you miss that bit, perhaps it is you who is being obtuse. I don’t knock everything British, these islands have a wonderful landscape for a start.
Regardless of what he said publicly (and full credit to him as he will have gained a lot of admirers) you can bet your life Hamilton would've been fucking raging off camera. Didn't he question during the race that it was a risk to not bring him in for new tyres?
As an aside though regarding the 'only letting 5 cars unlap themselves' fiasco whilst i understand the argument that it should've been all of them or none of them, why are people so angry about this? If they'd all done it then wouldn't we still have had a one lap race with Max on fresh tyres?
Well yeah, but that’s not what happened is it. Plus it took Masi ages to even make up a new rule.
If Lewis had pitted the lap after Max, and the race finished under the safety car, he would gave finished second and Mercedes would have been slaughtered for giving away a world title
That's the artificiality of the situation with safety cars, the car following has everything to gain, especially when the race controllers are making up the rules as they go along.
Literally like giving a losing football team a pen in the last min to make it more exciting. Absolutely shocking you need to make up rules to make a sport more entertaining.
I've always been a fringe fan but today has lost me. It's complicated enough at the best of times, without stewards making it up on the spot.
farce, fix or both ? .. first time I have watched F1 for a loooong time and I won't bother for another long time. So, have I got this right, Hamilton leads the race by a country mile, a crash brings out the 'safety car', the cars all bunch up, irrespective of the distance between them over the preceding 50+ laps, and then the race is (seemingly arbitrarily) restarted for a one lap 'sprint' to decide the whole season .. so why bother with the previous 50 odd laps, just have the two main protagonists behind a 'safety car' which then gets out the road and a one lap race decides it .. fucking rubbish, a waste of petrol, tyres, plastic, metal AND my time
Have been watching the last few but won’t be bothering again. How one driver can come in and have his tyres changed and regain his position on the track but another driver can’t? He had gained an advantage anyway by changing tyres and then they clear the track for him to win it. Joke of a sport.
I hope they do appeal so the best car and driver on the day win the race.
The “free pitstop” thing isn’t ideal and is a bit unfair, but that’s the rule at the moment, so I don’t feel I can complain about that too much. Maybe it should change in the future, but it is what it is right now. The last lap decision, however, is the problem here. It wouldn’t be ok even if it didn’t basically decide the championship, but it’s an atrocious decision by Masi and he needs to be chucked out of the sport.
To me, admittedly ignorant of the finer points of the sport, the shenanigans at the start when Lewis Hamilton took a short cut was balanced out by the shenanigans at the end. Max Verstappen is a worthy world champion because he was brave enough to visit Kwik fit when Hamilton stayed out on the track. I like Hamilton and wanted him to win, but there is some compensation that the ultra nationalists are pissed off.
What a twat you are.
So you are calling me a twat for saying that Hamilton could’ve changed his tyres earlier?
Don’t be so fucking obtuse. You know very well why you are being called out as a twat.
So it’s being ultra nationalist for a Brit to want a Brit to win? 80,000 at Wembley cheering for England are all ultra nationalists. Or the Irish at Landsdowne Road, or the Chinese in Beijing? I get the impression you take every opportunity to knock anything British.
The comments here are about rules and the decisions around those rules.
Of course people can root for a protagonist if they want to. I deliberately used the word ‘ultra’. I have worked with and known some absolutely wonderful Crystal Palace fans and am easy with their support for that club, but the Crystal Palace ‘ultras’ are a different kettle of fish as far as I am concerned. I commented in my post about the rules and decisions, did you miss that bit, perhaps it is you who is being obtuse. I don’t knock everything British, these islands have a wonderful landscape for a start.
Hamilton conducted himself like a real gentleman in his interview just now. Not sure I would have given the circumstances. He's gone up massively in my opinion.
Was @Leeds_Addick watching? Might be worth taking some notes.
Regardless of what he said publicly (and full credit to him as he will have gained a lot of admirers) you can bet your life Hamilton would've been fucking raging off camera. Didn't he question during the race that it was a risk to not bring him in for new tyres?
As an aside though regarding the 'only letting 5 cars unlap themselves' fiasco whilst i understand the argument that it should've been all of them or none of them, why are people so angry about this? If they'd all done it then wouldn't we still have had a one lap race with Max on fresh tyres?
No - to allow them all to pass the safety car would have already started the last lap.
Regardless of what he said publicly (and full credit to him as he will have gained a lot of admirers) you can bet your life Hamilton would've been fucking raging off camera. Didn't he question during the race that it was a risk to not bring him in for new tyres?
As an aside though regarding the 'only letting 5 cars unlap themselves' fiasco whilst i understand the argument that it should've been all of them or none of them, why are people so angry about this? If they'd all done it then wouldn't we still have had a one lap race with Max on fresh tyres?
The time it would have taken for them to overtake would have meant the last lap would have been under safety car. It was a decision made to have a last lap race
Regardless of what he said publicly (and full credit to him as he will have gained a lot of admirers) you can bet your life Hamilton would've been fucking raging off camera. Didn't he question during the race that it was a risk to not bring him in for new tyres?
As an aside though regarding the 'only letting 5 cars unlap themselves' fiasco whilst i understand the argument that it should've been all of them or none of them, why are people so angry about this? If they'd all done it then wouldn't we still have had a one lap race with Max on fresh tyres?
I think he did question the tyre decision during the race.
Literally like giving a losing football team a pen in the last min to make it more exciting. Absolutely shocking you need to make up rules to make a sport more entertaining.
It's worse than that, it's like a team being 2-0 up in the champions league final with 10 minutes to go and the ref saying 'well this is petering out, let's have a penalty shoot out' to decide the winner.
I am amazed with how well Lewis conducted himself after that race. Max sacrificed the chance to have track position right behind Lewis while still being on fresher tyres than him, for stopping to get new ones and being further back with a limited number of laps left for the safety car and back markers to be cleared.
The organisers pretty much handed Max the world championship with the way they engineered the end, it brings the whole spectacle of competitive sport into disrepute by making it up as they go along. What could have been an exciting end to one of the most exciting seasons in Formula 1 history has turned the sport into something akin to American Wrestling.
For the simple, me definitely included on this thread, why did MV go into the pits for the last tyre change in 2nd place and return to the track in 2nd place, but if LH went in in 1st place he wouldn't return to the track in the lead ?
Mercedes should have also taken advantage of free out stop and changed tyres like Red Bull it cost Lewis big time.
They couldn’t give up the track position, Hamilton would have come out behind other cars that didn’t get moved out of the way, win, win for red bull twice, and that’s before the ending shambles. Hamilton was robbed, he was the quickest all day.
I agree on that just think of Mercedes could figure out Red Bull was coming in to change tires they could also come in at least it would have given Lewis a fighting chance. Red Bull outsmarted Mercedes today.
To me, admittedly ignorant of the finer points of the sport, the shenanigans at the start when Lewis Hamilton took a short cut was balanced out by the shenanigans at the end. Max Verstappen is a worthy world champion because he was brave enough to visit Kwik fit when Hamilton stayed out on the track. I like Hamilton and wanted him to win, but there is some compensation that the ultra nationalists are pissed off.
What a twat you are.
So you are calling me a twat for saying that Hamilton could’ve changed his tyres earlier?
Don’t be so fucking obtuse. You know very well why you are being called out as a twat.
So it’s being ultra nationalist for a Brit to want a Brit to win? 80,000 at Wembley cheering for England are all ultra nationalists. Or the Irish at Landsdowne Road, or the Chinese in Beijing? I get the impression you take every opportunity to knock anything British.
The comments here are about rules and the decisions around those rules.
Of course people can root for a protagonist if they want to. I deliberately used the word ‘ultra’. I have worked with and known some absolutely wonderful Crystal Palace fans and am easy with their support for that club, but the Crystal Palace ‘ultras’ are a different kettle of fish as far as I am concerned. I commented in my post about the rules and decisions, did you miss that bit, perhaps it is you who is being obtuse. I don’t knock everything British, these islands have a wonderful landscape for a start.
To me, admittedly ignorant of the finer points of the sport, the shenanigans at the start when Lewis Hamilton took a short cut was balanced out by the shenanigans at the end. Max Verstappen is a worthy world champion because he was brave enough to visit Kwik fit when Hamilton stayed out on the track. I like Hamilton and wanted him to win, but there is some compensation that the ultra nationalists are pissed off.
That's not how it works, and those issues are not comparable.
Regardless of what he said publicly (and full credit to him as he will have gained a lot of admirers) you can bet your life Hamilton would've been fucking raging off camera. Didn't he question during the race that it was a risk to not bring him in for new tyres?
As an aside though regarding the 'only letting 5 cars unlap themselves' fiasco whilst i understand the argument that it should've been all of them or none of them, why are people so angry about this? If they'd all done it then wouldn't we still have had a one lap race with Max on fresh tyres?
No - to allow them all to pass the safety car would have already started the last lap.
Ah ok. And Toto/Mercedes aren't appealing this?
Not sure. They’re protesting on two points, but the main one is that the safety car should come in on the lap after the lapped cars overtake the safety car. The “five cars only” issue may be the second point of protest.
Personally, I think it should be an open and shut case in Mercedes favour, but I think the FIA will close ranks. They won’t be happy with Masi because he’s caused this and either way, the FIA look like idiots. I reckon they’ll let the result stand and sack Masi.
Regardless of what he said publicly (and full credit to him as he will have gained a lot of admirers) you can bet your life Hamilton would've been fucking raging off camera. Didn't he question during the race that it was a risk to not bring him in for new tyres?
As an aside though regarding the 'only letting 5 cars unlap themselves' fiasco whilst i understand the argument that it should've been all of them or none of them, why are people so angry about this? If they'd all done it then wouldn't we still have had a one lap race with Max on fresh tyres?
The time it would have taken for them to overtake would have meant the last lap would have been under safety car. It was a decision made to have a last lap race
Then stop the race, and restart it with 5 laps to go. Lewis would lose his 11 second lead, but it would have been a fair shootout for the title with both on fresh tyres
To me, admittedly ignorant of the finer points of the sport, the shenanigans at the start when Lewis Hamilton took a short cut was balanced out by the shenanigans at the end. Max Verstappen is a worthy world champion because he was brave enough to visit Kwik fit when Hamilton stayed out on the track. I like Hamilton and wanted him to win, but there is some compensation that the ultra nationalists are pissed off.
That's not how it works, and those issues are not comparable.
I have said I am not familiar with the finer points of the rules. As an interested observer it felt like karma that the beginning shenanigans were balanced by the ending shenanigans.
For the simple, me definitely included on this thread, why did MV go into the pits for the last tyre change in 2nd place and return to the track in 2nd place, but if LH went in in 1st place he wouldn't return to the track in the lead ?
If Hamilton had gone into the pits then Verstappen wouldnt have done.
Given the gap between the two; Max would have been P1 and Hamilton in P2 - There would have been no assurances that the race would have restarted either so it would have been a huge risk from Mercedes.
Verstappen on the other hand had nothing to lose as was never going to drop to P3 after his second stop.
Painted as sore losers, and all I can see is them either throwing out the appeal, or agreeing with them and discounting the race from the championship, either outcome sees Max as WDC. If they decide anything else (like taking the race result from the standings at the time of the incident that led to the SC) then Red Bull will then counter appeal
Literally like giving a losing football team a pen in the last min to make it more exciting. Absolutely shocking you need to make up rules to make a sport more entertaining.
It's worse than that, it's like a team being 2-0 up in the champions league final with 10 minutes to go and the ref saying 'well this is petering out, let's have a penalty shoot out' to decide the winner.
And the team that were 2-0 up are only allowed to take penalties with their weaker foot
I think Mercedes are in a no win situation here. They appeal, look like sore losers and I feel they won't win it anyways. I hope they show the same class that LH has shown tonight, regardless of the outcome.
I kind of agree, but you could argue they have a cast iron case.
The race director arbitrarily decided to make a decision that was not in the rules in order to change the race. Absolutely not ok.
Totally agree. They should win the appeal hands down. But I think the FIA would 'back their man' and uphold the race standings. And then MB would have a negative backlash.
For the simple, me definitely included on this thread, why did MV go into the pits for the last tyre change in 2nd place and return to the track in 2nd place, but if LH went in in 1st place he wouldn't return to the track in the lead ?
If Hamilton had gone into the pits then Verstappen wouldnt have done.
Given the gap between the two; Max would have been P1 and Hamilton in P2 - There would have been no assurances that the race would have restarted either so it would have been a huge risk from Mercedes.
Verstappen on the other hand had nothing to lose as was never going to drop to P3 after his second stop.
Comments
I have worked with and known some absolutely wonderful Crystal Palace fans and am easy with their support for that club, but the Crystal Palace ‘ultras’ are a different kettle of fish as far as I am concerned.
I commented in my post about the rules and decisions, did you miss that bit, perhaps it is you who is being obtuse.
I don’t knock everything British, these islands have a wonderful landscape for a start.
That's the artificiality of the situation with safety cars, the car following has everything to gain, especially when the race controllers are making up the rules as they go along.
Bring on the darts this week.
The last lap decision, however, is the problem here. It wouldn’t be ok even if it didn’t basically decide the championship, but it’s an atrocious decision by Masi and he needs to be chucked out of the sport.
The organisers pretty much handed Max the world championship with the way they engineered the end, it brings the whole spectacle of competitive sport into disrepute by making it up as they go along. What could have been an exciting end to one of the most exciting seasons in Formula 1 history has turned the sport into something akin to American Wrestling.
Personally, I think it should be an open and shut case in Mercedes favour, but I think the FIA will close ranks.
They won’t be happy with Masi because he’s caused this and either way, the FIA look like idiots.
I reckon they’ll let the result stand and sack Masi.
As an interested observer it felt like karma that the beginning shenanigans were balanced by the ending shenanigans.
Given the gap between the two; Max would have been P1 and Hamilton in P2 - There would have been no assurances that the race would have restarted either so it would have been a huge risk from Mercedes.
Verstappen on the other hand had nothing to lose as was never going to drop to P3 after his second stop.
Painted as sore losers, and all I can see is them either throwing out the appeal, or agreeing with them and discounting the race from the championship, either outcome sees Max as WDC. If they decide anything else (like taking the race result from the standings at the time of the incident that led to the SC) then Red Bull will then counter appeal
*goes for a lie down with a headache.........