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POST-MATCH THREAD: Barnsley vs Charlton Athletic: Saturday 16th December 2023 | KO 3:00pm
Comments
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Having slept on it, I think a positive was we did have some fight in us yesterday. The biggest negative for me was Fraser. He seems to be at the moment a luxury player who doesn't give you any luxury. I was livid at the very end of the game when he turned down the chance to mount a last attack to boot. I have seen him play well, but feel we are carrying him at the moment, I know he is better than what he is showing, and Watson is probably a better bet although he has had a couple of poor games that have probably stuck in Appleton's head.5
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VAR does ruin games, I agree, but Hawkeye doesn’t. Nevertheless, as you say, we still haven’t see a bird’s eye view of it.LargeAddick said:Still not seen any evidence to show the ball was definitely completely over the line so who is to say it was? Think back to the World Cup when everyone thought the ball was over the line when Japan scored but it wasn’t. Even if it was a bad decision so what? It happens. Maybe instead we should all be piling on CBT who if he’d crossed in the first half would have given Alfie a tap in. Easier to blame the ref though eh? Maybe he made a mistake but he’s only human. I’d rather refs making honest mistakes than VAR ruining games.
If with the current rule it’s so difficult to tell with the naked eye (without technology), then the rule should be changed. I don’t remember this problem in the past: didn’t it used to be that if the ball isn’t actually touching the line (as in both the Japan match and yesterday's match) then it’s out?0 -
We have to accept it. What I would say is if the ref had called it out, Barnsley fans wouldn't be moaning about it like we are which probably tells you what you need to know about it.
It is a good point made earlier that if you take May and CBT out of the equation, we do not score enough from other positions. That and set pieces need to be a priority for addresing and is almost certainly why we are not in the top six. I thought we defended corners better than usual yesterday which is a positive.1 -
I would rather refs didn't make as many obvious errors.LargeAddick said:Still not seen any evidence to show the ball was definitely completely over the line so who is to say it was? Think back to the World Cup when everyone thought the ball was over the line when Japan scored but it wasn’t. Even if it was a bad decision so what? It happens. Maybe instead we should all be piling on CBT who if he’d crossed in the first half would have given Alfie a tap in. Easier to blame the ref though eh? Maybe he made a mistake but he’s only human. I’d rather refs making honest mistakes than VAR ruining games.1 -
Could the ball be any more out?! (RIP Matt Perry).AdTheAddicK said:
I don't think that's conclusive at all.EveshamAddick said:
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This argument about whether we might reasonably expect Dobbo to have played to the whistle is only part of the story. When it became blindingly obvious that the ref wasn't giving the goal kick we were massively slow to react to the danger. Kane had all the time in the world to pick out a teammate to finish. I think we could have done more to get a challenge/block in.3
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Interesting point re kicking the ball away if it had been out, he would probably have been booked for that. Then everyone would be moaning that it was an unnecessary booking.3
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Went Yesterday. Enjoyed the day out and a new ground ticked off. Nightmare with trains, but managed to still get to Barnsley in good time and go to the East Dene Working Mens Club.
Thought we started the first 5 minutes well, looked to attack from off, without creating too much. Think Blackett Taylor should have done better with the early chance he had. We then started to play poorly at times, but just before we equalised we started to get back into game.
Didn't think Barnsley were up too much and Thought it was probably two average sides. We need to really see a real turnaround and fast though in getting wins if we want to get top 6.
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I've never really been a fan of VAR.... but with the often abysmal standard of referring in League one, VAR is desperately needed now in this division.Chippycafc said:That ball is so far over the line how did both officials miss that.7 -
We also went to the working men's club. Great place with unbelievable prices. Sat in there with Barnsley fans and had great time. Oh and yes our train journeys both way were diabolical.UEAAddick said:Went Yesterday. Enjoyed the day out and a new ground ticked off. Nightmare with trains, but managed to still get to Barnsley in good time and go to the East Dene Working Mens Club.
Thought we started the first 5 minutes well, looked to attack from off, without creating too much. Think Blackett Taylor should have done better with the early chance he had. We then started to play poorly at times, but just before we equalised we started to get back into game.
Didn't think Barnsley were up too much and Thought it was probably two average sides. We need to really see a real turnaround and fast though in getting wins if we want to get top 6.1 - Sponsored links:
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The most encouraging thing for me yesterday was how they played as a 'team', albeit, with one or two weak links. They worked for each other and moved to find space. How many times have we said this about other sides we have faced. Special mention to the defence, that for once didn't give you a fright whenever they were put under pressure. I think at long last we may have found a full back combination that works because they were as good going forward as they were in defence.2
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A bit like corner taking. I remember Kinsella being one of the first players to take a corner with the ball "hanging" over the quadrant rather than being in it. Has there been a law change ??jimmymelrose said:
VAR does ruin games, I agree, but Hawkeye doesn’t. Nevertheless, as you say, we still haven’t see a bird’s eye view of it.LargeAddick said:Still not seen any evidence to show the ball was definitely completely over the line so who is to say it was? Think back to the World Cup when everyone thought the ball was over the line when Japan scored but it wasn’t. Even if it was a bad decision so what? It happens. Maybe instead we should all be piling on CBT who if he’d crossed in the first half would have given Alfie a tap in. Easier to blame the ref though eh? Maybe he made a mistake but he’s only human. I’d rather refs making honest mistakes than VAR ruining games.
If with the current rule it’s so difficult to tell with the naked eye (without technology), then the rule should be changed. I don’t remember this problem in the past: didn’t it used to be that if the ball isn’t actually touching the line (as in both the Japan match and yesterday's match) then it’s out?0 -
Well that was a very good performance, continuing the form shown in the second half against Cambridge.
We had a little bit more bite in midfield where I think Chem Campbell offers a little bit more physicality than some; but overall I’m not that happy with a line up that I still think is unbalanced.T Watson, Hector, Thomas and Edun are only really supported defensively by Dobson. That’s crazy in the modern game. No wonder we’ve only kept three clean sheets all season. I’m praying we sign a midfielder who can protect the back four. Playing Fraser in a deeper role is asking for problems against most sides, although Barnsley looked quite poor to me (perhaps because they were missing a couple of key players?)I think this is the third or fourth match in a row where the back four has played pretty well. Hector must have won over some of his knockers by now (although still picking up 6s on Players Marks thread), and Thomas deserves praise for replacing Jones so effectively. MotM will probably be between Hec and Edun, who is combining really well with CBT at last.
I hope we start Kanu against Burton, because I think he’s improved over the last six months and deserves his chance.Oh, and a shout out for AMB who pulled of a worldly save around the twenty minute mark from that long range effort.5 -
This.Davo55 said:This argument about whether we might reasonably expect Dobbo to have played to the whistle is only part of the story. When it became blindingly obvious that the ref wasn't giving the goal kick we were massively slow to react to the danger. Kane had all the time in the world to pick out a teammate to finish. I think we could have done more to get a challenge/block in.
Anyone would think we are talking about the ball being over the goal line ffs ! It had to travel a long way into our box & to one of their players before a goal is scored.0 -
Anyone questioning if the ball was out. Would your view change if it was a may shot and it was a Barnsley leg blocking the ball in the same position?0
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You are right Golfie, I still feel the reason why we haven't turned draws into wins, is the injuries to Leaburn and Aneke. It could be argued that to rely on just Miles Leaburn, still learning his trade, is foolish, to then rely on Chuks to step into his shoes is plain crazy. Two strikers of some quality, with no underlying injury history need to be brought in, and certainly not by the end of the window. Three games left to the halfway point in the season, if we can get to 35 points by that point, far from easy with our inconsistencies, I'd be happy, get the forwards we need and that winning run you mention may well happen.golfaddick said:
Shame that the top 4 are doing better than that though. We have kept pace with 6th (Derby) over the last couple of games but I would imagine the top 3 or 4 have pulled away a bit more (except Oxford).Callumcafc said:
ORgolfaddick said:
And people keep saying that Appleton's doing ok as we aren't losing games.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:Need to turn draws into wins. 4 draws in last 5 games.
Keep losing ground on the teams above us.
If we had lost 2 & won 2 of those 4 drawn games we'd have 6 points instead of 4. It's not how many you don't lose its how many you win.
You can look at the last six games, of which four have been away from home.
Four away games, four draws.
Two home games, two wins.
Yes there was a win away (at Wigan) and a draw at home (vs Cambridge) but the overall point is that we’ve actually been on the “win your home games and draw your away games” pace in the league since October. Shame there’s so much still to catch up.
The cup disasters were just that, disasters. And people were right to be pissed off about it. But the league stuff we’ve actually been decent on the whole with silly mistakes scattered in there that’s prevented us from doing even better.
Whatever way you look at it we need to be doing better than "win at home & draw away" as we were miles behind in the first place. We need to go on a winning run for 5 or 6 games....and even that might mean we are "only" 4 or 5 points off 6th.0 -
For me the debate about if the ball was truly out is settled on if you think Dobson is the kind of player who is too lazy and unwilling to do his job to his best ability.
I have yet to see Dobson show anything but 100% commitment every single time he pulls on a Charlton shirt.
The kind of commitment, effort & ability that if more in our squad showed every match would mean we would not be middling around in the third tier still.5 -
Of course but that yesterday wasn’t an obvious error. Last weeks penalty issue was far, far more contentious and an obvious error.Todds_right_hook said:
I would rather refs didn't make as many obvious errors.LargeAddick said:Still not seen any evidence to show the ball was definitely completely over the line so who is to say it was? Think back to the World Cup when everyone thought the ball was over the line when Japan scored but it wasn’t. Even if it was a bad decision so what? It happens. Maybe instead we should all be piling on CBT who if he’d crossed in the first half would have given Alfie a tap in. Easier to blame the ref though eh? Maybe he made a mistake but he’s only human. I’d rather refs making honest mistakes than VAR ruining games.0 -
League Games where Fraser has played in the 2 next to Dobson:
Played 4, 2 draws, 2 Losses, 2 points
League Games where Louie Watson has played in the 2 next to Dobson:
Played 6, 4 wins, 2 Draws, 14 points15 -
100% - its bizarre what he's done to Louis Watson - he was playing great and then dropped for no apparent reason other than to try and shoehorn fraser and mgrandles into the team - both of whom are inferior playersNabySarr said:It looks like Louie Watson is the latest to fall out of favour with Appleton. 2 games in a row he’s been left on the bench when we’ve been crying out for someone with a bit more energy who can take care of the ball. Appleton would rather put a 17 year old striker on and put Kanu on the wing?Watson should be starting most games, but should be at the very least involved in every game with our lack of options at the moment12 - Sponsored links:
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it is for me and was when watching on tv yesterday - case closed - officiating error - againAdTheAddicK said:
I don't think that's conclusive at all.EveshamAddick said:5 -
Yeah it could, it could be a few inches away from the advertisement board. I don't blame Dobson at all. I think it's just an unfortunate event. But there's no way on earth you can categorically say that's deffo out from that photo. We've seen the Japan and also Newcastle incident a few weeks. Shame we couldn't hold on against Cambridge as that would of felt even better. But it was a good performance. Burton is important we play how we did yesterday on the front foot straight away.JamesSeed said:
Could the ball be any more out?! (RIP Matt Perry).AdTheAddicK said:
I don't think that's conclusive at all.EveshamAddick said:2 -
Even if there is the possibility of optical illusion, Curbs and co. always say that refs and linos can’t always have good sightlines, in which case the better/more intelligent ones look at player reactions to help them. In this case Dobbo whacked the corner flag in what was clearly a “job done” gesture and Barnsley players had all accepted that - even if they indeed reacted more quickly when their guy tried it on. The ref was equally guilty in the second half when we were in their box and a defender cleared it wlldly under pressure from (I think) Alfie. The Barnsley players were already taking up positions for a corner. The ref gave a goal kick. I can accept refs making genuine mistakes when unsighted, and support tech help for them in those situations, but if a ref fails to use old proven techniques to help him make judgement calls, that is very poor.AdTheAddicK said:
I don't think that's conclusive at all.EveshamAddick said:
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Not seen anything that proves the ball was out. On that basis the blame for the goal can be layed squarely at the door of Dobson. Cruel injustice if it was out but he’ll learn from that.1
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Fact is the ball was out..it's irrelevant what side it was...🤷♂️Todds_right_hook said:Anyone questioning if the ball was out. Would your view change if it was a may shot and it was a Barnsley leg blocking the ball in the same position?2 -
Evidence ?eastterrace6168 said:
Fact is the ball was out..it's irrelevant what side it was...🤷♂️Todds_right_hook said:Anyone questioning if the ball was out. Would your view change if it was a may shot and it was a Barnsley leg blocking the ball in the same position?2 -
Do we really have to have a pile on on anybody?LargeAddick said:Still not seen any evidence to show the ball was definitely completely over the line so who is to say it was? Think back to the World Cup when everyone thought the ball was over the line when Japan scored but it wasn’t. Even if it was a bad decision so what? It happens. Maybe instead we should all be piling on CBT who if he’d crossed in the first half would have given Alfie a tap in. Easier to blame the ref though eh? Maybe he made a mistake but he’s only human. I’d rather refs making honest mistakes than VAR ruining games.2 -
Agreed, Dobson head is directly over the ball. He knew the ball was outDOUCHER said:
it is for me and was when watching on tv yesterday - case closed - officiating error - againAdTheAddicK said:
I don't think that's conclusive at all.EveshamAddick said:
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Plenty of pictorial evidence, obviously I wasn't sitting on the touch line with a camera, can't offer any more than that, and you know that...so the question is immaterial reallyShootersHillGuru said:
Evidence ?eastterrace6168 said:
Fact is the ball was out..it's irrelevant what side it was...🤷♂️Todds_right_hook said:Anyone questioning if the ball was out. Would your view change if it was a may shot and it was a Barnsley leg blocking the ball in the same position?
Thing is, what made the ref say it was in, even Brownie said it was out...ain't that enough...🙄1 -
In league 1 with no VAR and a linesman 50 yards away that's out every day. Dobson looking directly over the ball very clearly saw it as so. It's irrelevant what the VAR analysis would have determined, because we don't have it.
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