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The Ashes 2021/22
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I've said it a few times on here & got shouted down......but will say it again.kentaddick said:
Are you seriously, seriously saying England were better without central contacts? Really?Addick Addict said:
Really? When they don't have to play County cricket? When they were getting paid £700,000 per annum regardless of whether they were in the side or not and players who weren't centrally contracted weren't getting that? When the motivation is to say "thanks for the Central Contract but, by the way, I'm not available to play because I'm knackered having spent three months at the IPL?"kentaddick said:
Strong disagree, central contracts has been a great innovation. This is the first captaincy in which we are not that successful since they’ve been introduced.golfaddick said:Just listening to Harmison on BT Sport.
As we've all said, need to play county cricket. Not The 100. Maybe forget Central contracts & make all players play for their counties again.
The tail is wagging the dog where players are saying they would rather play franchise than Test cricket, And the ECB in their promotion of The Hundred are adding to that.
Counties are financially incentivised by the ECB to have English qualified players in their squads. They are not incentivised to produce Test players, So, as I keep repeating, from grass roots to the very top everything is dominated by white ball cricket. There are no, as far as I am aware, players on red ball only contracts. But loads on white ball only ones. And that will become more and more prevalent as things stand.
Smacks of throwing the baby out with the bath water. Counties don’t want to produce red ball cricketers because they hardly play any red ball cricket. And when they do, their best players are away at the ipl. Re format the county championship, have it played throughout the year (like they used to) and work from there. If you take away central contracts then you can kiss producing the next Jimmy Anderson goodbye - do you really think he’d have lasted as long as he has done without a central contract?
If you give out Central Contracts then those players play for ENGLAND, when ENGLAND ask them to (fitness permitting). Not IPL. If you want to play IPL then fine.....but dont expect to play for ENGLAND as well.
Stokes missed most of this summer due to an injury picked up with the IPL. So, he got a great wedge from them & one from us but didnt play for us.
So - if you want central contracts then the players are mandated to play solely for England. Otherwise back to what was done previously and those players can play IPL.3 -
And getting rid of central contracts isn’t absolutely barking mad?Addick Addict said:
So you think that the ECB will schedule The Hundred and The Blast in April and May? Cloud cuckoo land that is!kentaddick said:And how do we make it easier for those players to play championship matches… maybe don’t schedule the majority of them during the ipl?
It also doesn't address the fact that our white ball players do not play straight. KP was brought up in South Africa. And Buttler is no KP when it comes to Test cricketGet rid of the hundred or the blast - there’s no other way around it. This is the Pandora’s box the ecb opened when creating the hundred and they’ll have to deal with it.The alternative you’re saying is continue the way it is - which is clearly not working. Those that will play in the ipl will still play in the ipl. Red ball players will still be picked 2-3 months after they’d have last played and woefully short of form. This time, Bowlers will retire early from international cricket because of the workload - so we’ll actually be worse off!
now what’s your solution?0 -
That’s how you end up with a team that’s guaranteed to lose IMO… all the talent will go where the money is, sod making time for the red ball stuff.golfaddick said:
I've said it a few times on here & got shouted down......but will say it again.kentaddick said:
Are you seriously, seriously saying England were better without central contacts? Really?Addick Addict said:
Really? When they don't have to play County cricket? When they were getting paid £700,000 per annum regardless of whether they were in the side or not and players who weren't centrally contracted weren't getting that? When the motivation is to say "thanks for the Central Contract but, by the way, I'm not available to play because I'm knackered having spent three months at the IPL?"kentaddick said:
Strong disagree, central contracts has been a great innovation. This is the first captaincy in which we are not that successful since they’ve been introduced.golfaddick said:Just listening to Harmison on BT Sport.
As we've all said, need to play county cricket. Not The 100. Maybe forget Central contracts & make all players play for their counties again.
The tail is wagging the dog where players are saying they would rather play franchise than Test cricket, And the ECB in their promotion of The Hundred are adding to that.
Counties are financially incentivised by the ECB to have English qualified players in their squads. They are not incentivised to produce Test players, So, as I keep repeating, from grass roots to the very top everything is dominated by white ball cricket. There are no, as far as I am aware, players on red ball only contracts. But loads on white ball only ones. And that will become more and more prevalent as things stand.
Smacks of throwing the baby out with the bath water. Counties don’t want to produce red ball cricketers because they hardly play any red ball cricket. And when they do, their best players are away at the ipl. Re format the county championship, have it played throughout the year (like they used to) and work from there. If you take away central contracts then you can kiss producing the next Jimmy Anderson goodbye - do you really think he’d have lasted as long as he has done without a central contract?
If you give out Central Contracts then those players play for ENGLAND, when ENGLAND ask them to (fitness permitting). Not IPL. If you want to play IPL then fine.....but dont expect to play for ENGLAND as well.
Stokes missed most of this summer due to an injury picked up with the IPL. So, he got a great wedge from them & one from us but didnt play for us.
So - if you want central contracts then the players are mandated to play solely for England. Otherwise back to what was done previously and those players can play IPL.
We’d end up with a Test side that’s full of B team players.1 -
If the problem is that we just dont currently have the players in the squad that are suited to playing test cricket then why dont we just approach these last couple of tests as one day games, albeit with two innings.
Surely it cant be any worse than getting 250-20 and the game being over in just over two days?2 -
I’m not sure if you’ve noticed, but the Australians play their cricket during a different period of the Gregorian calendar to us!Addick Addict said:
But the IPL and the ECB won't change the schedule will they? The Hundred and The Blast will be played after the IPL finishes on the 5th June so the CC games have to be played in April and May! And why do Australian batsman like Head and the world's number one best batsman Labushagne play for their State, their Club and a County here? They aren't centrally contracted that's why!kentaddick said:
Right - so by your own admission the problem isn’t central contracts - it’s scheduling of the red ball game. Central contracts have overwhelmingly been seen as a good thing, now apparently as soon as there’s a problem with the team, that’s the real issue - really?Addick Addict said:
I am saying that they have become too reliant on the Central Contract. It's too easy for them to say that they need to rest because they've been playing so much cricket a la Stokes, Buttler, Archer etc etc when a major part of the issue is that they have been away playing franchise cricket. The IPL doesn't finish 'til 3rd June this year - by that time last season Counties had played half of their County Championship matches!!!kentaddick said:
Are you seriously, seriously saying England were better without central contacts? Really?Addick Addict said:
Really? When they don't have to play County cricket? When they were getting paid £700,000 per annum regardless of whether they were in the side or not and players who weren't centrally contracted weren't getting that? When the motivation is to say "thanks for the Central Contract but, by the way, I'm not available to play because I'm knackered having spent three months at the IPL?"kentaddick said:
Strong disagree, central contracts has been a great innovation. This is the first captaincy in which we are not that successful since they’ve been introduced.golfaddick said:Just listening to Harmison on BT Sport.
As we've all said, need to play county cricket. Not The 100. Maybe forget Central contracts & make all players play for their counties again.
The tail is wagging the dog where players are saying they would rather play franchise than Test cricket, And the ECB in their promotion of The Hundred are adding to that.
Counties are financially incentivised by the ECB to have English qualified players in their squads. They are not incentivised to produce Test players, So, as I keep repeating, from grass roots to the very top everything is dominated by white ball cricket. There are no, as far as I am aware, players on red ball only contracts. But loads on white ball only ones. And that will become more and more prevalent as things stand.
Smacks of throwing the baby out with the bath water. Counties don’t want to produce red ball cricketers because they hardly play any red ball cricket. And when they do, their best players are away at the ipl. Re format the county championship, have it played throughout the year (like they used to) and work from there. If you take away central contracts then you can kiss producing the next Jimmy Anderson goodbye - do you really think he’d have lasted as long as he has done without a central contract?
What should happen, in my opinion, is that there should be a much bigger amount paid to those who make each squad with an appearance fee paid on top of that.If you stop centrally contracted players from playing in the ipl, you’re going to have the same problem as the last time the ecb tried doing the same thing - players won’t sign their central contracts. You’ll have another KP situation.It’s bizarre that in order for us to stop repeating the same mistakes as the last 4 years we have to repeat the same mistakes as the previous 20 according to some.1 -
You are totally missing the point because you clearly haven't taken on board the fact that Labushagne, Carey, Harris, Head etc etc played BOTH Sheffield Shield AND Club cricket during THIS summer. How many County Championship and Club games did Buttler play last season?kentaddick said:
I’m not sure if you’ve noticed, but the Australians play their cricket during a different period of the Gregorian calendar to us!Addick Addict said:
But the IPL and the ECB won't change the schedule will they? The Hundred and The Blast will be played after the IPL finishes on the 5th June so the CC games have to be played in April and May! And why do Australian batsman like Head and the world's number one best batsman Labushagne play for their State, their Club and a County here? They aren't centrally contracted that's why!kentaddick said:
Right - so by your own admission the problem isn’t central contracts - it’s scheduling of the red ball game. Central contracts have overwhelmingly been seen as a good thing, now apparently as soon as there’s a problem with the team, that’s the real issue - really?Addick Addict said:
I am saying that they have become too reliant on the Central Contract. It's too easy for them to say that they need to rest because they've been playing so much cricket a la Stokes, Buttler, Archer etc etc when a major part of the issue is that they have been away playing franchise cricket. The IPL doesn't finish 'til 3rd June this year - by that time last season Counties had played half of their County Championship matches!!!kentaddick said:
Are you seriously, seriously saying England were better without central contacts? Really?Addick Addict said:
Really? When they don't have to play County cricket? When they were getting paid £700,000 per annum regardless of whether they were in the side or not and players who weren't centrally contracted weren't getting that? When the motivation is to say "thanks for the Central Contract but, by the way, I'm not available to play because I'm knackered having spent three months at the IPL?"kentaddick said:
Strong disagree, central contracts has been a great innovation. This is the first captaincy in which we are not that successful since they’ve been introduced.golfaddick said:Just listening to Harmison on BT Sport.
As we've all said, need to play county cricket. Not The 100. Maybe forget Central contracts & make all players play for their counties again.
The tail is wagging the dog where players are saying they would rather play franchise than Test cricket, And the ECB in their promotion of The Hundred are adding to that.
Counties are financially incentivised by the ECB to have English qualified players in their squads. They are not incentivised to produce Test players, So, as I keep repeating, from grass roots to the very top everything is dominated by white ball cricket. There are no, as far as I am aware, players on red ball only contracts. But loads on white ball only ones. And that will become more and more prevalent as things stand.
Smacks of throwing the baby out with the bath water. Counties don’t want to produce red ball cricketers because they hardly play any red ball cricket. And when they do, their best players are away at the ipl. Re format the county championship, have it played throughout the year (like they used to) and work from there. If you take away central contracts then you can kiss producing the next Jimmy Anderson goodbye - do you really think he’d have lasted as long as he has done without a central contract?
What should happen, in my opinion, is that there should be a much bigger amount paid to those who make each squad with an appearance fee paid on top of that.If you stop centrally contracted players from playing in the ipl, you’re going to have the same problem as the last time the ecb tried doing the same thing - players won’t sign their central contracts. You’ll have another KP situation.It’s bizarre that in order for us to stop repeating the same mistakes as the last 4 years we have to repeat the same mistakes as the previous 20 according to some.2 -
I don't disagree with this but it won't happen. The Hundred is the ECB and Harrison's bonus payer and The Blast is the County's profit maker. Those that know anything about cricket knew that The Hundred would cause these issues - the ECB should have spent the money re-vamping The Blast but then they wouldn't have made the sort of money they are looking to dokentaddick said:
And getting rid of central contracts isn’t absolutely barking mad?Addick Addict said:
So you think that the ECB will schedule The Hundred and The Blast in April and May? Cloud cuckoo land that is!kentaddick said:And how do we make it easier for those players to play championship matches… maybe don’t schedule the majority of them during the ipl?
It also doesn't address the fact that our white ball players do not play straight. KP was brought up in South Africa. And Buttler is no KP when it comes to Test cricketGet rid of the hundred or the blast - there’s no other way around it. This is the Pandora’s box the ecb opened when creating the hundred and they’ll have to deal with it.The alternative you’re saying is continue the way it is - which is clearly not working. Those that will play in the ipl will still play in the ipl. Red ball players will still be picked 2-3 months after they’d have last played and woefully short of form. This time, Bowlers will retire early from international cricket because of the workload - so we’ll actually be worse off!
now what’s your solution?5 -
Now I am happy to be corrected here but I do believe that the last time that Buttler played a County Championship game was on 28th July 2018 - that is over three years ago. So we are asking someone to play Test cricket, to bat for long periods of time and to keep for a whole day at the highest level when he doesn't even do that as his day job!Addick Addict said:
You are totally missing the point because you clearly haven't taken on board the fact that Labushagne, Carey, Harris, Head etc etc played BOTH Sheffield Shield AND Club cricket during THIS summer. How many County Championship and Club games did Buttler play last season?kentaddick said:
I’m not sure if you’ve noticed, but the Australians play their cricket during a different period of the Gregorian calendar to us!Addick Addict said:
But the IPL and the ECB won't change the schedule will they? The Hundred and The Blast will be played after the IPL finishes on the 5th June so the CC games have to be played in April and May! And why do Australian batsman like Head and the world's number one best batsman Labushagne play for their State, their Club and a County here? They aren't centrally contracted that's why!kentaddick said:
Right - so by your own admission the problem isn’t central contracts - it’s scheduling of the red ball game. Central contracts have overwhelmingly been seen as a good thing, now apparently as soon as there’s a problem with the team, that’s the real issue - really?Addick Addict said:
I am saying that they have become too reliant on the Central Contract. It's too easy for them to say that they need to rest because they've been playing so much cricket a la Stokes, Buttler, Archer etc etc when a major part of the issue is that they have been away playing franchise cricket. The IPL doesn't finish 'til 3rd June this year - by that time last season Counties had played half of their County Championship matches!!!kentaddick said:
Are you seriously, seriously saying England were better without central contacts? Really?Addick Addict said:
Really? When they don't have to play County cricket? When they were getting paid £700,000 per annum regardless of whether they were in the side or not and players who weren't centrally contracted weren't getting that? When the motivation is to say "thanks for the Central Contract but, by the way, I'm not available to play because I'm knackered having spent three months at the IPL?"kentaddick said:
Strong disagree, central contracts has been a great innovation. This is the first captaincy in which we are not that successful since they’ve been introduced.golfaddick said:Just listening to Harmison on BT Sport.
As we've all said, need to play county cricket. Not The 100. Maybe forget Central contracts & make all players play for their counties again.
The tail is wagging the dog where players are saying they would rather play franchise than Test cricket, And the ECB in their promotion of The Hundred are adding to that.
Counties are financially incentivised by the ECB to have English qualified players in their squads. They are not incentivised to produce Test players, So, as I keep repeating, from grass roots to the very top everything is dominated by white ball cricket. There are no, as far as I am aware, players on red ball only contracts. But loads on white ball only ones. And that will become more and more prevalent as things stand.
Smacks of throwing the baby out with the bath water. Counties don’t want to produce red ball cricketers because they hardly play any red ball cricket. And when they do, their best players are away at the ipl. Re format the county championship, have it played throughout the year (like they used to) and work from there. If you take away central contracts then you can kiss producing the next Jimmy Anderson goodbye - do you really think he’d have lasted as long as he has done without a central contract?
What should happen, in my opinion, is that there should be a much bigger amount paid to those who make each squad with an appearance fee paid on top of that.If you stop centrally contracted players from playing in the ipl, you’re going to have the same problem as the last time the ecb tried doing the same thing - players won’t sign their central contracts. You’ll have another KP situation.It’s bizarre that in order for us to stop repeating the same mistakes as the last 4 years we have to repeat the same mistakes as the previous 20 according to some.
https://www.cricketarchive.co.uk/Lancashire/Players/136/136065/County_Championship_Matches.html
But everything's OK because he's on a central contract
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And recently retired cricketer Chris Nash confirms what some of us fear. A lot of professional cricketers don't even want to play red ball cricket
https://twitter.com/chrisnash23
"White ball cricket-more fun, more cash, easier to earn cash, training is more fun and variable and it’s easier to have a good day(30 off 15) Red ball cricket-harder, less cash, more work, have to be top players in the world to earn big cash, a good day is (100 off 220) Which one?"
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Do we play more tests per year than other teams ?Probably skewed last couple years by Covid but do we have more series/more tours etc than other countries ?0
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You'd need to get all the best players into the top division. Maybe part of the central contract would be to be taken out of their county team and loaned to a first division side, if the player is with a division 2 county? Even then, getting a high standard bowling attack would mean 2 or 3 international standard bowlers in each of 9 counties, which implies a lot of additional overseas players.golfaddick said:
Well, if the English bowlers like Wood, Archer & Robinson play county cricket then the batsmen will be facing them. Sprinkle in a few overseas players as well then there is no reason to be facing 40 year old's dibbly dobblers.billysboots said:We aren’t going to develop better batsmen in the county champo until we have the best bowlers in there as well.
Going from facing Stevo and Tim Murtagh at 70 , is no preparation for Starc and the rest of the crew at 90.0 -
Ignoring Covid I don't believe we do. But Archer, Bairstow, Buttler, Woakes, Curran (S), Curran (T), Moeen, Billings, Jordan, Malan, Livingstone, Morgan, Stokes and Roy were all originally contracted to the IPL - that's 14 players with at least 10 of them with possibilities of playing Test cricket at the time.MrOneLung said:Do we play more tests per year than other teams ?Probably skewed last couple years by Covid but do we have more series/more tours etc than other countries ?0 -
Guys, once again I am shocked at how many of you are disappointed with the result in the latest Test. As I said before - it really doesn't matter. The Ashes have no more relevance today than a local game between club sides on a village green.
Instead, let's focus again on the tremendous success that was the 100 earlier this year and look forward to the next tournament. Now only just over 8 months away. I'm excited already.
Some really good explanations about the demise of English cricket above. But so many of you are overlooking the obvious failings. The first is that there is no band playing and there's no music - how can our batsmen, sorry batters, get into any rhythm without it?; the language used is all too complex - no wonder our batsmen are confused hearing the term wicket instead of out. Where are the powerplays and time out options? Let's move with the times and get these innovations established in Test cricket. With them, I can assure you our players will put up a lot harder fight.
In the meantime, keep a careful eye on the ECB website. I'm sure it will have priority booking for the 100 games soon.
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Kevin Pieterson was the one who started all this by becoming essentially a mercenary gun for hire and the other players followed suit, "if he's doing it we want to do it"
It might also be showing a lot of us that people, the wider public, dont give a shit about test cricket and want fireworks, overs of bowlers getting walloped for 36 runs, powerplays, bright colours, flashing bails and big screens
I've not been to a county first class game for a looooong time, been to dozens of T20 games in that time, mainly because its easier but also because people who don't really care too much about cricket are happy to come along, see some balls get smashed all over the place, not have to think or concentrate too much and see something happen every delivery.
Isn't as accessible for me to go, probably on my own, and watch Kent warm up the Pakistan test side for a few days and watch Amir swing his left arm and work a batsman over before ripping out their leg stump. So I do get the business side but its still a shame
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How many Sheffield shield games do they play and how many test matches have they played in the same period?Addick Addict said:
You are totally missing the point because you clearly haven't taken on board the fact that Labushagne, Carey, Harris, Head etc etc played BOTH Sheffield Shield AND Club cricket during THIS summer. How many County Championship and Club games did Buttler play last season?kentaddick said:
I’m not sure if you’ve noticed, but the Australians play their cricket during a different period of the Gregorian calendar to us!Addick Addict said:
But the IPL and the ECB won't change the schedule will they? The Hundred and The Blast will be played after the IPL finishes on the 5th June so the CC games have to be played in April and May! And why do Australian batsman like Head and the world's number one best batsman Labushagne play for their State, their Club and a County here? They aren't centrally contracted that's why!kentaddick said:
Right - so by your own admission the problem isn’t central contracts - it’s scheduling of the red ball game. Central contracts have overwhelmingly been seen as a good thing, now apparently as soon as there’s a problem with the team, that’s the real issue - really?Addick Addict said:
I am saying that they have become too reliant on the Central Contract. It's too easy for them to say that they need to rest because they've been playing so much cricket a la Stokes, Buttler, Archer etc etc when a major part of the issue is that they have been away playing franchise cricket. The IPL doesn't finish 'til 3rd June this year - by that time last season Counties had played half of their County Championship matches!!!kentaddick said:
Are you seriously, seriously saying England were better without central contacts? Really?Addick Addict said:
Really? When they don't have to play County cricket? When they were getting paid £700,000 per annum regardless of whether they were in the side or not and players who weren't centrally contracted weren't getting that? When the motivation is to say "thanks for the Central Contract but, by the way, I'm not available to play because I'm knackered having spent three months at the IPL?"kentaddick said:
Strong disagree, central contracts has been a great innovation. This is the first captaincy in which we are not that successful since they’ve been introduced.golfaddick said:Just listening to Harmison on BT Sport.
As we've all said, need to play county cricket. Not The 100. Maybe forget Central contracts & make all players play for their counties again.
The tail is wagging the dog where players are saying they would rather play franchise than Test cricket, And the ECB in their promotion of The Hundred are adding to that.
Counties are financially incentivised by the ECB to have English qualified players in their squads. They are not incentivised to produce Test players, So, as I keep repeating, from grass roots to the very top everything is dominated by white ball cricket. There are no, as far as I am aware, players on red ball only contracts. But loads on white ball only ones. And that will become more and more prevalent as things stand.
Smacks of throwing the baby out with the bath water. Counties don’t want to produce red ball cricketers because they hardly play any red ball cricket. And when they do, their best players are away at the ipl. Re format the county championship, have it played throughout the year (like they used to) and work from there. If you take away central contracts then you can kiss producing the next Jimmy Anderson goodbye - do you really think he’d have lasted as long as he has done without a central contract?
What should happen, in my opinion, is that there should be a much bigger amount paid to those who make each squad with an appearance fee paid on top of that.If you stop centrally contracted players from playing in the ipl, you’re going to have the same problem as the last time the ecb tried doing the same thing - players won’t sign their central contracts. You’ll have another KP situation.It’s bizarre that in order for us to stop repeating the same mistakes as the last 4 years we have to repeat the same mistakes as the previous 20 according to some.You’re completely missing my point in that they have a completely different schedule.0 -
I agree, but this is the decision the ecb has to make, either the blast or the hundred. Or they let test cricket die. Getting rid of central contracts is like moving and nailing in chairs through the hull of the titanic. The problem, as I keep saying - is the scheduling of red ball cricketAddick Addict said:
I don't disagree with this but it won't happen. The Hundred is the ECB and Harrison's bonus payer and The Blast is the County's profit maker. Those that know anything about cricket knew that The Hundred would cause these issues - the ECB should have spent the money re-vamping The Blast but then they wouldn't have made the sort of money they are looking to dokentaddick said:
And getting rid of central contracts isn’t absolutely barking mad?Addick Addict said:
So you think that the ECB will schedule The Hundred and The Blast in April and May? Cloud cuckoo land that is!kentaddick said:And how do we make it easier for those players to play championship matches… maybe don’t schedule the majority of them during the ipl?
It also doesn't address the fact that our white ball players do not play straight. KP was brought up in South Africa. And Buttler is no KP when it comes to Test cricketGet rid of the hundred or the blast - there’s no other way around it. This is the Pandora’s box the ecb opened when creating the hundred and they’ll have to deal with it.The alternative you’re saying is continue the way it is - which is clearly not working. Those that will play in the ipl will still play in the ipl. Red ball players will still be picked 2-3 months after they’d have last played and woefully short of form. This time, Bowlers will retire early from international cricket because of the workload - so we’ll actually be worse off!
now what’s your solution?0 -
Watching SA. Their number 8, a fast bowler on debut, has a better technique than most of our batsmen0
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(he gets out literally just as I post that, of course)6
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So what you're saying is we need to start nicking Saffers again?Leuth said:Watching SA. Their number 8, a fast bowler on debut, has a better technique than most of our batsmen0 -
kentaddick said:
How many Sheffield shield games do they play and how many test matches have they played in the same period?Addick Addict said:
You are totally missing the point because you clearly haven't taken on board the fact that Labushagne, Carey, Harris, Head etc etc played BOTH Sheffield Shield AND Club cricket during THIS summer. How many County Championship and Club games did Buttler play last season?kentaddick said:
I’m not sure if you’ve noticed, but the Australians play their cricket during a different period of the Gregorian calendar to us!Addick Addict said:
But the IPL and the ECB won't change the schedule will they? The Hundred and The Blast will be played after the IPL finishes on the 5th June so the CC games have to be played in April and May! And why do Australian batsman like Head and the world's number one best batsman Labushagne play for their State, their Club and a County here? They aren't centrally contracted that's why!kentaddick said:
Right - so by your own admission the problem isn’t central contracts - it’s scheduling of the red ball game. Central contracts have overwhelmingly been seen as a good thing, now apparently as soon as there’s a problem with the team, that’s the real issue - really?Addick Addict said:
I am saying that they have become too reliant on the Central Contract. It's too easy for them to say that they need to rest because they've been playing so much cricket a la Stokes, Buttler, Archer etc etc when a major part of the issue is that they have been away playing franchise cricket. The IPL doesn't finish 'til 3rd June this year - by that time last season Counties had played half of their County Championship matches!!!kentaddick said:
Are you seriously, seriously saying England were better without central contacts? Really?Addick Addict said:
Really? When they don't have to play County cricket? When they were getting paid £700,000 per annum regardless of whether they were in the side or not and players who weren't centrally contracted weren't getting that? When the motivation is to say "thanks for the Central Contract but, by the way, I'm not available to play because I'm knackered having spent three months at the IPL?"kentaddick said:
Strong disagree, central contracts has been a great innovation. This is the first captaincy in which we are not that successful since they’ve been introduced.golfaddick said:Just listening to Harmison on BT Sport.
As we've all said, need to play county cricket. Not The 100. Maybe forget Central contracts & make all players play for their counties again.
The tail is wagging the dog where players are saying they would rather play franchise than Test cricket, And the ECB in their promotion of The Hundred are adding to that.
Counties are financially incentivised by the ECB to have English qualified players in their squads. They are not incentivised to produce Test players, So, as I keep repeating, from grass roots to the very top everything is dominated by white ball cricket. There are no, as far as I am aware, players on red ball only contracts. But loads on white ball only ones. And that will become more and more prevalent as things stand.
Smacks of throwing the baby out with the bath water. Counties don’t want to produce red ball cricketers because they hardly play any red ball cricket. And when they do, their best players are away at the ipl. Re format the county championship, have it played throughout the year (like they used to) and work from there. If you take away central contracts then you can kiss producing the next Jimmy Anderson goodbye - do you really think he’d have lasted as long as he has done without a central contract?
What should happen, in my opinion, is that there should be a much bigger amount paid to those who make each squad with an appearance fee paid on top of that.If you stop centrally contracted players from playing in the ipl, you’re going to have the same problem as the last time the ecb tried doing the same thing - players won’t sign their central contracts. You’ll have another KP situation.It’s bizarre that in order for us to stop repeating the same mistakes as the last 4 years we have to repeat the same mistakes as the previous 20 according to some.You’re completely missing my point in that they have a completely different schedule.
So far this season Alex Carey, for example and as Buttler's direct counterpart in that he bats at 7 and keeps, has played (in order of duration of games):
3 Tests
5 Sheffield Shield
1 Two Day Club
4 State One Day
2 Club T20
So that's 15 matches of which nine are all day games - and we are half way through their season. Buttler didn't play a Test match 'til August last season (so nothing in the first half of our season) and played just three games in the whole of the season that were non limited over matches - all Tests. And he hasn't played a County Championship game for over three years.
Just where is Buttler practising his red ball batting and his keeping for whole days at a time? Any keeper worth his salt will say that keeping at the top level is as much about concentration for 90-100 overs a day as basic technique. And you have to train your body and mind to do that. You can't just rock up and do it. We moan about the lack of practice games before the Ashes and yet no one questions why Buttler is being picked for Tests when the only time he actually sees a red ball is in Tests!!!
So there is no comparison whatsoever between the two so far as preparation is concerned for Test cricket. But Buttler still gets a central contract.8 - Sponsored links:
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County cricket would be more popular if games were spread around the counties,Kent used to play Surrey every year at The Rectory field,always very popular,massive crowds for all 3 days(they played the other odd game there as well.)They also played at Dartford.Do Yorks play many games away from Headingly,Warwicks from Edgbaston etc.People would be more inclined to go if the games were a rarer occasion .it would also get players playing on different wickets.At the moment county cricket is a lame duck,players not interested as they can earn big bucks playing one day events in front of large crowds rather than one man and his dog at a county 4 day game.6
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Unless we were thrashing the Aussies 3-0 then we'd be proclaiming ourselves world champions.Fortune 82nd Minute said:Guys, once again I am shocked at how many of you are disappointed with the result in the latest Test. As I said before - it really doesn't matter. The Ashes have no more relevance today than a local game between club sides on a village green.
Instead, let's focus again on the tremendous success that was the 100 earlier this year and look forward to the next tournament. Now only just over 8 months away. I'm excited already.
Some really good explanations about the demise of English cricket above. But so many of you are overlooking the obvious failings. The first is that there is no band playing and there's no music - how can our batsmen, sorry batters, get into any rhythm without it?; the language used is all too complex - no wonder our batsmen are confused hearing the term wicket instead of out. Where are the powerplays and time out options? Let's move with the times and get these innovations established in Test cricket. With them, I can assure you our players will put up a lot harder fight.
In the meantime, keep a careful eye on the ECB website. I'm sure it will have priority booking for the 100 games soon.2 -
More from Chris Nash:"The schedule, incentivising counties financially to play young players, reducing overseas players, less kolpak players, not using the kookaburra ball, wrapping players in cotton wool when not needed are all reasons county cricket has gone down in quality."
"It’s like investing all your reserves on a luxurious and expensive penthouse when the foundations are knackered and need some good investment. #cricket"0 -
That was absolutely pathetic.
So many things are wrong with English cricket, picking one thing hardly seems adequate. My bug bear is that we have players in the biggest games of their lives who haven't played any red ball cricket for months. Crawley, Bairstow, Stokes. So many players so unprepared.
We squandered opportunities to play our best Test team against New Zealand to try people out for Australia. Surely if we want to win in Australia, our players need experience of it - and not just every four years. I'd rather they played Sheffield Shield than home Tests if Oz really is the priority.1 -
years ago (probably mid 1990s), I went to a cricket discussion forum .. the panel was Gooch, Atherton, Benaud , Micky Stewart and the chairman was the late great Times cricket correspondent Alan Lee .. the issues were not dissimilar to today's problems, the future of County cricket and the growing incursion of the one day game
Benaud opined that the problem was 'the draw', you play 3/4 days cricket and then there is no definite result .. you have wicketkeepers bowling donkey drops for batsmen to hit for six to encourage contrived declarations and still get no proper result. Very few want to pay to watch this rubbish. Every game needs a definite result.
He was right of course, and all the panel concurred that the beauty of the one day/short form was that it was exciting and there is always a result. Nothing has changed, the county championship is increasingly [played between sub standard cricketers while all the real talent is earning the big bucks playing the one day formats or 'resting' as they are on central England test contracts.
There is no obvious answer to this situation.
Incidentally, the forum was a very interesting and enjoyable evening's entertainment and was sold right out
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Right, but the solution to that is not to get rid of central contracts, it’s to make sure jos Buttler can play championship matches - at the moment he’s playing ipl or the hundred when he’s not playing for England in any format.Addick Addict said:kentaddick said:
How many Sheffield shield games do they play and how many test matches have they played in the same period?Addick Addict said:
You are totally missing the point because you clearly haven't taken on board the fact that Labushagne, Carey, Harris, Head etc etc played BOTH Sheffield Shield AND Club cricket during THIS summer. How many County Championship and Club games did Buttler play last season?kentaddick said:
I’m not sure if you’ve noticed, but the Australians play their cricket during a different period of the Gregorian calendar to us!Addick Addict said:
But the IPL and the ECB won't change the schedule will they? The Hundred and The Blast will be played after the IPL finishes on the 5th June so the CC games have to be played in April and May! And why do Australian batsman like Head and the world's number one best batsman Labushagne play for their State, their Club and a County here? They aren't centrally contracted that's why!kentaddick said:
Right - so by your own admission the problem isn’t central contracts - it’s scheduling of the red ball game. Central contracts have overwhelmingly been seen as a good thing, now apparently as soon as there’s a problem with the team, that’s the real issue - really?Addick Addict said:
I am saying that they have become too reliant on the Central Contract. It's too easy for them to say that they need to rest because they've been playing so much cricket a la Stokes, Buttler, Archer etc etc when a major part of the issue is that they have been away playing franchise cricket. The IPL doesn't finish 'til 3rd June this year - by that time last season Counties had played half of their County Championship matches!!!kentaddick said:
Are you seriously, seriously saying England were better without central contacts? Really?Addick Addict said:
Really? When they don't have to play County cricket? When they were getting paid £700,000 per annum regardless of whether they were in the side or not and players who weren't centrally contracted weren't getting that? When the motivation is to say "thanks for the Central Contract but, by the way, I'm not available to play because I'm knackered having spent three months at the IPL?"kentaddick said:
Strong disagree, central contracts has been a great innovation. This is the first captaincy in which we are not that successful since they’ve been introduced.golfaddick said:Just listening to Harmison on BT Sport.
As we've all said, need to play county cricket. Not The 100. Maybe forget Central contracts & make all players play for their counties again.
The tail is wagging the dog where players are saying they would rather play franchise than Test cricket, And the ECB in their promotion of The Hundred are adding to that.
Counties are financially incentivised by the ECB to have English qualified players in their squads. They are not incentivised to produce Test players, So, as I keep repeating, from grass roots to the very top everything is dominated by white ball cricket. There are no, as far as I am aware, players on red ball only contracts. But loads on white ball only ones. And that will become more and more prevalent as things stand.
Smacks of throwing the baby out with the bath water. Counties don’t want to produce red ball cricketers because they hardly play any red ball cricket. And when they do, their best players are away at the ipl. Re format the county championship, have it played throughout the year (like they used to) and work from there. If you take away central contracts then you can kiss producing the next Jimmy Anderson goodbye - do you really think he’d have lasted as long as he has done without a central contract?
What should happen, in my opinion, is that there should be a much bigger amount paid to those who make each squad with an appearance fee paid on top of that.If you stop centrally contracted players from playing in the ipl, you’re going to have the same problem as the last time the ecb tried doing the same thing - players won’t sign their central contracts. You’ll have another KP situation.It’s bizarre that in order for us to stop repeating the same mistakes as the last 4 years we have to repeat the same mistakes as the previous 20 according to some.You’re completely missing my point in that they have a completely different schedule.
So far this season Alex Carey, for example and as Buttler's direct counterpart in that he bats at 7 and keeps, has played (in order of duration of games):
3 Tests
5 Sheffield Shield
1 Two Day Club
4 State One Day
2 Club T20
So that's 15 matches of which nine are all day games - and we are half way through their season. Buttler didn't play a Test match 'til August last season (so nothing in the first half of our season) and played just three games in the whole of the season that were non limited over matches - all Tests. And he hasn't played a County Championship game for over three years.
Just where is Buttler practising his red ball batting and his keeping for whole days at a time? Any keeper worth his salt will say that keeping at the top level is as much about concentration for 90-100 overs a day as basic technique. And you have to train your body and mind to do that. You can't just rock up and do it. We moan about the lack of practice games before the Ashes and yet no one questions why Buttler is being picked for Tests when the only time he actually sees a red ball is in Tests!!!
So there is no comparison whatsoever between the two so far as preparation is concerned for Test cricket. But Buttler still gets a central contract.
so I say again, the problem is with scheduling - not central contracts. If you got rid of central contracts jos Buttler would still not be playing championship games.0 -
I have constantly criticised The Hundred and pointed out how it would affect the longer form of the game. We need rid of it but that isn't going to happen all the time the likes of Harrison are in charge. It is impossible to fit four tournaments into our season. Something has to give. They will not play any of The Hundred and Blast games in April/May either.kentaddick said:
Right, but the solution to that is not to get rid of central contracts, it’s to make sure jos Buttler can play championship matches - at the moment he’s playing ipl or the hundred when he’s not playing for England in any format.Addick Addict said:kentaddick said:
How many Sheffield shield games do they play and how many test matches have they played in the same period?Addick Addict said:
You are totally missing the point because you clearly haven't taken on board the fact that Labushagne, Carey, Harris, Head etc etc played BOTH Sheffield Shield AND Club cricket during THIS summer. How many County Championship and Club games did Buttler play last season?kentaddick said:
I’m not sure if you’ve noticed, but the Australians play their cricket during a different period of the Gregorian calendar to us!Addick Addict said:
But the IPL and the ECB won't change the schedule will they? The Hundred and The Blast will be played after the IPL finishes on the 5th June so the CC games have to be played in April and May! And why do Australian batsman like Head and the world's number one best batsman Labushagne play for their State, their Club and a County here? They aren't centrally contracted that's why!kentaddick said:
Right - so by your own admission the problem isn’t central contracts - it’s scheduling of the red ball game. Central contracts have overwhelmingly been seen as a good thing, now apparently as soon as there’s a problem with the team, that’s the real issue - really?Addick Addict said:
I am saying that they have become too reliant on the Central Contract. It's too easy for them to say that they need to rest because they've been playing so much cricket a la Stokes, Buttler, Archer etc etc when a major part of the issue is that they have been away playing franchise cricket. The IPL doesn't finish 'til 3rd June this year - by that time last season Counties had played half of their County Championship matches!!!kentaddick said:
Are you seriously, seriously saying England were better without central contacts? Really?Addick Addict said:
Really? When they don't have to play County cricket? When they were getting paid £700,000 per annum regardless of whether they were in the side or not and players who weren't centrally contracted weren't getting that? When the motivation is to say "thanks for the Central Contract but, by the way, I'm not available to play because I'm knackered having spent three months at the IPL?"kentaddick said:
Strong disagree, central contracts has been a great innovation. This is the first captaincy in which we are not that successful since they’ve been introduced.golfaddick said:Just listening to Harmison on BT Sport.
As we've all said, need to play county cricket. Not The 100. Maybe forget Central contracts & make all players play for their counties again.
The tail is wagging the dog where players are saying they would rather play franchise than Test cricket, And the ECB in their promotion of The Hundred are adding to that.
Counties are financially incentivised by the ECB to have English qualified players in their squads. They are not incentivised to produce Test players, So, as I keep repeating, from grass roots to the very top everything is dominated by white ball cricket. There are no, as far as I am aware, players on red ball only contracts. But loads on white ball only ones. And that will become more and more prevalent as things stand.
Smacks of throwing the baby out with the bath water. Counties don’t want to produce red ball cricketers because they hardly play any red ball cricket. And when they do, their best players are away at the ipl. Re format the county championship, have it played throughout the year (like they used to) and work from there. If you take away central contracts then you can kiss producing the next Jimmy Anderson goodbye - do you really think he’d have lasted as long as he has done without a central contract?
What should happen, in my opinion, is that there should be a much bigger amount paid to those who make each squad with an appearance fee paid on top of that.If you stop centrally contracted players from playing in the ipl, you’re going to have the same problem as the last time the ecb tried doing the same thing - players won’t sign their central contracts. You’ll have another KP situation.It’s bizarre that in order for us to stop repeating the same mistakes as the last 4 years we have to repeat the same mistakes as the previous 20 according to some.You’re completely missing my point in that they have a completely different schedule.
So far this season Alex Carey, for example and as Buttler's direct counterpart in that he bats at 7 and keeps, has played (in order of duration of games):
3 Tests
5 Sheffield Shield
1 Two Day Club
4 State One Day
2 Club T20
So that's 15 matches of which nine are all day games - and we are half way through their season. Buttler didn't play a Test match 'til August last season (so nothing in the first half of our season) and played just three games in the whole of the season that were non limited over matches - all Tests. And he hasn't played a County Championship game for over three years.
Just where is Buttler practising his red ball batting and his keeping for whole days at a time? Any keeper worth his salt will say that keeping at the top level is as much about concentration for 90-100 overs a day as basic technique. And you have to train your body and mind to do that. You can't just rock up and do it. We moan about the lack of practice games before the Ashes and yet no one questions why Buttler is being picked for Tests when the only time he actually sees a red ball is in Tests!!!
So there is no comparison whatsoever between the two so far as preparation is concerned for Test cricket. But Buttler still gets a central contract.
so I say again, the problem is with scheduling - not central contracts. If you got rid of central contracts jos Buttler would still not be playing championship games.
Buttler does not want to play County Championship cricket - there would have been loads of windows of opportunity when he could have done so in the last three years but better for him to let the public think he can't play red ball than prove it. His First Class average is 32.46 fractionally lower than his Test 32.53. It is as Nash posted "wrapping players in cotton wool".
The only reason Buttler plays Test cricket is because of his central contract. He gave every indication that he didn't even want to go to the Ashes and I'm sure he will announce his retirement from Test cricket soon no doubt a la ABV and play even more franchise cricket. The difference is that ABV averaged 50.66
So, apart from getting rid of The Hundred, the ECB should pay England cricketers say £20K every time they are called up for a Test squad, And then another £10k if they are actually selected to play. They then have an incentive to work on their red ball game. If they don't want to do that then so be it. Losing a batsman like Buttler who has averaged 25.21 in the last year in Tests and is a bang average keeper too is hardly a loss is it?
But all of that will not work unless Counties are prepared to do their part and dilute their pre-occupation with producing white ball batsmen to the detriment of those that bat correctly. One County coach recently said that if any 16 year old plus cannot play 360 in white ball and score at more than a run a ball they will be dropped. That then leads to practising bad habits which are replicated when these players revert to red ball. This does not happen in India or Australia. In fact, it's the complete opposite in the latter because coaches go ballistic if you give your wicket up unnecessarily in all day games!
54 Test ducks for us this year - a record. Says it all!!!
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I have a close Australian friend. In previous series we have had a lot of banter via text, phone calls etc. For this series, aside from a Zoom call before Christmas where he got a dig in before the second test hadn't yet been decided, he has been very kind. Even to the extent where we exchanged texts on Monday and he genuinely said it was a shame we had lost 4 wickets after putting in a such a decent bowling and fielding display in bowling the Australians out. I would rather he was going at me all guns blazing because he thought England might give Australia a game, instead of feeling his pity!1
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Is there any reason for leaving out Ronnie Corbett?AddicksAddict said:Not mine, someone on The Guardian over-by-over commentary:
” My England team for the next Test,” says William Vincent.- Laurel
- Hardy
- Morecambe
- Root (c)
- Wise
- Little
- Large
- Marx G (w)
- Robinson
- Wood
- Anderson
“Except, of course, that Robinson, Wood and Anderson will be rested for the more important fifth test and replaced by Marx H, French and Saunders.”1
