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The Dangers of a Cashless Society.
Comments
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Some interesting stuff here from a few years ago. (I think mainly gleaned from HMRC stats but presented in a readable way!)
https://www.patrickcannon.net/insights/uk-tax-evasion-statistics/
An extract on undeclared earnings: "London is home to the highest percentage of individuals who fail to declare an amount of their income, with 30.9% of them doing so. On average, residents of this region earn around £8,991 without paying tax."
I guess that's why so many people don't want to see it as a problem!1 -
The having the right bit wasn't aimed at you, although justifying the unjustifiable would have been aimed at you too to be fair.blackpool72 said:
If that's aimed at me I never said I had the right.Huskaris said:If you think that it's ok for you to be complicit in defrauding HMRC of revenue, you're part of the problem in this country.
If you think that "because rich people and big companies" avoid tax in this country you're deliberately trying to justify the unjustifiable with whataboutery.
I'd throw the book at all of them, and I'm glad so many of them struggled through COVID because they'd been defrauding HMRC for years when they'd been doing cash in hand work and under declaring.
It's not a victimless crime. I don't want to hear the opinions from anyone who evades tax on the state of the country, I'd even go so far as to say they should be stripped of the vote and the right to access public services. They're not a part of society as they have violated the social contract.
If everyone evaded tax the country would be completely fucked, so why do you have the right?
Left school at 16
Retired at 59.
43 years of working under the PAYE Tax system.
Never worked self employed in my lifetime.
There's no excuse for it.0 -
Have you ever been given a lift to an airport by a mate.Huskaris said:
The having the right bit wasn't aimed at you, although justifying the unjustifiable would have been aimed at you too to be fair.blackpool72 said:
If that's aimed at me I never said I had the right.Huskaris said:If you think that it's ok for you to be complicit in defrauding HMRC of revenue, you're part of the problem in this country.
If you think that "because rich people and big companies" avoid tax in this country you're deliberately trying to justify the unjustifiable with whataboutery.
I'd throw the book at all of them, and I'm glad so many of them struggled through COVID because they'd been defrauding HMRC for years when they'd been doing cash in hand work and under declaring.
It's not a victimless crime. I don't want to hear the opinions from anyone who evades tax on the state of the country, I'd even go so far as to say they should be stripped of the vote and the right to access public services. They're not a part of society as they have violated the social contract.
If everyone evaded tax the country would be completely fucked, so why do you have the right?
Left school at 16
Retired at 59.
43 years of working under the PAYE Tax system.
Never worked self employed in my lifetime.
There's no excuse for it.
Have you ever had a room decorated by a mate.
Have you ever had any sort of thing done by a mate.
If so did they declare whatever you paid them to the Tax it1 -
Wait until you hear about some doctors being cash only when you go for a quick medical the cheeky scamps stitching their own colleagues up.0
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I genuinely never even knew this was a thing.seth plum said:Cash is what you use if you don’t have technology.
A lot of people like me find navigating the technological landscape problematic.
Younger people will roll their eyes, say what we need to do is learn the technology and acquire the equipment, they declare it is no biggie and you ‘just’ do this or you ‘just’ do that.
There was some hope with the simplicity of Oyster Cards, but even having a credit card can be a pain.
Every time I enter my card details to pay £10 to Charlton TV for a stream Barclaycard oblige me to put the card in some god awful machine at home and do a dance with a series of numbers before approval.
Even when out and using my card on a machine, some demand you put the card in and remember your numbers, or hold it over the screen, but oh no you have to hover it the other way round, or the magnet or whatever it is can be found at the end of the machine not the flat surface.
Or you have to have some kind of telephone with an appliance to wave around.
This is even before we get to systems not functioning for some reason.
Leave cash alone, and let those of us who grew up with it continue to use it.
Don't you just approve the payment on your banking app, or by an OTP sent to your phone?1 -
I don't have such stuff on my telephone.0
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Isn't a better analogy using the hard shoulder to avoid a queue leaving a motorway? It's illegal to do so as is tax evasion.AFKABartram said:I suppose it’s a bit like those that queue patiently for half a mile in lane one to exit the next junction and those that think it don’t apply to them so they’ll middle lane right up to the junction and cut in infront of those that queue patiently.0 -
No to all of the above, but either way if they earned under £1k a year from a "side hustle" that's absolutely fine.blackpool72 said:
Have you ever been given a lift to an airport by a mate.Huskaris said:
The having the right bit wasn't aimed at you, although justifying the unjustifiable would have been aimed at you too to be fair.blackpool72 said:
If that's aimed at me I never said I had the right.Huskaris said:If you think that it's ok for you to be complicit in defrauding HMRC of revenue, you're part of the problem in this country.
If you think that "because rich people and big companies" avoid tax in this country you're deliberately trying to justify the unjustifiable with whataboutery.
I'd throw the book at all of them, and I'm glad so many of them struggled through COVID because they'd been defrauding HMRC for years when they'd been doing cash in hand work and under declaring.
It's not a victimless crime. I don't want to hear the opinions from anyone who evades tax on the state of the country, I'd even go so far as to say they should be stripped of the vote and the right to access public services. They're not a part of society as they have violated the social contract.
If everyone evaded tax the country would be completely fucked, so why do you have the right?
Left school at 16
Retired at 59.
43 years of working under the PAYE Tax system.
Never worked self employed in my lifetime.
There's no excuse for it.
Have you ever had a room decorated by a mate.
Have you ever had any sort of thing done by a mate.
If so did they declare whatever you paid them to the Tax it
Tax evasion is inexcusable. You won't be able to justify it to me I'm afraid.4 -
Thinking about visiting New York next year, so I looked up what the situation is regarding cash, thinking if we had to pay with a card everywhere accumulative charges might be massive. Turns out it's illegal to be card only in the Big Apple - good for them. Card companies apparently earn $130 billion(!) a year in charges.
https://www.cashmatters.org/blog/why-new-york-is-defending-cash
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Don't forget to declare what you bring back and pay your import taxes. ;-)Algarveaddick said:Thinking about visiting New York next year, so I looked up what the situation is regarding cash, thinking if we had to pay with a card everywhere accumulative charges might be massive. Turns out it's illegal to be card only in the Big Apple - good for them. Card companies apparently earn $130 billion(!) a year in charges.
https://www.cashmatters.org/blog/why-new-york-is-defending-cash1 - Sponsored links:
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Take a look at Starling if you can be bothered. Fairly certain you can open an account with them without being a UK tax payer. Free to use the card abroad.Algarveaddick said:Thinking about visiting New York next year, so I looked up what the situation is regarding cash, thinking if we had to pay with a card everywhere accumulative charges might be massive. Turns out it's illegal to be card only in the Big Apple - good for them. Card companies apparently earn $130 billion(!) a year in charges.
https://www.cashmatters.org/blog/why-new-york-is-defending-cash
Took one to Florida last year and was a big help for when not using cash.0 -
Two Hershie bars and a root beer, D.Off_it said:
Don't forget to declare what you bring back and pay your import taxes. ;-)Algarveaddick said:Thinking about visiting New York next year, so I looked up what the situation is regarding cash, thinking if we had to pay with a card everywhere accumulative charges might be massive. Turns out it's illegal to be card only in the Big Apple - good for them. Card companies apparently earn $130 billion(!) a year in charges.
https://www.cashmatters.org/blog/why-new-york-is-defending-cash1 -
Thank you for the heads up.cafcpolo said:
Take a look at Starling if you can be bothered. Fairly certain you can open an account with them without being a UK tax payer. Free to use the card abroad.Algarveaddick said:Thinking about visiting New York next year, so I looked up what the situation is regarding cash, thinking if we had to pay with a card everywhere accumulative charges might be massive. Turns out it's illegal to be card only in the Big Apple - good for them. Card companies apparently earn $130 billion(!) a year in charges.
https://www.cashmatters.org/blog/why-new-york-is-defending-cash
Took one to Florida last year and was a big help for when not using cash.0 -
Revolut are also goodAlgarveaddick said:
Thank you for the heads up.cafcpolo said:
Take a look at Starling if you can be bothered. Fairly certain you can open an account with them without being a UK tax payer. Free to use the card abroad.Algarveaddick said:Thinking about visiting New York next year, so I looked up what the situation is regarding cash, thinking if we had to pay with a card everywhere accumulative charges might be massive. Turns out it's illegal to be card only in the Big Apple - good for them. Card companies apparently earn $130 billion(!) a year in charges.
https://www.cashmatters.org/blog/why-new-york-is-defending-cash
Took one to Florida last year and was a big help for when not using cash.2 -
London is full of the Americans at the moment over for the new year and they have all brang plenty of the paper with them. So much so I was given an old £20 paper note yesterday 🤦♂️1
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Travel to the US regularly and never use cash. They kindly offer you the option of 15, 20 or 25 per cent tip option on all card transactions.4
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Had a few days away in Poland before Christmas. Took cash out there thinking I'd use it to get my wife's present and they may not all take cards in the market, etc. if she saw something she liked. Currency cost me £205 or thereabouts. Obviously, she declined all my suggested gifts as "not being quite what she was after" so I bought the lot back.
I expected to take a bit of a hit, fair enough, but the Post Office offered me £150 to buy it back! So I'm currently looking to offload it for somewhere in between.
Pretty much everywhere took cards anyway too. I won't be making that mistake again.
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If you use Sainsbury’s and a nectar card, I think they will exchange back at the same rate as you bought at.Bournemouth Addick said:Had a few days away in Poland before Christmas. Took cash out there thinking I'd use it to get my wife's present and they may not all take cards in the market, etc. if she saw something she liked. Currency cost me £205 or thereabouts. Obviously, she declined all my suggested gifts as "not being quite what she was after" so I bought the lot back.
I expected to take a bit of a hit, fair enough, but the Post Office offered me £150 to buy it back! So I'm currently looking to offload it for somewhere in between.
Pretty much everywhere took cards anyway too. I won't be making that mistake again.The last few trips we as as a family have made, Ireland, USA & Australia we have used Revolut, with no problems.0 -
I would say though that there is ultimately some smile time for those of us, who paid our taxes every month of our working life’s. Being a legitimate tax payer, made having a pension good sense. It’s the only way we could legally avoid paying tax.All the Cabbies an Trades I know who never declared great chunks of their earnings don’t have pensions. Not worth it for them.I’m retired and have a nice comfortable life. They are mid sixties and still working, and will be screwed when the can’t work anymore.3
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A few places here don't take that card, which is why I am a bit dubious.shine166 said:
Revolut are also goodAlgarveaddick said:
Thank you for the heads up.cafcpolo said:
Take a look at Starling if you can be bothered. Fairly certain you can open an account with them without being a UK tax payer. Free to use the card abroad.Algarveaddick said:Thinking about visiting New York next year, so I looked up what the situation is regarding cash, thinking if we had to pay with a card everywhere accumulative charges might be massive. Turns out it's illegal to be card only in the Big Apple - good for them. Card companies apparently earn $130 billion(!) a year in charges.
https://www.cashmatters.org/blog/why-new-york-is-defending-cash
Took one to Florida last year and was a big help for when not using cash.2 -
How much do you (roughly) end up paying the card company on each transaction, please, SA?SporadicAddick said:Travel to the US regularly and never use cash. They kindly offer you the option of 15, 20 or 25 per cent tip option on all card transactions.0 -
Recently here in CZ the banks have introduced “pay by phone” . Basically if someone is registered they can send/receive by tapping in the mobile number. The banks like it very much as it by-passes the card companies. The card companies dislike it very much. It would be handy e.g. when a group are out for the night and you want to settle up bar bills. The current limit per transaction is just under £200.
Just wondering if this has come to the UK yet, as nobody seems to have mentioned it.Re Revolut, do not leave any money there for any length of time. I’ve said it elsewhere, read up in the FT . Anyway, its Russian shit.0 -
My bank First Direct used to use PayM, where you could pay anyone who has their mobile linked to their bank account. First Direct stopped using this service during the year.PragueAddick said:Recently here in CZ the banks have introduced “pay by phone” . Basically if someone is registered they can send/receive by tapping in the mobile number. The banks like it very much as it by-passes the card companies. The card companies dislike it very much. It would be handy e.g. when a group are out for the night and you want to settle up bar bills. The current limit per transaction is just under £200.
Just wondering if this has come to the UK yet, as nobody seems to have mentioned it.Re Revolut, do not leave any money there for any length of time. I’ve said it elsewhere, read up in the FT . Anyway, it’s Russian shit.1 -
Yeah, I'm normally a bit more clued up tbh but it was a bit last minute and I never expected my wife to turn her nose up at pretty much every piece of jewellery in the city either. There were definitely fewer cash only places knocking around than in the last couple of times we've been there.guinnessaddick said:
If you use Sainsbury’s and a nectar card, I think they will exchange back at the same rate as you bought at.Bournemouth Addick said:Had a few days away in Poland before Christmas. Took cash out there thinking I'd use it to get my wife's present and they may not all take cards in the market, etc. if she saw something she liked. Currency cost me £205 or thereabouts. Obviously, she declined all my suggested gifts as "not being quite what she was after" so I bought the lot back.
I expected to take a bit of a hit, fair enough, but the Post Office offered me £150 to buy it back! So I'm currently looking to offload it for somewhere in between.
Pretty much everywhere took cards anyway too. I won't be making that mistake again.The last few trips we as as a family have made, Ireland, USA & Australia we have used Revolut, with no problems.0 -
Absolutely crazy. Was in Vegas a couple weeks back and the fact that tips on card machines in the back of a taxi came with a $3 charge and then when the prompt for a tip came up the minimum was 20%.... Absolute fucking joke.SporadicAddick said:Travel to the US regularly and never use cash. They kindly offer you the option of 15, 20 or 25 per cent tip option on all card transactions.
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Took out $400 at a cash machine the other day, through good luck I came back with $420.Bournemouth Addick said:Had a few days away in Poland before Christmas. Took cash out there thinking I'd use it to get my wife's present and they may not all take cards in the market, etc. if she saw something she liked. Currency cost me £205 or thereabouts. Obviously, she declined all my suggested gifts as "not being quite what she was after" so I bought the lot back.
I expected to take a bit of a hit, fair enough, but the Post Office offered me £150 to buy it back! So I'm currently looking to offload it for somewhere in between.
Pretty much everywhere took cards anyway too. I won't be making that mistake again.
Cash out with first direct (perfect exchange rate) £326.92.
In the end they only took $405 of my $420 because anything that looked unlike it had just been pressed and steamed by the bank was rejected... No fx rates were displayed on my way in which should have alerted me. My $405 got me £293....
£33 quid loss... Crazy0 -
That's merica for ya. They love a tip. My mate just got back from new york and said everyone of them pretty much demanded a tip. The restaurant he went too gave him his bill of $110 and the waitress wrote $20 in the tip box of the receipt.Huskaris said:
Absolutely crazy. Was in Vegas a couple weeks back and the fact that tips on card machines in the back of a taxi came with a $3 charge and then when the prompt for a tip came up the minimum was 20%.... Absolute fucking joke.SporadicAddick said:Travel to the US regularly and never use cash. They kindly offer you the option of 15, 20 or 25 per cent tip option on all card transactions.2 -
And Monzo is the most reliable of the fintech banksAlgarveaddick said:
A few places here don't take that card, which is why I am a bit dubious.shine166 said:
Revolut are also goodAlgarveaddick said:
Thank you for the heads up.cafcpolo said:
Take a look at Starling if you can be bothered. Fairly certain you can open an account with them without being a UK tax payer. Free to use the card abroad.Algarveaddick said:Thinking about visiting New York next year, so I looked up what the situation is regarding cash, thinking if we had to pay with a card everywhere accumulative charges might be massive. Turns out it's illegal to be card only in the Big Apple - good for them. Card companies apparently earn $130 billion(!) a year in charges.
https://www.cashmatters.org/blog/why-new-york-is-defending-cash
Took one to Florida last year and was a big help for when not using cash.2 -
Did my first cashless trip to the US in October. Feel like the change has been a fast one.SporadicAddick said:Travel to the US regularly and never use cash. They kindly offer you the option of 15, 20 or 25 per cent tip option on all card transactions.Incidentally, my Uber driver fell asleep at the wheel and went across two lanes on the freeway. I decided to not tip as a result, so he gave me a rating that caned my average. Prick. Should’ve just complained to Uber.4
