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The Dangers of a Cashless Society.
Comments
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Quite right.ShootersHillGuru said:Many smaller and medium sized towns are losing their high street banks. This means businesses are forced to work even harder to “bank” their takings, often using a post office where they are obliged to queue with others holding a bag holding hundreds or perhaps even thousands of pounds ? A robber’s paradise and a lot of hassle for the shops. I can fully understand why some businesses are not inclined to take cash. As @AFKA has pointed out, an intransigence to accept cards and insist on cash is in my view purely as a way of avoiding something. Eventually cash will be gone because all the people who can’t negotiate the technology will also be gone. It’s inevitable at some point.
Of course the counter argument is that businesses need not work harder if they take cards as most (not all) customers prefer to use. The Banks close their branches simply because the demand isn't there any longer.
Its a small percentage of takings that are cash today in most businesses.
The argument doesn't hold that the fees to do so are too high - there are fees to dealing in cash with banks and the post office because its labour intensive and with risk / insurance considerations etc. Those costs are different with cards. No one has the right to free business banking.
As you say inevitable.0 -
Why use my time to learn how to use things when I can moan about it instead….9
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Cash handling is crazy expensive and dangerous, you need secure tank like trucks to move the stuff around, at risk to the staff on board.Cards and Open Banking payments cost a fraction of that5
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I don't think he's quite on the money about everything, I doubt it's as drastic as he says, but, it is all about control.Nadou said:Who needs Alex Jones and wild conspiracy theories when the reality is here and now - it took my breath away to find out that our current government, which is simultaneously corrupt and incompetent, now wants to have the right to access the bank account of anyone who receives a state pension.
None of the things being put in place are for our safety or protection, it's to have complete control over society, the powers that be, will want it to be at a point where everything can be tracked and traced. Everywhere you go, a trail of every transaction you make, things like phone contracts, social media, TV. All designed to keep you inside, in-line and to track where you are.
You'll have the prison for your average Joe who have to adhere to guidelines and rules to have access to their money and rights, and then you'll have the actual prison which we know today. They've already recognised how obedient humans are with how we reacted when covid hit. People following chevrons in supermarkets, checking into restaurants, limting us to how often we could leave our house. All the while they were having parties of their own and doing as they pleased.
Ultimately the powers that be want everything monitored and under control at the same time, things like a cashless society, more robots and A.I. type programmes will ensure that.
You get laughed at if you think this way, but when you take a step back and take a look at the history of earth and people in power, it's hardly surprising the way the world is going.
Ultimately though, there's not much we can do about it, similar to Charlton being good at football. I just get on with it and expect the worst but hope for the best.
The footage of someone confirming about pensions:
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there are countless books and articles on the pros and cons of a 'cashless society' .. for my part the issue is that EVERY credit/debit card transaction leaves a digital trail, as has been outlined above .. I have not a lot to hide (my secret life is an open book), BUT just because I'm paranoid, it doesn't mean 'they' are not out to get me0
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I really don't care if the govt really want to look in my bank account. I support the idea of stopping fraud from the measure. What am I missing? Why wouod you care if you arent breaking the law? Where does the fear of an "invasive" or "authoritarian" government stem from here? What is the root issue?2
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I would never give a beggar cash. I have on occasions asked them if they want a sandwich when I’ve been getting one for myself. If they are hungry then they can ask for food, not cash.Gribbo said:Not thought about this too much, but do remember a news report I watched on the first bakers come coffee shop to go cashless (think it was one of thoes in Turnham Green Terrace from memory). The manager was coming over like he was doing a massive service to his customers, but I remember thinking; it's okay for these poncy places to do it, but what happens if / when all the bakers and food places go cashless? What are homeless people with no bank account and who beg for their money going to do? Or those who have done the odd job for 20 quid, and that what they've got to live on for the next week or 2?
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No cash means less theft, drugs, prostitution, bribes, VAT fraud etc, people will be fairly reluctant to hand over their debit card/ mobile for a quick hand shandy behind a skip0
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Siv_in_Norfolk said:I really don't care if the govt really want to look in my bank account. I support the idea of stopping fraud from the measure. What am I missing? Why wouod you care if you arent breaking the law? Where does the fear of an "invasive" or "authoritarian" government stem from here? What is the root issue?I take it you are not being serious?It has bugger all to do with the government what I have in my bank account. Banks monitor (or should) AML and POC suspicious activity and report it, and HMRC control the tax I pay. Why on earth would the government want to know details of bank accounts for people in receipt of state pension? Are they considering means testing it?
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Usually on the way home from the Valley, on match days we phone ahead and order a Chinese take away.
I always get a 10% reduction if I pay by cash rather than by card.0 -
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Even if they were they aren’t likely to be in power so it’s not a concern. 🙂bobmunro said:Siv_in_Norfolk said:I really don't care if the govt really want to look in my bank account. I support the idea of stopping fraud from the measure. What am I missing? Why wouod you care if you arent breaking the law? Where does the fear of an "invasive" or "authoritarian" government stem from here? What is the root issue?I take it you are not being serious?It has bugger all to do with the government what I have in my bank account. Banks monitor (or should) AML and POC suspicious activity and report it, and HMRC control the tax I pay. Why on earth would the government want to know details of bank accounts for people in receipt of state pension? Are they considering means testing it?1 -
Let’s go with 30 @Algarveaddick :-)Algarveaddick said:
So for 30-40 (50?AFKABartram said:
At the opposite end @stop_shouting , the pub me and you used to have a post work scoop off the train in remains Cash Only. Right pain.stop_shouting said:The only time I use cash is to pay the window cleaner. My local pub is cashless and my father in law absolutely hates it when I take him there. Coincidentally, he’s also a window cleaner.
) plus years, no problem, suddenly "Right pain"?
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Justin Trudeau froze the bank accounts of people who protested his vaccine mandates.
A lesson there for anyone who thinks a cashless society is a good thing.6 -
Maybe the root of the fear of an authoritarian government is the experience of lockdown.Siv_in_Norfolk said:I really don't care if the govt really want to look in my bank account. I support the idea of stopping fraud from the measure. What am I missing? Why wouod you care if you arent breaking the law? Where does the fear of an "invasive" or "authoritarian" government stem from here? What is the root issue?5 -
So the fear is means testing?bobmunro said:Siv_in_Norfolk said:I really don't care if the govt really want to look in my bank account. I support the idea of stopping fraud from the measure. What am I missing? Why wouod you care if you arent breaking the law? Where does the fear of an "invasive" or "authoritarian" government stem from here? What is the root issue?I take it you are not being serious?It has bugger all to do with the government what I have in my bank account. Banks monitor (or should) AML and POC suspicious activity and report it, and HMRC control the tax I pay. Why on earth would the government want to know details of bank accounts for people in receipt of state pension? Are they considering means testing it?1 -
I don't get the connectionsjimmymelrose said:
Maybe the root of the fear of an authoritarian government is the experience of lockdown.Siv_in_Norfolk said:I really don't care if the govt really want to look in my bank account. I support the idea of stopping fraud from the measure. What am I missing? Why wouod you care if you arent breaking the law? Where does the fear of an "invasive" or "authoritarian" government stem from here? What is the root issue?1 -
That’s without doubt to encourage people to pay with cash so that it’s money the restaurant doesn’t have to declare as income. There’s no other real reason.Billericaydickie said:Usually on the way home from the Valley, on match days we phone ahead and order a Chinese take away.
I always get a 10% reduction if I pay by cash rather than by card.4 -
100%ShootersHillGuru said:
That’s without doubt to encourage people to pay with cash so that it’s money the restaurant doesn’t have to declare as income. There’s no other real reason.Billericaydickie said:Usually on the way home from the Valley, on match days we phone ahead and order a Chinese take away.
I always get a 10% reduction if I pay by cash rather than by card.
Can't recall what topic it was on but I posted my experience of tradesmen over the last 18-24 months whilst I refurb my house. I've only found one that would take the complete payment by bank transfer, every single other (and I'm talking 20+) wanted at least an element of cash ranging from 25% to 100%. One guy I've used a lot and have got to know him quite well declares probably less than 25% of his earnings. I've also found most of them want me to buy (or pay for) the materials directly as otherwise their turn over would breach VAT levels.
At first I tried to not use cash or very little but very quickly became apparent I'd not get much work done if I stuck to that principle! Even largish organisations, I've had new flooring fitted throughout at differing times and whilst paying for the carpet etc has been by debit/credit card, payment to the fitter always has to be cash (it even says it on the flooring invoice!)
The lost revenue due to 'cash' payments to HMRC must be huge so little wonder there is a drive to go cashless.3 -
Siv_in_Norfolk said:
So the fear is means testing?bobmunro said:Siv_in_Norfolk said:I really don't care if the govt really want to look in my bank account. I support the idea of stopping fraud from the measure. What am I missing? Why wouod you care if you arent breaking the law? Where does the fear of an "invasive" or "authoritarian" government stem from here? What is the root issue?I take it you are not being serious?It has bugger all to do with the government what I have in my bank account. Banks monitor (or should) AML and POC suspicious activity and report it, and HMRC control the tax I pay. Why on earth would the government want to know details of bank accounts for people in receipt of state pension? Are they considering means testing it?My specific comment was in relation to a government accessing bank accounts of state pension recipients.My overall fear is of an invasive and authoritarian government - where does it end? You seem to have no problem with a 1984 approach - I do.4 -
So you don’t get the connection between the biggest authoritarian act in western civilisation history and the fear of authoritarianism?Siv_in_Norfolk said:
I don't get the connectionsjimmymelrose said:
Maybe the root of the fear of an authoritarian government is the experience of lockdown.Siv_in_Norfolk said:I really don't care if the govt really want to look in my bank account. I support the idea of stopping fraud from the measure. What am I missing? Why wouod you care if you arent breaking the law? Where does the fear of an "invasive" or "authoritarian" government stem from here? What is the root issue?
They should have thought long and hard over the extreme measures they took because in some of us law abiding citizens they have inbred a long and hard distrust of the government and the police.
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My understanding from a conversation with HMRC about 4 years ago is they (HMRC) get details of everyone's 'interest' from bank accounts anyway. I had a letter back then saying I had under declared my interest by about £13 so owed a further £5! When I spoke to them they had a list of every account and the interest I earned (I'd forgotten an online one I had with a small balance).bobmunro said:Siv_in_Norfolk said:
So the fear is means testing?bobmunro said:Siv_in_Norfolk said:I really don't care if the govt really want to look in my bank account. I support the idea of stopping fraud from the measure. What am I missing? Why wouod you care if you arent breaking the law? Where does the fear of an "invasive" or "authoritarian" government stem from here? What is the root issue?I take it you are not being serious?It has bugger all to do with the government what I have in my bank account. Banks monitor (or should) AML and POC suspicious activity and report it, and HMRC control the tax I pay. Why on earth would the government want to know details of bank accounts for people in receipt of state pension? Are they considering means testing it?My specific comment was in relation to a government accessing bank accounts of state pension recipients.My overall fear is of an invasive and authoritarian government - where does it end? You seem to have no problem with a 1984 approach - I do.
Whether they pick an individual and look into (which may be the case as I keep very little non ISA savings in my sole name so it may have hit a trigger of high earner/little interest) or get a complete list I don't know, but they certainly can find out if they want to.0 -
Rob7Lee said:
My understanding from a conversation with HMRC about 4 years ago is they (HMRC) get details of everyone's 'interest' from bank accounts anyway. I had a letter back then saying I had under declared my interest by about £13 so owed a further £5! When I spoke to them they had a list of every account and the interest I earned (I'd forgotten an online one I had with a small balance).bobmunro said:Siv_in_Norfolk said:
So the fear is means testing?bobmunro said:Siv_in_Norfolk said:I really don't care if the govt really want to look in my bank account. I support the idea of stopping fraud from the measure. What am I missing? Why wouod you care if you arent breaking the law? Where does the fear of an "invasive" or "authoritarian" government stem from here? What is the root issue?I take it you are not being serious?It has bugger all to do with the government what I have in my bank account. Banks monitor (or should) AML and POC suspicious activity and report it, and HMRC control the tax I pay. Why on earth would the government want to know details of bank accounts for people in receipt of state pension? Are they considering means testing it?My specific comment was in relation to a government accessing bank accounts of state pension recipients.My overall fear is of an invasive and authoritarian government - where does it end? You seem to have no problem with a 1984 approach - I do.
Whether they pick an individual and look into (which may be the case as I keep very little non ISA savings in my sole name so it may have hit a trigger of high earner/little interest) or get a complete list I don't know, but they certainly can find out if they want to.I have no issue with HMRC getting details of taxable interest - that's no different to employers providing details of earnings and PAYE. If tax is due it should be paid.Routine access to bank accounts is something else.5 -
Agreedbobmunro said:Rob7Lee said:
My understanding from a conversation with HMRC about 4 years ago is they (HMRC) get details of everyone's 'interest' from bank accounts anyway. I had a letter back then saying I had under declared my interest by about £13 so owed a further £5! When I spoke to them they had a list of every account and the interest I earned (I'd forgotten an online one I had with a small balance).bobmunro said:Siv_in_Norfolk said:
So the fear is means testing?bobmunro said:Siv_in_Norfolk said:I really don't care if the govt really want to look in my bank account. I support the idea of stopping fraud from the measure. What am I missing? Why wouod you care if you arent breaking the law? Where does the fear of an "invasive" or "authoritarian" government stem from here? What is the root issue?I take it you are not being serious?It has bugger all to do with the government what I have in my bank account. Banks monitor (or should) AML and POC suspicious activity and report it, and HMRC control the tax I pay. Why on earth would the government want to know details of bank accounts for people in receipt of state pension? Are they considering means testing it?My specific comment was in relation to a government accessing bank accounts of state pension recipients.My overall fear is of an invasive and authoritarian government - where does it end? You seem to have no problem with a 1984 approach - I do.
Whether they pick an individual and look into (which may be the case as I keep very little non ISA savings in my sole name so it may have hit a trigger of high earner/little interest) or get a complete list I don't know, but they certainly can find out if they want to.I have no issue with HMRC getting details of taxable interest - that's no different to employers providing details of earnings and PAYE. If tax is due it should be paid.Routine access to bank accounts is something else.0 -
Is it really mate? You must be able to count Cash only pubs in the south east on one hand. My other local pub was until covid but even they reluctantly buckled.AFKABartram said:
At the opposite end @stop_shouting , the pub me and you used to have a post work scoop off the train in remains Cash Only. Right pain.stop_shouting said:The only time I use cash is to pay the window cleaner. My local pub is cashless and my father in law absolutely hates it when I take him there. Coincidentally, he’s also a window cleaner.1 -
I have never tipped using a card. Always cash, and hopefully always straight into the receivers pocket.O-Randy-Hunt said:
Yea no doubt many won't use a card machine until they are forced to for book fiddling. My local barbers, kebab shop and chippy are still cash only and I doubt they will change until they are forced to.AFKABartram said:
Yes mate, because your habits change. I don’t generally carry much cash with me and don’t think I’m alone in that.Algarveaddick said:
So for 30-40 (50?AFKABartram said:
At the opposite end @stop_shouting , the pub me and you used to have a post work scoop off the train in remains Cash Only. Right pain.stop_shouting said:The only time I use cash is to pay the window cleaner. My local pub is cashless and my father in law absolutely hates it when I take him there. Coincidentally, he’s also a window cleaner. ) plus years, no problem, suddenly "Right pain"? I went elsewhere last Friday and my two rounds come to just under £80. I haven’t carried that in cash for about 5 years. Going to a pub and then mid evening having to go traipsing off to try and find a cash machine to top up and then walk back as you either wasn’t intending to pop in, or staying longer than originally planned, is just an unnecessary hassle.If a busker, ice cream man or coffee seller on a bicycle can work card payments then so should an established pub or takeaway restaurant with a high turnover. Can be dressed up how they like but I can’t see anything other than book fiddling / tax avoidance as the reason imo
Card machine company's take the piss with what they take though. I pay thousands of my income a year to the card machine company which could be money in my pocket instead. Luckily the customers that tip me are mostly just paying it straight to the card company as shown below
Personally, love a bit of cash.
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We need to remember there's plenty of people out there who'll ask if if they can get the job done cheaper if they pay cash.Rob7Lee said:
100%ShootersHillGuru said:
That’s without doubt to encourage people to pay with cash so that it’s money the restaurant doesn’t have to declare as income. There’s no other real reason.Billericaydickie said:Usually on the way home from the Valley, on match days we phone ahead and order a Chinese take away.
I always get a 10% reduction if I pay by cash rather than by card.
Can't recall what topic it was on but I posted my experience of tradesmen over the last 18-24 months whilst I refurb my house. I've only found one that would take the complete payment by bank transfer, every single other (and I'm talking 20+) wanted at least an element of cash ranging from 25% to 100%. One guy I've used a lot and have got to know him quite well declares probably less than 25% of his earnings. I've also found most of them want me to buy (or pay for) the materials directly as otherwise their turn over would breach VAT levels.
At first I tried to not use cash or very little but very quickly became apparent I'd not get much work done if I stuck to that principle! Even largish organisations, I've had new flooring fitted throughout at differing times and whilst paying for the carpet etc has been by debit/credit card, payment to the fitter always has to be cash (it even says it on the flooring invoice!)
The lost revenue due to 'cash' payments to HMRC must be huge so little wonder there is a drive to go cashless.0 -
Apart from when on holiday in other countries I’ve not had to touch cash in years. Literally never needed it.Can’t see a single issue with it myself, makes life so much easier. If Chinese 70 year old uneducated farmers can manage it, you have to wonder who can’t.6
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Maybe those tradespersons are not as wealthy as you?Rob7Lee said:
100%ShootersHillGuru said:
That’s without doubt to encourage people to pay with cash so that it’s money the restaurant doesn’t have to declare as income. There’s no other real reason.Billericaydickie said:Usually on the way home from the Valley, on match days we phone ahead and order a Chinese take away.
I always get a 10% reduction if I pay by cash rather than by card.
Can't recall what topic it was on but I posted my experience of tradesmen over the last 18-24 months whilst I refurb my house. I've only found one that would take the complete payment by bank transfer, every single other (and I'm talking 20+) wanted at least an element of cash ranging from 25% to 100%. One guy I've used a lot and have got to know him quite well declares probably less than 25% of his earnings. I've also found most of them want me to buy (or pay for) the materials directly as otherwise their turn over would breach VAT levels.
At first I tried to not use cash or very little but very quickly became apparent I'd not get much work done if I stuck to that principle! Even largish organisations, I've had new flooring fitted throughout at differing times and whilst paying for the carpet etc has been by debit/credit card, payment to the fitter always has to be cash (it even says it on the flooring invoice!)
The lost revenue due to 'cash' payments to HMRC must be huge so little wonder there is a drive to go cashless.
Furthermore, maybe they are in fear of losing the work if they slap 20% on top.
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Agreed. The point people miss with this "they're tracking my digital footprint" point is that you're footprints are everywhere, they don't need this aspect to be able to track you. If someone wanted to track you they could using any one of a million digital means. You can either go and live off grid in a yurt with no technology at all or accept you leave a footprint and unless you have something to hide get on with it.Siv_in_Norfolk said:I really don't care if the govt really want to look in my bank account. I support the idea of stopping fraud from the measure. What am I missing? Why wouod you care if you arent breaking the law? Where does the fear of an "invasive" or "authoritarian" government stem from here? What is the root issue?
The other point is that governments don't have the capability to properly use the data they do have. There is no way they could effectively do anything with this. Most big corporations fall into the same bracket and even then if they did it would only be to target your ads to closer match your preferences. Hardly the end of the world.
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If Alex Jones is against a cash less society then I'm for it.
Where is this quote issuing getting fixed?0
