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Next Manager?
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I'm really not convinced that this is a conventional ownership model. By that I mean a group of investors actively went out and looked for a football club and acquired it and then hired the people they needed to run it.alburyaddick said:If the Americans are properly pulling the strings ( and presumably they are because they are providing the funding) then Appleton has already had it. They have a much quicker hire and fire culture.
I know it would be more preferable for the ground to be part of the club again but I don’t buy the argument that it’s necessary to make progress again. It’s a dead costly asset ( liability) and the most sensible route like commercial planes or ships is a sale & leaseback
i know Airman and others who saw the prospectus that the owners bought into thought it was a work of fiction - well as someone who works in Private Equity, I can tell you that most prospectus that I review could be termed a work of fiction/ triumph of hope over expectation. It’s just a question of degree.
The Americans will have gone into this with their eyes open and like every owner before them they Will eventually decide to pull the plug on the money drain , its just a question of how long they are prepared to lose money for. Let’s hope we get some fun before the money runs out again !
I think it was the other way round. The people that wanted to run the club day to day (Methven and the other bloke) went out and found the investors..
They have convinced a group of people that it is possible to successfully move a club up through the leagues with a fairly low ( to their standards) investment requirement. They are that good!
Friedman and Brener are not silly people. So I'm pretty sure if their initial investment turns to shit they won't be the ones left carrying the baby. This deal will be claused up to the eyeballs to limit their exposure and probably allows them to walk away Scott free.
No. the baby will be left in the loving hands of Methven and the other bloke. And the club will enter levels of fu*kwittery even we have yet to see!
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I think Charlton are a laughing stock within the football industry itself. Owners, managers, agents and players will all be aware of what’s happened to us over the last ten years. Now of course agents and some players won’t give a fig if it suits their careers and bank balances but managers will be more than wary in getting involved. Why would you when you know you’re not getting supported or given time to implement what you want. Since Curbishley we’ve become a managers graveyard. We had years of being a model club but that reputation has been trashed. It’ll take another ten years of sense and stability to repair that damage. Currently we’re still miles off either. At some point soon we either have to get very lucky or move heaven and earth to get in a managerial talent and give them time and some money. Anything less and the future is bleak. Fwiw. I think Appleton isn’t the man but he does at least need to be given until next November, for the reasons above. I agree though it’s likely he’ll fail and be replaced. People often comment that even Pep couldn’t do better with the players we have but I don’t believe that. I’d rather we spend the next blob of money on getting in a successful and expensive manager than another raft of second rate players. Get the manager right first and then support him to the maximum you can.Baldybonce said:ShootersHillGuru said:Charlton are already a laughing stock and replacing yet another manager after ten minutes will add to the laughter. Who of any note do you seriously think would entertain coming to work at our three ring circus ? In the knowledge that you can’t polish a turd. At some point we’ve got to support a manager in the transfer market and give him time to get things how he wants things. I’ll make a judgement on Appleton next November and then only based on who he’s allowed to bring in.A laughing stock to who though? Other than a few spanners i don't think anyone else is interested in what happens to us.The managerial merry go round will spew up someone happy to take on the job knowing full well they'll get a good pay off when it's their turn for the chop.I reckon we have Appleton to the end of the season so it's up to him to sort things out.3 -
Without transfer windows as well. With a clause in the contract stating that if a manger inherits a squad to play a different system and hasn't signed a single player of his choosing and doesn't finish top 8 he should be sacked......oh wait!!!ElfsborgAddick said:
So perhaps we should give managers half season roll on contracts?!Chunes said:
How many games have we won?sam3110 said:Everything that's wrong with modern football fans in a thread.
We've lost 3 games under Appleton.
THREE.
In 16(?) Games.
We lost more than that in the first 5 games of the season FFS.
And if he was sacked, what message does that send out about the new owners? You think that would lead to managers of a decent quality queuing out the door wanting to work with them?
If that was Chris Powell most of you would be clamouring to "give him time", "he hasn't had a proper window to sort out his team yet", "at least he's movednus away from the relegation places".
It's pathetic, some of our fans are so deluded it's unreal
Let's not accept mediocrity. We want to get promoted from this league, which involves winning. We have not strung two back-to-back league wins in the sixteen L1 games he's been here.1 -
What is the definition of 'decent owner'?hoof_it_up_to_benty said:We need decent owners.
Should it be like Ryan & Rob's laugh-in down at Wrexham, where they flood a squad with players from a league or two above. Or Ipswich, funded by a hedge / pension fund to the tune of £100m or whatever is guesstimated. For the very small amount of those owners, there are bucket loads of ours, with insufficient money or interest to match Ryan & Rob.
Appleton is and was not a choice backed by fans, including myself, but I desperately want him to succeed.
It's up to the owners, as Browny said yesterday, it's one or the other, multi-millions spent now, or slow build over 3-4 windows. I can hear many on here saying a slow burn will be accepted.
Regardless of Appleton's tenure, I fear protests will swiftly follow if January is not a success on and off the pitch.2 -
Totally agree. Yes, we do need to stick with a boss and yes sacking managers isn’t the way to success. But neither is Michael Appleton at Charlton. It’s the wrong fit and has been from day one. It just isn’t going to work imo.golfaddick said:My view is that if you give Appleton the next 2 transfer windows we will be in a worse situation than we are in now.
No idea who should be manager or when.....but imo Appleton is not the man to lead us going forward.
Just my tuppence worth.3 -
But they don't grow on trees. Apples do 🙄hoof_it_up_to_benty said:We need decent owners.1 -
Give the job to Pearce, he’s used to training and managing kids. He also knows what a defence should look like and do and he knows what a Captain should be doing -imo, it’s not a responsibility we should be dumping on Dobbo1
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pretty much nailed itNabySarr said:I know some may think it looks ridiculous to sack a manager who has only lost 3 games, but we have been terrible for at least a month now and Appleton keeps making the same mistakes and baffling team selections each week.
He is obsessed with 4-2-3-1 even though we don’t really have the players for it. Even with that formation, May was scoring every game in the 10, but recently he’s either played out wide or on his own up front, and he’s barely getting chances let alone scoring like he was before. Appleton continues to do it each game though?
He’s also obsessed with playing strikers on the wing, first it was Leaburn, then it was Tedic, then May and now Kanu. Chem Campbell is a winger and is playing centrally with May or Kanu on the wing, it is just baffling.
Then we have Louie Watson. Every game Appleton has won, Louie Watson has started in midfield!!! Fraser has started loads recently, the only game we won was when Watson started also. We haven’t won a game where it’s been Dobson and Fraser as a 2, but again Appleton continues to do it every game?
Apart from the Wigan game, look at the games we have won. Home games against 17th, 20th, 21st and 22nd. With Aneke/Leaburn fit, Holden or any manager would have won games against those sides just as easily. Were those wins down to anything Appleton was doing, or was it just having that quality of attacking threat on the pitch?
All fans agree we need to give a manager time, but we need to give a GOOD manager time. And Appleton is showing very little evidence of being that. Even when he gets the players he wants, what is he going to do with May? We should be building around our best player, not using him to accommodate our other players. We should be rebuilding around May for 3-5-2, Blackett-Taylor will be gone at some point which will make it the best set up for our squad anyway, get Michael Duff in and build for next season
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L0rd_M0ntagu3 said:
I’d be keen on Michael Duff. Not sure the fans would get on with his preferred use of the 352 thoNabySarr said:
Fair enough maybe not Rowett then.L0rd_M0ntagu3 said:
Part of the reason Rowett left “the small club up the road”, was because he no longer wanted to commute from the midlands.NabySarr said:There’s no way Eustace or Mowbray would drop to league 1, they will easily get decent championship jobs
Michael Duff would be my first choice. Failing that then maybe Gary Rowett would be more likely to drop down than those first 2 as he’s probably settled down here and played for us.Based on this regimes last 2 appointments though, there would have to be a serious change in ambition to get one of thoseIf we have some ambition then Michael Duff or Alex Neill from the unemployed list.Maybe go for giving a chance to a highly rated coach (worked for Pompey/Leicester/Plymouth recently), Ryan Mason or someone like that
Or to try and unite the fans, Bowyer, Euell (would also fit highly rated coach)
The best teams constantly have flexibility during a match with the likes of Trent Alexander playing midfield or inverted full back when Liverpool are dominating a game and only becomes a defensive full back when out of possession or defending set pieces.
I was/am a supporter of two strikers either working in tandem or check out how the 3 front men at West Ham interchange with the likes of Bowen, Kudus and magic feet Paquetá.
That's at the elite level and unfortunately that is light years from where cafc are at.
Next manager, who and whenever that will be will have the same problems as Adkins,Jackson, Garner, Holden and Appleton, that getting blood from a stone is nigh on impossible unless the players incoming are robust, Athletic and with the potential to be Championship players.
The constant inability of Aneke to stay fit and Young Leaburn having a stop, start career so far halts any momentum to be built. Camará and Taylor's injuries, limited the midfield options and the defence have only managed 3 clean sheets all season.
The managers job at Cafc has become a poisoned chalice over the last decade (Maybe since Murray part 2 of his tenure) and no clear sign of that changing.
In a results business, Cafc have a soft centre and Andy Scott just needs to find a solution with incomings and outgoings.
The natives are restless and Charlton Athletic are cemented as a mid table 3rd tier club.
We need the bar to be raised as even limbo dancers are struggling to get underneath the low set Charlton Athletic obstacle.
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You would be happy to sack a manager who hasn't had a transfer window or a chance to mould a squad into the way he wants to play, a manager who has managed a team to at this level to a play off final for a guy who has 2 managerial games under his belt and virtually zero experience coaching mens football?letthegoodtimesroll said:Give the job to Pearce, he’s used to training and managing kids. He also knows what a defence should look like and do and he knows what a Captain should be doing -imo, it’s not a responsibility we should be dumping on Dobbo3 -
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Now, what's that saying ?
Ah yes.
" A fish rots from the head downwards "...
And regarding bringing in a former Charlton man, has no-one mentioned Nathan Jones ?1 -
nope, he's been gone too longFanny Fanackapan said:Now, what's that saying ?
Ah yes.
" A fish rots from the head downwards "...
And regarding bringing in a former Charlton man, has no-one mentioned Nathan Jones ?
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Ba da bingLargeAddick said:
nope, he's been gone too longFanny Fanackapan said:Now, what's that saying ?
Ah yes.
" A fish rots from the head downwards "...
And regarding bringing in a former Charlton man, has no-one mentioned Nathan Jones ?0 -
When you only have 14 fit senior players, it kind of picks itself. But, who knows really?SporadicAddick said:
So Andy Scott, not Michael Appleton, is picking the team?Cloudworm said:Appleton should be given at least until the end of the season. Ridiculous to suggest otherwise.
He's a head coach, not a manager. Andy Scott is manager. Same as Harry Rednapp was or Sam Alladyce. They didn't coach much. Just bought players and picked the team. They left the day to day to Appleton types. Difference is now Scott has insulated himself, as manager, by associating himself with board level, rather than pitch level - yet he's the one buying and selling the players.
Maybe we should be questioning the structure and job titles before we start calling for people to lose their jobs?1 -
Yep I would!! Don't think Pearce is suitable or ready yet, BUT no-one could be any worse than Appleton. How the hell did the SMT come to the decision to appoint him. Yet another manager of yesteryear. Just like Adkins, Holden. When will we learn. Andy Scott can fuck off too.Todds_right_hook said:
You would be happy to sack a manager who hasn't had a transfer window or a chance to mould a squad into the way he wants to play, a manager who has managed a team to at this level to a play off final for a guy who has 2 managerial games under his belt and virtually zero experience coaching mens football?letthegoodtimesroll said:Give the job to Pearce, he’s used to training and managing kids. He also knows what a defence should look like and do and he knows what a Captain should be doing -imo, it’s not a responsibility we should be dumping on Dobbo4 -
Statistics show that Holden and garner were both worse than Appleton, with Jackson being on a par.Melrose said:
Yep I would!! Don't think Pearce is suitable or ready yet, BUT no-one could be any worse than Appleton. How the hell did the SMT come to the decision to appoint him. Yet another manager of yesteryear. Just like Adkins, Holden. When will we learn. Andy Scott can fuck off too.Todds_right_hook said:
You would be happy to sack a manager who hasn't had a transfer window or a chance to mould a squad into the way he wants to play, a manager who has managed a team to at this level to a play off final for a guy who has 2 managerial games under his belt and virtually zero experience coaching mens football?letthegoodtimesroll said:Give the job to Pearce, he’s used to training and managing kids. He also knows what a defence should look like and do and he knows what a Captain should be doing -imo, it’s not a responsibility we should be dumping on Dobbo
I said at the time that Appleton should not have got the job and I'm not going to change that view now.The only way I'm defending the guy is by saying you can't bring him in after one transfer window and sack him a couple of days before the next one opens. He has only lost 3 games and should be given a transfer window and the rest of the season as a minimum. Look how badly Bolton started in L2 after appointing their current manager and look where they are now.Appleton wrongly got the job but it would be counter productive to sack him now. Targets would have been identified, what if the next manager doesn't want those players? Back to square 1 again.3 -
Dean Holden anyone?
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It doesn’t matter who is picking the team.Successive seasons of failed player recruitment has led to this situation.1
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I find it laughable that some fans firstly rated Holden and secondly, want him back.Scoham said:Dean Holden anyone?He was an expert at getting fans on side, but truly poor manager.8 -
‘Not having had a transfer window etc’ is just an excuse. The teams we put out look like they don’t know where they should be or what they should be doing, we can’t even organise getting free kicks or corners right, and that’s just taking them.Todds_right_hook said:
You would be happy to sack a manager who hasn't had a transfer window or a chance to mould a squad into the way he wants to play, a manager who has managed a team to at this level to a play off final for a guy who has 2 managerial games under his belt and virtually zero experience coaching mens football?letthegoodtimesroll said:Give the job to Pearce, he’s used to training and managing kids. He also knows what a defence should look like and do and he knows what a Captain should be doing -imo, it’s not a responsibility we should be dumping on Dobbo
what you say about Pearce is right but from the stands what he seemed to have done for his two games was to look at who was available, what they were capable of and then sent them out with a gameplan they all understood and with a belief they could do it.4 -
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Appleton is attempting to manage a side that has no hold-up forward, one physical-ish midfielder and wide players who, charitably speaking, don't get involved much. He also has wet blankets at full-back. What can he do? He set us up with a shape; beyond that, what could he have done with our available resources yesterday? (Hector in midfield and Thomas/Jones at CB would have been my shout tbh, but I am not a manager!)0
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If you’re talking about ex players, I’d rather have Bowyer. He wasn’t perfect, and he was lucky with loans, but he led us the playoff final and promotion.3
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Bowyer fell apart spectacularly in his last season, not just with bullying little Jonny Williams but also more importantly on the field. What would happen with him and the current crop doesn't bear thinking about. Campbells and Watsons in tears everywhere6
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Poor players, poor results. Improve the quality of the players and improve the results. Get in a quality manager and stand a chance of getting promoted. Can’t do that on the cheap though.3
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Just feel like yesterday was just like how Holden set up his team before being sacked.Playing players in the wrong position and when it’s clearly going wrong not making any subs. Is this the managers trying to prove a point to the board? Maybe or they’re just both awful managers0
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If all our managers are going to be crap under our succession of failed ownership models/experiments, then I personally wish we had kept Holden because he was at least humane and likeable.2
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You have a point Todd. I'm just venting my spleen cos we are in a right mess yet again. You can't expect adults to shell out £25 for a ticket and extra expenses for the absolute rubbish being doled out. Things have to change. I'm just don't think Appleton should be entrusted to turn things around. We shall see 🙂Todds_right_hook said:
Statistics show that Holden and garner were both worse than Appleton, with Jackson being on a par.Melrose said:
Yep I would!! Don't think Pearce is suitable or ready yet, BUT no-one could be any worse than Appleton. How the hell did the SMT come to the decision to appoint him. Yet another manager of yesteryear. Just like Adkins, Holden. When will we learn. Andy Scott can fuck off too.Todds_right_hook said:
You would be happy to sack a manager who hasn't had a transfer window or a chance to mould a squad into the way he wants to play, a manager who has managed a team to at this level to a play off final for a guy who has 2 managerial games under his belt and virtually zero experience coaching mens football?letthegoodtimesroll said:Give the job to Pearce, he’s used to training and managing kids. He also knows what a defence should look like and do and he knows what a Captain should be doing -imo, it’s not a responsibility we should be dumping on Dobbo
I said at the time that Appleton should not have got the job and I'm not going to change that view now.The only way I'm defending the guy is by saying you can't bring him in after one transfer window and sack him a couple of days before the next one opens. He has only lost 3 games and should be given a transfer window and the rest of the season as a minimum. Look how badly Bolton started in L2 after appointing their current manager and look where they are now.Appleton wrongly got the job but it would be counter productive to sack him now. Targets would have been identified, what if the next manager doesn't want those players? Back to square 1 again.2 -
You are not wrong either. I agree that things have to change and the way I see things changing is by backing the manager and letting him bring his players in during January.Melrose said:
You have a point Todd. I'm just venting my spleen cos we are in a right mess yet again. You can't expect adults to shell out £25 for a ticket and extra expenses for the absolute rubbish being doled out. Things have to change. I'm just don't think Appleton should be entrusted to turn things around. We shall see 🙂Todds_right_hook said:
Statistics show that Holden and garner were both worse than Appleton, with Jackson being on a par.Melrose said:
Yep I would!! Don't think Pearce is suitable or ready yet, BUT no-one could be any worse than Appleton. How the hell did the SMT come to the decision to appoint him. Yet another manager of yesteryear. Just like Adkins, Holden. When will we learn. Andy Scott can fuck off too.Todds_right_hook said:
You would be happy to sack a manager who hasn't had a transfer window or a chance to mould a squad into the way he wants to play, a manager who has managed a team to at this level to a play off final for a guy who has 2 managerial games under his belt and virtually zero experience coaching mens football?letthegoodtimesroll said:Give the job to Pearce, he’s used to training and managing kids. He also knows what a defence should look like and do and he knows what a Captain should be doing -imo, it’s not a responsibility we should be dumping on Dobbo
I said at the time that Appleton should not have got the job and I'm not going to change that view now.The only way I'm defending the guy is by saying you can't bring him in after one transfer window and sack him a couple of days before the next one opens. He has only lost 3 games and should be given a transfer window and the rest of the season as a minimum. Look how badly Bolton started in L2 after appointing their current manager and look where they are now.Appleton wrongly got the job but it would be counter productive to sack him now. Targets would have been identified, what if the next manager doesn't want those players? Back to square 1 again.
i don't think we have time to bring in someone else now as manager and have a good window. I think we are rolling the dice and hoping either way
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I know Ben, it’s a wind upL0rd_M0ntagu3 said:
I find it laughable that some fans firstly rated Holden and secondly, want him back.Scoham said:Dean Holden anyone?He was an expert at getting fans on side, but truly poor manager.0
