POST MATCH THREAD : Charlton Athletic Vs Fleetwood Town : Saturday 2nd September 2023

Saturday's win barely papers over any cracks in Charlton's currently parlous condition
First of all Fleetwood are dreadful, rightly next to bottom of the division, they made Orient look like world beaters
3 of Charlton's starting back 4 were variously hopeless to utter shite - Stockley left unattended for his goal is unforgivable by Hector and Jones
Hector stank the place up throughout
Jones doesn't seem to read the game well nor has any pace
Edun wasn't completely awful defending one on one but gave the ball away relentlessly in ever more ludicrous fashion
Nathan Asiimwe acquits himself remarkably for one so inexperienced especially playing alongside and ever changing cast list of donkeys.  Playing almost every minute of every game so far risks breaking him. Hopefully the newly arrived Watson is up to sharing the burden.
Dobbo worked his socks off in his evermore Canute like struggle against the onrushing tide of opposition players.
The same risk is run with Anderson in midfield as with Asiimwe at the back.  He's clearly decent but having so much on such young shoulders is unsustainable.
Both Campbells did OK for the most part. Newby Chem got some harsh treatment off the dirty northern no hopers but will have a fortnight to recover and continue his integration.  Doesn't look like he's gonna help much with Dobbo's defensive workload, not really his bag is it.
CBT was his mercurial usual self which against dross like Fleetwood was plenty, his hit rate with the final ball still needs work
Alfie May was clearly furious for most of the 1st half with the utterly shit service he was getting and the amount of energy he had to waste.

Fleetwood did themselves no favours parking the bus in the (vain) hope of a point, it gave Charlton a lengthy training session of attack vs defense and the pressure eventually told.

Terry Taylor when he came on offered precisely nothing and once again concertedly hid behind a blue shirt whenever possible.
Terrell Thomas was a major upgrade on the calamitous Edun but that's no recommendation.
Miles Leaburn's introduction was transformational, way more than the Fylde cloggers could cope with.

Few managers in League 1 are going to be too concerned with Charlton's 'threat' yet.  We're far too porous and weak at the back.

Here's hoping the deadline day signings are all upgrades on what we've got - that bar is low but so are my expectations -  thus far Alfie May and Chem Campbell look better than their predecessors, not so any of the others.

With a blank weekend then Tuesday's (not even a paint pot) trophy match has to feature all the 1st teamers bar Dobbo, May, Asiimwe, and Anderson who don't need the practice and Chem Campbell who got clobbered.  All the others need as much match practice as possible and some very stern words from JP about what a shambles they've been.

JamesSeed said:

Airman Brown said:

JamesSeed said:

addick19 said:

Airman Brown said:

southamptonaddick said:

InspectorSands said:

by popular request, here's Kevin Nolan's match report: https://greenwichwire.co.uk/2023/09/03/kevin-nolans-valley-view-charlton-athletic-2-1-fleetwood-town/

A good report.
No way there were 119 away supporters though. 

I would guess some of them didn’t make it through the tunnel. I reckon there were 6,000-7,000 people in the ground.

You're probably not far wide there; official attendance put at just over 11,00 - but judging by the number of people in the Fans Bar and on the food outlets at half time, we can all take that with a large pinch of salt.

11,000 is the number of season tickets plus tickets sold. (As everybody knows of course - sorry). 

It’s always a higher number than those attending. 

Were it not for the rail strike and the traffic chaos the bums on seats number would have been probably 8 or 9 thousand. I think some wanted to support Pearce, so I thought the crowd wouldn’t be too bad. 

But long term it’s wins that you need to rekindle fans interest. 

Sold in that number also equals given away, which is a significant difference. I highly doubt the club “sold” 3,000 match tickets for Fleetwood. 

I doubt if there were 9,000 home fans for either Brizzle or Port Vale, so after five straight defeats it’s unlikely there would have been more than 7,500 for this fixture even without the transport issues. 

It is pretty extraordinary that there were 13,000 home fans for Orient, followed by these three turnouts. And the weather was a positive on Saturday.

Five straight defeats, yes, but there’d be a small uplift with Pearce being given his day in the spotlight perhaps. 

Do other clubs give away tickets, and do they add them to their totals, or is it just a Charlton thing?
There was a decent crowd for Orient, just a shame that it all went downhill from there. 

Everyone counts comps. I think we give away more than most and they are less likely to be used. The main reason for the large discrepancy in our official v actual is that very large numbers of ST holders don’t attend. I doubt if 5,000 were there for Fleetwood - this is about price (they are worth buying even if you don’t plan to attend all the games) and concessions (kids who come occasionally) as well as the football being rubbish. People will say “summer holidays” but it’s fairly consistent over the season that there are very large numbers missing.

Airman Brown said:

JamesSeed said:

Airman Brown said:

JamesSeed said:

addick19 said:

Airman Brown said:

southamptonaddick said:

InspectorSands said:

by popular request, here's Kevin Nolan's match report: https://greenwichwire.co.uk/2023/09/03/kevin-nolans-valley-view-charlton-athletic-2-1-fleetwood-town/

A good report.
No way there were 119 away supporters though. 

I would guess some of them didn’t make it through the tunnel. I reckon there were 6,000-7,000 people in the ground.

You're probably not far wide there; official attendance put at just over 11,00 - but judging by the number of people in the Fans Bar and on the food outlets at half time, we can all take that with a large pinch of salt.

11,000 is the number of season tickets plus tickets sold. (As everybody knows of course - sorry). 

It’s always a higher number than those attending. 

Were it not for the rail strike and the traffic chaos the bums on seats number would have been probably 8 or 9 thousand. I think some wanted to support Pearce, so I thought the crowd wouldn’t be too bad. 

But long term it’s wins that you need to rekindle fans interest. 

Sold in that number also equals given away, which is a significant difference. I highly doubt the club “sold” 3,000 match tickets for Fleetwood. 

I doubt if there were 9,000 home fans for either Brizzle or Port Vale, so after five straight defeats it’s unlikely there would have been more than 7,500 for this fixture even without the transport issues. 

It is pretty extraordinary that there were 13,000 home fans for Orient, followed by these three turnouts. And the weather was a positive on Saturday.

Five straight defeats, yes, but there’d be a small uplift with Pearce being given his day in the spotlight perhaps. 

Do other clubs give away tickets, and do they add them to their totals, or is it just a Charlton thing?
There was a decent crowd for Orient, just a shame that it all went downhill from there. 

Everyone counts comps. I think we give away more than most and they are less likely to be used. The main reason for the large discrepancy in our official v actual is that very large numbers of ST holders don’t attend. I doubt if 5,000 were there for Fleetwood - this is about price (they are worth buying even if you don’t plan to attend all the games) and concessions (kids who come occasionally) as well as the football being rubbish. People will say “summer holidays” but it’s fairly consistent over the season that there are very large numbers missing.

Thanks. I bought a season ticket for my youngest three years in a row, and he probably averaged five games a season - Just in the hope that he’d become a lifelong fan. Quite often I’d upgrade the ticket so a mate could come, when he wasn't attending. 

JamesSeed said:

Braziliance said:

raytreacy69 said:

Traffic problems and train strike will no doubt have lowered the crowd

I think in most cases if people could find a way, they would. 

Ultimately it boils down to the simple fact that we aren't very good at football and don't play in the premier League. Not many clubs could sustain good numbers in this league and most of the ones that could would never find themselves down here. 

I can tell you for instance that I know 6 people in my quite small circle of friends that were attending games in the championship but would never attend league 1 fixtures, all Arsenal fans. 

I can also say I've met a fairly large amount of football fans in my life that have said they had season tickets to watch premier league footie and have an interest in Charlton but support ManU, Chelsea, Arsenal etc. 

The gates aren't good cause the football isn't good, we are a mid to decent tier sized club in the English footballing pyramid. If that game was a premier League fixture the gate is nowhere near that low

Sunderland (and there are one or two others). Their gates don’t dip much whatever league they’re in, whatever the results it seems. Got to admire them for that. 

Perhaps in London there are more alternatives and distractions available to fans who are losing their mojo. 

That is actually an excellent point in the second paragraph, no disrespect to Sunderland as an area but there isn't much to do around there so football is their complete escape sometimes and with it being a one city club of course..

Derby are another that have done well despite the drop, same as Pompey. 

If we were flying the gates would increase but as people have said time and time again, we have about a core of about 10-12k and then it all depends on form and who we are playing, it's sad but it's true. 

As time goes on that could get worse as well due to the increase in prem money and interest as the years go by. We are miles behind a club like Brentford now and that would have been a bizarre concept just 10-15 years ago 

cantersaddick said:

JamesSeed said:

Braziliance said:

raytreacy69 said:

Traffic problems and train strike will no doubt have lowered the crowd

I think in most cases if people could find a way, they would. 

Ultimately it boils down to the simple fact that we aren't very good at football and don't play in the premier League. Not many clubs could sustain good numbers in this league and most of the ones that could would never find themselves down here. 

I can tell you for instance that I know 6 people in my quite small circle of friends that were attending games in the championship but would never attend league 1 fixtures, all Arsenal fans. 

I can also say I've met a fairly large amount of football fans in my life that have said they had season tickets to watch premier league footie and have an interest in Charlton but support ManU, Chelsea, Arsenal etc. 

The gates aren't good cause the football isn't good, we are a mid to decent tier sized club in the English footballing pyramid. If that game was a premier League fixture the gate is nowhere near that low

Sunderland (and there are one or two others). Their gates don’t dip much whatever league they’re in, whatever the results it seems. Got to admire them for that. 

Perhaps in London there are more alternatives and distractions available to fans who are losing their mojo. 

Fuck all else to do in Sunderland though

Do people actually attend the Royal Opera House, take in a West end show, go and watch different football or take a sight seeing tour of London or do they sit on their sofa scratching their bollocks and watching Soccer Saturday?

As most of our fans don't actually live in Charlton, or London, is their actually more to do in Sevenoaks, Gravesend or Ashford than there is in Sunderland?

Cafc43v3r said:

cantersaddick said:

JamesSeed said:

Braziliance said:

raytreacy69 said:

Traffic problems and train strike will no doubt have lowered the crowd

I think in most cases if people could find a way, they would. 

Ultimately it boils down to the simple fact that we aren't very good at football and don't play in the premier League. Not many clubs could sustain good numbers in this league and most of the ones that could would never find themselves down here. 

I can tell you for instance that I know 6 people in my quite small circle of friends that were attending games in the championship but would never attend league 1 fixtures, all Arsenal fans. 

I can also say I've met a fairly large amount of football fans in my life that have said they had season tickets to watch premier league footie and have an interest in Charlton but support ManU, Chelsea, Arsenal etc. 

The gates aren't good cause the football isn't good, we are a mid to decent tier sized club in the English footballing pyramid. If that game was a premier League fixture the gate is nowhere near that low

Sunderland (and there are one or two others). Their gates don’t dip much whatever league they’re in, whatever the results it seems. Got to admire them for that. 

Perhaps in London there are more alternatives and distractions available to fans who are losing their mojo. 

Fuck all else to do in Sunderland though

Do people actually attend the Royal Opera House, take in a West end show, go and watch different football or take a sight seeing tour of London or do they sit on their sofa scratching their bollocks and watching Soccer Saturday?

As most of our fans don't actually live in Charlton, or London, is there actually more to do in Sevenoaks, Gravesend or Ashford than there is in Sunderland?

Fair point. But I still think there are arguably more options for you if you live in Kent. Although the Sunderland area has a great coastline!

Cafc43v3r said:

cantersaddick said:

JamesSeed said:

Braziliance said:

raytreacy69 said:

Traffic problems and train strike will no doubt have lowered the crowd

I think in most cases if people could find a way, they would. 

Ultimately it boils down to the simple fact that we aren't very good at football and don't play in the premier League. Not many clubs could sustain good numbers in this league and most of the ones that could would never find themselves down here. 

I can tell you for instance that I know 6 people in my quite small circle of friends that were attending games in the championship but would never attend league 1 fixtures, all Arsenal fans. 

I can also say I've met a fairly large amount of football fans in my life that have said they had season tickets to watch premier league footie and have an interest in Charlton but support ManU, Chelsea, Arsenal etc. 

The gates aren't good cause the football isn't good, we are a mid to decent tier sized club in the English footballing pyramid. If that game was a premier League fixture the gate is nowhere near that low

Sunderland (and there are one or two others). Their gates don’t dip much whatever league they’re in, whatever the results it seems. Got to admire them for that. 

Perhaps in London there are more alternatives and distractions available to fans who are losing their mojo. 

Fuck all else to do in Sunderland though

Do people actually attend the Royal Opera House, take in a West end show, go and watch different football or take a sight seeing tour of London or do they sit on their sofa scratching their bollocks and watching Soccer Saturday?

As most of our fans don't actually live in Charlton, or London, is their actually more to do in Sevenoaks, Gravesend or Ashford than there is in Sunderland?

Wider options in these areas.

killerandflash said:

JamesSeed said:

Cafc43v3r said:

cantersaddick said:

JamesSeed said:

Braziliance said:

raytreacy69 said:

Traffic problems and train strike will no doubt have lowered the crowd

I think in most cases if people could find a way, they would. 

Ultimately it boils down to the simple fact that we aren't very good at football and don't play in the premier League. Not many clubs could sustain good numbers in this league and most of the ones that could would never find themselves down here. 

I can tell you for instance that I know 6 people in my quite small circle of friends that were attending games in the championship but would never attend league 1 fixtures, all Arsenal fans. 

I can also say I've met a fairly large amount of football fans in my life that have said they had season tickets to watch premier league footie and have an interest in Charlton but support ManU, Chelsea, Arsenal etc. 

The gates aren't good cause the football isn't good, we are a mid to decent tier sized club in the English footballing pyramid. If that game was a premier League fixture the gate is nowhere near that low

Sunderland (and there are one or two others). Their gates don’t dip much whatever league they’re in, whatever the results it seems. Got to admire them for that. 

Perhaps in London there are more alternatives and distractions available to fans who are losing their mojo. 

Fuck all else to do in Sunderland though

Do people actually attend the Royal Opera House, take in a West end show, go and watch different football or take a sight seeing tour of London or do they sit on their sofa scratching their bollocks and watching Soccer Saturday?

As most of our fans don't actually live in Charlton, or London, is there actually more to do in Sevenoaks, Gravesend or Ashford than there is in Sunderland?

Fair point. But I still think there are arguably more options for you if you live in Kent. Although the Sunderland area has a great coastline!

And there's stuff to do in Newcastle as well

It's not really very far from Leeds, York and Edinburgh either.

Cafc43v3r said:

killerandflash said:

JamesSeed said:

Cafc43v3r said:

cantersaddick said:

JamesSeed said:

Braziliance said:

raytreacy69 said:

Traffic problems and train strike will no doubt have lowered the crowd

I think in most cases if people could find a way, they would. 

Ultimately it boils down to the simple fact that we aren't very good at football and don't play in the premier League. Not many clubs could sustain good numbers in this league and most of the ones that could would never find themselves down here. 

I can tell you for instance that I know 6 people in my quite small circle of friends that were attending games in the championship but would never attend league 1 fixtures, all Arsenal fans. 

I can also say I've met a fairly large amount of football fans in my life that have said they had season tickets to watch premier league footie and have an interest in Charlton but support ManU, Chelsea, Arsenal etc. 

The gates aren't good cause the football isn't good, we are a mid to decent tier sized club in the English footballing pyramid. If that game was a premier League fixture the gate is nowhere near that low

Sunderland (and there are one or two others). Their gates don’t dip much whatever league they’re in, whatever the results it seems. Got to admire them for that. 

Perhaps in London there are more alternatives and distractions available to fans who are losing their mojo. 

Fuck all else to do in Sunderland though

Do people actually attend the Royal Opera House, take in a West end show, go and watch different football or take a sight seeing tour of London or do they sit on their sofa scratching their bollocks and watching Soccer Saturday?

As most of our fans don't actually live in Charlton, or London, is there actually more to do in Sevenoaks, Gravesend or Ashford than there is in Sunderland?

Fair point. But I still think there are arguably more options for you if you live in Kent. Although the Sunderland area has a great coastline!

And there's stuff to do in Newcastle as well

It's not really very far from Leeds, York and Edinburgh either.

So if their alternative options are the same as they are for Charlton fans, why do you think they are more likely to support their club in bad times than we apparently are?

JamesSeed said:

shirty5 said:

A home game against Fleetwood is never going to attract a big crowd unless you are giving them away like Sandgaard did just over 18 months ago.

We have a hardcore for 8 to 9 thousand. We are not a big club in terms of crowd numbers. Even if we went up to the Championship it would only rise by a couple of thousand 

This comparison to Sunderland is poppycock 

I think the debate was more about why their gates don’t dip in bad times like ours do. For sure, their hardcore is bigger than ours. Is it as simple as that?

We saw at the playoff final that we have a very good potential following, but how do you tune that into a more committed hardcore following. Or is that impossible with so many other clubs in London?

You answered your own question in that first paragraph 

JamesSeed said:

Cafc43v3r said:

killerandflash said:

JamesSeed said:

Cafc43v3r said:

cantersaddick said:

JamesSeed said:

Braziliance said:

raytreacy69 said:

Traffic problems and train strike will no doubt have lowered the crowd

I think in most cases if people could find a way, they would. 

Ultimately it boils down to the simple fact that we aren't very good at football and don't play in the premier League. Not many clubs could sustain good numbers in this league and most of the ones that could would never find themselves down here. 

I can tell you for instance that I know 6 people in my quite small circle of friends that were attending games in the championship but would never attend league 1 fixtures, all Arsenal fans. 

I can also say I've met a fairly large amount of football fans in my life that have said they had season tickets to watch premier league footie and have an interest in Charlton but support ManU, Chelsea, Arsenal etc. 

The gates aren't good cause the football isn't good, we are a mid to decent tier sized club in the English footballing pyramid. If that game was a premier League fixture the gate is nowhere near that low

Sunderland (and there are one or two others). Their gates don’t dip much whatever league they’re in, whatever the results it seems. Got to admire them for that. 

Perhaps in London there are more alternatives and distractions available to fans who are losing their mojo. 

Fuck all else to do in Sunderland though

Do people actually attend the Royal Opera House, take in a West end show, go and watch different football or take a sight seeing tour of London or do they sit on their sofa scratching their bollocks and watching Soccer Saturday?

As most of our fans don't actually live in Charlton, or London, is there actually more to do in Sevenoaks, Gravesend or Ashford than there is in Sunderland?

Fair point. But I still think there are arguably more options for you if you live in Kent. Although the Sunderland area has a great coastline!

And there's stuff to do in Newcastle as well

It's not really very far from Leeds, York and Edinburgh either.

So if their alternative options are the same as they are for Charlton fans, why do you think they are more likely to support their club in bad times than we apparently are?

They are not the same but there not that different but I honestly don't think people don't go to games, generally, to do something else. Out of choice.

Obviously one off stuff like weddings, family commitments etc come up a few times a season.

I think it's simply a numbers game both in terms of actual core support and % of that that lives near(ish) the ground.  It's a lot easier to go two stops on the bus than 2 hours in the car when you think it's going to be shit.