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Charlie Kirk (p68 - released by Barrow)
Comments
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You can also add Maddison from the window before of someone we spent ages trying to get, and quickly moved on once through the door.killerandflash said:
And neither were last minute panic buys, plucked out of nowhere. BOTH had been long term targets, that we wanted to buy in the window before the one we actually bought them in. So we had PLENTY of time to analyse their qualities and whether they would fit in to our style of football, and indeed on a personal level to life away from home.shirty5 said:Kirk: 5 months into a 4 year deal and goes out on loan to a club in a division above us. 500,000
Schwartz: 8 months into a 2 and half year deal and goes back to Denmark.That Black box can be thrown in the Thames and the club needs to go back to old school football scouting.
Really worrying that 2 major buys can fail so badly.0 -
Maybe. But there have been reasons ...... it's easy to forget that there is more than football impacting on them.killerandflash said:
And neither were last minute panic buys, plucked out of nowhere. BOTH had been long term targets, that we wanted to buy in the window before the one we actually bought them in. So we had PLENTY of time to analyse their qualities and whether they would fit in to our style of football, and indeed on a personal level to life away from home.shirty5 said:Kirk: 5 months into a 4 year deal and goes out on loan to a club in a division above us. 500,000
Schwartz: 8 months into a 2 and half year deal and goes back to Denmark.That Black box can be thrown in the Thames and the club needs to go back to old school football scouting.
Really worrying that 2 major buys can fail so badly.
Ronnie Schwarz was heavily affected from the separation from his family, at a time of his wife giving birth and the emotional impact on both of them.
Unhappy wife = unhappy player.
As we've heard, Charlie Kirk has had his own personal issues also.
Players living a long way from home and family support sometimes struggle.
Especially in these Covid times.
These are real people with real personal issues.
It's not Football Manager.
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Excellent league one record, was worth a punt imo.JohnnyH2 said:
You can also add Maddison from the window before of someone we spent ages trying to get, and quickly moved on once through the door.killerandflash said:
And neither were last minute panic buys, plucked out of nowhere. BOTH had been long term targets, that we wanted to buy in the window before the one we actually bought them in. So we had PLENTY of time to analyse their qualities and whether they would fit in to our style of football, and indeed on a personal level to life away from home.shirty5 said:Kirk: 5 months into a 4 year deal and goes out on loan to a club in a division above us. 500,000
Schwartz: 8 months into a 2 and half year deal and goes back to Denmark.That Black box can be thrown in the Thames and the club needs to go back to old school football scouting.
Really worrying that 2 major buys can fail so badly.0 -
But that's my point, hence I mentioned the personal aspects of the moves, and whether the player would fit in with the change in location/lifestyleOggy Red said:
Maybe. But there have been reasons ...... it's easy to forget that there is more than football impacting on them.killerandflash said:
And neither were last minute panic buys, plucked out of nowhere. BOTH had been long term targets, that we wanted to buy in the window before the one we actually bought them in. So we had PLENTY of time to analyse their qualities and whether they would fit in to our style of football, and indeed on a personal level to life away from home.shirty5 said:Kirk: 5 months into a 4 year deal and goes out on loan to a club in a division above us. 500,000
Schwartz: 8 months into a 2 and half year deal and goes back to Denmark.That Black box can be thrown in the Thames and the club needs to go back to old school football scouting.
Really worrying that 2 major buys can fail so badly.
Ronnie Schwarz was heavily affected from the separation from his family, at a time of his wife giving birth and the emotional impact on both of them.
Unhappy wife = unhappy player.
As we've heard, Charlie Kirk has had his own personal issues also.
Players living a long way from home and family support sometimes struggle.
Especially in these Covid times.
These are real people with real personal issues.
It's not Football Manager.
It's because it's not football manager that you have to consider such issues, as well as their OPTA stats.0 -
Maddison was a reasonable gamble, especially as it was only a short term deal anyway.Talal said:
Excellent league one record, was worth a punt imo.JohnnyH2 said:
You can also add Maddison from the window before of someone we spent ages trying to get, and quickly moved on once through the door.killerandflash said:
And neither were last minute panic buys, plucked out of nowhere. BOTH had been long term targets, that we wanted to buy in the window before the one we actually bought them in. So we had PLENTY of time to analyse their qualities and whether they would fit in to our style of football, and indeed on a personal level to life away from home.shirty5 said:Kirk: 5 months into a 4 year deal and goes out on loan to a club in a division above us. 500,000
Schwartz: 8 months into a 2 and half year deal and goes back to Denmark.That Black box can be thrown in the Thames and the club needs to go back to old school football scouting.
Really worrying that 2 major buys can fail so badly.1 -
Ah, just re-read your post again; so you did. Sorry.killerandflash said:
But that's my point, hence I mentioned the personal aspects of the moves, and whether the player would fit in with the change in location/lifestyleOggy Red said:
Maybe. But there have been reasons ...... it's easy to forget that there is more than football impacting on them.killerandflash said:
And neither were last minute panic buys, plucked out of nowhere. BOTH had been long term targets, that we wanted to buy in the window before the one we actually bought them in. So we had PLENTY of time to analyse their qualities and whether they would fit in to our style of football, and indeed on a personal level to life away from home.shirty5 said:Kirk: 5 months into a 4 year deal and goes out on loan to a club in a division above us. 500,000
Schwartz: 8 months into a 2 and half year deal and goes back to Denmark.That Black box can be thrown in the Thames and the club needs to go back to old school football scouting.
Really worrying that 2 major buys can fail so badly.
Ronnie Schwarz was heavily affected from the separation from his family, at a time of his wife giving birth and the emotional impact on both of them.
Unhappy wife = unhappy player.
As we've heard, Charlie Kirk has had his own personal issues also.
Players living a long way from home and family support sometimes struggle.
Especially in these Covid times.
These are real people with real personal issues.
It's not Football Manager.
It's because it's not football manager that you have to consider such issues, as well as their OPTA stats.
I do read a lot of posts on here where people seem to completely overlook the issues that some players face.
No one can really foresee there would be major personal issues that couldn't eventually be worked out, not least the players themselves - or surely they wouldn't have wanted to sign. Sure, they would have wanted the opportunity, but not at the price of personal and family unhappiness.
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Shelvey was the same. I remember watching him at wycombe away and he was about ten minutes ahead of his team mates in every thing he did.Redvaliant said:As Critchley says "he's an intelligent footballer", no wonder he didn't fit in with our brain dead squad. I had a similar conversation with my son, as I thought his movement of the ball and into space was very good, unfortunately he was never picked out for a pass. My son concluded he was just shite, will be interesting to see how it turns out.
Not saying Kirk is anywhere near that level but just that perhaps he'll be better surrounded by better players.
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shirty5 said:Kirk: 5 months into a 4 year deal and goes out on loan to a club in a division above us. 500,000
Schwartz: 8 months into a 2 and half year deal and goes back to Denmark.That Black box can be thrown in the Thames and the club needs to go back to old school football scouting.
Yep we gotta get up gotta get up gotta get up and that poxy black box doesn't seem to be helping towards that.0 -
Jacko can’t burn his bridges in case Kirk does come back.Cafc43v3r said:
If the aim is he comes back a better player why have they got an option to buy?ForeverAddickted said:2 -
Unfortunately as decent a player as I think Charlie Kirk is this move happened at the worst possible time for him. He is still a very young age to lose a parent and move to London on top of that when I have no doubt at a time when he needed his family and they needed him. To then be backed up by a wanker like Gunter playing behind him and expected to hit the ground running in a truly bad Adkins-led side.
He was excellent for Crewe against us last season along with Pickering who I think went to Blackburn. I really hope he gets a go in that very decent Blackpool team and reignites his career and happiness outside of the game.7 -
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Agree with you but to gain some perspective on player transaction, sometimes it is just not a fit despite good intentions. It happens at all levels. Look at Spurs forking out 55 Million for Ndombele and spending all this time trying to get rid of him.Airman Brown said:I would think the club would be pleased to offset some of the fee. Not sure they are in a strong position to make a profit.1 -
And before the usual snipers attack - No, I'm not comparing Kirk with Ndombele. Just that circumstances that didn't work out for Club or player.1
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Have to say when I discovered we had signed the WRONG Charlie Kirk (Google "American Christian Conservative" ) losing this inept snowflake to Blackpool is actually some fairly good news.
JJ has shown in this window the principal areas that need addressing and definitely improved the squad with the additions and departures. If we can get that octogenarian Defoe in too, then we will have a really good chance of making midtable come May.0 -
Schwartz presumably was uncomfortable about coming over to England away from his partner/wife, during the Covid pandemic, when we originally wanted to sign him (Sep 2020) hence the deal collapsing at the last minute, and I doubt much had changed in January 2021 when he did sign, so it was a bad decision on both sides really.Oggy Red said:
Ah, just re-read your post again; so you did. Sorry.killerandflash said:
But that's my point, hence I mentioned the personal aspects of the moves, and whether the player would fit in with the change in location/lifestyleOggy Red said:
Maybe. But there have been reasons ...... it's easy to forget that there is more than football impacting on them.killerandflash said:
And neither were last minute panic buys, plucked out of nowhere. BOTH had been long term targets, that we wanted to buy in the window before the one we actually bought them in. So we had PLENTY of time to analyse their qualities and whether they would fit in to our style of football, and indeed on a personal level to life away from home.shirty5 said:Kirk: 5 months into a 4 year deal and goes out on loan to a club in a division above us. 500,000
Schwartz: 8 months into a 2 and half year deal and goes back to Denmark.That Black box can be thrown in the Thames and the club needs to go back to old school football scouting.
Really worrying that 2 major buys can fail so badly.
Ronnie Schwarz was heavily affected from the separation from his family, at a time of his wife giving birth and the emotional impact on both of them.
Unhappy wife = unhappy player.
As we've heard, Charlie Kirk has had his own personal issues also.
Players living a long way from home and family support sometimes struggle.
Especially in these Covid times.
These are real people with real personal issues.
It's not Football Manager.
It's because it's not football manager that you have to consider such issues, as well as their OPTA stats.
I do read a lot of posts on here where people seem to completely overlook the issues that some players face.
No one can really foresee there would be major personal issues that couldn't eventually be worked out, not least the players themselves - or surely they wouldn't have wanted to sign. Sure, they would have wanted the opportunity, but not at the price of personal and family unhappiness.0 -
If you look at our most successful transfers over the last few years, there's an overepresentation of young hungry players from London based non league teams. It seems odd that we're not concentrating our limited resources on those kind of players given how spectacularly the Aribo and Lookman punts paid off (or should have paid off).3
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Do we know that those kinds of signings are not happening? Both of those players you named were recruited to the academy before they broke through, rather than being signed straight to the first team like say Bradley Pritchard was, so I would hope they are still happeningSantaClaus said:If you look at our most successful transfers over the last few years, there's an overepresentation of young hungry players from London based non league teams. It seems odd that we're not concentrating our limited resources on those kind of players given how spectacularly the Aribo and Lookman punts paid off (or should have paid off).
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You could include Mason Burstow, signed from Maidstone Utd?SantaClaus said:If you look at our most successful transfers over the last few years, there's an overepresentation of young hungry players from London based non league teams. It seems odd that we're not concentrating our limited resources on those kind of players given how spectacularly the Aribo and Lookman punts paid off (or should have paid off).
And there was a lad from Dulwich Hamlet, Ricky Carvalho from Barnet or somewhere that were here on trial, not counting the winger we lost out on a year ago who went to Huddersfield instead.
Just remembered: Lucas Ness from Met Police.
We definitely are stil interested andl looking at young players from non-League.
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The "black box" approach of scouting is here to stay and the most successful clubs will be the ones who utilize their data most effectively. Brentford are the classic example of a club using this approach and making a massive success of it.shirty5 said:Kirk: 5 months into a 4 year deal and goes out on loan to a club in a division above us. 500,000
Schwartz: 8 months into a 2 and half year deal and goes back to Denmark.That Black box can be thrown in the Thames and the club needs to go back to old school football scouting.
At the end of the day, having a pop at a collection of data (which is all a black box really is) is silly. It's about getting the right people in position who have the qualifications to effectively sort through that data to make the right recommendations. Brentford are doing it well because they have some of the best people in the business doing this kind of work for them. Another example: Liverpool's return to the top of the Premier League & Europe is in large part to the work their analysts are doing with the data they have access to.
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We’ve made mistakes and need some big changes but that’s not a reason to scrap everything and start again only using old methods. Which successful clubs identify all their signings purely through old school scouting?shirty5 said:Kirk: 5 months into a 4 year deal and goes out on loan to a club in a division above us. 500,000
Schwartz: 8 months into a 2 and half year deal and goes back to Denmark.That Black box can be thrown in the Thames and the club needs to go back to old school football scouting.
Schwartz was a target when TS took over, that was before the black box was in place.
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Kirk probably joined us at the worst time for him and equally for us. I have seen him play well for Crewe quite a few times but maybe what we asked him to do wasn't what he was asked to do for them. Maybe with losing his dad, it was harder to settle so far from home. We probably won't know why it has been such an abject failure but it is possible he will do well at Blackpool.2
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Seems to have gotten lots of positive and lovely comments from the Charlton squad on his latest Instagram post. Nice to see.
Will be interesting to note if he is in the Blackpool squad for tomorrow.2 -
On the bench away at FulhamCallumcafc said:Seems to have gotten lots of positive and lovely comments from the Charlton squad on his latest Instagram post. Nice to see.
Will be interesting to note if he is in the Blackpool squad for tomorrow.1 -
I didn't realise Burstow came from another academy. I wonder who spotted him?Oggy Red said:
You could include Mason Burstow, signed from Maidstone Utd?SantaClaus said:If you look at our most successful transfers over the last few years, there's an overepresentation of young hungry players from London based non league teams. It seems odd that we're not concentrating our limited resources on those kind of players given how spectacularly the Aribo and Lookman punts paid off (or should have paid off).
And there was a lad from Dulwich Hamlet, Ricky Carvalho from Barnet or somewhere that were here on trial, not counting the winger we lost out on a year ago who went to Huddersfield instead.
Just remembered: Lucas Ness from Met Police.
We definitely are stil interested andl looking at young players from non-League.0 -
We should have used the £500k wasted on Kirk to buy Dempsey from Gillingham rather than offering a derisory amount as reported.If we get anything back on Kirk it will be a bonus.0
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Bye
#already forgotten1 -
www.viprow.net (use an adblock) has the game on today
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Game has been stopped due to a medical emergency in the stands, spotted by a Fulham player0
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Strange a Championship team want someone who can't get in our team1
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Didnt get on the pitch this afternoon with Blackpool drawing 1-1 @ Fulham
Blackpool only made the one substitute in the end anyway, and that came on 80mins
Probably helped that there was the massive delay to the game after 12mins0 -
As soon as Blackpool pegged them back, you knew without even watching the game that they’d be happy with a point. It was unlikely they made any attacking subs while they still had points in the bag.1
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