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CHARLTON’S ACADEMY RANKED EIGHTH IN ENGLAND

clive
clive Posts: 19,799
in General Charlton
Charlton have been placed eighth in the more recent three-season ranking of all 92 Premier League and EFL clubs. During the longer term 12-year period the club ranked first among all 72 EFL clubs and ninth overall among all 92 Premier League and EFL clubs.
https://www.charltonafc.com/news/charltons-academy-ranked-eighth-england
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Comments

  • ForeverAddickted
    ForeverAddickted Posts: 96,188
    This is what I meant recently when I questioned why Category status appears to be given based more on infrastructure, instead of actual progress within the individual players themselves.
  • Davo55
    Davo55 Posts: 7,859
    Shouldn't this be more of a factor when the powers that be decide who should get Cat 1 status? It could be argued that the results Steve Avory and his team achieve are as if not more important than the infrastructure, number of coaches etc.
  • MrLargo
    MrLargo Posts: 8,015
    ForeverAddickted said:
    This is what I meant recently when I questioned why Category status appears to be given based more on infrastructure, instead of actual progress within the individual players themselves.
    Absolutely. Surely an academy should be judged on the standard of the coaching and the results it yields, rather than the spec of the changing rooms.
  • shirty5
    shirty5 Posts: 19,425
    The FA have decided we are not ready for CAT 1 football. The club need to take onboard where improvements are required to reach that criteria and see where they stand in May 2023
  • ForeverAddickted
    ForeverAddickted Posts: 96,188
    Just took a look through the Valiant 500 until 2010 to see if I could find the 72-names

    Must have missed a couple as only have 67.

    Equally wonder what the requirements for those numbers are, seeing you could include Oztumer | Haynes | Pope etc.

    Guess as per the article I'm equally missing those who have potentially never played for us, but have gone to other League clubs, and made appearances there... e.g. Jordan Ibe?


  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,498
    Davo55 said:
    Shouldn't this be more of a factor when the powers that be decide who should get Cat 1 status? It could be argued that the results Steve Avory and his team achieve are as if not more important than the infrastructure, number of coaches etc.
    I hope and expect TS to be making that exact point to the relevant authorities 
  • Athletico Charlton
    Athletico Charlton Posts: 14,425
    Davo55 said:
    Shouldn't this be more of a factor when the powers that be decide who should get Cat 1 status? It could be argued that the results Steve Avory and his team achieve are as if not more important than the infrastructure, number of coaches etc.
    Because.... Ged Roddy.
  • Covered_End_Lad
    Covered_End_Lad Posts: 5,757
    The fact that is and Crewe are not cat 1 is all that is wrong with modern football. There are some championship clubs with cat 1 who have produced miles less than us.
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,823
    It shows that there is a flaw in which CAT 1 is calculated. It can only show that when stats prove it. The people responsible for CAT 1 should ask themselves why but they won't. 
  • follett
    follett Posts: 1,093
    Anyone know where to find the full rankings?


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  • AllHailTheHen
    AllHailTheHen Posts: 3,103
    Also interesting to know where those clubs with Cat 1 status appear in the lists.
  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 21,092
    Covered_End_Lad said:
    The fact that is and Crewe are not cat 1 is all that is wrong with modern football. There are some championship clubs with cat 1 who have produced miles less than us.
    I give you Stoke City for one!
  • sam3110
    sam3110 Posts: 21,615
    The stat I found interesting was the fact we rank first I'm the last 12 years amongst every current EFL club, and also at 9 years, 3rd in the last 3 years, but over 6 years we rank 19th! We must have really hit a dry patch in players at that point, or was everyone else suddenly utilising their youth teams a lot more?
  • Airman Brown
    Airman Brown Posts: 15,792
    edited August 2022
    Unless the appearances are weighted by the level at which they take place, I’m not sure how meaningful that stat is. Clearly an academy producing PL players is outperforming one where the same number of players are playing in L2 or the EFL Trophy. 

    If a L2 club fielded only academy players because they had no money to pay anyone else, would they be judged the most successful academy? Does Matt Carter (signed from West Ham) equal Joe Gomez, because he made a late sub appearance in the trophy?
  • ForeverAddickted
    ForeverAddickted Posts: 96,188
    edited August 2022
    Airman Brown said:
    Clearly an academy producing PL players is outperforming one where the same number of players are playing in L2 or the EFL Trophy.
    Well Man Utd have just sold Scott Devine to Swindon, so that player counts as a stat in this manner, the exact same way that our sale of George Lapslie to Mansfield would have done... I'd be surprised if a side like Man Utd etc. who field completely U21 teams in the EFL Trophy, have their figures increased by the competition too
  • Airman Brown
    Airman Brown Posts: 15,792
    ForeverAddickted said:
    Airman Brown said:
    Unless the appearances are weighted by the level at which they take place, I’m not sure how meaningful that stat is. Clearly an academy producing PL players is outperforming one where the same number of players are playing in L2 or the EFL Trophy. 

    If a L2 club fielded only academy players because they had no money to pay anyone else, would they be judged the most successful academy? Does Matt Carter (signed from West Ham) equal Joe Gomez, because he made a late sub appearance in the trophy?
    Well Man Utd have just sold Scott Devine to Swindon, so that player counts as a stat in this manner, the exact same way that our sale of George Lapslie to Mansfield would have done...
    I can see that but unless you have some measure of the quality of player beyond crossing the line as a sub at any level I can’t see any value in the metric. It’s like arguing Charlton are better than, say, Watford because we won more games last season.
  • clive
    clive Posts: 19,799

     20/21 rankings & how they were calculated can be found below https://trainingground.guru/articles/manchester-united-top-2020/21-academy-productivity-rankings



  • Airman Brown
    Airman Brown Posts: 15,792
    clive said:

     20/21 rankings & how they were calculated can be found below https://trainingground.guru/articles/manchester-united-top-2020/21-academy-productivity-rankings



    Makes sense. Thanks.
  • usetobunkin
    usetobunkin Posts: 2,275
    edited August 2022
    ForeverAddickted said:
    Just took a look through the Valiant 500 until 2010 to see if I could find the 72-names

    Must have missed a couple as only have 67.

    Equally wonder what the requirements for those numbers are, seeing you could include Oztumer | Haynes | Pope etc.

    Guess as per the article I'm equally missing those who have potentially never played for us, but have gone to other League clubs, and made appearances there... e.g. Jordan Ibe?


    McGinty? Woodyard? Arter? Pritchard?
  • ForeverAddickted
    ForeverAddickted Posts: 96,188
    edited August 2022
    usetobunkin said:
    ForeverAddickted said:
    Just took a look through the Valiant 500 until 2010 to see if I could find the 72-names

    Must have missed a couple as only have 67.

    Equally wonder what the requirements for those numbers are, seeing you could include Oztumer | Haynes | Pope etc.

    Guess as per the article I'm equally missing those who have potentially never played for us, but have gone to other League clubs, and made appearances there... e.g. Jordan Ibe?


    McGinty? Woodyard? Arter? Pritchard?
    I certainly forgot about Danny Green in there as well - But all three good shouts, as all appeared in the League after 2010

    Who is Pritchard?

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  • usetobunkin
    usetobunkin Posts: 2,275
    Bradley Pritchard, think he was in the Academy, before going to Loughborough Uni, and being picked back up from there, but I not positive.
  • Scoham
    Scoham Posts: 37,763
    Pritchard wasn’t in our academy, he moved between various non-league clubs before we signed him from Hayes & Yeading.
  • Paddy Powell
    Paddy Powell Posts: 2,860
    ForeverAddickted said:
    Just took a look through the Valiant 500 until 2010 to see if I could find the 72-names

    Must have missed a couple as only have 67.

    Equally wonder what the requirements for those numbers are, seeing you could include Oztumer | Haynes | Pope etc.

    Guess as per the article I'm equally missing those who have potentially never played for us, but have gone to other League clubs, and made appearances there... e.g. Jordan Ibe?


    Dimitar Mitov is one of the missing players.
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    Our development system is amazing all things considered. Certainly a feature of Charlton Athletic to be proud of.
  • arthur
    arthur Posts: 246
    Would be interesting to know what percentage of players in each academy make it to the first team and how many are discarded. The big clubs have good numbers but I imagine they might have 3 or 4 times the number of youth team players.
  • paulg1947
    paulg1947 Posts: 224
    ForeverAddickted said:
    Just took a look through the Valiant 500 until 2010 to see if I could find the 72-names

    Must have missed a couple as only have 67.

    Equally wonder what the requirements for those numbers are, seeing you could include Oztumer | Haynes | Pope etc.

    Guess as per the article I'm equally missing those who have potentially never played for us, but have gone to other League clubs, and made appearances there... e.g. Jordan Ibe?


    A Note that may interest some- Carl Jenkinson played for Melbourne City in the last  Australian ,A League season, (under the City group umbrella) Just signed for Newcastle Jets. Said he had a lot of time for the Academy
  • Athletico Charlton
    Athletico Charlton Posts: 14,425
    Does the likes of Kasey Palmer and Jeremy Sarmiento and Largie Ramazani count as players through the youth who now have footy careers albeit having never played for us?
  • paulg1947
    paulg1947 Posts: 224
    Why doesn't this turn out, of really good players exite me,Because we sell em on to more ambitoius clubs,Our business approach has been apalling over the last 6 --7 decades in this respect.In fact i think it was the 60s when Charlton copped the tag 'The Stock Exchange'.Quite frankly the lunatics have been running the asylum at Charlton for years.Our third tier catagory surely confirms this. I know the 'sell on' aspect brings in a small revenue flow .But a star player can help pack out the terraces, when he or she becomes hero status Especially for the kids. For an example What would have been the draw, of the likes of Georgie Best at Manure ? Just for one
  • Lincsaddick
    Lincsaddick Posts: 32,493
    great news and congratulations to all concerned
  • SantaClaus
    SantaClaus Posts: 7,722
    edited August 2022
    I wonder how much of the academy's success is down to the quality of our coaching and how much is down to an unusually deep pool of young talent in our catchment area?

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