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Roland - another statement (12/8/2019)
Comments
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Solidgone said:
Really? You are very sensitive to any criticism about CAST and there lies a possible issue. If you read my post in its entirety I.e the sentence that follows on from the sentence you highlighted then you might have noticed it was tongue in cheek comment. 🤓PragueAddick said:
Really? Let's just remind ourselves that we are talking about people, with unverified identities, writing things like "CARD and CAST are a bunch of self-serving ****s". Well, you could just about make your case if "CARD and CAST" were political parties in power, or alternatively the management of organisations we depend on like South Eastern Trains. But they are not, are they. They are just fans, like you and I, and the bloke (they are always blokes) who wrote such a post. In the case of CAST, you certainly can easily have a dialogue with board members, if you too are a member of CAST. But on Facebook you don't even know the identity of the person posting. Anyway, how would it work, what you propose? You send a message to the poster saying, what, "Hello I'm interested in finding out why you posted what you did about CAST, would you like to meet me at the Swan for a pint to discuss it?" Really? Why should CAST people be expected to do this, for a person who hasn't even joined? Why would anyone ever volunteer to help run CAST if they thought that is what is expected of them? Don't you think that respect is something that has to be earned, rather than demanding it anonymously on Facebook with foul incoherent rants, and sometimes threats of violence against fellow Charlton fans?Solidgone said:
Somewhat patronising. If you don’t agree with me you must be pre-pubescent etc. You may not like them but they are Charlton supporters and entitled to their opinion. And CAST and CARD should not ignore them but find out why and what they can offer. If that doesn’t help them to understand our stance against RD then then fuck em all! 🙃addick05 said:Rudders22 said:Wether you like Rick Everitt or not you can't deny the facts in his article. Thanks for enlighten us. Although not a member of CARD I do understand their position and I agree with the protests, providing they are legal. It really annoys me that all those youngsters on FB are slagging of FB and are hoodwinked by RD that if they knew thier history, if it wasn't for people like Rick Everitt, Richard Hunt, all the people that posted leaflets during that campaign to get CAFC back to Valley then CAFC wouldn't exists and those youngsters would not be supporting CAFC. Has the protests had any success? I would argue definetly yes, Apart from WINNING on a protest it stopped RD operating in the way he had been. Meire has gone, and we have now the best management system we have had since the Curb days. He has got there by luck. RD didn't initially employ him. It was Robinson that brought him in and he was Robbo's assistant. Bowyer was his natural successor. Although we didn't know it at the time Bowyer was in the right place at the right time. Rd didn't bring in Gallen. Was it Robinson? For someone spending less than 2% of his time on us, he seems to like reading all the forums and messageboards and can't help himself. Everytime the team is doing well up pipes RD, look at me, look what I have achieved? No you haven't. We have lost players such as Aribo, AD, Baeur etc because you have not offered them the going rate for a Championship player. For the record Bowyer, Gallen and co are working wonders with a low budget. The ironic thing is now although he is too blind to see it is for him to have a go at getting in the premier league. Give Bowyer the financial backing he deserves and watch him go and get you promotion to the Premier League. Then you will be remembered at the end of your tenure as the man that got us to the Premier League. He will get more more for the club, he can walk away. Rather than insulting and having digs at people and getting his facts wrong.
I've seen some of those posts and am appalled - but not surprised. Have come to the rapid conclusion that most of those (but not all surprisingly) posting are of the pre-pubescent Love Island / Big Brother generation. Any paragraph with more than 10 words in and they're fooked. I suppose every club has its share. Nevertheless, its still disappointing that these morons seem to have little idea of the effort made by worthy people to help save our club from the machinations of an egotistical psychopath. Those involved with CARD and CAST must ignore these dumb people and keep up the good work.
I did of course read your post in entirety, but could not square your last sentence with the rest of it where you criticised @Addick05 post, which i thought made some good points.
And yeah. I am sensitive to unwarranted criticism about CAST, especially from people who just gob off on social media. It's one reason why I stood down after 6 years. And if you talk to people who served in Trusts across the league, they will tell you much worse stories. Ties in with what I said earlier about Facebook in particular, as a channel that purports to represent the voices of ordinary people. If you already understand its weaknesses then I'm sorry to have taken issue with you, but I really was not sure, since there are a lot of people going round saying " 'you' have to listen to 'these people' ", and i am not just talking about Charlton. Like I said, respect for one's opinions has to be earned.
And you still talk about a "possible issue". OK then, tell us how CAST, or any such group should address the issue, in your opinion.
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Don't really know what thread to continue the conversation on from the last match thread.
I know it's an unpopular opinion and when people invest so much, emotionally, in a position it makes it so hard to change that opinion. However, it seems to me that the ONLY way to get out of the situation we are in is to reunify the club with the real estate.
Roland still owns the only part of the club worth anything - land. Could CAST start building bridges? Time to swallow pride...?10 -
Building bridges won’t buy the ground. If you have a spare £30million and don’t mind giving it up for no return in order to reunite club and ground, I would fully support you.
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That's the point though, nobody has the money, so it seems logical to bring the ground back into the fold if possible.1
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We will never be successful whilst he owns us.4
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People do have the money, but it’s not a good use of it because the owner has overvalued the land. He is seemingly happy to sit on his asset and take a rent from the tenant. At some point, the tenant has to make a choice as to whether they renew, or choose not to renew.Cloudworm said:That's the point though, nobody has the money, so it seems logical to bring the ground back into the fold if possible.
That’s the situation that underpins the short and mid term future for CAFC.3 -
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Of course he doesn't! What a strange thing to post.SporadicAddick said:
He may have a major say in our future still, because he still owns the land, but he doesn't own the club.0 -
The only feasible route out of this mire might be to build bridges with the landlord. Wait for the current lot to fuck up and fuck off. Landlord comes back to satiate his ego and prove a point. Gets us promoted through gritted teeth. Sells us to a proper investor who has the capital to buy lock, stock and ground.Off_it said:
And how are you doing that exactly?Cloudworm said:That's the point though, nobody has the money, so it seems logical to bring the ground back into the fold if possible.
What's the alternative?6 -
So, let me get this right, you want to "build bridges" with Uncle Roland to try to persuade him to buy the club back, spend money to get us promoted and then sell us again. Is that right?Cloudworm said:
The only feasible route out of this mire might be to build bridges with the landlord. Wait for the current lot to fuck up and fuck off. Landlord comes back to satiate his ego and prove a point. Gets us promoted through gritted teeth. Sells us to a proper investor who has the capital to buy lock, stock and ground.Off_it said:
And how are you doing that exactly?Cloudworm said:That's the point though, nobody has the money, so it seems logical to bring the ground back into the fold if possible.
What's the alternative?14 -
Thing is, we’ve already done the “promotion through gritted teeth” under Roland. That was in 2019. And because by then he hated the club and the fans and Bowyer, he didn’t spend the money that was needed to avoid relegation in 19/20. That was the time to stabilise and when Roland might have got more like his asking price for the club.9
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Yes! I know.... but the more I think about it the more crucial the issue with The Valley and Sparrows is. As long as they are separate we will continue to be a bargain bin play thing for wannabe dickheads and 3% stakeholders from Bumfuck, Missouri. I can't see a way out other than a very politically brokered deal with the landlord.Off_it said:
So, let me get this right, you want to "build bridges" with Uncle Roland to try to persuade him to buy the club back, spend money to get us promoted and then sell us again. Is that right?Cloudworm said:
The only feasible route out of this mire might be to build bridges with the landlord. Wait for the current lot to fuck up and fuck off. Landlord comes back to satiate his ego and prove a point. Gets us promoted through gritted teeth. Sells us to a proper investor who has the capital to buy lock, stock and ground.Off_it said:
And how are you doing that exactly?Cloudworm said:That's the point though, nobody has the money, so it seems logical to bring the ground back into the fold if possible.
What's the alternative?
Stranger things have happened in the world....I think.0 -
All the whilst Dushitelet owns the land we are in trouble, ulitmately we'll not be playing home games at The Valley, of that I am sure.
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And this is the problem with Charlton fansCloudworm said:
The only feasible route out of this mire might be to build bridges with the landlord. Wait for the current lot to fuck up and fuck off. Landlord comes back to satiate his ego and prove a point. Gets us promoted through gritted teeth. Sells us to a proper investor who has the capital to buy lock, stock and ground.Off_it said:
And how are you doing that exactly?Cloudworm said:That's the point though, nobody has the money, so it seems logical to bring the ground back into the fold if possible.
What's the alternative?
The new owners have been here barely a few months and already you got people saying wait for them the fuck up and fuck off.
Was the same on twitter they took over and within a few weeks because they didn't spend millions in the window you had people saying oh another false dawn, another broke ownership when in reality why would they put millions on transfers within weeks of taken over, ofcourse they wanted to see what we had first and how it went before they did anything drastic.
Give them a chance FFS
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I don't disagree that reuniting the ground and club are important but you are way off if you expect that will happen if CAST or any fan groups build bridges.Cloudworm said:
Yes! I know.... but the more I think about it the more crucial the issue with The Valley and Sparrows is. As long as they are separate we will continue to be a bargain bin play thing for wannabe dickheads and 3% stakeholders from Bumfuck, Missouri. I can't see a way out other than a very politically brokered deal with the landlord.Off_it said:
So, let me get this right, you want to "build bridges" with Uncle Roland to try to persuade him to buy the club back, spend money to get us promoted and then sell us again. Is that right?Cloudworm said:
The only feasible route out of this mire might be to build bridges with the landlord. Wait for the current lot to fuck up and fuck off. Landlord comes back to satiate his ego and prove a point. Gets us promoted through gritted teeth. Sells us to a proper investor who has the capital to buy lock, stock and ground.Off_it said:
And how are you doing that exactly?Cloudworm said:That's the point though, nobody has the money, so it seems logical to bring the ground back into the fold if possible.
What's the alternative?
Stranger things have happened in the world....I think.
It's down to Duchatelet, and to a degree Southall, that asking price is set so ridiculously high, not the fans.
The building relationships approach is the mantra used by the current owners although what that actually means in terms of actual work or timescales is not known.
We do know that Duchatelet's daughter was shown around the Valley by Rodwell and Warwick earlier in the season (I met her during the tour) so maybe that process has started.
And statements like "dickheads" and "bumfuck, Missouri" isn't exactly "building bridges" with the current owners either.
The beneficial owners could easily afford the £50m inflated asking price but don't, if we believe the management team, see it as a priority. I disagree but I'm a fan and it's not my £50m.
Roland created this current clusterf*** through his mismanagement and sale to crooks.
He is the problem not the solution.
We can only hope that his heirs are less belligerent and more able to see sense over the price and that the current owners realise the advantages, financial, operational and emotional, of owning the Valley and Sparrows Lane sooner rather than later.
In the meantime, we have a lot more pressing problems with the team, management and quite possibly with the management and funding of the club.
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Supporters are allowed to express their opinions on how the owners are running the club. If they cannot handle the mild form of criticism they are currently getting them they really are out of their depthpaulie8290 said:
And this is the problem with Charlton fansCloudworm said:
The only feasible route out of this mire might be to build bridges with the landlord. Wait for the current lot to fuck up and fuck off. Landlord comes back to satiate his ego and prove a point. Gets us promoted through gritted teeth. Sells us to a proper investor who has the capital to buy lock, stock and ground.Off_it said:
And how are you doing that exactly?Cloudworm said:That's the point though, nobody has the money, so it seems logical to bring the ground back into the fold if possible.
What's the alternative?
The new owners have been here barely a few months and already you got people saying wait for them the fuck up and fuck off.
Was the same on twitter they took over and within a few weeks because they didn't spend millions in the window you had people saying oh another false dawn, another broke ownership when in reality why would they put millions on transfers within weeks of taken over, ofcourse they wanted to see what we had first and how it went before they did anything drastic.
Give them a chance FFS3 -
Thing is though, didn’t the current lot pay about the same as Duchatelet did, but without the ground and a division lower.Cloudworm said:
Yes! I know.... but the more I think about it the more crucial the issue with The Valley and Sparrows is. As long as they are separate we will continue to be a bargain bin play thing for wannabe dickheads and 3% stakeholders from Bumfuck, Missouri. I can't see a way out other than a very politically brokered deal with the landlord.Off_it said:
So, let me get this right, you want to "build bridges" with Uncle Roland to try to persuade him to buy the club back, spend money to get us promoted and then sell us again. Is that right?Cloudworm said:
The only feasible route out of this mire might be to build bridges with the landlord. Wait for the current lot to fuck up and fuck off. Landlord comes back to satiate his ego and prove a point. Gets us promoted through gritted teeth. Sells us to a proper investor who has the capital to buy lock, stock and ground.Off_it said:
And how are you doing that exactly?Cloudworm said:That's the point though, nobody has the money, so it seems logical to bring the ground back into the fold if possible.
What's the alternative?
Stranger things have happened in the world....I think.On that measure it’s not a bargain.That isn’t to say they are good owners (or at least ‘managers’) and there are posters on here, likely to be in the know, who view them as not competent or worse. I guess we will all be able to make a clearer judgement on that in the relatively near future.
I’m not so sure reuniting the club and ground is as important, or at least urgent, as others do. There are many successful property dependent businesses that don’t own their buildings. In fact I was with an entertainment company the other day who was asked why don’t you buy buildings, and the response was that’s a waste of our limited capital.I think the same is true for CAFC at the moment. Investment is better targeted at improving the operational performance and capacity of the club, especially while the property remains so over valued by its owner.
I do agree that ultimately the Valley (which is looking tired) will need to come back and be invested in if we are to return to premier league challenging levels of success.
But that’s at best a medium term ‘problem’ as things stand.2 -
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Oh Lordy, not this old chestnut again.
Saying this most kindly @Cloudworm, you need to educate yourself a bit more before opening up this can of worms. I'm sure there are countless articles & reams of threads on here about our ownership over the past 12 years or so.
The main problem is that Roland wants too much money for the "assets" (The Valley & Sparrows Lane). Or seemingly, he wants more than people are willing to pay him.
Other clubs are successful not owning their "ground". West Ham being one of them. You just need a good manager & a host of decent players. Currently we have neither. Change THAT dynamic & I'm sure the ownership issue wont be.... erm, an issue.
EDIT
I just checked when you joined here. 29th Dec 2019. Almost to the day that ESI took over.
I smell a big rat.
I'm out.
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Build bridges, what on earth does that mean? Send him a Christmas card, blame the club's troubles on the fans, tell him we'd vote for Vivant if they stood in the UK, recommend a good dentist? It doesn't matter what we do, it's not going to make the slightest difference to the man with the ego. He has an over-inflated opinion of the ground's value and no amount of crawling around him is going to change that. Sadly, he doesn't need the money we we just have to wait until he gets bored or pegs it. Anything else is madness.Cloudworm said:Don't really know what thread to continue the conversation on from the last match thread.
I know it's an unpopular opinion and when people invest so much, emotionally, in a position it makes it so hard to change that opinion. However, it seems to me that the ONLY way to get out of the situation we are in is to reunify the club with the real estate.
Roland still owns the only part of the club worth anything - land. Could CAST start building bridges? Time to swallow pride...?3 -
I recommend a trip to Belgium with ‘ Roland In ‘banners. Airman could them maybe invite Roland to stay at his house for a week whilst the fine details get sorted outOff_it said:
So, let me get this right, you want to "build bridges" with Uncle Roland to try to persuade him to buy the club back, spend money to get us promoted and then sell us again. Is that right?Cloudworm said:
The only feasible route out of this mire might be to build bridges with the landlord. Wait for the current lot to fuck up and fuck off. Landlord comes back to satiate his ego and prove a point. Gets us promoted through gritted teeth. Sells us to a proper investor who has the capital to buy lock, stock and ground.Off_it said:
And how are you doing that exactly?Cloudworm said:That's the point though, nobody has the money, so it seems logical to bring the ground back into the fold if possible.
What's the alternative?9 -
I'd like some of what you're on, Cloud.Cloudworm said:
The only feasible route out of this mire might be to build bridges with the landlord. Wait for the current lot to fuck up and fuck off. Landlord comes back to satiate his ego and prove a point. Gets us promoted through gritted teeth. Sells us to a proper investor who has the capital to buy lock, stock and ground.Off_it said:
And how are you doing that exactly?Cloudworm said:That's the point though, nobody has the money, so it seems logical to bring the ground back into the fold if possible.
What's the alternative?
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Yes we need the Valley back under common ownership with the club, but in the meantime there's no reason why we can't be more successful on the pitch
Coventry have had even worse ground problems than us, and they're a decent Championship club.18 -
"the only feasible route" .......clb74 said:
I'd like some of what you're on, Cloud.Cloudworm said:
The only feasible route out of this mire might be to build bridges with the landlord. Wait for the current lot to fuck up and fuck off. Landlord comes back to satiate his ego and prove a point. Gets us promoted through gritted teeth. Sells us to a proper investor who has the capital to buy lock, stock and ground.Off_it said:
And how are you doing that exactly?Cloudworm said:That's the point though, nobody has the money, so it seems logical to bring the ground back into the fold if possible.
What's the alternative?0 -
Roland had an agreement to sell the club, including freeholds, for £34M, but got greedy when we won the playoff final at Wembley. In fact I’m sure he’d always believed he’d be inundated with higher offers (£50M+) once we were in the Championship.When that didn’t happen he ended up falling for Southall’s con trick, basically giving the club away on the promise that he’d receive his £50M for the freeholds within the year.But that unrealistic £50M figure is clearly still etched into his consciousness. So long as he’s receiving his £500k a year he seems content to sit on what he sees as an appreciating asset, while waiting for the £50M to drop into his lap. He’s deluded, of course, but has the wealth to sit and wait.Our only real hope is that with Charlton’s declining fortunes he or his heirs eventually accept a lower, more realistic offer.2
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whatever it is, he's had far too much of it.clb74 said:
I'd like some of what you're on, Cloud.Cloudworm said:
The only feasible route out of this mire might be to build bridges with the landlord. Wait for the current lot to fuck up and fuck off. Landlord comes back to satiate his ego and prove a point. Gets us promoted through gritted teeth. Sells us to a proper investor who has the capital to buy lock, stock and ground.Off_it said:
And how are you doing that exactly?Cloudworm said:That's the point though, nobody has the money, so it seems logical to bring the ground back into the fold if possible.
What's the alternative?0 -
That or the new owners are looking for a steer on how to sell upHal1x said:
whatever it is, he's had far too much of it.clb74 said:
I'd like some of what you're on, Cloud.Cloudworm said:
The only feasible route out of this mire might be to build bridges with the landlord. Wait for the current lot to fuck up and fuck off. Landlord comes back to satiate his ego and prove a point. Gets us promoted through gritted teeth. Sells us to a proper investor who has the capital to buy lock, stock and ground.Off_it said:
And how are you doing that exactly?Cloudworm said:That's the point though, nobody has the money, so it seems logical to bring the ground back into the fold if possible.
What's the alternative?0 -
JamesSeed said:Roland had an agreement to sell the club, including freeholds, for £34M, but got greedy when we won the playoff final at Wembley. In fact I’m sure he’d always believed he’d be inundated with higher offers (£50M+) once we were in the Championship.When that didn’t happen he ended up falling for Southall’s con trick, basically giving the club away on the promise that he’d receive his £50M for the freeholds within the year.But that unrealistic £50M figure is clearly still etched into his consciousness. So long as he’s receiving his £500k a year he seems content to sit on what he sees as an appreciating asset, while waiting for the £50M to drop into his lap. He’s deluded, of course, but has the wealth to sit and wait.Our only real hope is that with Charlton’s declining fortunes he or his heirs eventually accept a lower, more realistic offer.
Had he taken the money and invested it with a relatively simple 5% annual return he would now have c£41M and be in touching distance of his money back (at 9% growth pa - he would have his cash back).
Instead he has a couple of million of rent and an asset that in real value will have fallen whether looked at as a future development piece of land (values have collapsed in the last year), or a home for a hard up third division club. Not mention his £50M then would be about £62M today post inflation so the gap has widened.
He sits and makes 1% pa return on his cash.
Stubbornness = Stupidity in this instance.
What a missed opportunity for him and the club.5
