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Holden sacked?! (Ed. Yes - Confirmed)
Comments
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Your not wrong about things not adding up but more like outside of the dressing room. The comment from a Dean Holden interview a while back, when asked about incoming transfers 'You need to speak to Andy Scott about that'. He slightly covered it afterwards by saying we, but it stood out at the time something was wrong between him and Scott a while back.CafcWest said:Having slept on it...lots of thing don't add up. The timing especially. I think someting happened during the week after the Port Vale game - maybe an argument/disagreement/blame in the dressing room - don't know - but I'm sure he knew he was out the door on Saturday. The bizarre team selection, players out of position, switching Isted for AMB, no pre-match interview, even his outfit was different. Definately someting was going on. The alledged text "firing" on Sunday was probably just a confirmation.5 -
Why do you have to try to belittle people.golfaddick said:
Still could be true.balham red said:
Sounds much more plausible. Where did the 500k come from? I'm assuming a Methven brief.Covered_End_Lad said:The compensation due to Holden, Shimell and Senda totalled less than 150k.
I mean, it could be their truth. Not the actual truth mind, but that doesn't matter I'm told, just as long as the person being told it believes it to be the truth.
Someone is told something, they pass it on, it could be true it may not be.
I think most people on here appreciate the snippets of information they're given.
You've actually contradicted yourself with your last line because most people probably look at the snippets given in that way.
I don't know you personally (I'm glad to say), but if your imiserable outlook that comes across in your posts on CL is your general outlook on life then I feel sorry for you.5 -
Another load of toilet from the other lot. Possibly copping 500k, but disguising over a 3 year period as his contract.Rothko said:Where has this Holden getting 500k stuff come from? Aren’t managers contracts set up with shortish pay off times compared to the length of the contract?
'Only' on 3k a week.2 -
Months.RedChaser said:Thought I read somewhere it was 24.0 -
Holden was let down by our transfer dealings, but even so that squad should be on 8/9 points not 3.
The players were all over the shop, playing a formation that didn't suit, playing wing backs when we didn't have any and 2 up front when we only really had 1.
We also had injuries to Leaburn, Fraser and Camara, but let's not forget that Holden almost certainly worsened Fraser's injury by continuing to play him injured.11 -
If he’s been paid our £500k he must be on a big Sam style contract where it’s all shared around0
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I doubt its 500k, but if it is, thats only 3.5k per week, which isnt total out of the realms of possibility2
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AgreeCAFCsayer said:I doubt its 500k, but if it is, thats only 3.5k per week, which isnt total out of the realms of possibility
If for the three of them they only got £150k as suggested elsewhere that's nothing in football and would suggest there was a clause in their contracts. 3 men 150k for 2.5 years would work out as an average of £20k each per annum. No way were any of their salaries that low.0 -
Trust me, Holden was on a decent salary.. close 200K a year
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But what severance terms?DubaiCAFC said:Trust me, Holden was on a decent salary.. close 200K a yearHe might only be on 3 months notice for example.1 - Sponsored links:
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I don't know thatvalleynick66 said:
But what severance terms?DubaiCAFC said:Trust me, Holden was on a decent salary.. close 200K a yearHe might only be on 3 months notice for example.1 -
DubaiCAFC said:Trust me, Holden was on a decent salary.. close 200K a year
tbf, thats still just under 4k a week, not totally out of reality.2 -
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Leaving Assimwe on when we could see from the stands that his legs had gone did it for me. Some have said there was no cover, but Ness was on the bench and has played right back.Covered End said:Holden was let down by our transfer dealings, but even so that squad should be on 8/9 points not 3.
The players were all over the shop, playing a formation that didn't suit, playing wing backs when we didn't have any and 2 up front when we only really had 1.
We also had injuries to Leaburn, Fraser and Camara, but let's not forget that Holden almost certainly worsened Fraser's injury by continuing to play him injured.He gave away the winner, but hard to blame him, hence the excellent response from the fans who clapped him off at the end.Those sorts of mistakes can be physically and mentally damaging for a young player.1 -
GOF means Gain of Function.1
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Yes that would be interesting to know, are the being paid by the club or GFP paying them.JohnnyH2 said:
Would also be interesting to know how much the likes of Rodwell, Scott, Warwick etc are being paid if that is what they were paying DHDubaiCAFC said:Trust me, Holden was on a decent salary.. close 200K a year1 -
Can’t imagine they won’t be on the club’s payroll. GFP only have one club and that’s us.DubaiCAFC said:
Yes that would be interesting to know, are the being paid by the club or GFP paying them.JohnnyH2 said:
Would also be interesting to know how much the likes of Rodwell, Scott, Warwick etc are being paid if that is what they were paying DHDubaiCAFC said:Trust me, Holden was on a decent salary.. close 200K a year1 - Sponsored links:
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Gain-of-function research (GOFR) refers to the serial passaging of microorganisms to increase their transmissibility, virulence, immunogenicity, and host tropism by applying selective pressure to a culture.
GOF is performed to understand how a pathogen adapts to environmental pressures, thereby allowing disease control measures to be better planned, as well as potential vaccines and therapies to be explored. Gene editing technologies such as clustered, regularly interspaced short palindromic repeats (CRISPR) may be utilized in combination with selective serial passaging to investigate the role of specific genes on protein expression and ultimate organism function.
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Unless in the unlikely event we do some good business as the transfer deadline ticks down, I can't see how it made sense to sack Holden this week. It is very hard to support this club with all the mistakes it makes. It sometimes feels like it does it on purpose. It seems it doesn't matter who the owner is, they all seem as clueless as the next.4
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As with most manager /back room contracts - you continue to get paid in monthly instalments, but only until you take any kind of job.So a departing manager has the choice - looK for a new job or do what Curbs did at WHU.1
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Which would have made him one of the lowest paid managers in league one I would imagine.DubaiCAFC said:Trust me, Holden was on a decent salary.. close 200K a year0 -
Great post.PragueAddick said:
I'm sorry that i used pompous phraseology. Better to just have said "I don't agree" but you usually persuade me on a lot of things, so I wanted to express my surprise at your stance on this.PeanutsMolloy said:
I'm not unaware of the timing of his appointment or that Methven's management crew were installed until the deal appeared to fall through. Having re-read it, nothing I said seems to me to imply otherwise.PragueAddick said:
With great respect, Mr Peanuts, your first para. reads as if Methven and co. appointed him only in the close season and had no idea how -apparently - "tactically naive" he is. But that's not the case. Methven was in and around the club from December- when Holden and the others came in- through to February, and had a half-season to monitor results and take soundings. If he's really as bad as you paint him, you'd think Charlie- "I know football" - Methven would have spotted it, and have had a replacement lined up to take over as soon as the deal was done; so that at least said replacement could get some of his own choices in, and certainly influence the pre-season.PeanutsMolloy said:
I don't dispute he improved our performances after Garner-ball (it was a relatively obvious idea to "get the ball forward quicker", as DH described it) but, as I've said earlier, tactical naivety alone in the last 3 games (including first-rate impression of a stuffed dummy on the touchline at crucial moments and leaving clearly-knackered youngsters on for too long) and shockingly poor set-piece coaching in both boxes, is enough for me to be in no doubt it's right to replace DH now.PragueAddick said:
- Dean Holden was apparently recommended to TS by the current SMT. Effectively their choice, 8 months ago.
- He inherited a crap squad that was in chaos. Remember the Stockport cup humiliation?
- Admittedly the delay to the takeover completion didn't help to make a smooth well-planned pre-season.
- He has ONE fit senior striker. ONE!
- As of a week ago he had 10 -TEN - injured players.
- He has had to play two debutant 18 year olds in every game, for the simple reason that there were no better choices.
- He was told that he cannot bring more players in if he keeps picking the trash (Kirk, DJ , McG). Yes, I have a source for that. None of the trash was on the bench on Saturday.
So yeah, the "solution" to a poor start is to sack a manager you gave a three year contract to in March with a week to go of the window and irons supposedly in the fire, especially a striker.
As I've been saying for nigh on 30 years since I got involved in management recruitment: any idiot can sack someone. The difficult bit is getting in someone "better", especially if you keep being the same idiot each year or less.
"Someone challenge me on that?" © Charles Harry Finlayson Methven
He could have a fully-fit £30m squad and still potentially (probably IMO) not have the ability as a manager to get us promotion.
You're right he was SMT's choice but it's not unreasonable to assume they had to work within TS's budget and have his sign off. TS would have had to (and for a while did) live with the choice if the deal fell through.
So we shouldn't assume DH was ever their #1 choice or defines their budget for a new appointment.
We'll find out soon.
Given that, you haven't persuaded me at all that the timing of this isn't symptomatic of panic and breathtaking incompetence. Or possibly, as @sm above says, symptomatic of hedge-fund management mentality.
DH did well enough at for the remainder of last season though when looking like we might still have a run at the play offs, we still fell flat and finished poorly. Did you watch the game at Portman Road in April?
Persuading you of anything wasn't my purpose. All I was saying is that your assertion, that DH was effectively their choice, should be qualified by the fact that TS is hardly likely to have given them a blank cheque for the appointment. We don't know for sure but he was not necessarily ever their #1 choice.
Sure I endured last season's 6-0 at Ipswich. By macabre coincidence it came almost exactly year after I endured the 4-0 drubbing by the same team, and frankly I struggle to say the 6-0 was worse. In both cases I saw the performance of a club in chaos, under-resourced wherever you looked and with players just wanting the season to be over. You'll recall the 4-0 was probably the game that did for Jacko. Jacko of course moved on to AFCW. Midway through his first season they weren't doing great, and based on the social media noise I wondered if perhaps Jacko isn't quite up to it, and if it had after allbeen correct to let him go (I deplored it at the time). But an AFCW mate assured me that he'd been dealt a poor hand and thought he'll come good. Sure enough the AFCW board stuck with him. Now they are 5th, unbeaten and with Cov's league cup scalp too. Now, I won't over-labour this point but the make-up of AFCW's board is about as far as you can get from the gang Methven has stitched together - and the AFCW board do have pressure, that stadium has been relatively costly.
People here criticised Jacko's tactical naivety/rigidity. Apparently this season he has become more flexible. Perhaps from that we deduce that all but the most gifted rookie managers need time to learn from their mistakes and become more self-confident over time when it comes to formation and in-game tactical change. Holden and Jackson had the same amount of experience as the no1, buck-stops-here coach when each took up their respective eight month tenure at Charlton - zero. That brings me back to my original point. Charlie Methven knew that about Holden yet still recommended him. You might be right that he was not no1 choice (as you say, the next appointment will tell us), but Methven should still have moved heaven and earth to ensure that Holden at least had a half-decent fit squad with which to start the season. He manifestly failed to do so. And yet people come out with pap like "He doesn't know his best eleven" How could he when up to ten of the choices aren't fully available, and the second of the "2" in the 3-5-2 strategy does not currently exist? What a nightmare for a rookie manager with a new ownership of American hedgie types.
If the current board were all completely new, I might have been more 'persuaded' to wait and see whom they bring in before jumping to conclusions. But they are not. The key player, regardless of shareholding, is Charlie Methven. And if I recall correctly, you are no more confident in his abilities to direct a football club than I am.3 -
just watched the Braziliance you tube video. Good watch despite the score line. Aghast at the second goal. Hector jogged back, Alfie May sprinted and was deeper than Hector when goal went in. What was going through his mind? The players must take responsibility for the crap start we have. Dean seemed to have lost the plot but some of the players should hang their heads in shame3
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Hector is either unfit or had a fall out with Holden or both.mattwils said:just watched the Braziliance you tube video. Good watch despite the score line. Aghast at the second goal. Hector jogged back, Alfie May sprinted and was deeper than Hector when goal went in. What was going through his mind? The players must take responsibility for the crap start we have. Dean seemed to have lost the plot but some of the players should hang their heads in shame6 -
Either way, totally unacceptableCovered End said:
Hector is either unfit or had a fall out with Holden or both.mattwils said:just watched the Braziliance you tube video. Good watch despite the score line. Aghast at the second goal. Hector jogged back, Alfie May sprinted and was deeper than Hector when goal went in. What was going through his mind? The players must take responsibility for the crap start we have. Dean seemed to have lost the plot but some of the players should hang their heads in shame3 -
Thought his comments replying to a fan song were slightly unprofessional…saying he needs to play firstmattwils said:
Either way, totally unacceptableCovered End said:
Hector is either unfit or had a fall out with Holden or both.mattwils said:just watched the Braziliance you tube video. Good watch despite the score line. Aghast at the second goal. Hector jogged back, Alfie May sprinted and was deeper than Hector when goal went in. What was going through his mind? The players must take responsibility for the crap start we have. Dean seemed to have lost the plot but some of the players should hang their heads in shame1
