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Wrestling thread
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Bret gave him the chance to leave and Vince chose the punch. Not the same as production stuff feeling in danger. Strong words from Khan, there's video evidence of the altercation so will he interesting if Punk goes legal.SELR_addicks said:
Didn't CM Punk literally walk out on them too and ended up in a legal case against one of their doctors because of a podcast?Gravesend_Addick said:We don't always agree with him, but this is why this stuff doesn't happen in wwe...Vince/HHH oversees everything.There are too many ego's in the AEW locker room to let them have full control. Khan doesn't have any control & this is the result
To say it has never happened in WWE is just so mindless. Bret Hart literally punched Vince in the face for example.0 -
That's a decent angle. Personally i'm liking the Judgement day angle in WWE with the Balor Priest tension and Dirty Dom with Tree Rhea.SELR_addicks said:
MJF and Adam Cole's team up is more intrguing that anything going on in WWE right now.Friend Or Defoe said:
Prefer one but be subjective, WWE is stale but let's see what multiple man nonsense BCC get up to this week!cafctom said:Friend Or Defoe said:They've lost Cody and Punk but had a great show last week. Meanwhile WWE is smashing records with a harmonious locker room but have a stale product. 🤷🏻♂️Good for WWE! I’m genuinely pleased for them. I want wrestling companies to do well. Both are doing well. I just happen to prefer one to the other.
It wasn’t long ago you were criticising WWE for Drew Macintyre wanting to leave, whilst also being certain FTR were also leaving AEW. Neither happened. And it’s well documented how frustrated WWE talent become with the creative there, so I don’t think we can assume it’s always harmonious. They’ve lost good names themselves.
Maybe the AEW locker room will be far more harmonious without CM Punk. Tony Khan has got rid of him. That’s what you wanted right? I suspect it’s the right decision, but just a real shame it has come to that.
Can't see anyone wanting to leave WWE anytime soon and it seems I was spot on with the Bloodline storyline needing to end soon. Money In The Bank was probably the latest possible time. The uso split isn't particularly interesting.
Won't be surprised if FTR make an exit soon as they're 'team Punk'. Like Keith Lee they will get used poorly whenever they go IMO. All promotions will always have wrestlers complaining about their push, it's not the same as the owner fearing for his life. I can't wait for that footage as it doesn't sound right to me.
What good names have WWE lost recently? Regal is another for the AEW list.
What's interesting angles (on the camera!) are happening at AEW?SELR_addicks said:
I mean keep dragging that bloodline story along I guess. Definitely not stale by this point and completely uninteresting.Friend Or Defoe said:They've lost Cody and Punk but had a great show last week. Meanwhile WWE is smashing records with a harmonious locker room but have a stale product. 🤷🏻♂️
You confuse revenue with quality of product. WWE is the bubblegum pop music that sells millions but is completely uninteresting.
But sure go on pretending losing Regal is a mighty blow for AEW when he was just riding Danielson and Moxley's coat-tails for a few months.
Regal's lost was more of a backstage thing, where he's a bigger assist than his on screen role. It was a big blow when he left WWE.0 -
There is a reason Vince and HHH don't give people like Moxley free reign to do what they want to do.
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Half an hour after everyone feared for their lives.
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Jon Moxley in AEW is far more interesting than the nonsense they had him doing towards the end of his WWE run.
He's a talented performer when used properly. Cuts a very good promo, and can work equally well as a babyface or heel. The fairly compact feud he had with CM Punk last year was really good.
WWE dropped the ball with him massively, as he had just as much potential as Seth Rollins when their singles careers were being forged.
If the hardcore/deathmatch style wrestling isn't for you, then fine, but there are a large contingent of wrestling fans who do enjoy it as part of a variety show. He's never not been over with the crowd.
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Moxley literally ran WWE for months when everyone else was injured. He hated every second and is actually enjoying his position in AEW right now.cafctom said:Jon Moxley in AEW is far more interesting than the nonsense they had him doing towards the end of his WWE run.
He's a talented performer when used properly. Cuts a very good promo, and can work equally well as a babyface or heel. The fairly compact feud he had with CM Punk last year was really good.
WWE dropped the ball with him massively, as he had just as much potential as Seth Rollins when their singles careers were being forged.
If the hardcore/deathmatch style wrestling isn't for you, then fine, but there are a large contingent of wrestling fans who do enjoy it as part of a variety show. He's never not been over with the crowd.
Danielson, Moxley and Claudio in a team together would've been a WWE wet dream but now they hate it because it's not there.3 -
Vince and HHH relied on him heavily, without ever really letting him get anywhere near his potential. The whole 'lunatic fringe' character always felt like it was a watered down version of what it could be. He was never going to be able to be a full-on deathmatch wrestler in WWE, but he absolutely had the talent to be someone more in the mold of a modern era Steve Austin type, or even in the realm of CM Punk. Their product was just far too scripted at the time.
Moxley had 2-3 years in a row where he wrestled more WWE matches than any other singles wrestler on the roster - TV and house shows combined. People can criticize his preferred style of wrestling, but nobody can ever doubt his contribution to a company as a worker.
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It's hated because they do multi man death matches each week . Claudio in a stadium stampede was a massive waste. It's sad seeing him and Danielson in BCC.
I generally consider Ambrose the worst WWE champion not called Great Khali. The photo above sums him up.3 -
You think Claudio is a waste but Moxley has more charisma in one finger than Claudio does in his entire body.Friend Or Defoe said:It's hated because they do multi man death matches each week . Claudio in a stadium stampede was a massive waste. It's sad seeing him and Danielson in BCC.
I generally consider Ambrose the worst WWE champion not called Great Khali. The photo above sums him up.
There's a reason Moxley carried AEW early on, because he has huge untapped potential that WWE squandered because they can't write interesting characters anymore.1 -
Sami's character in the bloodline was pretty interesting.
Talking of Austin, watch Mox's performance on it.1 - Sponsored links:
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The storyline completely controlled by Heyman? The reason it's good because they kept it away from their soap opera writers.Friend Or Defoe said:Sami's character in the bloodline was pretty interesting.
Talking or Austin, watch Mox's performance on it.
If you're judging Moxley on a single podcast then that's on you.1 -
You can argue that the reason why those 3 are so popular is because of their WWE runs, the fans saw them as bigger stars than they were being pushed and really got behind them1
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Moxley and Tyler Black were popular before their WWE runs.sam3110 said:You can argue that the reason why those 3 are so popular is because of their WWE runs, the fans saw them as bigger stars than they were being pushed and really got behind them2 -
How much money did they draw?SELR_addicks said:
Moxley and Tyler Black were popular before their WWE runs.sam3110 said:You can argue that the reason why those 3 are so popular is because of their WWE runs, the fans saw them as bigger stars than they were being pushed and really got behind them
Popular in "mums basement" clearly.
Reminds me of basketball, Jordan made all his money in college...
Seriously how many people watched them?
This is the problem that "the Elite" and TK have, they confused insanely over with a few 100k of people with being insanely popular. Like AEW had to book Osprey for Wembley because he is a draw? The guy didn't sell out at the Doncaster Dome 3 months ago.
This is the problem discussing wrestling online. Do it like it? That's subjective. Is it good? That is also subjective. Does it "draw" or is it actually popular? That's facts.
The WWE/F have never, ever, had the best in ring product, and they have certainly never had the best, in ring, weekly TV show.
I have been to two shows this year, one AEW, one WWE, I paid 3 times the price for the WWE one, it would have added a zero to the end for money in the bank.
I watch much more AEW TV than WWE.
TBH I don't think either are great TBH.
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I'm pretty sure he's on a wind up.Cafc43v3r said:
How much money did they draw?SELR_addicks said:
Moxley and Tyler Black were popular before their WWE runs.sam3110 said:You can argue that the reason why those 3 are so popular is because of their WWE runs, the fans saw them as bigger stars than they were being pushed and really got behind them
Popular in "mums basement" clearly.
Reminds me of basketball, Jordan made all his money in college...
Seriously how many people watched them?
This is the problem that "the Elite" and TK have, they confused insanely over with a few 100k of people with being insanely popular. Like AEW had to book Osprey for Wembley because he is a draw? The guy didn't sell out at the Doncaster Dome 3 months ago.
This is the problem discussing wrestling online. Do it like it? That's subjective. Is it good? That is also subjective. Does it "draw" or is it actually popular? That's facts.
The WWE/F have never, ever, had the best in ring product, and they have certainly never had the best, in ring, weekly TV show.
I have been to two shows this year, one AEW, one WWE, I paid 3 times the price for the WWE one, it would have added a zero to the end for money in the bank.
I watch much more AEW TV than WWE.
TBH I don't think either are great TBH.1 -
If you think Moxley is only popular because of his 'Dean Ambrose' run, then you're on the wind up.Friend Or Defoe said:
I'm pretty sure he's on a wind up.Cafc43v3r said:
How much money did they draw?SELR_addicks said:
Moxley and Tyler Black were popular before their WWE runs.sam3110 said:You can argue that the reason why those 3 are so popular is because of their WWE runs, the fans saw them as bigger stars than they were being pushed and really got behind them
Popular in "mums basement" clearly.
Reminds me of basketball, Jordan made all his money in college...
Seriously how many people watched them?
This is the problem that "the Elite" and TK have, they confused insanely over with a few 100k of people with being insanely popular. Like AEW had to book Osprey for Wembley because he is a draw? The guy didn't sell out at the Doncaster Dome 3 months ago.
This is the problem discussing wrestling online. Do it like it? That's subjective. Is it good? That is also subjective. Does it "draw" or is it actually popular? That's facts.
The WWE/F have never, ever, had the best in ring product, and they have certainly never had the best, in ring, weekly TV show.
I have been to two shows this year, one AEW, one WWE, I paid 3 times the price for the WWE one, it would have added a zero to the end for money in the bank.
I watch much more AEW TV than WWE.
TBH I don't think either are great TBH.
They're over because of their talent. WWE squandered it, despite him being the most over in the company for a time.2 -
This whole post is a wind up.Cafc43v3r said:
How much money did they draw?SELR_addicks said:
Moxley and Tyler Black were popular before their WWE runs.sam3110 said:You can argue that the reason why those 3 are so popular is because of their WWE runs, the fans saw them as bigger stars than they were being pushed and really got behind them
Popular in "mums basement" clearly.
Reminds me of basketball, Jordan made all his money in college...
Seriously how many people watched them?
This is the problem that "the Elite" and TK have, they confused insanely over with a few 100k of people with being insanely popular. Like AEW had to book Osprey for Wembley because he is a draw? The guy didn't sell out at the Doncaster Dome 3 months ago.
This is the problem discussing wrestling online. Do it like it? That's subjective. Is it good? That is also subjective. Does it "draw" or is it actually popular? That's facts.
The WWE/F have never, ever, had the best in ring product, and they have certainly never had the best, in ring, weekly TV show.
I have been to two shows this year, one AEW, one WWE, I paid 3 times the price for the WWE one, it would have added a zero to the end for money in the bank.
I watch much more AEW TV than WWE.
TBH I don't think either are great TBH.
Your Ospreay nonsense basically confirms it. Not a clue.
They book Ospreay because he's the best in-ring wrestler on a planet by some distance this year.2 -
The Ospreay that didn't draw 2k fans in the Doncaster dome this year?SELR_addicks said:
This whole post is a wind up.Cafc43v3r said:
How much money did they draw?SELR_addicks said:
Moxley and Tyler Black were popular before their WWE runs.sam3110 said:You can argue that the reason why those 3 are so popular is because of their WWE runs, the fans saw them as bigger stars than they were being pushed and really got behind them
Popular in "mums basement" clearly.
Reminds me of basketball, Jordan made all his money in college...
Seriously how many people watched them?
This is the problem that "the Elite" and TK have, they confused insanely over with a few 100k of people with being insanely popular. Like AEW had to book Osprey for Wembley because he is a draw? The guy didn't sell out at the Doncaster Dome 3 months ago.
This is the problem discussing wrestling online. Do it like it? That's subjective. Is it good? That is also subjective. Does it "draw" or is it actually popular? That's facts.
The WWE/F have never, ever, had the best in ring product, and they have certainly never had the best, in ring, weekly TV show.
I have been to two shows this year, one AEW, one WWE, I paid 3 times the price for the WWE one, it would have added a zero to the end for money in the bank.
I watch much more AEW TV than WWE.
TBH I don't think either are great TBH.
Your Ospreay nonsense basically confirms it. Not a clue.
They book Ospreay because he's the best in-ring wrestler on a planet by some distance this year.
Not one single person brought a ticket for Wembley because Ospreay was on the card.
Best is subjective. Draw isn't and Ospreay has never drawn a house in the UK or the USA
It's not really hard to distinguish between your favourite and most popular.
Is Ospreay great in ring, absolutely. Is, let's say, Shamus a bigger star?
Christian and Billy Gunn are significantly bigger stars that the Billy Goat will ever be. Sorry.1 -
I assume you apply the same logic with movie, television and music critiques as well yes?Cafc43v3r said:
The Ospreay that didn't draw 2k fans in the Doncaster dome this year?SELR_addicks said:
This whole post is a wind up.Cafc43v3r said:
How much money did they draw?SELR_addicks said:
Moxley and Tyler Black were popular before their WWE runs.sam3110 said:You can argue that the reason why those 3 are so popular is because of their WWE runs, the fans saw them as bigger stars than they were being pushed and really got behind them
Popular in "mums basement" clearly.
Reminds me of basketball, Jordan made all his money in college...
Seriously how many people watched them?
This is the problem that "the Elite" and TK have, they confused insanely over with a few 100k of people with being insanely popular. Like AEW had to book Osprey for Wembley because he is a draw? The guy didn't sell out at the Doncaster Dome 3 months ago.
This is the problem discussing wrestling online. Do it like it? That's subjective. Is it good? That is also subjective. Does it "draw" or is it actually popular? That's facts.
The WWE/F have never, ever, had the best in ring product, and they have certainly never had the best, in ring, weekly TV show.
I have been to two shows this year, one AEW, one WWE, I paid 3 times the price for the WWE one, it would have added a zero to the end for money in the bank.
I watch much more AEW TV than WWE.
TBH I don't think either are great TBH.
Your Ospreay nonsense basically confirms it. Not a clue.
They book Ospreay because he's the best in-ring wrestler on a planet by some distance this year.
Not one single person brought a ticket for Wembley because Ospreay was on the card.
Best is subjective. Draw isn't and Ospreay has never drawn a house in the UK or the USA
It's not really hard to distinguish between your favourite and most popular.
Is Ospreay great in ring, absolutely. Is, let's say, Shamus a bigger star?
Christian and Billy Gunn are significantly bigger stars that the Billy Goat will ever be. Sorry.
The Ospreay that is drawing 5000+ arenas in Japan such as in the G1 Climax.
No one buys WWE tickets for any individual wrestlers. WWE is the draw, not the wrestlers. So according to you, no one over there is worth anything.
Using your logic, Taylor Swift is the greatest musical artist of all time and Eastenders is the greatest television show ever.1 -
Just to add that Osprey isn't a draw in Japan either. Wrestle kingdom was half full this year with him co-maining. Probably a bigger draw over there than in the states or his home country.
I'm looking forward to him v Zack Sabre Jr at Royal Quest 3. 👌🏻1 - Sponsored links:
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That's the whole promotion though not him. They've been struggling since Tanahashi took a backseat.Friend Or Defoe said:Just to add that Osprey isn't a draw in Japan either. Wrestle kingdom was half full this year with him co-maining. Probably a bigger draw over there than in the states or his home country.
I'm looking forward to him v Zack Sabre Jr at Royal Quest 3. 👌🏻
Ospreay's day drew 26,000, the other day drew 5,000.
"Night 1 of the event set an all-time viewership record for the NJPW World streaming service."
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I've always wondered why wrestling debate always goes back to the whole "what did they/it draw?"
The only guess I have on it is that a lot of wrestling opinion online is driven by American commentators, dirtsheets, podcasts, social media etc. We certainly don't talk in those terms about other forms of entertainment, or even other "sports", at least nowhere near to the same extent.
Will Ospreay might have only had a few thousand in Doncaster. Does that make his performance any less entertaining? Is it only 'good' if everyone else is watching it too?
If so, then I had might as well throw away my Charlton season ticket until we get into the Champions League! Its not relevant otherwise
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Yeah, in carny promotions wrestling in village halls and warehouses maybe.SELR_addicks said:
Moxley and Tyler Black were popular before their WWE runs.sam3110 said:You can argue that the reason why those 3 are so popular is because of their WWE runs, the fans saw them as bigger stars than they were being pushed and really got behind them
AEW has been successful because they've piggybacked on the stardom of ex WWE wrestlers and indy darlings, offering a more edgy product to the PG watered down WWE.
If Moxley went straight from CZW and FIP to AEW, he'd be nowhere near as big a star as he is now.
If Castagnoli wasn't in the WWE for 10 years and was voted most underrated wrestler 4 times in a row because of the fact he always shone but was never pushed to the very top, he also wouldn't be the star he is now.
Danielson was very similar, the difference was WWE actually went along with it and pulled the trigger on his push with the YES Movement, and he was more of a star before joining the WWE.
It's also ok to enjoy both sides of the fence instead of being entrenched on one side or the other.2 -
Yeah it's why MJF isn't the star of the company alongside Darby Allin and Hangman Page. Oh wait.sam3110 said:
Yeah, in carny promotions wrestling in village halls and warehouses maybe.SELR_addicks said:
Moxley and Tyler Black were popular before their WWE runs.sam3110 said:You can argue that the reason why those 3 are so popular is because of their WWE runs, the fans saw them as bigger stars than they were being pushed and really got behind them
AEW has been successful because they've piggybacked on the stardom of ex WWE wrestlers and indy darlings, offering a more edgy product to the PG watered down WWE.
If Moxley went straight from CZW and FIP to AEW, he'd be nowhere near as big a star as he is now.
If Castagnoli wasn't in the WWE for 10 years and was voted most underrated wrestler 4 times in a row because of the fact he always shone but was never pushed to the very top, he also wouldn't be the star he is now.
Danielson was very similar, the difference was WWE actually went along with it and pulled the trigger on his push with the YES Movement, and he was more of a star before joining the WWE.
It's also ok to enjoy both sides of the fence instead of being entrenched on one side or the other.0 -
Mate George Dobson is drawing 5000+ crowds by your logic...SELR_addicks said:
I assume you apply the same logic with movie, television and music critiques as well yes?Cafc43v3r said:
The Ospreay that didn't draw 2k fans in the Doncaster dome this year?SELR_addicks said:
This whole post is a wind up.Cafc43v3r said:
How much money did they draw?SELR_addicks said:
Moxley and Tyler Black were popular before their WWE runs.sam3110 said:You can argue that the reason why those 3 are so popular is because of their WWE runs, the fans saw them as bigger stars than they were being pushed and really got behind them
Popular in "mums basement" clearly.
Reminds me of basketball, Jordan made all his money in college...
Seriously how many people watched them?
This is the problem that "the Elite" and TK have, they confused insanely over with a few 100k of people with being insanely popular. Like AEW had to book Osprey for Wembley because he is a draw? The guy didn't sell out at the Doncaster Dome 3 months ago.
This is the problem discussing wrestling online. Do it like it? That's subjective. Is it good? That is also subjective. Does it "draw" or is it actually popular? That's facts.
The WWE/F have never, ever, had the best in ring product, and they have certainly never had the best, in ring, weekly TV show.
I have been to two shows this year, one AEW, one WWE, I paid 3 times the price for the WWE one, it would have added a zero to the end for money in the bank.
I watch much more AEW TV than WWE.
TBH I don't think either are great TBH.
Your Ospreay nonsense basically confirms it. Not a clue.
They book Ospreay because he's the best in-ring wrestler on a planet by some distance this year.
Not one single person brought a ticket for Wembley because Ospreay was on the card.
Best is subjective. Draw isn't and Ospreay has never drawn a house in the UK or the USA
It's not really hard to distinguish between your favourite and most popular.
Is Ospreay great in ring, absolutely. Is, let's say, Shamus a bigger star?
Christian and Billy Gunn are significantly bigger stars that the Billy Goat will ever be. Sorry.
The Ospreay that is drawing 5000+ arenas in Japan such as in the G1 Climax.
No one buys WWE tickets for any individual wrestlers. WWE is the draw, not the wrestlers. So according to you, no one over there is worth anything.
Using your logic, Taylor Swift is the greatest musical artist of all time and Eastenders is the greatest television show ever.
CM Punk sold 15k+ tickets on a rumour he might turn up, or did they all get a ticket cos Danny Garcia was in the main event?
I never said WWE was better, or the best, BTW so your last paragraph just proves your on a wind up and logic is a word you don't even understand.1 -
You know the first day was the main card stadium show and the next day (weeks later) was a NOAH v NJPW show in an arena? The end of which set up Muto v Naito at the Tokyo Dome drawing 32k?SELR_addicks said:
That's the whole promotion though not him. They've been struggling since Tanahashi took a backseat.Friend Or Defoe said:Just to add that Osprey isn't a draw in Japan either. Wrestle kingdom was half full this year with him co-maining. Probably a bigger draw over there than in the states or his home country.
I'm looking forward to him v Zack Sabre Jr at Royal Quest 3. 👌🏻
Ospreay's day drew 26,000, the other day drew 5,000.
"Night 1 of the event set an all-time viewership record for the NJPW World streaming service."
Not blaming the 26k on Osprey, just pointing out if he was a draw there the crowd would have been way higher.0 -
I do know, but Okada, Takahashi and all the other NJPW stars were on that 5k show.Friend Or Defoe said:
You know the first day was the main card stadium show and the next day (weeks later) was a NOAH v NJPW show in an arena? The end of which set up Muto v Naito at the Tokyo Dome drawing 32k?SELR_addicks said:
That's the whole promotion though not him. They've been struggling since Tanahashi took a backseat.Friend Or Defoe said:Just to add that Osprey isn't a draw in Japan either. Wrestle kingdom was half full this year with him co-maining. Probably a bigger draw over there than in the states or his home country.
I'm looking forward to him v Zack Sabre Jr at Royal Quest 3. 👌🏻
Ospreay's day drew 26,000, the other day drew 5,000.
"Night 1 of the event set an all-time viewership record for the NJPW World streaming service."
Not blaming the 26k on Osprey, just pointing out if he was a draw there the crowd would have been way higher.
You even said yourself Ospreay wasn't the headliner so I don't really get your argument.0 -
"The Star" according to who?
For the casual fan buying tickets to All In, are they buying tickets because they see the name Darby Allin on the card?
Of the 9 world title reigns they've had on AEW so far, the belt has been on ex WWE wrestlers for 2/3s of them.
Again I enjoy both promotions and want both to thrive, but AEW is popular because of the success, but also because of the mishandling of talent, of WWE, not because of some 60kg emo kid wearing jorts and tights riding a skateboard to the ring2 -
MJF is the biggest star in the company right now by some distance. Then probably Moxley and Omega.sam3110 said:"The Star" according to who?
For the casual fan buying tickets to All In, are they buying tickets because they see the name Darby Allin on the card?
Of the 9 world title reigns they've had on AEW so far, the belt has been on ex WWE wrestlers for 2/3s of them.
Again I enjoy both promotions and want both to thrive, but AEW is popular because of the success, but also because of the mishandling of talent, of WWE, not because of some 60kg emo kid wearing jorts and tights riding a skateboard to the ring
"AEW has been successful because they've piggybacked on the stardom of ex WWE wrestlers and indy darlings" - So i gave you 3 examples that proved you wrong.
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Why is MJF a star? He is a generational talent but he is only a "star" because Bryan, Regal and Punk all put him over as one.SELR_addicks said:
MJF is the biggest star in the company right now by some distance. Then probably Moxley and Omega.sam3110 said:"The Star" according to who?
For the casual fan buying tickets to All In, are they buying tickets because they see the name Darby Allin on the card?
Of the 9 world title reigns they've had on AEW so far, the belt has been on ex WWE wrestlers for 2/3s of them.
Again I enjoy both promotions and want both to thrive, but AEW is popular because of the success, but also because of the mishandling of talent, of WWE, not because of some 60kg emo kid wearing jorts and tights riding a skateboard to the ring
Moxley isn't as big a star as he was 3 years ago because we wants to bleed and do angles with the jobbers mum and her mini van.
If Omega put actually making money and being a star over playing with his friends he would be a massive star.
If Omega had had proper programs with Bryan and Punk he could be the massive star he thinks he is, but he would rather have "fun" with his friends.
There are two reasons he has never been in the WWE.0
