England vs Italy - Euro 2024 Qualifier - KO @ 7:45pm - C4

Manic_mania said:

Exiled_Addick said:

What's perhaps more impressive is, right now, if you're picking a world XI, which is obviously hugely subjective, I think 3 or 4 English players are legitimate considerations for that team - not saying you'd pick them all - but I don't think anyone would say you are mad to have them as potential inclusions.

I think you are right, to an extent - I think our Brazilian, German, French, Argentinian friends when picking a world XI would name Bellingham, and maybe Kane too. I don't think those people would have been picking out any other English players like that since Gazza, or going even furthr back Moore and Charton (B) 

I think we have a habit of seeing English players as better and more indispensible than they really were. We are a bit biased after all.

I dont think Bellingham and Kane is about bias this time.

We've definitely had some players more recently who were the best in the world in their position.  Ashley Cole for example.

John Terry made the World XI at FIFA awards several times.  Beckham was 2nd in World Player of the Year twice, nearly won it one of those, Lampard came second another year in that and the Ballon d'Or, Gerrard 3rd, Shearer 2nd or 3rd around Euro 96.

But I feel like Bellingham could be better than all of them.

Manic_mania said:

North Lower Neil said:

Manic_mania said:

Exiled_Addick said:

What's perhaps more impressive is, right now, if you're picking a world XI, which is obviously hugely subjective, I think 3 or 4 English players are legitimate considerations for that team - not saying you'd pick them all - but I don't think anyone would say you are mad to have them as potential inclusions.

I think you are right, to an extent - I think our Brazilian, German, French, Argentinian friends when picking a world XI would name Bellingham, and maybe Kane too. I don't think those people would have been picking out any other English players like that since Gazza, or going even furthr back Moore and Charton (B) 

I think we have a habit of seeing English players as better and more indispensible than they really were. We are a bit biased after all.

I dont think Bellingham and Kane is about bias this time.

We've definitely had some players more recently who were the best in the world in their position.  Ashley Cole for example.

John Terry made the World XI at FIFA awards several times.  Beckham was 2nd in World Player of the Year twice, nearly won it one of those, Lampard came second another year in that and the Ballon d'Or, Gerrard 3rd, Shearer 2nd or 3rd around Euro 96.

But I feel like Bellingham could be better than all of them.

To be clear, you think Terry, Beckham, Lampard, Gerrard and Shearer would have been in ANY of our international friend's best XI?

At any stage of their respective careers? 

Not on your nelly 

Thats England bias mate. sorry.

Who do you think voted?!

Manic_mania said:

North Lower Neil said:

Manic_mania said:

North Lower Neil said:

Manic_mania said:

Exiled_Addick said:

What's perhaps more impressive is, right now, if you're picking a world XI, which is obviously hugely subjective, I think 3 or 4 English players are legitimate considerations for that team - not saying you'd pick them all - but I don't think anyone would say you are mad to have them as potential inclusions.

I think you are right, to an extent - I think our Brazilian, German, French, Argentinian friends when picking a world XI would name Bellingham, and maybe Kane too. I don't think those people would have been picking out any other English players like that since Gazza, or going even furthr back Moore and Charton (B) 

I think we have a habit of seeing English players as better and more indispensible than they really were. We are a bit biased after all.

I dont think Bellingham and Kane is about bias this time.

We've definitely had some players more recently who were the best in the world in their position.  Ashley Cole for example.

John Terry made the World XI at FIFA awards several times.  Beckham was 2nd in World Player of the Year twice, nearly won it one of those, Lampard came second another year in that and the Ballon d'Or, Gerrard 3rd, Shearer 2nd or 3rd around Euro 96.

But I feel like Bellingham could be better than all of them.

To be clear, you think Terry, Beckham, Lampard, Gerrard and Shearer would have been in ANY of our international friend's best XI?

At any stage of their respective careers? 

Not on your nelly 

Thats England bias mate. sorry.

Who do you think voted?!

FIFA I assume

Ballon d'Or is chosen by international journalists and international team's managers.

The FIFA one is chosen by international journalists, international team's managers, and international team's captains.

The World XI is chosen by all professional men's and women's footballers.

So yeah, to answer your question, I think our international friends would definitely have picked those players in their World XIs.  Because they did.

Manic_mania said:

Exiled_Addick said:

What's perhaps more impressive is, right now, if you're picking a world XI, which is obviously hugely subjective, I think 3 or 4 English players are legitimate considerations for that team - not saying you'd pick them all - but I don't think anyone would say you are mad to have them as potential inclusions.

I think you are right, to an extent - I think our Brazilian, German, French, Argentinian friends when picking a world XI would name Bellingham, and maybe Kane too. I don't think those people would have been picking out any other English players like that since Gazza, or going even furthr back Moore and Charton (B) 

I think we have a habit of seeing English players as better and more indispensible than they really were. We are a bit biased after all.

I dont think Bellingham and Kane is about bias this time.

Well and the fans of those nations have their own biases too. That's why I said it's subjective. Even Kane isn't a shoe-in for centre forward with Haaland around. What I mean is, when you're drawing up your shortlist for best players in the world in each position, there's going to be more than just Kane and Bellingham making those shortlist. Rice, Saka, Foden (perhaps more for club form than country form), maybe even Rashford (although less so on his form this season), while they maybe don't make the final selected XI they're on the shortlists. I think Saka, in particular, has a very strong case. There's not really many outstanding individuals in the German, Italian, or Brazilian teams right now. Even Argentina won a world cup without a superstar at their peak (Messi was still very good but not the full Messi of old). Probably only France match us for depth of talent right now, and I don't think I'm being biased when I say that.

Weirdly, two of the best players in the Premier League right now are Norwegian, but Scotland of all teams have qualified ahead of Norway.

Exiled_Addick said:

Manic_mania said:

Exiled_Addick said:

What's perhaps more impressive is, right now, if you're picking a world XI, which is obviously hugely subjective, I think 3 or 4 English players are legitimate considerations for that team - not saying you'd pick them all - but I don't think anyone would say you are mad to have them as potential inclusions.

I think you are right, to an extent - I think our Brazilian, German, French, Argentinian friends when picking a world XI would name Bellingham, and maybe Kane too. I don't think those people would have been picking out any other English players like that since Gazza, or going even furthr back Moore and Charton (B) 

I think we have a habit of seeing English players as better and more indispensible than they really were. We are a bit biased after all.

I dont think Bellingham and Kane is about bias this time.

Well and the fans of those nations have their own biases too. That's why I said it's subjective. Even Kane isn't a shoe-in for centre forward with Haaland around. What I mean is, when you're drawing up your shortlist for best players in the world in each position, there's going to be more than just Kane and Bellingham making those shortlist. Rice, Saka, Foden (perhaps more for club form than country form), maybe even Rashford (although less so on his form this season), while they maybe don't make the final selected XI they're on the shortlists. I think Saka, in particular, has a very strong case. There's not really many outstanding individuals in the German, Italian, or Brazilian teams right now. Even Argentina won a world cup without a superstar at their peak (Messi was still very good but not the full Messi of old). Probably only France match us for depth of talent right now, and I don't think I'm being biased when I say that.

Weirdly, two of the best players in the Premier League right now are Norwegian, but Scotland of all teams have qualified ahead of Norway.

respectfully, i disagree (-i always do) its Kane and Bellingham -  feel free to tie yourself in knots to come to the same conclusion

A few points.

Every other country's fans are biased, though few have as many cynics as we do in England. 
Every country's commentators are biased, many far more biased than ours. 
Bellingham will get injured in April. Probably by a player who will be up against us in Germany.
VAR is shit.
Sam 3110 has gone very quiet. 
 

Carter said:

That was a really decent performance by England. Moved the ball quickly and having the x factor of Bellingham cannot be underplayed, he is well on his way to making a claim for the best footballer on the planet. 

Italy don't get beaten by 2 goal margins as a rule and to do that coming from behind against an Italy side isn't to be sniffed at regardless of who is in the squad 

For me the next tournament has to be the one we win, I said after France beat us at the mickey mouse world cup we were 2 thirds of the way up the mountain and I genuinely believe in Bellingham we are fortunate enough to have a genuine match winner to support our other crucial, essential player in Kane. 

Centre back still worries me (Maguire not Stones).

Apart from that we're really strong at the moment.

North Lower Neil said:

Carter said:

That was a really decent performance by England. Moved the ball quickly and having the x factor of Bellingham cannot be underplayed, he is well on his way to making a claim for the best footballer on the planet. 

Italy don't get beaten by 2 goal margins as a rule and to do that coming from behind against an Italy side isn't to be sniffed at regardless of who is in the squad 

For me the next tournament has to be the one we win, I said after France beat us at the mickey mouse world cup we were 2 thirds of the way up the mountain and I genuinely believe in Bellingham we are fortunate enough to have a genuine match winner to support our other crucial, essential player in Kane. 

Centre back still worries me (Maguire not Stones).

Apart from that we're really strong at the movement.

I'm a Harry Maguire fan, I will listen to anyone who says he should be playing but I appreciate Southgate trusts him and he hasn't got form for letting the team down. Lewis Dunk hasn't looked out of place at all though last few games. Stones is one of the best centre halves in the world in my book, I'm glad he was allowed to make a lot of fuck ups when he was younger. Southgate, I liked what he did last night, stayed with the Italians first half and knew we would have them on the breaks which is how I think we have been set up to play for years but now have exactly the players to pull it off. 

I'm a natural pessimist with football and there is plenty of time before the tournament. Hopefully Maguire gets loaned abroad for 6 months to get some mileage in his legs 

Wellred said:

3-1 to us Come On England 

If that's not a post-game edit, I'll have the next Charlton score, please.

Laddick01 said:

How long has it been since England have had arguably the current 'best player in the world' ?

Possibilities for the position they played I can remember - Banks, Moore, R Charlton, Gasgoigne, Lineker, Robson.  Now Kane.  Difficult to say if, for example, a keeper is a better keeper than a striker is a better striker so judging the absolute best player isn't easy.

MuttleyCAFC said:

With my half Italian hat on, they have no pace and not enough goal threat. When you look at the riches England have in that respect, they may be a bit envious. I think they will scrape through though and they can always bore their way to success.

I was pleased for Rashford. He is off form but that goal may have helped him find some again. At his best he can be unplayable. I would have taken him off before that so that is a positive.  

Thought they started to look dangerous down the right/our left a few times but they were really lacking the final ball/finish.

Looking back, I don’t think it was our best performance by any means. Poorest game I’ve seen Rice have, and the left side of Rashford and Trippier got overran first half. Then a couple of tweaks and regroup at HT and second half was so much better. 

Manic_mania said:

how the fuck did Zola only get 35 games for Italy. 

Dont think,I could be wrong,DiCanio got any caps.

thickandthin63 said:

Manic_mania said:

how the fuck did Zola only get 35 games for Italy. 

Dont think,I could be wrong,DiCanio got any caps.

Italy were stacked in that 'just off the main striker/nunber 10' place - Del Piero, Totti etc.